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Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: Magnavox on July 10, 2015, 04:40:39 AM

Title: Mechanically reverse polarity of magnets in motor idea (images)
Post by: Magnavox on July 10, 2015, 04:40:39 AM
Hello, this is my first venture into this.  I was thinking about how a magnetic motor could work, so I looked up how a DC motor works.  I though what about mechanically reversing the orientation, and therefore polarity, of magnets in a motor to act like a DC motor's electromagnets.  I have this so far, it is rough.  What is missing is how to lock the magnets in place once they make their reversal, I have a few ideas in mind. 

It works like this: as the pulling and pushing magnets do their thing against the main magnets (large red & green) they drive the magnet in between them into the gear teeth (purple).  The rotation gears (blue & pink) engage and flip the magnet 180 degrees.  This is where the lock system would disengage then re-engage to prevent the magnet from flipping back around (it would need to be timed very well).  I use a 2-1 reduction on the rotation gears because I figure the pulling and pushing force of the magnet being rotated would pretty well equal the pulling and pushing force of the magnets on either side of it, so this should reduce that force by 50%.  I'm not an engineer, physicist or scientist so I do not know whether this feature will work or be necessary, or for that matter whether the entire idea has any hope of working. 

What do you think?
Title: Re: Mechanically reverse polarity of magnets in motor idea (images)
Post by: Magnavox on September 10, 2015, 05:51:03 AM
Two months and no replies, is my idea that bad?  ???
Title: Re: Mechanically reverse polarity of magnets in motor idea (images)
Post by: gotoluc on September 10, 2015, 06:29:59 AM
Not a bad idea!... just 99.9% of the magnet motors don't work no matter how good the idea is or how cool it looks.

The only way to know is to build it! ... then you'll understand why no one is jumping up to build it.

If I were you I would start with a more simple experiment which looks promising compared to the stuff I've seen over the years

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/20239-magnet-motor-revelation.html (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/20239-magnet-motor-revelation.html)

Hope this helps and thanks for sharing

Luc
Title: Re: Mechanically reverse polarity of magnets in motor idea (images)
Post by: Magluvin on September 10, 2015, 06:42:53 AM
Interesting design.  I got into this some years back. Hope to some day get back into it with some better ways to go about it that I have thought of over the years.

http://overunity.com/9103/magluvins-magnet-motor-mmm-being-released-for-open-source-developement/msg239046/#msg239046

Mags
Title: Re: Mechanically reverse polarity of magnets in motor idea (images)
Post by: gotoluc on September 10, 2015, 06:53:47 AM
Hey Mags, is that a pole flipping stator magnet motor?

Looks cool 8)

Luc
Title: Re: Mechanically reverse polarity of magnets in motor idea (images)
Post by: MagnaProp on September 10, 2015, 07:17:20 AM
...The rotation gears (blue & pink) engage and flip the magnet 180 degrees...
Just saw your design. I always like to look at new magnet motor ideas so thanks for posting it. My concern is how this flip occurs. Sounds like it would fight the flip since in order to flip it has to pull the smaller magnet away from the larger one. I don't see how a gear ratio helps with that.
Title: Re: Mechanically reverse polarity of magnets in motor idea (images)
Post by: Paul-R on September 10, 2015, 02:30:47 PM
A couple of of points:

Depending on the environment, it can take energy to flip the polarity.

Also, it might be possible to demagnetise and re-magnetise (reversed) on the fly. But this will require some energy.
Title: Re: Mechanically reverse polarity of magnets in motor idea (images)
Post by: Magluvin on September 11, 2015, 01:39:59 AM
Yes it is a magnet polarity switcher.  It doesnt do full flips though. Just enough to have more N up and more S down and switch.

In the thread most of it is in great detail.  Spent a LOT of time making all the parts by hand. Well, jig saw using laminate blades for precision cuts, drill and dremel.

