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Author Topic: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic  (Read 106007 times)

Offline kEhYo77

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #60 on: July 22, 2015, 04:46:35 PM »
Hi synchro1.
Yes, my 'GAP Power' motor is half-baked :)  The driving coils are bifilar so I could do push-pull.

But recently I've been focused on solid-state MEG/figuera/partnered output coils thingy, will see how that goes soon.
2 blue wire coils N and S with magnets N/N S/S and 2 identical partnered output coils (mirror image).

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #60 on: July 22, 2015, 04:46:35 PM »

Offline poynt99

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #61 on: July 22, 2015, 04:59:21 PM »
Sorry i didnt make that very clear-my mistake.
2 rotor segments at each brush-50% of the time there is 3 segments per brush in contact with each brush-so 4 segments at 100% and 6@ 50% time on all up.
I thought you were filing the brushes to a point so that only one rotor segment one each side would be connected at a time.

Offline allcanadian

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #62 on: July 22, 2015, 06:00:06 PM »
@Poynt99
Quote
As opposed to 4 rotor segments?


Yes, when any two commutator segments are in contact with one brush then one rotor coil is effectively shorted through the brush to prevent arcing. If the brush is tipped or narrowed then the time at this point is drastically reduced hence the transient effects noted in the scope shots.


However it gets even more interesting when the brush timing is altered and the stator coils disconnected. Realistically the universal motor becomes a switched reluctance motor whereby the rotor field it attracted to the stator core. To be more precise the rotor field is attracted to the area of the stator core with the most ferromagnetic material hence the term reluctance.


It should also be noted that since the stator coils are no longer in series with the rotor coils they are no longer bound to the same applied current. If the rotor current changes in some way then it's magnetic field changes as well and this field change translates to the stator coils not unlike a transformer. Now it gets a little tricky because in practice we have a transformer with one coil moving relative to the other thus we must consider the field change in the rotor as well as the change due to the fact the rotor field is moving.


I think I know what tinman is doing and it relates to the Alexander Dyna-motor found here---http://www.rexresearch.com/alxandr/alexandr.htm as well as the Robert Adams motor/generator.


On a note of interest Lenz law is completely dependent on one magnetic field opposing the field change of another magnetic field which we call "induction" which is actually self-induction however Lenz Law has no application if one magnetic field ceases to exist because this is not "induction" by definition it is something else.


AC








Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #62 on: July 22, 2015, 06:00:06 PM »
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Offline picowatt

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #63 on: July 22, 2015, 06:22:10 PM »
Dear All.

Short and sweet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd5EuPkdjQc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRUpToByBug

Possibly pertinent ?  http://www.climtechsolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/library/Lindemann/ElectricMotorSecrets2-Lindemann.pdf

And finally, Brad, did you or did you not, employ the use of N52 strength PM's in your Rotary Transformer ?

Cheers Grum.

Grumage,

In your second video, what exactly are you shorting the brush too?  Were you shorting the brush holder brass to the motor frame or were you actually touching the brush carbon itself?

I ask because normally the motor frame is not electrically connected to the stator or rotor.  If you were shorting the brush holder metal parts to the frame, then there would only be capacitive coupling of the brush voltage to the stator or rotor windings (assuming you have no rotor or stator winding connections to the motor frame, intentional or otherwise).  If you were touching the carbon itself, is it possible you were more so changing the manner in which the brush was contacting the rotor (i.e., tipping the brush slightly, changing tension, etc)?  Either way the results are interesting.

As for the N52 question you posed, have you received an answer?  Did you use an N52 in any of your replication attempts and if so, how did you utilize them?

PW 

Offline Grumage

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #64 on: July 22, 2015, 08:02:56 PM »
Grumage,

In your second video, what exactly are you shorting the brush too?  Were you shorting the brush holder brass to the motor frame or were you actually touching the brush carbon itself?

