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Author Topic: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic  (Read 148683 times)

picowatt

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #105 on: July 23, 2015, 03:58:41 PM »
You will find(or should) that if you reverse the polarity of the battery feeding the stator coil,the motor should spin backwards.You can achieve the same effect by using a PM embedded in the stator core.

Tinman,

If someone wanted to try embedding a PM in the stator, what would you suggest as the best method to do so?

PW

Vortex1

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #106 on: July 23, 2015, 04:09:00 PM »
Attached are pictures of my breadboard lashup. Thus far I have tried many combinations of wiring. I used Faston connectors which made switching polarity fairly easy. I tried the original circuit as well as my modified circuit. Nothing to report yet, only a dimly lit #1819 bulb with about 36 watts into the rotor. Data to come when I get to where I can see a significant reduction of input current as Brad did. Further testing later in the day. I intend to add some type of timing device to sync the scope so that one complete revolution equals one sweep of the scope. I might use Hall effect, optical disc or just a simple magnet and pickup coil. The optical approach would be the easiest to balance.

Yes I do have high quality Fluke DMM's and scopes not shown in the pictures. This was done a few weeks ago, I am further along in my understanding to date.

Regards, Vortex1
« Last Edit: July 24, 2015, 06:31:30 AM by gotoluc »

tinman

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #107 on: July 23, 2015, 04:43:46 PM »
Tinman,

If someone wanted to try embedding a PM in the stator, what would you suggest as the best method to do so?

PW
I use either thread lock mill bit's,or mill drill bits for the larger holes,as normal drill bits drill triangle shaped holes,and there not very good when drilling laminated cores.Dont drill all the way through,stop a couple of mm before you go through the core. Your magnet will then slide in neatly,and will retain it self. Do not glue in,as you may have it around the wrong way ;)

picowatt

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #108 on: July 23, 2015, 05:04:10 PM »
I use either thread lock mill bit's,or mill drill bits for the larger holes,as normal drill bits drill triangle shaped holes,and there not very good when drilling laminated cores.Dont drill all the way through,stop a couple of mm before you go through the core. Your magnet will then slide in neatly,and will retain it self. Do not glue in,as you may have it around the wrong way ;)

Tinman,

So, basically, you would suggest something along the lines of the images Grum posted? 

Would you suggest a fairly loose or tight fit of the PM within the bored hole (particularly with consideration of PM's flux path)?

Would you suggest using something on the backside of the PM to close the path to the frame?

As I stated in response to Grum's post, I would think that the bulk of the magnet's flux path would be more so "kept" within the material surrounding the bored hole. 

I see you also have those screw shank end mills...

PW     

gotoluc

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #109 on: July 23, 2015, 07:13:06 PM »
LUC
Those are very good points about cutting the laminations and the possibility for eddy current shorts. After the coarse cut, If you use a fine file or belt sander lightly along the length of the cut area to clean up the shorts and varnish the cut areas, you may be able to eliminate most of the shorts.
I agree trying it as is would be a good first step.

I wonder why you are using such a large motor for your initial tests, and your motor does not have the spiral rotor laminations. Any reason? Brad's motor was supposedly from an import buffer, and they can be had for less than $20 US. Also vacuum cleaners are along many trash pickup sites on the right days, but even those may be too large, not to say that the effect is not scalable.

Regards
Vortex1

Hi Vortex1,

thanks for posting your comments.  I agree with you in the finer finishing of the cut laminations. I do that also and mostly with parts I want to marry together. I place a fine sand paper on a flat surface and use a perfect 90 degree block to keep the end of what I'm sanding leveled.

As for the large motor. I don't think it matters it the motor rotor has spiral sections or strait. I chose this one because the small one I was experimenting with I accidentally dropped the rotor (just after I finished cleaning it) and the commutator hit another sharp metal piece and cut the copper wires and is unrepairable. Previously I had it working once I got the timing of the brushes right. So I decided to get something more robust. If I do get it working it can only be better as there is less resistance in the winding and mostly because it's a 120vac compared to the 220vac motors.

Nice build, did you adjust the brush timing?

Thanks for sharing

Luc

Vortex1

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #110 on: July 23, 2015, 09:16:54 PM »
Hi Vortex1,

thanks for posting your comments.  I agree with you in the finer finishing of the cut laminations. I do that also and mostly with parts I want to marry together. I place a fine sand paper on a flat surface and use a perfect 90 degree block to keep the end of what I'm sanding leveled.

