Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

A-Ads

MN LiveCoach

Masternodes Live Coaching

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics


  • *Total Posts: 512822
  • *Total Topics: 15261
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 4
  • *Guests: 17
  • *Total: 21

Author Topic: 'Impossible' rocket drive works and could get to Moon in four hours  (Read 48846 times)

Offline gravityblock

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3260
    • Get Dish Now! Free Dish Network System from VMC Satellite
Re: 'Impossible' rocket drive works and could get to Moon in four hours
« Reply #195 on: August 11, 2015, 05:53:51 PM »
@Mark E

I would have to agree, criticizing the person rather than the concept has always been a losing proposition. I'm a little busy right now but in a bit I will post my solution to the float in tube problem and see where it takes us.

AC

You agree it isn't appropriate to criticize the person, even if the person is intentionally taking things out of context, misdirecting, misrepresenting, etc?  I respect his concepts, but not the intentional misbehavior.

What has this world come to, lol.

Gravock

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline gravityblock

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3260
    • Get Dish Now! Free Dish Network System from VMC Satellite
Re: 'Impossible' rocket drive works and could get to Moon in four hours
« Reply #196 on: August 11, 2015, 06:00:41 PM »
Also,

MarkE has been attacking the person of MM by calling him a crackpot, and then attacking me personally cause I subscribe to some of his concepts and calling me a crackpot as well.  He has also personally attacked me by calling me a crackpot for the concepts I have promoted here by RD.  The ad hominem attacks have come from MarkE first.  The ad hominem attacks by me was in response to his intentional misbehavior and personal attacks. Unbelievable how he has turned his wrong doings around into a way were he gets the support of others while turning them against me.  Is it that easy to bamboozle and hoodwink the audience, lol.

Gravock

Offline gravityblock

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3260
    • Get Dish Now! Free Dish Network System from VMC Satellite
Re: 'Impossible' rocket drive works and could get to Moon in four hours
« Reply #197 on: August 11, 2015, 06:41:10 PM »
Concerning the float in a tube problem.

As I said prior at the top of the fixed tube the float displaces a volume of water which must be replaced and there is no getting around this fact. If the water displaced was not replaced then the height of the water column would get smaller and smaller and the process would stop. It requires work to lift the water to be replaced which is equivalent to the work performed by the float when rising in the tube.

My solution seemed obvious in that the weight of the water column is the real issue and if at some point it had no apparent weight then the system properties have changed in our favor. So how do we do it?, I would coat the inside and outside of the tube with a water repellent so the water column acts more like a friction-less rigid body in the tube then cradle the tube so it may move up and down freely on friction-less magnetic springs. If the tube can oscillate up and down with the bottom of the tube always remaining in the water then at the top of the upward stroke the whole of the water column becomes weightless due to it's own inertia. It should be obvious this oscillator is a conservative system... nothing lost nothing gained.

Now if at the top of the tube stroke when the water column is weightless but moving upward we removed the float then the water column may advance upward to replace the volume of the float due to it's own inertia. The water which moved upward let's say 3" to replace the float must also fall the same 3" later on with the whole tube thus mass of the water and tube as a whole is conserved minus the float.

The process would be as follows:
1)  Float in stationary tube rises to the top of the tube performing work.
2)  Energy from an external source is added to set the whole tube/water column in oscillation upward/downward with the bottom of the tube always remaining in the water.
3)  At the top of the stroke when the water is weightless but still acting upwards due to it's own inertia we open a valve and remove the float.
4)  The water column advances up 3" in the tube to fill the float space and a valve is closed then the whole tube and water column falls the same 3" conserving mass and energy with respect to the tube and water column as a whole. ie..the system does not know the float is missing with respect to the mass nor height of the water except for the mass of the float which is small in comparison.
5)  The energy to set the tube in oscillation from an external source is removed and stored and the tube and water column come to rest. The cycle repeats.

As we can see energy is conserved with respect to the whole oscillating tube/water column minus the float mass, it is also conserved with respect to the height of the water column in that the water rises 3" due to it's own inertia when the float is removed then falls the same 3" with the whole tube later on. The thing to keep in mind is that the mass/energy of the oscillating tube is the same regardless of where the float is in the tube. It does not care if the float is at the top or bottom or if it performed work or not. The oscillating tube is simply a more efficient means to remove the float, nothing more. Thus it would seem to me multiple conservative systems may be used to change the properties of the system which may change the rules... or not...we will see.

