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Author Topic: Idea of "SMA SunMill"  (Read 11982 times)

Offline Khwartz

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Re: Idea of "SMA Mill"
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2015, 04:58:32 PM »
Call to help:

If anybody knows a good Shape-Memory Alloy, like Nitinol or else, with austenite start temperature at 90°C +/- 20°C (what ever value possible from 70 to 110°C), and martensite start temperature at 50°C +/- 10°C (what ever value possible from 40 to 60°C), with good ability to be trained to "two ways memory shape", please let me know, it would be far more efficient and simple, than these systems, to make "hairs" or "scales" (blades) for the "mill" or for any other system like "teeters" or else.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Idea of "SMA Mill"
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2015, 04:58:32 PM »

Offline Khwartz

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Re: Idea of "SMA SunMill"
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2015, 05:02:37 PM »
GEEE 20150815-1700 Our MSA Mill - Self-cooling by chemney convection

Offline SoManyWires

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Re: Idea of "SMA SunMill"
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2015, 11:42:21 PM »
GEEE 20150815-1700 Our MSA Mill - Self-cooling by chemney convection

facinating idea there.

what if to re orient the turbine to be placed above rather than below?
that would result in what you see on rooftops that works rather well at less cost.

if you can't re orient placement of the turbine,

trying to think of things for this, mercury reacts to temperature changes, though is not solid enough like other temperature reactive metals such as the ones you described.

solenoid possible?

a vortex controlled heat transfer built into the exhaust system, used to focus the direction of thermal energy more concentrated towards
a diaphragm that moves a connecting rod to a rotor/wire coil.
to power mechanical actuators that could adjust position of the fins that are moved?
sorry for stepping away from the memory metal solution to your challenge with these ideas, a memory metal would seem a easier solution.


heres another interesting possibility for researching that might help the development of your idea.

Que’s device, called a CNF-PZT Cantilever, consists of a “carbon nanotube film on a cantilever base of piezoelectric material.” When the carbon nanotube film absorbs thermal energy, such as heat and light from other devices, it forces the cantilever to bend. The cyclical bending then generates an electric current in the piezoelectric material.

According to a press release, “the device could generate enough power to adequately operate some low-power microsensors and integrated sensors. One of the most unique and innovative aspects of this energy harvesting system is its ability to “self-reciprocate” – the perpetual production of energy without needing to consume other external energy sources.”

Piezoelectric energy harvesting is not new and has already been incorporated into a variety of applications, such as dance floors that power lights and other kinetic energy devices. However, this breakthrough tech transform how we use our everyday devices.

+ Louisiana Tech University

http://inhabitat.com/piezoelectric-device-harvests-wasted-heat-energy-from-tech/

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Idea of "SMA SunMill"
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2015, 11:42:21 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline SoManyWires

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Re: Idea of "SMA SunMill"
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2015, 12:42:57 AM »
Hello Guys!

I was following the experiments and ideas of Attila Blade with his teeter and sun flower "self-running" on heat energy at very low temperature difference.

https://youtu.be/8BF0UinTAxw

https://youtu.be/4ukwkiUOEs8?list=PLukR_iBSyGXRJNo3KgZIQqJrs-cjWxQ8G

there is some impressive studies presented there.
i probably should have scrolled back and seen that youtube you posted above before earlier on before commenting.

all the best



Offline Khwartz

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Re: Idea of "Dilatation Unbalanced Mill"
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2015, 12:27:38 PM »
Hello Guys!

Having so much difficulties to find an appropriate SMA for my hopefully future "proof of concept video" of our "SMA Unbalanced Mill", I present former other ideas, the time I can have the correct materials to work with.

The idea of the "Dilatation Unbalanced Mill", is to use kind of "balloons" with appropriate gas inside which will push apart the masses to create the unbalance.

It is indeed very the same system than the "SMA Unbalanced Mill" but with the "balloons" (or any kind of expandable volume) as actuators.

Here is a raw schematic of en example of the idea:

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Idea of "Dilatation Unbalanced Mill"
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2015, 12:27:38 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Khwartz

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Re: Idea of "SMA SunMill"
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2015, 12:47:33 PM »
facinating idea there.
Nice to know you enjoyed it ^_^

Quote
what if to re orient the turbine to be placed above rather than below?
that would result in what you see on rooftops that works rather well at less cost.
Sorry, didn't get what you talk about, maybe my bad English; could you develop or provide a schematic? please.


