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Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: DreamThinkBuild on July 05, 2015, 11:31:08 PM

Title: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on July 05, 2015, 11:31:08 PM
Hi Stefan,

Thank you for posting that interesting video and English translation of the Luling magnet motor. There is a similar video here by British Pathe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6cycmBwLb8

The following is only my interpretation so it could be wrong but may give an idea for someone.
 
He has two versions shown in the video a small desk top version which only has 2 rotor sections and the larger one which looks like 4 rotor sections with 4 spring arms attached, maybe what the 4x4 was referring to?

Going frame by frame it looks like there are two magnets on a arm which is driven by a cam. It is flush with the oncoming rotor but then is quickly snapped back by the spring and cam action. In between the two magnets looks to be a solid block of iron or electrical steel. When the magnets are in front the field extends outwards but when snapped back the field is neutralized through the block.

You can see this action in the video at 0:15 onwards that the rotor rapidly approaches the magnet then as the rotor gets near the magnets they are quickly snapped back.

After I did the drawings I realized that there could be an inverted operation where the metal is actually a single magnet and the iron/steel plates are what moves back and forth.

The only part that is still nagging me with this design is that there appears to be no friction when he spins it in the opposite direction but the magnets seems stationary. Maybe someone else has an idea for that?
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: kEhYo77 on July 06, 2015, 08:10:07 PM
Nice find Stefan.

From what I can see, the neutralization is accomplished by shunting magnetic field through a cut out, rotating iron bar.
There is an iron slab part that fits inside this cutout forming a magnetic flux path the moment a slab gets inserted into the cutout shaft by rotating the shaft.
Reminds me mechanical flux switching as in 'Ward Force' device of Steven Ward.
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: MasterPlaster on July 06, 2015, 10:26:57 PM
Critical information:

Watch all this guys magnet related videos.
Permanent Magnets: The Secret Of The Two Types Of Magnetic Field Cancellations

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGKGoXD8P5A



Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: ATOM1 on July 07, 2015, 02:00:34 AM
Its not a lot of power its called magnetic inertia ! THIS TYPE OF MOTOR HAS BEEN AROUND FOR 100 YEARS ! If they were any good they would have been mass produced by now. My one is different it can power a 22tone lorry but Stefan wont let me up load it here ?????? I wonder why ??????? R u reading this Stefan ????

ATOM1     
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: hartiberlin on July 07, 2015, 05:26:16 AM
@ATOM1
are you too stupid to upload a file or what ?

The Lüling motor has nothing to do with magnetic inertia,
but with neutralisation and shielding of the magnetic field of permanent magnets..

So looking forward to see your one...
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: Thaelin on July 07, 2015, 10:29:07 AM
I be curious here.  File may be too big in case HJ-split  or non supported file type.  zip and split with 7zip if nothing else.

thay
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: MasterPlaster on July 07, 2015, 12:52:24 PM
There is no secret.
There is no magnetic field cancellation.
Yin and Yang.
balance
In any case.

Sorry.
this is the reality. :)

Watch the video. You may learn something.
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: MagnaProp on July 08, 2015, 07:31:19 AM
Looks like it might have some electrical cables connected to it? Perhaps a starter motor or it's able to generate just enough electricity to pull the magnets back from the sticky spot along with help from the spring and flux canceling methods?

Thanks for the translation hartiberlin. On your translated video at (00:05:37) the last word in that segment, does he say aluminum?
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: DaKrampus on January 12, 2016, 04:29:41 PM
I know this is old but just wanted to add my 2 cents..
Thanks for the translation hartiberlin. On your translated video at (00:05:37) the last word in that segment, does he say aluminum?
no he just talks about the usage.. he says: allen gebieten (this could sound a little like aluminum) but it meens usage in all domains...

as to the shielding i was wondering.. because I do not at all see the positions of the magnets like the graphic in the first  post..

for me the rotating flywheel is iron/steel only. no magnet.. the magnet is in the rotating pipe (the one with the cutout.) the magnet attracts the iron moving part, and when it comes to the point where the magnet wants to hold on to the iron in the rotor ( the sort of sticky point if it were 2 magnets), the spring rotates the pipe so the magnet gets shielded and there is no more attraction.
the magnet then tries to attract the next piece of steel (rotates a little bit pulling the spring) an falling back again..