I ask because normally the motor frame is not electrically connected to the stator or rotor.  If you were shorting the brush holder metal parts to the frame, then there would only be capacitive coupling of the brush voltage to the stator or rotor windings (assuming you have no rotor or stator winding connections to the motor frame, intentional or otherwise).  If you were touching the carbon itself, is it possible you were more so changing the manner in which the brush was contacting the rotor (i.e., tipping the brush slightly, changing tension, etc)?  Either way the results are interesting.

As for the N52 question you posed, have you received an answer?  Did you use an N52 in any of your replication attempts and if so, how did you utilize them?

PW

Dear picowatt.

I was in fact using a "Pozidrive" "cross head" type screwdriver gently touching the leading ( motor rotation ) Commutator segment to the brush holder. In fact you can retard the speed by placing the screwdriver on the lagging side. This was done with the shaved brushes and later with the standard brushes. In fact I actually state verbally what I'm doing at 3.38 minutes into the video.

Now as to the use of permanent magnets? The " jury is still out " !! Brad seems to be ignoring MY questions, perhaps you should ask him ? However if the drawings posted on page one of this thread are anything to go by, my gut feeling is that there ARE PM's involved, somewhere.  ;)

Cheers Grum.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #64 on: July 22, 2015, 08:02:56 PM »
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Offline picowatt

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #65 on: July 22, 2015, 08:14:09 PM »
Dear picowatt.

I was in fact using a "Pozidrive" "cross head" type screwdriver gently touching the leading ( motor rotation ) Commutator segment to the brush holder. In fact you can retard the speed by placing the screwdriver on the lagging side. This was done with the shaved brushes and later with the standard brushes. In fact I actually state verbally what I'm doing at 3.38 minutes into the video.

Now as to the use of permanent magnets? The " jury is still out " !! Brad seems to be ignoring MY questions, perhaps you should ask him ? However if the drawings posted on page one of this thread are anything to go by, my gut feeling is that there ARE PM's involved, somewhere.  ;)

Cheers Grum.

Grum,

So, in effect you were increasing the width of the brush contact with the armature somewhat when you were shorting with the screwdriver.  Correct?

As for the N52, have you attempted using any PM's in your RT experiments?

PW

Offline Grumage

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #66 on: July 22, 2015, 08:27:51 PM »
Grum,

So, in effect you were increasing the width of the brush contact with the armature somewhat when you were shorting with the screwdriver.  Correct?

As for the N52, have you attempted using any PM's in your RT experiments?

PW

Dear picowatt.

Correct.

In an early experiment I placed a stack of 3  15 x 6 mm dia Neo's in a hole drilled into one of the motors pole pieces, see attached photo. Unfortunately this motor was not ideal in it's topography as the brushgear was placed around 70 deg by design. As people may or may not be aware, there are actually two methods of Armature winding. Wave and Lap wound.

Cheers Grum.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #66 on: July 22, 2015, 08:27:51 PM »
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Offline picowatt

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #67 on: July 22, 2015, 08:42:47 PM »
Dear picowatt.

Correct.

In an early experiment I placed a stack of 3  15 x 6 mm dia Neo's in a hole drilled into one of the motors pole pieces, see attached photo. Unfortunately this motor was not ideal in it's topography as the brushgear was placed around 70 deg by design. As people may or may not be aware, there are actually two methods of Armature winding. Wave and Lap wound.

Cheers Grum.

Grum,

That's a clean hole you cut in those laminations.  What did you use?

Your attempt to use some added magnets was an interesting and inspired idea.  I wonder if cutting off and trimming the pole piece and placing the magnet(s) between the modified pole piece and the outer frame would have been more effective.

Placing the magnets in the bored out hole as you have apparently done would tend to create only a local magnetic loop, that is, the motor frame surrounding the bored out hole would tend to act more so as a keeper between the north and south poles of the installed magnets.

Placing the magnet between the pole piece and frame would allow the installed PM's field to travel thru the motor frame and armature (effectively in series with the armature).  As well, the coil surrounding the modified pole piece/PM assembly could be used to modulate the field produced by the PM.

