Author Topic: Odd and unusual Laws and troubling times for FE research (Read 26915 times)

gravityblock · « **Reply #60 on:** July 27, 2015, 09:20:24 AM »

@Joel,

The second image below of rubicon will give you insight into the first.

Gravock

Jimboot · « **Reply #61 on:** July 27, 2015, 09:31:40 AM »

Quote from: allcanadian on July 27, 2015, 12:23:18 AM

Hey Tinman

That is a hoot, I wired the last three houses I built from start to finish and the only thing I allowed the supposed electricians to do was install the meter. I am also qualified to operate a 200+ MW power stations including boilers and/or gas turbines so if you ever need an Engineer to sign off on the validity or safety concerning your work just PM me. I don't normally do this but I like your attitude and it is not all that different from mine.

The fact is the same rules apply and it does not matter whether we are changing out a light switch or swapping out a 100 A service panel or bringing a 10 MW turbine on line...the same rules apply and if people don't have common sense then any way you look at it disaster is imminent. The key word here is common sense and more so forethought... before you do anything ask yourself how can this go wrong and prepare for it.

On a side note I have no issue doing hot work and have been doing it for decades because I always do the same things whether the circuit is hot or not, the exact same routine applies, which ensures I always have my bases covered. The worst thing anyone can do regarding electrical work is to make assumptions... assumptions get people killed not electricity.

AC

Would they recognise your (extensive) quals over here though? I've been thinking of ways to get past this sort of clamp on activity. I could certainly be told to take down all my slayer circuit videos and some of the pulse motors that were putting out 1KV. I'm wondering if you could get around it by making the viewer responsible through disclaimers or something similar.

allcanadian · « **Reply #62 on:** July 27, 2015, 05:07:16 PM »

@jimboot

Quote

Would they recognise your (extensive) quals over here though? I've been
thinking of ways to get past this sort of clamp on activity. I could certainly
be told to take down all my slayer circuit videos and some of the pulse motors
that were putting out 1KV. I'm wondering if you could get around it by making
the viewer responsible through disclaimers or something similar.

If this is true then they would be limiting your freedom of speech concerning legitimate scientific inquires. To my knowledge they do not possess such authority and I would reject their claim outright until such time as they could show proof otherwise. They can yip and yap all they want but until they can show written proof applied in the correct context then they have no authority over anything. I always ask for written proof signed by the person making the claim at which point they generally crawl back into the hole they came from because few if any are stupid enough to be held personally accountable for their actions they know are questionable.

In fact they tried to pull similar BS in Canada however we are very independent here and the people involved were informed in no uncertain terms that if they try to pursue this matter they will be seeking new employment in the near future. I was surprised they had the balls to even suggest that somehow people were not qualified to do their own plumbing or electrical work or install a new window and such on their own property. In any case they got the message loud and clear and I have heard nothing of it since that time. It is not so much a conspiracy other than the fact the contractor companies have tried to pay off the politicians to force homeowners to hire the contractors rather than be able to do the work themselves. It has nothing to do with FE and it would force homeowners to hire contractors to do work at inflated prices.... it's all about money.

AC

ramset · « **Reply #63 on:** July 27, 2015, 05:25:26 PM »

Hmmm
You folks under the Queens influence seem to have some odd laws
No fussing with High voltage ? how do you fix your model A's ignition...?

I know that Folks who support Big Government would love for the USA to be put in similar Choke holds.And quite certain they will try
after all It would not be safe !!!!
I still haven't figured out how they allow us to buy volatile bomb making Gas and drive cars/3 ton projectiles...or even allow the misses to Cook on her gas stove

I could go on and on and on ...

MarkE · « **Reply #64 on:** July 27, 2015, 08:39:37 PM »

Quote from: ramset on July 27, 2015, 05:25:26 PM

Hmmm
You folks under the Queens influence seem to have some odd laws
No fussing with High voltage ? how do you fix your model A's ignition...?

I know that Folks who support Big Government would love for the USA to be put in similar Choke holds.And quite certain they will try
after all It would not be safe !!!!
I still haven't figured out how they allow us to buy volatile bomb making Gas and drive cars/3 ton projectiles

Haven't you been following the trend? In fifteen years or less it will likely require special certifications to do that.

Quote

...or even allow the misses to Cook on her gas stove

I could go on and on and on ...

TinselKoala · « **Reply #65 on:** July 28, 2015, 12:34:47 AM »

Quote

I'm wondering if you could get around it by making the viewer responsible through disclaimers or something similar.

Sure, that's why they haven't come after me yet. Isn't it?

Farmhand · « **Reply #66 on:** July 28, 2015, 01:29:02 AM »

Well I think as with most things a complaint is required first then the Authorities will apply any damn law they can to prevent the offender from persisting. As they should.
ie. If anyone had complained about me running my Tesla coil and disrupting their TV reception then the authorities might threaten me with some laws surrounding RF transmission or something and not even bother with the HV thing. That does not mean they would be right or able to stop me. It just means they have warned me that they will try to stop me using those laws.