Alas if i think it may work, i also think that it will not produce as much power as shown in the video. (because i think in the 60ties there were no neodym magnets and the attraction was much much less.) than it could today.

Luciano
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: MagnaProp on January 12, 2016, 09:07:02 PM
...he says: allen gebieten (this could sound a little like aluminum) but it meens usage in all domains...
Thanks for the info and your thoughts on the device are interesting.

Hope I didn't turn people off from investigating this device by pointing out the parts that look electric. TinMan and others have already shown that magnets can do useful work. If this device found a way to only sip electricity while being powered by mainly permanent magnets, it would be a steep in the right direction indeed.
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: guest1289 on January 13, 2016, 03:24:58 AM
Could the cables be draining-off unwanted eddy currents
    -   I think someone already mentioned it on this page,  they typed   
Quote
"flux canceling methods?"

    (  And a far-fetched suggestion,  could there have been a technical mis-interpretation by the media-reporters,  and that 'Luling' actually meant that his device did actually receive some electrical input,  and that he claimed that his device out-putted more than it received  )

   
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: guest1289 on February 06, 2016, 12:23:41 AM
There were a lot of cables easily visible in plain sight.

If it may of been a hoax, the designer doesn't seem like a careless type, he would have hidden them .

  Assuming it wasn't a hoax
    -  There may have been electrical-input,  and it may have been a method to  neutralize the permanent-magnets,  or the metals, through induction, or direct contact .

    -  Of course, maybe there was no electrical-input,  and the cables were either feeding generated current back into the motor,  or,  it was the performance-monitoring system

    -  Could the cables maybe not be carrying electricity, could they be intended to carry  'magnetic-current',  as part of the  'neutralization'  of the permanent-magnets,  or the metals. 
        What happens if you use metals or cables,  to join the S-pole of a magnet to it's N-pole, but I assume you'd need thicker cables .

    But there is a lot of weight providing momentum, maybe his design was so finely tuned to maximize the momentum effect,  that that could have made his device function successfully,  with, or without the above detailed possibilities . 
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: guest1289 on August 21, 2016, 02:51:17 AM
  Somehow I think this was an actually functioning   Self-Running-Permanent-Magnet-Motor  .

    You just manually turned it initially,  it generated some current to power the magnetic-shielding-mechanism,  and then it just kept going by itself. 

    (  I wonder if the inventor was the first to think of it,  because it's the kind of very logical,  basic,  and simple idea that would have been invented even before  ' Luling'  )

    (  There was an identical? motor presented in 2013?( 2014? ) by someone from the same country,  coincidence ? ,  and I think the site-administrator actually visited the person that presented that motor  )

    This would be a great one to reproduce today( unless the one in  2013?( 2014? ) is identical.   
       Maybe it would be easier( for anyone wanting to try ) to do by using your own design,  while still basing it on the same principle.     
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: Liberty on August 21, 2016, 05:18:21 AM
Thanks for the info and your thoughts on the device are interesting.

Hope I didn't turn people off from investigating this device by pointing out the parts that look electric. TinMan and others have already shown that magnets can do useful work. If this device found a way to only sip electricity while being powered by mainly permanent magnets, it would be a steep in the right direction indeed.

With the "Power Assisted Magnet Motor" that I announced a little while ago in the news section, the book proposes using short pulses of electricity while the motor torque is being produced by permanent magnets.  That is exactly what the "Power Assisted Magnet Motor" is capable of doing.  It's not just a "step in the right direction", but is how to very efficiently run a magnet motor.

Liberty
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: guest1289 on August 23, 2016, 12:38:15 AM
With the "Power Assisted Magnet Motor" that I announced a little while ago in the news section, the book proposes using short pulses of electricity while the motor torque is being produced by permanent magnets.  That is exactly what the "Power Assisted Magnet Motor" is capable of doing.  It's not just a "step in the right direction", but is how to very efficiently run a magnet motor.

Liberty

    That could double or  much  more,   the range ( mileage ) of electric-cars .

    (  What about the torque of the motor you mention,  it must have some limitations, even though you said  "motor torque is being produced by permanent magnets"   )

   (  I assume this type of motor would need a much greater amount of permanent-magnets,  higher-cost,  weight  )

        -  Is this the same thing as  'Pulse-Motors'  which are regularly discussed on this site .