AC

I agree motion can be achieved and sustained without a loss of energy within a system.  I also agree oscillations in some form would be helpful in achieving this.  It's just an engineering issue to find a way to dynamically change the properties of the system, as you have said.  We need to learn how to correctly use the restoring force which sustains a body's motion to our advantage.

Gravock

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 'Impossible' rocket drive works and could get to Moon in four hours
« Reply #197 on: August 11, 2015, 06:41:10 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline allcanadian

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1317
Re: 'Impossible' rocket drive works and could get to Moon in four hours
« Reply #198 on: August 11, 2015, 07:22:08 PM »
@Gravityblock
Quote
You agree it isn't appropriate to criticize the person, even if the person is intentionally taking things out of context, misdirecting, misrepresenting, etc?  I respect his concepts, but not the intentional misbehavior.[/size]What has this world come to, lol.




I think personal criticism takes away from the debate of concepts which I believe is our purpose here. I like to take a little poke every now and then as much as the next person however an endless series of personal critiques as we see in this thread is not the way to make our point. It does not matter what others say, it matters that we can justify our thoughts and idea's with common sense and real world examples that work.


That being said can you find any problems or issues with what I have proposed?. I'm not looking for any kind of agreement here and would I expect everyone to be very critical of everything I proposed. I expect them to break it down piece by piece in a logical and reasonable manner to find any errors in judgement I may have made and that my friend is what science and progress is all about.


Small minds talk about people and great minds talk about concepts... so let's talk about concepts.
Let's end this pointless he said she said nonsense and get on with it.


Can anyone here find fault with what I have proposed?




AC

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline gravityblock

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3260
    • Get Dish Now! Free Dish Network System from VMC Satellite
Re: 'Impossible' rocket drive works and could get to Moon in four hours
« Reply #199 on: August 11, 2015, 10:14:27 PM »
Here's another possible solution:

Let's reverse the process by making the water buoyant instead of the screw.  We'll replace the screw with a metal golf ball or sphere with no float.  We'll add salt to the water to make the water buoyant.  We'll add enough salt to the water to the point where a little more than half of the sphere is floating above the water.  Next we'll add a liquid, such as liquid detergent on top of the sphere.  The detergent will float at the top of the tube and draw the sphere more out of the salt water.  The sphere floating mostly in the detergent makes the closed tube top heavy.  The tube being on a pivot point will then begin to rotate.  As the top heavy tube is rotating, the sphere and detergent will float back to the top of the tube and reach it's starting point.  The process should repeat and sustain itself.  Why wouldn't this work?

Gravock     

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 'Impossible' rocket drive works and could get to Moon in four hours
« Reply #199 on: August 11, 2015, 10:14:27 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline allcanadian

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1317
Re: 'Impossible' rocket drive works and could get to Moon in four hours
« Reply #200 on: August 11, 2015, 11:03:54 PM »
@gravityblock
Quote
Why wouldn't this work?


I had thought of that as well however in order to make it rotate with "less work" the point of rotation must be at the center of mass. We have already established the bottom portion is more dense to make the ball float so either we lower the point of rotation to rotate freely which leads to more work the next cycle or we require work to rotate which ends up being equal to the work performed by the float. I have been all through this scenario and I couldn't make the numbers work however if you can then you must know something I don't.


My thinking is that if the solution is obvious then we can be sure someone else must have thought of it at some point and since we do not have a working device this would imply the solution is not obvious but elusive and abstract. It must be something unique and my solution to this problem was based on the device below which I have built and tested and found to be very interesting.
www.rexresearch.com/bellocq/bellocq.htm


AC

Offline gravityblock

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3260
    • Get Dish Now! Free Dish Network System from VMC Satellite
Re: 'Impossible' rocket drive works and could get to Moon in four hours
« Reply #201 on: August 12, 2015, 12:27:04 AM »
@gravityblock

I had thought of that as well however in order to make it rotate with "less work" the point of rotation must be at the center of mass. We have already established the bottom portion is more dense to make the ball float so either we lower the point of rotation to rotate freely which leads to more work the next cycle or we require work to rotate which ends up being equal to the work performed by the float. I have been all through this scenario and I couldn't make the numbers work however if you can then you must know something I don't.



