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Author Topic: 3-Dimensional Transformer  (Read 10720 times)

Offline d3x0r

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3-Dimensional Transformer
« on: August 02, 2015, 02:33:00 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDRchA2g6a4


Tinman does some interesting things?

Offline tinman

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Re: 3-Dimensional Transformer
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2015, 03:28:18 PM »
Lol-that was fast

OK,i left the first two parts out of the video-long and boring.
The core i made from cast iron powder,and set with two pack epoxy.
The primary and secondary are wound together(1:1) at 1 layer each dimension.

I carried out some further experiments,but will leave them for another day-as it is late here.
But the results i am getting are like no other transformer i have tested so far.

Further updates to come.

Offline Jimboot

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Re: 3-Dimensional Transformer
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2015, 03:53:50 PM »
Lol-that was fast

OK,i left the first two parts out of the video-long and boring.
The core i made from cast iron powder,and set with two pack epoxy.
The primary and secondary are wound together(1:1) at 1 layer each dimension.

I carried out some further experiments,but will leave them for another day-as it is late here.
But the results i am getting are like no other transformer i have tested so far.

Further updates to come.




Thanks for the details mate interesting stuff.

Offline d3x0r

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Re: 3-Dimensional Transformer
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2015, 05:18:07 PM »
Lol-that was fast

OK,i left the first two parts out of the video-long and boring.
The core i made from cast iron powder,and set with two pack epoxy.
The primary and secondary are wound together(1:1) at 1 layer each dimension.

I carried out some further experiments,but will leave them for another day-as it is late here.
But the results i am getting are like no other transformer i have tested so far.

Further updates to come.
ok so it's more like bifilar and on a core.
Made one while I waited around 1.5x1.5x1.5 inch wood block... with telephone patch cable (blue/white bifilar)
played with using center as a winding and outside as other windings... it somehow managed to translate a signal to those  even though they aren't parallel in any way...
once I saw your response reconnected all blues and all whites...
do get a good signal transfer... I have a newer signal generator, not really sure about it's input character (how much power it can generate) yet... but do get a good resonance right around 1.0Mhz without a capacitor... can add a few nanofarads and lower the frequency of resonance but then I get lower output, and of course that's much higher input power since it's on longer.  It doesn't have a pulse setting and is kind of tricky to get bias to 0 (course analog resistor settings)  and changing the amplitude changes the biasing too...


It IS interesting; need to swap it for a toroid coil.... but the few I tried had too high of resonance; and those really didn't like having capacitance....

Offline ALVARO_CS

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Re: 3-Dimensional Transformer
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2015, 07:02:12 PM »
hello d3x0r et all,
I just posted this comment in Tinman`s YT channel:

ideas are like bubbles floating in the aether, this one just lightly grazed me in 2011, but never developed it !! http://overunity.com/6123/joule-thief/msg305125/#msg305125

I still do not have a scope so I cannot go further blindly !! . . . but very happy of Tinman catching the same bubble !! :D

cheers
Alvaro

Offline MileHigh

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Re: 3-Dimensional Transformer
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2015, 05:38:09 AM »
I hate to be a party pooper but this is not an "experiment," it's just a series of observations.  If it was a true experiment you would analyze your data and explain the scope waveforms and explain why the LED lights up both ways.  Perhaps there will be some measurements in a future clip, I don't know.  However, one more time, measurements without analysis and explaining what's going on is just making more observations.

I am disappointed with the funky "three-dimensional transformer."  It's meaningless and if you want to be harsh it's just more electronics quackery.  What it also means is that you have an excessive over-usage of materials to accomplish the simple task of lighting an LED.  You have a transformer design with a nonsensical arrangement of coils, and you could probably light the LED more efficiently with a conventional transformer design that uses 1/100th the amount of material.

I don't see anything redeeming in this "experiment" at all.  You are just playing with a weird home-made transformer when you could wind a normal home-made transformer that will easily outperform what you are seeing in this clip.

