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Author Topic: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic  (Read 148655 times)

tinman

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #90 on: July 23, 2015, 07:44:05 AM »
Tinman,

I understand what you are saying here, and the similar statements made by you in the past.

However, this does not really answer my question.  I am curious to know whether your inability to answer or further discuss the RT is with regard to some form of suppression or more so to do with IP protection.

If it is not IP protection, surely you can state that...

PW
PW
To answer  both questions.

There is no need for any more testing-it has been 3 weeks since the test ;)

Second
Myself and Chet have already explained as to what happened. I dont think we have to go over this again. I am giving what I can so as I can keep my head above water here.
There is always a plan B--》this is plan B.

tinman

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #91 on: July 23, 2015, 07:59:12 AM »
Tinman,

Interesting response...

PW
Yes. No relate this video to the sketches on the first page, and you will see how the SS version is going to start. Ofcourse there is the circuit to go, but that is a simple build.

gotoluc

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #92 on: July 23, 2015, 08:02:27 AM »
Hi everyone,

been quite busy today and manage to get some stuff together.

Here's a quick video update: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6JZc-UmkBg

Luc

Jimboot

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #93 on: July 23, 2015, 09:46:09 AM »
Hi everyone,

been quite busy today and manage to get some stuff together.

Here's a quick video update: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6JZc-UmkBg

Luc
Love your builds Luc. Can't wait to see how it turns out. Be interesting with such large commutator segments

tinman

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #94 on: July 23, 2015, 12:21:03 PM »
Hi everyone,

been quite busy today and manage to get some stuff together.

Here's a quick video update: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6JZc-UmkBg

Luc

Nice builds Luc-i really like the SS build. I was thinking that the end keepers that you are going to wind the output coils on should be cut down so as the finish at the edges of the two blocks with the flux diversion coils on them-whats your thoughts on that?. I just think that the flux path needs to be as tight as possible. Im hoping you go the SS version first ;).

I have just started my SS build-dont get much time after work to do any thing,but going as quick as i can.

Brad

Jimboot

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #95 on: July 23, 2015, 12:52:51 PM »
well that was weird. found the motor would spin even if the brushes were on the same side only one segment apart. Also i was charging a battery via the diode method that brad showed. I decided to hook both coils in parallel. increased the voltage but when i put one coil direct to the battery, so full wave, the motor sped up significantly and required less voltage (not measuring current atm)

tinman

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #96 on: July 23, 2015, 01:46:27 PM »
well that was weird. found the motor would spin even if the brushes were on the same side only one segment apart. Also i was charging a battery via the diode method that brad showed. I decided to hook both coils in parallel. increased the voltage but when i put one coil direct to the battery, so full wave, the motor sped up significantly and required less voltage (not measuring current atm)

It is good to see some prepared to learn as they go,while others just expect everything handed to them on a silver plate. They dont care how it works,or how much time the inventor put into his device,as long as they get it,and can use it to there own advantage.
Now Jim-how is it that you can generate power to charge a battery,but instead of loading the prime mover up,it decreases the prime movers power consumption. Where is the lorentz force?.

Quote
I decided to hook both coils in parallel. increased the voltage but when i put one coil direct to the battery, so full wave, the motor sped up significantly and required less voltage

Im not sure what you mean here?.Was the battery feeding the coil,or the coil full wave rectified,and charging the battery?.
If the battery was feeding the coil,then you just created a magnetic field around your stator winding,and the rotor is now more attracted to that part of the stator core. You will find(or should) that if you reverse the polarity of the battery feeding the stator coil,the motor should spin backwards.You can achieve the same effect by using a PM embedded in the stator core.
If you have rectified the stator coil,and are charging the battery,then you are off to a good start.

penno64

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #97 on: July 23, 2015, 02:15:01 PM »
Hi Grum,

If you stop the video at exactly 1:02 you will see the tipping of the brush. About half of the original width.

The purpose or tipping ensures only connection to one commutator segment at a time. Much like your shaved
brush in your video.

Tilting is where Brad means adjusting the brush position.

Regards, Penno

Sorry Grum,

After further viewing and going back to your video, I wish to correct the above info.

I now feel that the slanting of the brush gives more surface area and hence maybe allows connection to more comm. segments - not less.

I could be wrong but time and experimenting will tell.

Brad,

The 2 diagrams from post #1,

If the lower switch is on then is not the dc flowing directly into the lamp on the left side of the diagram?

Regards, Penno

gotoluc

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #98 on: July 23, 2015, 02:21:52 PM »
Love your builds Luc. Can't wait to see how it turns out. Be interesting with such large commutator segments

Thanks Jim

Yes, rather wide commutator segments 8)   we'll see how she goes.


Nice builds Luc-i really like the SS build. I was thinking that the end keepers that you are going to wind the output coils on should be cut down so as the finish at the edges of the two blocks with the flux diversion coils on them-whats your thoughts on that?. I just think that the flux path needs to be as tight as possible. Im hoping you go the SS version first ;) .

I have just started my SS build-dont get much time after work to do any thing,but going as quick as i can.

Brad

Thanks Brad,

the reason I didn't cut down the keepers yet is, where ever we cut steel laminations there's a small build up of eddy currents at that location caused by some small shorts between laminations while cutting.  I don't know which would be worse, loosing a little flux or eddy currents, so I'll wait to cut them. Maybe adding an other magnet would be the better solution. I'll play with it fist.