Quote
if you can't re orient placement of the turbine,
Sorry, but that's not a turbine, while a turbine works with a flow of something. It may be used too of course and combined with the basic principle of the wheel/cylinder/"mill", but in fact, the basic principle is:

THE CONTINUOUS ROTATING UNBALANCED SIDES RESPECT TO THE VERTICAL AXIS.


Quote
trying to think of things for this, mercury reacts to temperature changes, though is not solid enough like other temperature reactive metals such as the ones you described.
Maybe but what we are looking for here is, ideally:

TWO WAYS SHAPE-MEMORY TRAINED MATERIAL (often metal, often alloy, often nitinol).

Quote
solenoid possible?
Have a look at my two videos about "Spring Skin SMA Mill" (something like that).


Quote
a vortex controlled heat transfer built into the exhaust system, used to focus the direction of thermal energy more concentrated towards
a diaphragm that moves a connecting rod to a rotor/wire coil.
to power mechanical actuators that could adjust position of the fins that are moved?
sorry for stepping away from the memory metal solution to your challenge with these ideas, a memory metal would seem a easier solution.
Sorry, looks I am too bad in English to clearly enough understand your proposal. Could you provide a schematic here too? please.


Quote
heres another interesting possibility for researching that might help the development of your idea.

Que’s device, called a CNF-PZT Cantilever, consists of a “carbon nanotube film on a cantilever base of piezoelectric material.” When the carbon nanotube film absorbs thermal energy, such as heat and light from other devices, it forces the cantilever to bend. The cyclical bending then generates an electric current in the piezoelectric material.
Very interesting, it could allow to combine here both principles: a differential temperature gravitational one and a differential temperature electrical one...


Quote
According to a press release, “the device could generate enough power to adequately operate some low-power microsensors and integrated sensors. One of the most unique and innovative aspects of this energy harvesting system is its ability to “self-reciprocate” – the perpetual production of energy without needing to consume other external energy sources.”
So Interesting indeed! thanks for sharing these data.


Quote
Piezoelectric energy harvesting is not new and has already been incorporated into a variety of applications, such as dance floors that power lights and other kinetic energy devices. However, this breakthrough tech transform how we use our everyday devices.

+ Louisiana Tech University

http://inhabitat.com/piezoelectric-device-harvests-wasted-heat-energy-from-tech/
I will study that!!! So Very Thanks, SoManyWires, for your Very Constructive input :) :) :) Nice to read you again! :)

Offline Khwartz

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Re: Idea of "SMA SunMill"
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2015, 12:50:46 PM »
Hello Guys!

I was following the experiments and ideas of Attila Blade with his teeter and sun flower "self-running" on heat energy at very low temperature difference.

https://youtu.be/8BF0UinTAxw

https://youtu.be/4ukwkiUOEs8?list=PLukR_iBSyGXRJNo3KgZIQqJrs-cjWxQ8G

there is some impressive studies presented there.
i probably should have scrolled back and seen that youtube you posted above before earlier on before commenting.

all the best

It's okay ;) and All The Best for you too! BTW, you brought me Truly Interesting Ideas  8)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Idea of "SMA SunMill"
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2015, 12:50:46 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Khwartz

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Re: Idea of "SMA SunMill"
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2015, 04:49:49 AM »
SMA Mill - Hairs - Recalled - Gravity : + 2.5 cm

Using gravity to recall the SMA (nitinol) "hair", at the cooling phase.

+ 2.5 cm of radius increase for initial 12 cm radius = +20 %.