Know your rights and stand up for them. If something might be a problem then find a way to make it not a problem.

eg. If a neighbor complained about my Tesla Transformer affecting TV reception or whatever then I simply should find a way to run the coil without it affecting the neighbors TV reception. Then if they cannot detect any RF that would cause a disturbance they have no problem to deal with.

Same with the safety laws. There is always a way around a problem.

Quite often the police will use any laws they can to prevent a person from doing something if there is no laws directly addressing the problem. Doesn't mean they always use the laws "legally", a lot of the time they just need to threaten people with something, the behavior stops and the problem is solved.

This is the way of the world. If a person is doing something that someone thinks is wrong and a complaint is made using some pretext then the complaint is usually acted on in some way to resolve the complaint.

One way to beat the voltage limitations ect. by law is to "Get Qualified". Oh and don't encourage everyone to do dangerous stuff, give warnings ect..
..

Here is an example not related to free energy.

Situation 1. I am revving my friends 265 Hemi in the back yard during the day, the neighbor complains, the police come and tell me I am disturbing the peace, I stop what I am doing and complain to everybody that the Government is against tuning cars and Hemi motors. It's a conspiracy.

Situation 2. I am revving my friends 265 Hemi in the back yard during the day, the neighbor complains, the police come and tell me I am disturbing the peace. I inform them that the car is road legal and I am running through a tuning procedure, the area is Zoned light Industrial and I am well within my rights, the policeman then goes to the neighbor and informs them I am not breaking any laws. They cannot stop me as yet.

.

gravityblock · « **Reply #67 on:** July 28, 2015, 01:51:57 AM »

Quote from: TinselKoala on July 28, 2015, 12:34:47 AM

Sure, that's why they haven't come after me yet. Isn't it?

ROFLMAO! A disclaimer in a video doesn't protect you against a law you have broken in said video!

If you have broken a law in one of your videos, then they haven't come after you yet for one of three reasons:

1.) You haven't drawn the attention of the authorities yet.
2.) The authorities are just as ignorant to that particular law as the person who is breaking that particular law.
3.) The authorities don't care about enforcing that particular law

Gravock

Farmhand · « **Reply #68 on:** July 28, 2015, 02:04:08 AM »

This document says that if the electrical pressure to be supplied is above 50 volts for AC or 120 volts for DC then Licensing is required to be legal. So if the supplied power is only 12 volts then there is no need to worry and no laws are breached, there should be no problem and no one can complain, regardless of the output voltage. Especially if the setup is powered by a battery. The text is fairly plain to read.
These are the rules I understand as being correct. And fair enough too.

Dept. of Commerce Western Australia.
http://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/energysafety/licensing-electrical-workers-and-electrical-contractors

Quote

What is electrical work?

Electrical work is defined in the Electricity (Licensing) Regulations 1991 and means work on electrical machines or instruments, on an electrical installation or on electrical appliances or equipment to which electricity is supplied or intended to be supplied, at a nominal pressure exceeding 50 volts alternating current or 120 volts direct current, whether or not the thing on which the work is being performed is part of, or is connected to or to be connected to, any distribution works or private generating plant and, where work is performed on any appliance, whether or not electricity is supplied or may be supplied thereto through an electric plug socket or socket outlet.

..

Things could get tricky at some point. eg. if I run an inverter from a battery then it's output is 240 volts AC and so I cannot perform work on things that receive the inverter output as input unless I am qualified. The way around that is to incorporate an inverter of my own construction into the device's design and hard wire it as a part of one big device.

Where there is a will there is a way.

..

G,B., Tinsel takes precautions to prevent complaints is my guess, even if he is Licensed and qualified that would be good practice.

..

It is perfectly legal to use 3 big batteries in series to provide 36 volts at 100 amperes to a homemade inverter that produces 20 000 volts output. That is how I read the "Laws".
What you do with the 20 000 volts pressure is up to you, some things will be illegal some things won't. If you electrocute someone else with the 20 000 volts pressure and the current it produces then that would be illegal and wrong. If you apply the 20 000 volts to a valid load then it should be legal. From what I've read anyway.

..

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gravityblock · « **Reply #69 on:** July 28, 2015, 02:20:54 AM »

Quote from: Farmhand on July 28, 2015, 02:04:08 AM

G,B., Tinsel takes precautions to prevent complaints is my guess, even if he is Licensed and qualified that would be good practice.

Yes, I agree a disclaimer is good practice in regards to avoiding civil lawsuits.

However, a disclaimer in a video will not protect you against a law that is broken in that video as Tinsel suggested.

Gravock

Farmhand · « **Reply #70 on:** July 28, 2015, 02:24:12 AM »

Maybe not, but the disclaimer may prevent complaints.
..

Farmhand · « **Reply #71 on:** July 28, 2015, 02:33:47 AM »

Quote from: tinman on July 26, 2015, 02:52:17 PM

You will be surprised at what we are doing that we shouldnt be doing Jim.We are suppose to have a licence if we go above 50 VAC,or 120 VDC-regardless of current. As silly as it sounds,a lot of the higher voltage JT's would exceed 50VAC-and tesla coils-forget it-your done.
So like i said,when the time come's,there are laws they can sting you with.