AC

Here's a video to make sure we're on the same page.  We can put a solid sphere inside a larger hollow sphere and fill the hollow sphere with liquid detergent so both the sphere and detergent will float back to the top in unison.   The center of mass for the tube should be near the point of rotation (center of the tube) as the sphere is making it's way back to the top between the 3 o'clock position (assuming a CW rotation) and the 6 o'clock position (I hope I got that right).  The idea is to have the rising sphere reach the top of the tube at the same time the bottom of the tube reaches the 6 o'clock position.  The timing will be critical.  This means the mass of the sphere, density of the liquids, the diameter and length of the tube, etc. must be in the correct proportions relative to each other in order for the timing to be correct.  If properly done, the sphere should trace out an elliptical orbit while undergoing both perihelion and aphelion similar to planets.  The tube will be completely enclosed.

Gravock   

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 'Impossible' rocket drive works and could get to Moon in four hours
« Reply #201 on: August 12, 2015, 12:27:04 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline allcanadian

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1317
Re: 'Impossible' rocket drive works and could get to Moon in four hours
« Reply #202 on: August 12, 2015, 01:06:20 AM »
@Gravityblock
That is a very interesting video however we can make some simple observations here, the salt water is most dense which is why it is at the bottom, the detergent slightly less dense so it is above the salt water. As well the density of the ball is in between both the salt water and the detergent which is why it has settled between the boundary of the two fluids.


At which point a question comes to mind... if the most dense ie.. heaviest substances are at the bottom then when we rotate the column aren't we trying to move/rotate the heaviest substance to the top and the lightest to the bottom?. It may a fluid however it seems to me that the salt water at the bottom would always be heavier than the top which is why it is at the bottom and would require work to lift/rotate it.




AC

Offline gravityblock

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3260
    • Get Dish Now! Free Dish Network System from VMC Satellite
Re: 'Impossible' rocket drive works and could get to Moon in four hours
« Reply #203 on: August 12, 2015, 01:28:03 AM »
@Gravityblock
That is very interesting video however we can make some simple observations here, the salt water is most dense which is why it is at the bottom, the detergent slightly less dense so it is above the salt water and the density of the ball is in between both the salt water and the detergent.

At which point a question comes to mind... if the most dense ie.. heaviest substances are at the bottom then when we rotate the column aren't we trying to move/rotate the heaviest substance to the top and the lightest to the bottom?. It may a fluid however it seems to me that the bottom would always be heavier than the top which is why it is at the bottom and would require work to lift/rotate it.

AC

Let's say we have a tube filled with 6ft. of salt water.  We'll place the pivot point for the tube at 3ft.  Now, adding the sphere and liquid detergent to the tube will make it top heavy.  Yes, the center of mass isn't at the center of rotation at this time (if it was, then it wouldn't be top heavy).  By being top heavy, the tube will begin to rotate.  Once the tube reaches the 3 o'clock position, then the sphere will start rising to the top.  The center of mass will then move towards the center of rotation as the sphere is rising and as the tube rotates towards the 6 o'clock position.

The idea is to have the rising sphere reach the top of the tube at the same time the bottom of the tube reaches the 6 o'clock position so the process can repeat and sustain itself.  The timing will be critical.  This means the mass of the sphere, density of the liquids, the diameter and length of the tube, etc. must be in the correct proportions relative to each other in order for the timing to be correct.  If properly done, the sphere should trace out an elliptical path while undergoing both perihelion and aphelion, similar to what occurs with planets.  I'm just trying to copy nature.

Gravock

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 'Impossible' rocket drive works and could get to Moon in four hours
« Reply #203 on: August 12, 2015, 01:28:03 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline MarkE

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6830
Re: 'Impossible' rocket drive works and could get to Moon in four hours
« Reply #204 on: August 12, 2015, 02:41:07 AM »
@Gravityblock



I think personal criticism takes away from the debate of concepts which I believe is our purpose here. I like to take a little poke every now and then as much as the next person however an endless series of personal critiques as we see in this thread is not the way to make our point. It does not matter what others say, it matters that we can justify our thoughts and idea's with common sense and real world examples that work.