Note: the mass of the screw is far heavier than the nitinol wire.

https://youtu.be/_WLo_3jNkJI

Offline SoManyWires

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Re: Idea of "SMA SunMill"
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2015, 05:34:51 AM »
Nice to know you enjoyed it ^_^
Sorry, didn't get what you talk about, maybe my bad English; could you develop or provide a schematic? please.

oops, i did not notice you sent a message directed towards me.

what i meant was if you were to flip the drawing of the 'J' shaped tube, upsidedown, it seemed to me that could be similar to some attic venting systems as seen on roofs of houses.
i see a upsidedown 'J' shape in your drawing.

those types of attic vents usually have a convex shaped cap on top of it to keep out weather from getting in, and they spin from the heat created in the houses attic, as heat tries to find exit points, as the heat reaches the convex shaped cap, the heated air hits some angled fins that redirect airflow to outside of the house, to help cool the attic down. such as the roofing vent i am describing here.

a replacement idea for the angled fins on the cap, would be to put a axle inside the exhaust chamber, that has propeller type/windmill blades attached to the axle.
those blades would be able to turn the axle, and that could become recycled as stored electrical power to use later, or right away.

if those blades were strong enough, they could even withstand a small blast impact, and could have several sets of blades positioned further up inside the exhaust (firing chamber for a water based hydrogen ignition reaction perhaps).

and also it could be possible to use one axle per blade set, if the axles were positioned horizontally inside the chamber rather than vertically.
though the  force hitting each blade set would decrease accordingly after the airflow passes the lower sets.
that might be able to recycle more of the force rather than just going with one set.



i am not sure what the application of your SunMill idea is for though, having a habit of missing a lot of sometimes key information myself.
you might not be wanting to use it connected to an attic heat source.
not knowing the application, what little insight i offered above might not be of any use to your project, though if of any use, great!

its not nitol based what i mentioned above, though it might be a solution or hopefully useful somehow.



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Idea of "SMA SunMill"
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2015, 05:34:51 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline Khwartz

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Re: Idea of "SMA SunMill"
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2015, 09:12:10 AM »
SMA Mill / Hairs / Recalled / Gravity / Mass×2: +4 cm & Faster

Using gravity to recall the SMA (nitinol) "hair", at the cooling phase.

● Mass is doubled compare to last video:

Power been proportional to the mass, we have: M2[kg] / M1[kg] = 2, thus +100 % of increase of power transfer.

● + 4 cm of radius increase for initial 5 cm radius = +80 % (to compare to +20% in the previous video):

Power been proportional to the radius, we have: 1.80 / 1.2 = 1.50, thus +50 % of increase of power transfer.

● The change of shape is 50 % faster:

Power been proportional to the frequency (1/T), we have +50 % of increase of power transfer.

● The increases of of power transfer multiplying each other we get: 2.0 × 1.5 × 1.5 = 4.5, thus 350 % more power transfer (4.5 times more powerful under the same thermal power input).


Note: the masses of the screws are far heavier than the nitinol wire.

https://youtu.be/pHeMdsqgoMw

Offline Khwartz

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Re: Idea of "SMA SunMill"
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2015, 09:16:43 AM »
SMA Mill / Hairs / Recalled / Gravity / Mass×4:+7 cm & Faster


Using gravity to recall the SMA (nitinol) "hair", at the cooling phase.

● Mass is near quadruple compare to 2 video before:

Power been proportional to the mass, we have: M3[kg] / M1[kg] = 4, thus +300 % of increase of power transfer.

● + 7 cm of radius increase for initial 1.5 cm radius: 7 [cm] / 1.5 [cm] = 4.6, thus + 360 % (to compare to +20% two videos before):

Power been proportional to the radius, we have: 4.6 / 1.2 = 3.8 , thus + 280 % of increase of power transfer.

● The change of shape is 2 times % faster:

Power been proportional to the frequency (1/T), we have +100 % of increase of power transfer.

● The increases of power transfer multiplying each other we get: 4.0 × 4.6 × 2 = 36, thus 3,500 % more power transfer (36 times more powerful under the same thermal power input).


■ Real mechanical power transferred (raw estimate):

Let's say screws are 10 g.

Power [W] = energy [J] / time

= (weight [N]. lift [m]) / time

= ((mass [kg] * gravitation [m.s^-2]). lift [m]) / t

= ((0.010 [kg] * 10 [m.s^-2]) * 0.10 [m]) / 10

= 0.001 [W]


■ Area of cylinder needed to obtain 1 kW:

○ nitinol wire diameter: 0.5 mm

○ area of the scare in which we inscribe the wire section at the "foot" of the "hair" (SMA wire): 0.5^2 = 0.25 mm2

○ number of hairs needed to obtain 1 kW:

• 1,000 W / 0.001 W/hair = 1,000,000 hairs.