Very interesting...

Thanks Grum,

PW 

 

Offline Grumage

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #68 on: July 22, 2015, 08:56:15 PM »
Grum,

That's a clean hole you cut in those laminations.  What did you use?

Your attempt to use some added magnets was an interesting and inspired idea.  I wonder if cutting off and trimming the pole piece and placing the magnet(s) between the modified pole piece and the outer frame would have been more effective.

Placing the magnets in the bored out hole as you have apparently done would tend to create only a local magnetic loop, that is, the motor frame surrounding the bored out hole would tend to act more so as a keeper between the north and south poles of the installed magnets.

Placing the magnet between the pole piece and frame would allow the installed PM's field to travel thru the motor frame and armature (effectively in series with the armature).

Very interesting...

Thanks Grum,

PW

Dear picowatt.

The hole ? Ah, trade secret !!   ;)

Inspired ? Yes, but not mine, the inspiration is Brads.

I'm also impressed by your use of the correct terminology for these machines. I had two years of day release learning about DC machines and strangely, there is, it appears MORE to them than meets the eye !!

Cheers Grum.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #68 on: July 22, 2015, 08:56:15 PM »
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Offline a.king21

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #69 on: July 22, 2015, 09:14:19 PM »
Grum: Of course PM's are involved.
That's the whole point of the thread.

Offline picowatt

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #70 on: July 22, 2015, 09:18:31 PM »
Dear picowatt.

The hole ? Ah, trade secret !!   ;)

Trade secret?  goodness...

I guess I'd start with additional clamping to prevent the laminations from spreading, drill a hole using twist drills, starting small and increasing the hole size in steps.  Given the correct size drill, one could just use that method, although around here, I'd be tempted to switch to a boring head in my mill to get the exact size I wanted.

PW

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #70 on: July 22, 2015, 09:18:31 PM »
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Offline Grumage

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #71 on: July 22, 2015, 09:28:45 PM »
Trade secret?  goodness...

I guess I'd start with additional clamping to prevent the laminations from spreading, drill a hole using twist drills, starting small and increasing the hole size in steps.  Given the correct size drill, one could just use that method, although around here, I'd be tempted to switch to a boring head in my mill to get the exact size I wanted.

PW

Or just one of these in your Milling machine !!   ;)   With adequate clamping of course !!

Offline picowatt

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #72 on: July 22, 2015, 09:31:16 PM »
I'm also impressed by your use of the correct terminology for these machines.

Cheers Grum.

Actually, I might have been a bit more clear by using "stator laminations" instead of "frame', but I hope I was able to get my point across.

I am definitely no expert regarding electric motors!

PW

Offline picowatt

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #73 on: July 22, 2015, 09:33:45 PM »
Or just one of these in your Milling machine !!   ;)   With adequate clamping of course !!

That is an interesting mill bit.  I have never seen one threaded like that.

There is always so much to learn...

PW

Offline synchro1

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Re: TinMan Generator Research Moderated Topic
« Reply #74 on: July 22, 2015, 10:47:21 PM »
Hi synchro1.
Yes, my 'GAP Power' motor is half-baked :)  The driving coils are bifilar so I could do push-pull.

But recently I've been focused on solid-state MEG/figuera/partnered output coils thingy, will see how that goes soon.
2 blue wire coils N and S with magnets N/N S/S and 2 identical partnered output coils (mirror image).

Here's what Art Porter had to say:

"To date, 08-30-2012, this is the best replication of GAP POWER that I've seen. Peter K. of Poland did this Masterful Job. No doubt very skillful in many fields. His expertise is just what this technology needs. His rotary design, in all probability, will be the best  and most efficient way to manufacture. The video is short but very informative. I'm going to be monitoring his future work.

It doesn't make any difference how big or how small the device is. All it has to do is prove over unity. I believe this device is already there.

Thanks Peter for your hard work and great accomplishment".

Art

 

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