An important note for everyone, if you cut transformer lanination make sure to add 1/4 inch steel plate exactly where you want the cut on each side and place it in a vice, or use vice grips or a C -clamp well tighten (on the side you want to keep) so not to cause inflation between the lamination layers while cutting. It also helps to guide the cut straight as you can rest your grinder cut off wheel on it. Also, another note is you must use as thin of a cut off blade as your grinder can use, which make the cut much cleaner and faster. No need for much pressure on the cut, let the wheel do the work. I would recommend to use a mask as there is silica in the metal which you don't want to breath. I've cut so much of the stuff and didn't think to wear a mask at first and you must wear goggles to protect your eyes.


I decided to hook both coils in parallel. increased the voltage but when i put one coil direct to the battery, so full wave, the motor sped up significantly and required less voltage (not measuring current atm)

Jim, if your input voltage drops, that is usually a sign you're using more current.

Luc

Jimboot

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #99 on: July 23, 2015, 02:23:59 PM »
Sorry Grum,

After further viewing and going back to your video, I wish to correct the above info.

I now feel that the slanting of the brush gives more surface area and hence maybe allows connection to more comm. segments - not less.

I could be wrong but time and experimenting will tell.

Brad,

The 2 diagrams from post #1,

If the lower switch is on then is not the dc flowing directly into the lamp on the left side of the diagram?

Regards, Penno


Pythagoras told me earlier *ducks

Jimboot

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #100 on: July 23, 2015, 02:29:40 PM »
Thanks Jim

Yes, rather wide commutator segments 8)   we'll see how she goes.
[size=78%] [/size]

Jim, if your input voltage drops, that is a sign you're using more current.

Luc


The run battery drew less voltage. That's all I was measuring. Anyway odds are I'm stuffing something up but it was interesting. I have no idea what I'm doing you understand?

Jimboot

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #101 on: July 23, 2015, 02:40:00 PM »
.
Now Jim-how is it that you can generate power to charge a battery,but instead of loading the prime mover up,it decreases the prime movers power consumption. Where is the lorentz force?.

Im not sure what you mean here?.Was the battery feeding the coil,or the coil full wave rectified,and charging the battery?.
If the battery was feeding the coil,then you just created a magnetic field around your stator winding,and the rotor is now more attracted to that part of the stator core. You will find(or should) that if you reverse the polarity of the battery feeding the stator coil,the motor should spin backwards.You can achieve the same effect by using a PM embedded in the stator core.
If you have rectified the stator coil,and are charging the battery,then you are off to a good start.


It is a curious effect. And it's got me hooked to get my brain cells around it. A nice little challenge to be sure. Btw I'm using a completely dead 20 yo alkaline 6v dolphin torch battery as my charge battery. I've been playing with pm as well. Hard to get to the core of this one though. Not sure how alan and grum are going with the same motor. Thanks for the tips. Esp the one about the <blink>PERMANENT MAGNET </blink>

gotoluc

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #102 on: July 23, 2015, 02:41:18 PM »

The run battery drew less voltage. That's all I was measuring. Anyway odds are I'm stuffing something up but it was interesting. I have no idea what I'm doing you understand?

As long as you're having fun and learning at the same time ;D

When you're using a battery to power something and you make a change and see the battery voltage go down, then it means your using more current. When you see the voltage go up, then you're using less current.

All the best mate

Luc

tinman

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #103 on: July 23, 2015, 03:55:02 PM »

The run battery drew less voltage. That's all I was measuring. Anyway odds are I'm stuffing something up but it was interesting. I have no idea what I'm doing you understand?

 ???

OK-im lost.

Vortex1

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #104 on: July 23, 2015, 03:56:36 PM »
Thanks Jim

Yes, rather wide commutator segments 8)   we'll see how she goes.


Thanks Brad,

the reason I didn't cut down the keepers yet is, where ever we cut steel laminations there's a small build up of eddy currents at that location caused by some small shorts between laminations while cutting.  I don't know which would be worse, loosing a little flux or eddy currents, so I'll wait to cut them. Maybe adding an other magnet would be the better solution. I'll play with it fist.

An important note for everyone, if you cut transformer lanination make sure to add 1/4 inch steel plate exactly where you want the cut on each side and place it in a vice, or use vice grips or a C -clamp well tighten (on the side you want to keep) so not to cause inflation between the lamination layers while cutting. It also helps to guide the cut straight as you can rest your grinder cut off wheel on it. Also, another note is you must use as thin of a cut off blade as your grinder can use, which make the cut much cleaner and faster. No need for much pressure on the cut, let the wheel do the work. I would recommend to use a mask as there is silica in the metal which you don't want to breath. I've cut so much of the stuff and didn't think to wear a mask at first and you must wear goggles to protect your eyes.


Jim, if your input voltage drops, that is usually a sign you're using more current.

Luc

LUC
Those are very good points about cutting the laminations and the possibility for eddy current shorts. After the coarse cut, If you use a fine file or belt sander lightly along the length of the cut area to clean up the shorts and varnish the cut areas, you may be able to eliminate most of the shorts.
I agree trying it as is would be a good first step.

I wonder why you are using such a large motor for your initial tests, and your motor does not have the spiral rotor laminations. Any reason? Brad's motor was supposedly from an import buffer, and they can be had for less than $20 US. Also vacuum cleaners are along many trash pickup sites on the right days, but even those may be too large, not to say that the effect is not scalable.

My initial build a few weeks back using a Hoover vac motor and the Brad FET circuit originally published does not work as shown, so there are indeed missing components / information / magnet placements etc. Only Brad knows.

Regards
Vortex1