○ 1,000,000 hairs × 0.25 mm2
= 250.000 mm2
= 25 m2.

Which would be still pretty much for an only 1 kW heat motor.


Note: the masses of the screws are 2 orders of magnitude heavier than the nitinol wire (in the range of an hundred times heavier, maybe 50 to 150 times more, should measure and calculate later).

https://youtu.be/EcI8OIyuoYc

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Idea of "SMA SunMill"
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2015, 09:16:43 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline Khwartz

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Re: Idea of "SMA SunMill"
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2015, 09:38:08 AM »
Hello SoManyWires! Thanks for your post and pictures, it helps me much to have them to understand what is written ^_^

I know these stuff.

Don't see for now how I could use it for my project but why not!

Oh, yes, it remembers me a configuration of solar dilatation mill, but the round shape looks to not be optimal in this kind of use, pure cylinder shape, and of course with axis horizontal, looks to me the best geometry.

The purpose of these "SMA mills" is just to make a heat motor to produce, hopefully, usable clean energy based, by use of the gravity while we unbalance continually the cylinder, by use of differential temperature to run the actuator (the parts which change of shape to move masses), by SMA to make the actuators working with the temperature differential.

Regards,
Didier.

Offline Khwartz

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Re: Idea of "SMA SunMill"
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2015, 01:23:14 AM »
SMA Mill / Hairs / Recalled / Gravity / Mass×4:+7 cm & Faster


Using gravity to recall the SMA (nitinol) "hair", at the cooling phase.

● Mass is near quadruple compare to 2 video before:

Power been proportional to the mass, we have: M3[kg] / M1[kg] = 4, thus +300 % of increase of power transfer.

● + 7 cm of radius increase for initial 1.5 cm radius: 7 [cm] / 1.5 [cm] = 4.6, thus + 360 % (to compare to +20% two videos before):

Power been proportional to the radius, we have: 4.6 / 1.2 = 3.8 , thus + 280 % of increase of power transfer.

● The change of shape is 2 times % faster:

Power been proportional to the frequency (1/T), we have +100 % of increase of power transfer.

● The increases of power transfer multiplying each other we get: 4.0 × 4.6 × 2 = 36, thus 3,500 % more power transfer (36 times more powerful under the same thermal power input).


■ Real mechanical power transferred (raw estimate):

Let's say screws are 10 g.

Power [W] = energy [J] / time

= (weight [N]. lift [m]) / time

= ((mass [kg] * gravitation [m.s^-2]). lift [m]) / t

= ((0.010 [kg] * 10 [m.s^-2]) * 0.10 [m]) / 10

= 0.001 [W]


■ Area of cylinder needed to obtain 1 kW:

○ nitinol wire diameter: 0.5 mm

○ area of the scare in which we inscribe the wire section at the "foot" of the "hair" (SMA wire): 0.5^2 = 0.25 mm2

○ number of hairs needed to obtain 1 kW:

• 1,000 W / 0.001 W/hair = 1,000,000 hairs.

○ 1,000,000 hairs × 0.25 mm2
= 250.000 mm2
= 25 m2.

Which would be still pretty much for an only 1 kW heat motor.


Note: the masses of the screws are 2 orders of magnitude heavier than the nitinol wire (in the range of an hundred times heavier, maybe 50 to 150 times more, should measure and calculate later).

https://youtu.be/EcI8OIyuoYc

You may be shocked by the number of hairs, and ask yourself what would be the projected cost of the hairs for 1kW ?

With these numbers, but with industrial price, only nitinol, would be something like:

Total length of wire: 1,000,000 hairs * 0.1 m = 100,000 m

Section of wire: (0.0005 m / 2)^2 * Pi = 2*10^-7 m²

Volume of wire: 100,000 m * 2*10^-7 m² = 0.02 m3

Mass of wire: 0.020 m3 * 6,500 kg/m3 = 130 Kg

Investment in wire: 130 Kg * 200 $/kg = 26 000 $

But 1 kW solar panel is 20 $ from the same kind of sourcing ("made in China"), thus we are 3 orders of magnitude of cost to high.


 
We need to divide by 1 thousand the estimate of cost.