It is asymmetric where the rotor has even number of mags alternating N S N S and odd number of stators. The idea was to only switch 1 stator at a time while all the others are in locked push pull mode.  The big issue was that I had originally designed it for 8 rotor mags and seven stators. For some reason i went with 10 rotor and 9 stators.  But I didnt factor in that more created a problem that I didnt foresee till after.  I didnt make modifications to the amount of distance to throw 1 switch at a time.  I was getting double contact on stators. While one was finishing switching, another began. In early tests there was enough force to turn 1 stator at a time, not 2.

I was just sooo frustrated after all that work that while I was in the midst of my plan to commit harry-carry,  I just put it down and made the idea open source.


But over the years I have some things I would change. Will reopen that thread and post them as I have time.


On of the big issues is too much open space creating weak field interactions. I think I have that problem solved.

Anyway, Ill start posting the newer ideas as i get time to think it all together.

If interested, go through the thread and watch the vids.  For hand made, the thing was a gem. Every latch worked perfectly.

Mags
Title: Re: Mechanically reverse polarity of magnets in motor idea (images)
Post by: gotoluc on September 11, 2015, 02:11:11 AM
Excellent work Mags.

I looked at your topic and watched the videos. You're a true craftsman!

Thanks for sharing

Luc
Title: Re: Mechanically reverse polarity of magnets in motor idea (images)
Post by: Magluvin on September 11, 2015, 02:25:29 AM
Thanks Luc

A 3D printer would be key these days. ;)

Mags
Title: Re: Mechanically reverse polarity of magnets in motor idea (images)
Post by: Magluvin on September 12, 2015, 06:50:27 AM
In the design presented by magnavox, I think has a lot of mechanical resistance issues, along with the forces needed to turn/switch those magnets as would any mag switcher motor, having to rotate/switch the magnet from a pull(pull the wheel in the direction intended) to a push condition.

When I decided on that final design to attempt, I had gone over in my mind, along with referencing other designs, what would be the most effective method by reducing any mechanical interactions to an absolute minimum. The first way was to only switch 1 stator at a time during rotor motion, and that each stator would be switched in succession. Its a lot of switching in 1 rotation of the wheel. What, 9 stators and 10 rotor mags, 90 switchings for 1 rotation of the motor.  So the switching has to happen in a very short period of a single rotation.

So the first improvement would be to lower the numbers of stator and rotor mags.  7 n 8 is 56 switchings,  5 n 6 is 30 switchings, 3 n 2 is only 6 switchings per rotor rotation.  Hey. Possibly a different ratio.  4 rotor mags and 9 stators. That would be 36 switchings of the 9 stators. ;) Interesting, this would require less torque to switch a stator, or if set up the same as I had, less time switching with non contact between switchings. Any way you look at it it is an improvement. ;)

I went with the 'hit' n switch method. Only 1 part of the rotor contacts 1 part of the stator switch during a single switching.   But it is constant contact as when a switching is completed, the next one is engaged.

The next improvement would be larger mags on the same setup, or to rebuild everything smaller scale to reduce the spacing between stator and rotor mags. Also a different magnet orientation to make better use of most all of the field of the mags.  In my setup there was just way too much spacing with little mags to have any realistic torque. 

Mags
Title: Re: Mechanically reverse polarity of magnets in motor idea (images)
Post by: sm0ky2 on September 12, 2015, 07:31:37 PM
I agree, there would be serious losses in a mechanical gearing system under magnetic tension.
and the main problem would still exist, as the repelling magnets approach force increases in a direction opposite to the function of the machine.

we have to start looking at the magnetic forces in a different manner. We examine them as equal and opposite, and thus our logical deduction of the mechanics of the device are always 1:1 - losses.
Our thoughts should be along the lines of what is different between two interacting magnetic forces, and how to utilize these differences
in a manner which aids the operation of the device, rather than impeding it.

Those few that succeed in this goal, do so by thinking differently than the 99% of everyone else.