           (  I wonder if fine-control via input-current,  is an issue  )

           Start a thread,  website,  youtube-channel
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: dom444 on November 22, 2016, 11:04:28 PM
After studying the film in slow motion I believe i have worked out how it works, I even did a small experiment take a magnet and two steel blocks the same size as the magnet so it covers North and South
poles and place on both sides of the magnet, now place another bar across the top, the magnetic field is  diverted to the blocks and renders the magnet very weak on it face.

as you pull back the steel blocks the face becomes very strong and attracts the steel rotor face. the timing has to be done so when the steel rotor face just begins to  leave the magnet, the blocks neutralize
the magnet and let it continue its travel around.


Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: DaKrampus on November 22, 2016, 11:23:18 PM
Not a bad idea!
But maybe i did not understand correctly, but the steel shielding the magnets is the same quality as on the rotor? i do not think you will have the force (from the machine) to move it around the magnet...
maybe I am wrong...
Luc
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: dom444 on November 22, 2016, 11:27:07 PM
I think you will have plenty when it is in motion if you notice there is a flywheel to give it the momentum it needs when it starts will be self sustaining there is a lever action from the cam follower as well and only has to move the blocks a few centimeters.

and any way a neodymium magnet even one inch square you could not stop the shaft from turning while attracting the steel plate on the shaft.

you can see where the block pivot shaft is mounted is on the periphery of the unit there are two identical setups  for both rotor faces ,
and there is a long cam follower arm and a week spring to over come as well as the attraction of the magnets to the steel blocks it should be  easy to overcome when you also have the flywheel moment to help.

all i can say is do the experiment with the magnet and see for yourself this could be the first magnet motor that can be made to work.
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: dom444 on November 22, 2016, 11:55:05 PM
picture from film if you notice the steel blocks are a bit forward of the magnet when shielding could be important and also the blocks are substantially bigger than the magnet.
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: dom444 on November 23, 2016, 12:22:05 AM
other parts
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: dom444 on November 23, 2016, 04:59:20 AM
One thing else i have noticed he has a control lever with a knob i think what he is doing is lifting one set of blocks of the cam some how to chose what diction it will turn, has you can see in the film that it
first turns one way then turns the other as he engages one set of blocks or the other.

in other words one side is neutralized for one direction or both neutralized for off and the other for other direction, so far it all seems to fit what you see in the film in principle it is very simple but there are many variables timing gaps friction length of rotor steel plate etc.
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: DaKrampus on November 23, 2016, 05:32:12 AM
I fully agree that there are lots of parameters to take into account.
But dont forget that this movie was filmed on film, at  a certain fixed frame rate. so that it turning in one direction, then in the other could very well be an optical illusion. You see that quite often when the motor speed reaches the frame rate it seems to stop, and then move in the other direction when the  speed gets faster than the frame rate of the shutter speed of the camera.

I am still convinced that the magnets are inside heavy steel tubing..
Look at the first pic you posted.. in reply #19 
the spring is attached to what looks like a tube... in this tube next to the spring there is a window cut into the tube. what you see inside imho could be a cylinder type magnet. It is shielded by the pipe, AND by another steel plate that has a bend in it so it would really stop attraction at a given point.

If the magnets were where you put them.. they would be too week as they would have to be quite small to fit. And at the time ( in the 50s and 60s) there were no neodym magnets. so we are talking ferrit magnets at the best.

But again.. i am just speculating. I do not know and might be completely wrong.

Luc
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: dom444 on November 23, 2016, 06:30:59 AM
this is the video at the 14 sec mark first goes one way then reverses its very clear to see

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6cycmBwLb8

I think the magnets where Alnico magnets as used in small motor ignition systems

and you can see him using the lever at first when it was changing direction

at first i thought it was in the tube my self but when you run the film in slow motion it is all clear to see i am not sure why the cutouts are in the tube but you can see it is hollow.

you can not see where the spring is connected but safe to say it is connected to the arm running down to the blocks to pull the blocks back of the magnet as when the arm is forward the spring is stretched  when the arm is back it is not  this would also allow the cam link arm to follow the cam from how it looks.

you can see the magnets in the center of the blocks for a start they are shiny with rounded edges as an Alnico magnet would look




Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: dom444 on November 23, 2016, 06:40:54 AM
I actually think neodymium magnets would present a problem with being to strong pulling on the blocks and causing to much drag, you would then need a stronger spring as well could be counter productive.