That being said can you find any problems or issues with what I have proposed?. I'm not looking for any kind of agreement here and would I expect everyone to be very critical of everything I proposed. I expect them to break it down piece by piece in a logical and reasonable manner to find any errors in judgement I may have made and that my friend is what science and progress is all about.


Small minds talk about people and great minds talk about concepts... so let's talk about concepts.
Let's end this pointless he said she said nonsense and get on with it.


Can anyone here find fault with what I have proposed?




AC
The GPE is the energy store.  The demonstrated machine moves water up and down and if there were no losses, would still exhibit no gains.  As I understand it, you want to make the tube extra slippery so that you can move the tube independently of the water.  You are still just moving a mass up and down and cannot realize any energy gain cycle to cycle.  If the tube is closed at the top then slippery or not you will be lifting and dropping water mass in addition to the mass of the tube and it is back to square one.

Offline guest1289

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 326
    • The download link for the document containing my 'Inventions and Designs'
Re: 'Impossible' rocket drive works and could get to Moon in four hours
« Reply #205 on: August 12, 2015, 02:45:21 AM »
I read a  post  here,   about someone wanting to achieve  an   'Elliptical Orbit'  replication,  like the planets do (  I don't know if electrons also do  )

You could do that  easily with  my invention   http://overunity.com/15966/my-levitating-object-invention/msg458891/#msg458891

(  On the above page  search for   3_V magneticTrack.jpg   )

(  But,   a  'much-purer'  replication could be done with my original   'magnetic-toy-car'   on  a  'flat-magnetic-surface',   then remove the  car-body  ,   and just have a  'Levitating-Object'  floating  freely  on the   'magnetic-surface' ,    and  have  a   'central-magnet'    representing  the  SUN,    and see what results  you could get  .   
       This method would allow the  'Levitating-Object'  to find it's own  eliptical  path,   instead of using my   'Unpowered-Magnetic-Levitation-Track',   in my invention above )

AN  OVERUNITY ( PERPETUAL MOTION )  DEVICE  BASED ON AN ELLIPTICAL ORBIT,   WOULD BE INTERESTING,  remembering that it would only need to be slightly eliptical.

(  Another method could be the  'Magnet-Inside-A-Copper-Pipe'  principle,  but I don't know if that principle functions  horizontally  )

COULD SUCH A DEVICE BE VIABLE FOR PRODUCING ENERGY (  AND,  I WONDER IF AN ELECTRONS ORBIT IS ACTUALLY CIRCULAR,  OR  ELLIPTICAL   )

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 'Impossible' rocket drive works and could get to Moon in four hours
« Reply #205 on: August 12, 2015, 02:45:21 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline gravityblock

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3260
    • Get Dish Now! Free Dish Network System from VMC Satellite
Re: 'Impossible' rocket drive works and could get to Moon in four hours
« Reply #206 on: August 12, 2015, 04:55:27 AM »
@ AC,

After the tube rotates 180o and the sphere reaches the top of the tube, the center of mass will now be at the center of rotation.  The system is totally balanced at this point.  The next 180o of rotation will be free wheeling it.  After a full 360o rotation, the system will be top heavy again.  Most wheels almost make it one full rotation just by having a simple weight attached to it.  The problem is on the upwards stroke of the weight, it will slow the system down before it can reach a full rotation.  However, what I'm proposing is, during most of the upwards stroke the system won't slow down since the weight is evenly distributed during most of that half cycle.  There will be a small decrease in speed on the upwards stroke, but it should make it a full rotation in order to complete the next cycle.

Gravock

Offline gravityblock

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3260
    • Get Dish Now! Free Dish Network System from VMC Satellite
Re: 'Impossible' rocket drive works and could get to Moon in four hours
« Reply #207 on: August 12, 2015, 05:15:30 AM »
The GPE is the energy store.  The demonstrated machine moves water up and down and if there were no losses, would still exhibit no gains.  As I understand it, you want to make the tube extra slippery so that you can move the tube independently of the water.  You are still just moving a mass up and down and cannot realize any energy gain cycle to cycle.  If the tube is closed at the top then slippery or not you will be lifting and dropping water mass in addition to the mass of the tube and it is back to square one.