This clip is ultimately counter-productive if it encourages beginners to start winding "3D transformers" and playing with them and thinking that they are exploring something new and special.  What you really want to do is understand how a regular vanilla transformer actually works.  Once you have the complete mastery of how an ordinary transformer works then you will look at this "3D transformer" as an exercise in quackery and futility.

On the other hand, I also understand that people want to keep their hands busy and just want to build things and play with them and have fun.

Offline ALVARO_CS

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Re: 3-Dimensional Transformer
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2015, 08:10:59 PM »
I see the attention on this subject has declined, only a few comments in the OUR forum.
As I never was invited, I cannot post there , so will do it here.

as far I have seen, the way of winding in Tinman and Slayer way is quite different of what I did.

in my cubicoil, there is only a pair of wires, winded  in parallel in the three directions. Interlaced like a sailor knot.
I speculated with what kind of magnetic reaction would it have with a fluid ferromagnetic core.

Offline MarkE

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Re: 3-Dimensional Transformer
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2015, 11:05:15 PM »
It looks like a difficult to wind transformer that will have lots of leakage inductance.

Offline poynt99

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Re: 3-Dimensional Transformer
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2015, 03:09:33 AM »
When we see an inductive kickback spike, it is often followed by a damped oscillation (this is normal). In your video, what you are calling a positive spike, is actually the first half wave of the ensuing damped oscillation. The difference here however is the slightly distorted first half wave. Why it is being distorted is unknown, as I don't know how the circuit is configured.

Offline Vortex1

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Re: 3-Dimensional Transformer
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2015, 12:29:35 PM »
When we see an inductive kickback spike, it is often followed by a damped oscillation (this is normal). In your video, what you are calling a positive spike, is actually the first half wave of the ensuing damped oscillation. The difference here however is the slightly distorted first half wave. Why it is being distorted is unknown, as I don't know how the circuit is configured.

A couple of offhand guesses for the distortion would be Miller effect soft clamping by the drive transistor, (dV/dt) or a soft clamping by Vce being exceeded. As you say Poynt, without knowing the full circuit and drive setup it's hard to say. The transistor type would be a good starting point to look at. Then maybe try to drive an equivalent coupled inductor (with equivalent leakage inductance) and see if you still get the same distortion on the first positive ring. That would throw the distortion back onto the drive circuit. The rest is quite normal for a coupled  inductor with high leakage inductance that  unloads at some point in the switching cycle.

Regards, Vortex1

Offline poynt99

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Re: 3-Dimensional Transformer
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2015, 02:22:51 PM »
Agreed Vortex1.

Offline d3x0r

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Re: 3-Dimensional Transformer
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2015, 03:34:24 PM »
Well the high voltage spikes would be attributed to high change of magnetic field... so it sheds it's field very quickly.

Offline tinman

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Re: 3-Dimensional Transformer
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2015, 03:50:01 PM »
A couple of offhand guesses for the distortion would be Miller effect soft clamping by the drive transistor, (dV/dt) or a soft clamping by Vce being exceeded. As you say Poynt, without knowing the full circuit and drive setup it's hard to say. The transistor type would be a good starting point to look at. Then maybe try to drive an equivalent coupled inductor (with equivalent leakage inductance) and see if you still get the same distortion on the first positive ring. That would throw the distortion back onto the drive circuit. The rest is quite normal for a coupled  inductor with high leakage inductance that  unloads at some point in the switching cycle.

Regards, Vortex1

It was just something i threw together,and do not know if it has anything over a standard wound transformer. The transistor is a tip3055,and it is being triggered with my SG-thats it,nothing more to it. It may be the core material i am using that is causing the distortion  -which is cast iron filings. These i get from the brake lathe at work when we machine brake disc's and drums.

I have not done any more testing,as i have been busy with something else.
Probably nothing to it-more just a spur of the moment experiment-->that i see ALVARO did some time ago anyway.

Offline ALVARO_CS

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Re: 3-Dimensional Transformer
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2015, 12:30:20 PM »
enjoy ;)