he has a 4 rotter plate model on his desk and the one running is an 8 plate model.
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: DaKrampus on November 23, 2016, 08:52:28 AM
yes sir you are right for the direction change. thanx for pointing that out. the lever is very probable a distance lever to be able to stop and start the motor.
as for the magnets i am curious to see your firs tests..
luc
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: dom444 on November 23, 2016, 10:55:26 AM
I did a quick test with a strip of steel glued on a bearing wheel when the magnet is close to the strip it turns the wheel no problem right to the end of the strip sticking point where the interrupter would would work

looks good so far.
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: dom444 on November 24, 2016, 03:30:47 AM
Another find this is where the spring attaches to the block arm but left out in this section
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: dom444 on November 24, 2016, 04:26:11 AM
test setup
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: DaKrampus on November 24, 2016, 08:14:58 AM
cant wait to see it turning...
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: Kator01 on November 24, 2016, 09:47:14 PM
tried to analyze the working-cycle as precise as possible
please have a look at the attached paper

hope it helps.

Mike
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: dom444 on November 24, 2016, 10:37:36 PM
it is correct except its not every second revolution, turning clockwise at the 47 sec mark it attracts the rotor plates in turn ( there are 2 plates), as they approach the magnet it then releases them when the blocks are in place at the end of there travel, if not neutralized the magnet would grab the turning plate as it trying to leave and hold it.

otherwise you are correct.


I am using VLC free media player if you repeatedly press the playback slow tab you can slow it down to as slow as you like then you can see what is going on as the machine moves to fast to work out otherwise
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: dom444 on November 24, 2016, 11:04:50 PM
stages at 47 sec mark
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: dom444 on November 24, 2016, 11:23:14 PM
I suggest we make this an open source project as this is the one magnetic motor where you have a working demonstrable model that was built, my preliminary experiments show the principles are sound
and i am working on a model now, but any help would be appreciated as i said there is research and development involved, as there are variables  and may take a few tries to get it to operate
properly. 

If anyone does the experiments please share results so we can move forward, if anyone has experience with magnetic modeling it would be good to see the magnetic pattern with the influence of steel blocks around a magnet both shielded and unshielded,

thanks Domenic
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: Kator01 on November 25, 2016, 02:35:34 AM
Domenic,

you are right I used the ( -) key while watching the vid with the vlc-player: there are two accelleration events.

One remark:

the blocks are back in neutralizing-position already in stage three ( image 3 )

Mike
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: dom444 on November 25, 2016, 02:45:57 AM
yes you are right was a split second before they where retreating back didn't quit capture it, it moves very fast.
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: dom444 on November 25, 2016, 10:57:11 PM
Experiment 1 a short clip to show how the magnet attracts a strip of metal on a wheel to turn it to the sticking point you can clearly see how it bounces back from the attraction at the end of travel.

this is where the magnetic neutralizing blocks would release it.
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: dom444 on November 26, 2016, 01:28:46 AM
I was playing around with magnetic modeling software this is what i have  I am not sure if i did it right first time i have used it
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: dom444 on November 26, 2016, 01:37:09 AM
this is it modeled with silicon steel permeability of 10000 the higher the permeability the more it absorbs the magnetic field. the best thing to use is pure iron permeability of 15000.
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: dom444 on November 26, 2016, 02:59:02 AM
with iron and larger blocks 15000 permeability.
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: dom444 on November 26, 2016, 03:17:06 AM
this is a small clip with 2 steel pieces ether side of magnet no more lock when turning just very small amount of  attraction
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: dom444 on November 26, 2016, 04:35:52 AM
moved the blocks forward a bit more seams to be the way to go the  field becomes very week, centering the blocks with the magnet in the middle draws the field into an hour glass shape as i had noted earlyer in the posts the fact he has the blocks a bit forward is important.
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: dom444 on November 26, 2016, 05:50:38 AM
with rotor plate  in place and blocks in place then retracted back. wow i was not expecting this I think there is little doubt that this can work this modeling if correct tells the whole story.