As for the large motor. I don't think it matters it the motor rotor has spiral sections or strait. I chose this one because the small one I was experimenting with I accidentally dropped the rotor (just after I finished cleaning it) and the commutator hit another sharp metal piece and cut the copper wires and is unrepairable. Previously I had it working once I got the timing of the brushes right. So I decided to get something more robust. If I do get it working it can only be better as there is less resistance in the winding and mostly because it's a 120vac compared to the 220vac motors.

Nice build, did you adjust the brush timing?

Thanks for sharing

Luc

Thanks Luc

No I have not played with brush timing, but I have played extensively with the FET circuit and variations of it as well as magnet placement, without much improvement. My motor does not lend it self well to brush positional changes. I won't bevel the brushes either as there is no definitive statements that this is the way to proceed. The fact that it is hinted at means it is probably not the way to go, as the suppressors would not allow truth to leak out from Brad...right? especially if he is that tightly gagged. So whatever Brad says to do, maybe it would be better to do the opposite....

I will await further messages or information before proceeding with major changes to this particular motor. Meanwhile I have lots of universal motors on hand to play with so may start another build with a motor that is expendable in that I have a few of the same type for comparison.

Cheers and good luck with this cryptic puzzle guessing game.

Grumage

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #111 on: July 23, 2015, 09:23:48 PM »
Dear Brad and all.

No PM's yet but possible forward progress??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pdvvN8jcfA

Comments/observations most welcome.

Cheers Grum.

shylo

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #112 on: July 23, 2015, 11:50:44 PM »
Hi Grum, Are your field coils stock or did you rewind them?
You were powering the little light with the field windings correct?
If so was it just one or both coils?
I have the identical motor as yours I believe , but the output from the field coils is small.
I also have another motor where I replaced the field coil stator with a PM can ,with added collector brushes.
I can draw off the brushes but I can't combine them or feed them back to the supply.
As JimBoot stated you can power the motor with various  brush locations.
I am still working on shorting, the lenz effect needs to assist I think.
Thanks artv
« Last Edit: July 24, 2015, 06:24:17 AM by gotoluc »

shylo

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #113 on: July 23, 2015, 11:56:51 PM »
Sorry for the over size pic I hate that.
Not sure how to correct it, If somebody can please do.
artv

a.king21

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #114 on: July 24, 2015, 12:15:58 AM »
Sorry for the over size pic I hate that.
Not sure how to correct it, If somebody can please do.
artv
Load your pic into paint then you can alter the size and save as a jpeg. It's all menu driven and simple
« Last Edit: July 24, 2015, 02:34:05 PM by gotoluc »

tinman

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #115 on: July 24, 2015, 01:19:12 AM »
Tinman,

So, basically, you would suggest something along the lines of the images Grum posted? 

Would you suggest a fairly loose or tight fit of the PM within the bored hole (particularly with consideration of PM's flux path)?

Would you suggest using something on the backside of the PM to close the path to the frame?

As I stated in response to Grum's post, I would think that the bulk of the magnet's flux path would be more so "kept" within the material surrounding the bored hole. 

I see you also have those screw shank end mills...

PW   
If i was to do something like that,i would probably place the magnet inside a protective casing-like PVC pipe. Then a way to !monitor! that magnet and it's field to make sure everything is ok.

tinman

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #116 on: July 24, 2015, 01:31:10 AM »
An interesting video. Maybe helpful toward the SS version?.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsN2sr3U0PY

a.king21

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #117 on: July 24, 2015, 03:29:18 AM »
Dear Brad and all.

No PM's yet but possible forward progress??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pdvvN8jcfA

Comments/observations most welcome.

Cheers Grum.


The only one qualified to comment is Tinman.

Jimboot

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #118 on: July 24, 2015, 04:07:57 AM »
An interesting video. Maybe helpful toward the SS version?.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsN2sr3U0PY
Good observation for the tuning. Just one stator coil? Not shorting the other coil? Probes across the gen coil?
Thanks
Grum

tinman

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #119 on: July 24, 2015, 07:56:50 AM »
Good observation for the tuning. Just one stator coil? Not shorting the other coil? Probes across the gen coil?
Thanks
Grum
Oops
Wrong video. Dont know how that happened, but I will post the correct one tonight.