Let's put things back into perspective.  He never said there would be an energy gain.  He said it would be a conservative system with no losses and no gains.  There's a BIG difference in lifting a mass that has weight, and lifting the same mass that is weightless.  You're reply conveniently left out the fact that the mass the system will be lifting will be weightless on the upwards stroke.  I guess some things will never change.  So, the system will be lifting a water column that is weightless due to it's own inertia on the upwards stroke and it will move up and down freely on friction-less magnetic springs.  I must say, it's a really nice concept!

Gravock
« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 07:37:05 AM by gravityblock »

Offline allcanadian

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1317
Re: 'Impossible' rocket drive works and could get to Moon in four hours
« Reply #208 on: August 12, 2015, 07:35:43 AM »
We could think of it this way, I have a pendulum with the mass suspended on the left hand side (A) of center. I place a float on the mass then let go and the mass and float swing through center to the far right (B) and stops. If energy is conserved then how did the float travel through the distance from A to B?. Sure the height of the mass and float are nearly the same at A and B but that does not change the fact the float moved through a large distance from point A to point B while energy was being conserved. Why if I had a very long pendulum wire suspended from a fixed balloon in the upper atmosphere I could theoretically swing 100 miles and yet energy is for the most part conserved. I would rather swing 100 miles than walk it any day of the week. You see some very strange things can occur while energy is being conserved however it depends on one's perspective of what is actually happening and why it is happening.


The water/tube oscillation as explained is almost the same only in this case it does not act like a pendulum persay but more like a mass on a spring. As we all know when a mass on a spring reaches the peak of it's stroke upward it stops and becomes weightless for a moment. So I add energy to bounce my mass on a spring with a float on top of the mass and at the top of the stroke when the mass stops and becomes weightless for a moment I remove the float from the mass... no big deal. I then remove the energy I put into the system to make the mass bounce and energy is very nearly conserved.... again no big deal.


It is all dependent upon that one singular moment in time when a mass reaches the peak of it's upward motion then stops and becomes weightless. For a brief moment in time it acts like it's in outer space with little or no gravity rather than here on Earth. Think about that... no matter it's weight for a brief moment in time it is weightless.


AC

Offline MarkE

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6830
Re: 'Impossible' rocket drive works and could get to Moon in four hours
« Reply #209 on: August 12, 2015, 08:55:29 AM »
We could think of it this way, I have a pendulum with the mass suspended on the left hand side (A) of center. I place a float on the mass then let go and the mass and float swing through center to the far right (B) and stops. If energy is conserved then how did the float travel through the distance from A to B?. Sure the height of the mass and float are nearly the same at A and B but that does not change the fact the float moved through a large distance from point A to point B while energy was being conserved. Why if I had a very long pendulum wire suspended from a fixed balloon in the upper atmosphere I could theoretically swing 100 miles and yet energy is for the most part conserved. I would rather swing 100 miles than walk it any day of the week. You see some very strange things can occur while energy is being conserved however it depends on one's perspective of what is actually happening and why it is happening.
Energy does not change with position per se.  Kinetic energy at a constant speed is itself constant even though position constantly changes.  Kinetic energy can remain constant even though velocity direction is constantly changing, so long as the acceleration is always orthogonal to the instant direction of travel.
Quote


The water/tube oscillation as explained is almost the same only in this case it does not act like a pendulum persay but more like a mass on a spring. As we all know when a mass on a spring reaches the peak of it's stroke upward it stops and becomes weightless for a moment. So I add energy to bounce my mass on a spring with a float on top of the mass and at the top of the stroke when the mass stops and becomes weightless for a moment I remove the float from the mass... no big deal. I then remove the energy I put into the system to make the mass bounce and energy is very nearly conserved.... again no big deal.
And if you keep removing lifted mass, you keep removing PE from the system until eventually you have taken it all away.
Quote


It is all dependent upon that one singular moment in time when a mass reaches the peak of it's upward motion then stops and becomes weightless. For a brief moment in time it acts like it's in outer space with little or no gravity rather than here on Earth. Think about that... no matter it's weight for a brief moment in time it is weightless.
For an instant, the velocity is zero.  The acceleration is in fact at a maximum at that same instant.
Quote


AC

 

OneLink