this is a magnetic switch that lends itself to many other designs of permanent magnet self running motors I wonder how many people actually know what there looking at here?
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: dom444 on November 26, 2016, 06:50:13 AM
Do you want more power ;)  just playing around. but seriously I was wondering why Friedrich didn't just activate both sides of the motor at the same time and double the power insted it looks like he
used the other side as a reversing system for the motor?
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: dom444 on November 26, 2016, 07:41:01 AM
it just gets better this is using 2 magnets flipping one south and the other north.
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: dom444 on November 26, 2016, 07:51:52 AM
2 magnets nulled, I bet Mr Luling wished he had this software by using 2 magnets flipped you more than double the power.
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: dom444 on November 27, 2016, 05:40:12 AM
I am currently waiting on some magnets but have already worked out a better system where by you move the magnets with a cam same as a car valve and not the iron blocks, should allow faster revolutions as less weight to move which probably the biggest problem with his system.

anyone on this forum thinking of patenting should watch this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7QauYjhuZg
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: dom444 on November 27, 2016, 01:01:56 PM
A little hint to anyone out there trying to replicate this and this is very important

make sure that if you are mounting the plates on the horizontal plane  or vertical it must be that  the bearings must be firm with no play and also the magnets, or you will not achieve proper rotation of the disc or the rotor the
rotary motion comes about because of the initial attraction of the magnet and because it has no where to go it translates into rotation and this  will be dissipated if there is any wobble in the assembly,  i have already found this out.   



http://panacea-bocaf.org/patentoffice.htm

Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: Thaelin on November 28, 2016, 05:31:02 PM
   On the cam and lifters, sometimes the simplest way is the best way. The only reason to complicate things is to hide things. Way too many examples of that the way it is.  In short, KISS
  thay
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: dom444 on November 28, 2016, 07:52:48 PM
that is true Thaelin funny thing is friedrich luling didn't really hide anything, they are showing you the internal works of  the unit, it is just moving to fast, but with our computers it is easy to slow it down now and follow what is going on and he even tells you.
In Stefans translation he says it attracts the rotor to the sticking point and he has found a way to neutralize the magnetic field to allow it to continue on.  1957 was a time when people had integrity many of the old inventions on film showed it all,  it was not about patenting and becoming a millionaire,  money is the driving force now. 
I also think at that stage of technology they didn't have the pool of knowledge we have now and that may have been the only way he could come up with if he had magnetic modelling he would also had done it different.

and another hint for people trying to replicate the rotor must be balanced you have 2 steel or iron plates on both sides of a rotor, you need to counter weight it at 90 deg to the plates so you have a balanced spin.
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: Eniac5state on March 04, 2017, 10:38:49 AM
Can we first keep it simple ??  This is how a magnet motor should work:
Make magnets on rotor. Say two or four.
Now get a stator magnet in the vincinity of the rotor magnet.
The rotor will now turn towards the stator. Easy. But now the rotor will stop at that point so,
the stator magnet should isolated so the rotor can run in its own momentum. Easy.
But a trick, what if we use a high efficiënt elektromagnet as the stator magnet?
We don't have to shield anymore and can use neodymium magnets !
"But a strong elektromagnet costs energy" say the dummies. Not anymore. There is an
elektromagnet that can hold a person with two AA BATTERIES ! They are on sale.
Just make those switchable and the engine is nearly ready. Smile and start building.
Then attach a generator to it.
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: dieter on March 05, 2017, 09:03:16 AM
So this dude has found a way to turn off the permanent magnet at the sticky point he says. Great. Does he also reveal hiw he does that?


If not, honestly, then this is just another guess n speculate thing. And these things never work.


Such a prefered myth consumption loop is really an interesting behaviour pattern. I wonder why people don't concentrate on open source concepts.
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: guest1289 on March 06, 2017, 05:44:16 PM
The following magnet-motor from 2013 seems genuine( I received an email from someone who viewed it ), and the  magnetic-shielding concept seems familiar  to the 'Friedrich Luling motor' ,  :

http://blog.hasslberger.com/2013/11/german_inventor_solves_permane.html

You probably already saw the design I posted last year :

http://overunity.com/16528/my-magnet-motor-3-5-is-censored-on-all-the-internet-search-engines/

However,  according to some knowledgeable people,   most magnet-motors  are a waste of time because no magnets,  not even neodymium ones will last very long in a magnet-motor ,  especially if they are continually being repelled,  I have never built one,  so I don't know.

Although,  no repelling occurs in my 'Magnet-Motor-3.5' .

Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: dieter on March 06, 2017, 07:27:40 PM
Ah, that "magnets being used up" is pretty much nonsense. It certainly does not nullify any violation of the first law, provided there is any such working all magnet motor.


About Engel, so basicly he's using a rotating Magnet on the stator. At least that was revealed before he died. This is driven by 7mA 9V dc motor, 63 mW.