This is from the WA.gov.au website.
Quote: Electrical work is defined in the Electricity (Licensing) Regulations 1991 and means work on electrical machines or instruments, on an electrical installation or on electrical appliances or equipment to which electricity is supplied or intended to be supplied, at a nominal pressure exceeding 50 volts alternating current or 120 volts direct current, whether or not the thing on which the work is being performed is part of, or is connected to or to be connected to, any distribution works or private generating plant and, where work is performed on any appliance, whether or not electricity is supplied or may be supplied thereto through an electric plug socket or socket outlet.

Section 3.3 of the WAES
Where sources of electricity generation are installed in a consumer’s premises, the generator
electrical installation shall comply with relevant technical standards including:
• AS/NZS: 3010:2005 Electrical installations – generating sets;
• AS 4509.1:2009 Stand-alone power systems – safety and installation;
• AS 4777:2005 Grid connection of energy systems via inverters;
• AS/NZS 5033:2005 Installation of photo-voltaic (PV) arrays; and
• the Wiring Rules.
Further requirements of network operators may be found in their connection requirements.
In particular, where an installation has multiple alternative sources of supply (incorporating either
automatic and or manual switching), all associated circuits and equipment including isolating
switches shall have signage and labelling as required by the relevant standards. Further detailed
labelling requirements are provided in section 3.5 (below).
Installation or modification of on-site power generation is ‘notifiable work’ as defined in the Electricity
Licensing Regulations 1991 and, in particular, notices of work shall be submitted to the network
operator as required by Regulations 51 and 52.

http://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/energysafety/licensing-electrical-workers-and-electrical-contractors

http://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/sites/default/files/atoms/files/waer_2014_0.pdf

Tinman is clearly confused or lacking comprehension skills. A JT usually runs from 12 to 24 volts supplied voltage pressure and so breaks no laws regarding supply voltage limits for anyone to build and operate.

I have a resonant transformer that runs from 12 volts supply, it can develop over 50 volts on the primary (through resonance) and it can develop over 1600 volts AC peak to peak on one secondary or 3200 volts across both secondaries in series. There is nothing illegal about it and no laws are broken because the supply pressure is between 12 to 13 volts DC. It could be very lethal if I was to charge a largish capacitance with the HV output then allow the capacitance to discharge through my body. But the chances are if I can build such a thing I am unlikely to do that and if I do it is my own fault.

..

gravityblock · « **Reply #72 on:** July 28, 2015, 02:38:09 AM »

Quote from: Farmhand on July 28, 2015, 02:24:12 AM

Maybe not, but the disclaimer may prevent complaints.
..

IMO, I seriously doubt a disclaimer will prevent complaints.

They tried to put a disclaimer on synthetic marijuana being sold as incense in stores which said, "not for human consumption....". The disclaimer didn't prevent the complaints and the product was pulled off the shelf and those involved were arrested and charged.

Gravock

Farmhand · « **Reply #73 on:** July 28, 2015, 03:01:03 AM »

"Sources of electricity generation", means something that is generating electricity from some other form of energy/stored energy. A device that takes an electrical input and gives an electrical output is not a generator it is a converter or transformer.

Maybe if a device with an electrical input that outputs more electrical energy than is input to it could be a kind of generator but only if the extra output energy was not derived from an outside source of electricity (then it's an over C.O.P. = 1 converter).

No one has shown that as yet though. If Tinman's device was to output more electrical energy than is input to it from him then what is the source of the extra energy ? For if the latter is an electrical source the device is not a generator but an over C.O.P. =1 converter. That's free info.

..

Basically the rules say you cannot do "work" on an electrical generator installed at a "consumers premises", so I cannot mess with the wiring on a fuel powered generator head unless I am licensed. And those rules are for installations to consumers premises so it's "paid for" electrical work they are talking about there. I think. And possibly only for grid connected gear or connected to premises that are connected to the grid. It would pay to read the document fully. I haven't.

..

The way I see it it is ok to do wiring on a standalone wind powered electrical generator as well as the connecting circuitry and loads as long as the voltage does not exceed 50 volts AC or 120 volts DC at any point in the arrangement. A final output of 240 volts AC from an inverter or whatever to a legally certified device (not a grid tie inverter) would be ok.

In other words I can generate electricity at a pressure of less than 50 volts AC then convert it to 80 volts DC to supply an inverter to power a fan or lights ect. no problem. Or I could generate electricity at less than 50 volts AC/120 volts DC pressure with any device I want to make and use that output to power any other device I want as long as no input is over 50 volts for AC or 120 volts for DC.

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Jimboot · « **Reply #74 on:** July 28, 2015, 04:27:12 AM »

Quote from: gravityblock on July 28, 2015, 02:38:09 AM

IMO, I seriously doubt a disclaimer will prevent complaints.
.

Gravock

Yeah I complain about TKs vids did me no good *ducks

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Author Topic: Odd and unusual Laws and troubling times for FE research (Read 26915 times)

gravityblock

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allcanadian

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gravityblock

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