With global and hard heating on the full length of wire (it was only progressive along the hair so it took much more time to heat it all along), we may be possibly able to achieve:


SMA Mill / Hairs / Recalled / Gravity / 10 g:+7 cm & 1 s


■ Real mechanical power transferred (raw estimate):

Let's say a lifting mass is 10 g.

Power [W] = energy [J] / time

= (weight [N]. lift [m]) / time

= ((mass [kg] * gravitation [m.s^-2]). lift [m]) / t

= ((0.010 [kg] * 10 [m.s^-2]) * 0.10 [m]) / 1  

= 0.01 [W]


■ Area of cylinder needed to obtain 1 kW:

○ nitinol wire diameter: 0.5 mm

○ area of the scare in which we inscribe the wire section at the "foot" of the "hair" (SMA wire): 0.5^2 = 0.25 mm2

○ number of hairs needed to obtain 1 kW:

• 1,000 W / 0.01 W/hair = 100,000 hairs.

○ 100,000 hairs × 0.25 mm2
= 25.000 mm2
= 2.5 m2.

But still 2 orders of magnitude to high...


To make it, we should have for example:

Power [W] = energy [J] / time  = 1 kW

= (weight [N] * lift [m]) / time = 1 kW

= ((mass [kg] * gravitation [m.s^-2]) * lift [m]) / t  = 1,000 W

= ((100 [kg] * 10 [m.s^-2]) * 1 [m]) / 1 = 1,000 W


How much mass of hairs we should need, if proportional to the mass lifted:

■ Mass of a hair?

○  Length of a hair: 0.1 m

○  Section of hair: (0.0005 m / 2)^2 * Pi = 2*10^-7 m²

○  Volume of a hair: 0.1 m * 2*10^-7 m² = 2*10^-8 m3

○  Mass of a hair: 2*10^-8 m3 * 6,500 kg/m3 = 1.3*10^-4 Kg

○ Mass lift by a 10 cm hair: 10 g

○  Number of hairs needed: 100 kg / 0.01 kg = 10,000 hairs

○  Total mass of hairs:  10,000 hairs * 1.3*10^-4 Kg = 1.3 Kg

○  Investment in wire: 1.3 Kg * 200 $/kg = 260 $


Maybe I have confused in my first calculations when I got 130 kg, between the total mass lifted and the total mass of hairs needed.

This later time I have taken in account the two different quantities but not the courage for now to check my previous calculations of total nitinol mass needed. If you want to check yourself and indicate the correction, don't hesitate, the publication of these calculations is made for.

 
We are still 1 order of magnitude too high in the best case, and with 20 $ for 1 kW solar panel China sourcing like for nitinol sourcing, looks to me it will be hard to be cheaper with this kind of system.

Didier

Offline Khwartz

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Re: Idea of "SMA SunMill"
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2015, 08:14:10 PM »
Hi All Of You (even if I don't know if anybody else than Peter - he will recognize himself ;) - follows this thread ^_^ )!

After many tries, many attempts, I didn't succeed to get a TWO WAYS MEMORY-SHAPE EFFECT sufficient for our use with the nitinol wires I have received few weeks ago, only few percents of self returning to martensite shape when cooled.

I have asked estimates to suppliers in US and China of 1 kg of all kind of diameters of nitinol wires and thickness of nitinol sheets, with the martensite and austenite temperatures we are looking for (not 10-50°C but 40-70°C at least) but none of them sent me back a price.

Other problem: 1 kW photovoltaic solar panel, while sourced in China for example, is only 20 € (if I have not mistaken, of course, by hundreds of meters-scare), while nitinol whith the very same sourcing is between 100 to 400 € a kilogram. By my raw calculations you should check their rightness by yourself, it would need kilograms to acheive this kW of power. Thus, it looks like

it is not economically relevant.


An other problem again: I think

that would be not an ecological apparatus

because of the very probable not clean industrial process to produce nitinol alloys (but should need to be checked if it's true).


Thus, that idea of SMA Unbalanced Mill,

unless we get SMA Alloys in the correct range of change temperatures shapes and ecological enough SMA alloys

looks to me a deadlock,

sorry, but thanks for your possible interest.

Regards,
Didier

 

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