However, I did in fact observe some strange imbalance between the forces of attraction and repulsen and that of momentum alignement. I still would not outrule this phenomen as a driving force.


Watching a PM closer made me notice two things: in a magnetic field, two forces are involved: the force of the polar attraction and the force of vectoral alignement. Two magnets, facing eachother, will only attract or repell, but two magnets, side by side, will experience both, torque and attraction and repulsion. Seemingly Torque is not just the result of attraction and repulsion.


So there may be a window of probability, contradicting accepted beliefs, but a lot of guesswork is involved.


Your thread linked above I will read now...
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: dieter on March 06, 2017, 08:11:19 PM
So your thread is basicly a rant about google. Yes, google does censor a lot, and being top ranking on google requires to use tricks. Their indexing engine became a bit stupid lately, serving tons of spam, eg. hundreds of instant urls, containing your search term, but all fake. Yet, searching for a pdf of a book, will list tons of fake book sites and after hours of download attempts, must give up (now having revealed their email addresses to all those sites, which require an account etc.)


Google could even serve customized search results, since every google account user (also youtube or samsung/android) has his personality file at google, for personalized google Ads and what not.


Theoreticly a AI program could use this to do evil things, such as isolating certain people, or drive them into suicide.


So better don't use google at all, also no device in which google has hardcoded access, such als Galaxy etc.


Searching for a certain book on search.yandex.ru then brougjt me in seconds to bookzz.org, that is censored by google.


About your motor. Basicly a ramp motor, as far as I understand. Thousends had the same idea. Does not work, as azzraction and repulsion are in equilibrium, regardless of the angle. What comes out must have come in.


That is all part of the learning curve and the one of accepted science ends shortly after the basics in magnetism (the dogmata minefield no established labcoat dares to cross), so stay optimistic, progressive knowledge is just behind the next corner.
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: guest1289 on March 08, 2017, 07:53:56 PM
 NOTE :  I UPDATED THIS POST TO CLARIFY SOME THINGS

 that link to my  "magnet-motor-3.5" was just so you'd see the motor

  my  "magnet-motor-3.5" is especially designed to make the only  'potential'   sticky-point on the  individual  'propulsion-components',  work against the same  sticky-point  on the other  'identical'  individual  'propulsion-components',  repeating that effect as many times as required to  effectively-neutralize  all these  potential  identical  sticky-points.
        -  that then allows the propulsion-effect  to be unaffected by any  'potential' sticky-points
        - a perfectly optimized design in terms of ratios/proportions of components/magnetic-strengths  could even possibly eliminate the need for multiple  propulsion-components

     My other magnet-motor  designs I have posted on this site since 2015,  'may' '?'  not have as much potential as this motor,  however,  they may be even more interesting
_______________

   If you wanted to defeat the law of  thermodynamics-?/conservation-of-energy-?( I can't remember which laws they are )  you do not even need to build a magnet-motor,  there is something much simpler,  and just as impressive

   All-Permanent-Magnet-'Full'-Levitation defeats  the law of thermodynamics-?/conservation-of-energy-?,  by directly disproving   earnshaw's-theorem,  and,  the law of  magnetic-levitation,  in other words achieving the same as  Electromagnetic-Levitation  but only by  using  Permanent-Magnets,  nothing else,  and no cheating by using  diamagnetics
      -  explained 3 paragraphs down

   at least two members on this site have said they built devices achieving  All-Permanent-Magnet-'Full'-Levitation,  and one device was even a functioning  magnetic-bearing

  ( full-levitation means that the levitating-magnet/magnets absolutely do no touch anything else at all  )

  earnshaw's-theorem says that All-Permanent-Magnet-'Full'-Levitation  can not be achieved,  because,  if it is achieved,  then the levitating-magnet/magnets  would be  constantly  vibrating/moving,   and this would therefore be  perpetual-motion/free-energy

    Relating to the above paragraph,  one of the two members on this site who said that they built devices achieving  All-Permanent-Magnet-'Full'-Levitation,  said that they did in fact observe this constant  vibration(  perpetual-motion/free-energy  )

   I posted numerous All-Permanent-Magnet-'Full'-Levitation  designs since  2015,  some were  rotatable-bearings,  while others were just  couplings,  these designs were designed to work at any angle in relation to gravity,
      My designs would function like as a 3d-version of the  following  very-impressive  invention below( the invention below is not my invention ),  called  the  "inverter magnet"
      -  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyvfDzRLsiU 
            I didn't know about that invention,  when I started posting my designs,  but afterwards I thought of that invention as a type of proof of the validity of my designs
            (  Note : There are inventions  pre-dating the above invention ( the "inverter magnet" ),  which achieve the same effect  )

      However,  as I mentioned before,  people have/must already have designed and successfully built these things( 'full'-levitation-versions,  long before me  )

      Note : I have not successfully built any of these things, I don't have appropriate magnets etc

      Note : this is actually mentioned on the wikipedia-pages for  earnshaws-theorem,  and for  magnetic-levitation
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earnshaw's_theorem
Quote
Earnshaw's theorem has no exceptions for non-moving permanent ferromagnets. However, Earnshaw's theorem does not necessarily apply to moving ferromagnets
     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_levitation
           In the page above for magnetic-levitation,  it is even more ambiguously mentioned,  so much so that at the moment I can no longer pinpoint it, they may have changed it, but basically this page just refers to Earnshaw's-theorem anyway
     
      obviously you'll find no pictures of this,  on wikipedia,  and people like the 2 members on this site will not post anything either,  as you probably see why

      so today, these homebuilt devices must be very common in households interested in them

      Note :  This also applies to   'Electrostatics'

      Levitating-Toy-Train 
         So, using my designs,  and/or the invention in the video,  you should be able to build a toy All-Permanent-Magnet-'Full'-Levitation  Train,  using flexible magnetic-strips( having N-S polarity ) as tracks,  so basically,  you would have  3-rails
             -  two outer-rails to repel the train upwards
             -  and one-inner-rail  to anchor/attract( 'no'-contact, just like the  "inverter magnet" )  the train to the track
        (  However,  the inventions that  Pre-Date  the  "inverter magnet"  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyvfDzRLsiU  ,  could mean that this train could be achieved just by using  just  2-rails  )
            As you can see,  this train would never be allowed in toy shops.

       (  these are the only of any of my designs that I tried building, but I don't have the right magnets  )

       Apparently, according to one of the members on this site, the very simplest way to achieve this  is just by using a  magnetic-cylinder,  to repel something inside?/above it?
       
       But this was actually also a miscellaneous design I included in a PDF I posted on this-? site and on other places,  my design was simply a  ring-magnet,  and then you have the  floating-magnet  floating just above it( in it's center ),  and keeping it in place using the methods below
        in the design I posted in places( I can't remember precisely where ),
        -  below the  ring-magnet,  I included  a  magnetic-anchor( 'no'-contact, just like the  "inverter magnet" ),  to keep the  floating-magnet( a long component maybe containing 2 magnets )  right in the center( and slightly above) of the  ring-magnet
        -  but a much easier way would be to have a  weight( non metallic, or non magnetizable )  hanging down from the  floating-magnet  to keep it floating  right in the center( and slightly above) of the  ring-magnet,  a  gravity-magnetic-floater
       
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: dieter on March 10, 2017, 01:48:00 AM
The weight, fixed over a rigid rod, would also and especially prevent the floater to flip over.


all PM levitation is possible, but difficult, just like placing a soccer ball on a piece of fluffy rubber foam. Although I don't see any first law violation, and I'd be surprised about that constant vibration thing since I'd rather expect it to settle down at the equilibrium.


A Microwave oven magnet may be used to repell the floater magnet. If the repulsion is strong enough for both, floater and the mentioned weight.
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: rstergar on April 14, 2017, 04:30:27 PM
hi everyone

after reading about this motor and do some tests I decided to try build one because after testing when magnet is surrounded by steel there is almost no attraction force anymore so I think 90% that this might work :)

will update soon...
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: rstergar on April 23, 2017, 12:44:53 PM
update:

currently done 80% :)

the attraction between magnet and steel plate which demagnetize a magnet is lower than i thought. it will easily move with the spring which pull it back while operate...

https://youtu.be/FZ0kX6kBVfY
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: PolaczekCebulaczek on April 23, 2017, 02:59:49 PM
update:

currently done 80% :)

the attraction between magnet and steel plate which demagnetize a magnet is lower than i thought. it will easily move with the spring which pull it back while operate...

https://youtu.be/FZ0kX6kBVfY

Excellent work!, keep going, your setup look really awesome and solid. The Luling motor is the only one that i found worth a build.
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: rstergar on December 31, 2017, 04:43:35 PM
Thank you :)

But this model will not work because I must start over and create it more precise and with better materials than plastic...

Here is my new idea of design: https://youtu.be/oAvcmSFOfns

I will start ASAP...will update here ;)
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: sm0ky2 on January 04, 2018, 12:45:50 PM
So this dude has found a way to turn off the permanent magnet at the sticky point he says. Great. Does he also reveal hiw he does that?


If not, honestly, then this is just another guess n speculate thing. And these things never work.


Such a prefered myth consumption loop is really an interesting behaviour pattern. I wonder why people don't concentrate on open source concepts.


Perhaps you have never heard of Howard Robert Johnson?

Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: nosnbora on February 28, 2018, 04:06:44 PM
hello,
i read for 2 years in this forum now, just signed up only because this great approach to lünings magnet motor.
i think it doesnt work like this because the iron blocks, once in line with the magnet, will stick very strong to the magnet in the middle.
yes, there is a spring to pull it back, but i wouldnt underrate the force the iron sticks to the magnet.

you can disable or at least weaken a permanent magnet by attaching a coil around it. or better: the square shaped coil is attached between the iron blocks and move with them over the magnet.
i think if the coil is fixed on the magnet it doesnt make a difference because then the coil holding the ironblocks in place...
this coil has to be energized only for a very short pulse to set the iron blocks free again, so the spring can easily pull the iron blocks back.

thats the only thing why the motor shouldnt work properly. and i think thats the reason why there are some wires on the motor in the orinigal video.

is this too easy? ^^
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: Eniac5state on April 12, 2018, 11:57:34 AM
RSTERGAR  you are the best builder i have ever seen in this field !   But we are in modern times now with hightecher materials:

"Can we first keep it simple ??  This is how a magnet motor should work:
Make magnets on rotor. Say two or four.
Now get a stator magnet in the vincinity of the rotor magnet.
The rotor will now turn towards the stator. Easy. But now the rotor will stop at that point so,
the stator magnet should isolated so the rotor can run in its own momentum. Easy.
But a trick, what if we use a high efficiënt elektromagnet as the stator magnet?
We don't have to shield anymore and can use neodymium magnets !
"But a strong elektromagnet costs energy" say the dummies. Not anymore. There is an
elektromagnet that can hold a person with two AA BATTERIES ! They are on sale.
Just make those switchable and the engine is nearly ready. Smile and start building.
Then attach a generator to it."

Do these people know where these 2 AA batteries magnets that can hold a person, are sold ?
If you can't do that easy task you will never reach anything without the help of others.

This is called very dependant on others. Like a kid. 
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: norman6538 on April 12, 2018, 02:32:15 PM
Where is this
"elektromagnet that can hold a person with two AA BATTERIES"?
Norman

RSTERGAR  you are the best builder i have ever seen in this field !   But we are in modern times now with hightecher materials:

"Can we first keep it simple ??  This is how a magnet motor should work:
Make magnets on rotor. Say two or four.
Now get a stator magnet in the vincinity of the rotor magnet.
The rotor will now turn towards the stator. Easy. But now the rotor will stop at that point so,
the stator magnet should isolated so the rotor can run in its own momentum. Easy.
But a trick, what if we use a high efficiënt elektromagnet as the stator magnet?
We don't have to shield anymore and can use neodymium magnets !
"But a strong elektromagnet costs energy" say the dummies. Not anymore. There is an
elektromagnet that can hold a person with two AA BATTERIES ! They are on sale.
Just make those switchable and the engine is nearly ready. Smile and start building.
Then attach a generator to it."

Do these people know where these 2 AA batteries that can hold a person, are sold ?
If you can't that easy task you will never reach anything without the help of others.

This is called very dependant on others. Like a kid.
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: Eniac5state on April 12, 2018, 02:35:57 PM
Rstergar important.

  Your engine is missing the vital part. It needs a lightweight flywheel
  so that with one magnet action, the engineshaft will turn 5 times by
  itself. A lightweight (fly)wheel with good bearings from a kidsbike.
  Not a heavy massive wheel. So attach a longer axle and the flywheel sits
  beside the table. Now we are getting somewhere. In the very beginning
  a car engine was 8 liters and 30 hp. Nowerdays we have a 0,5 liter
  engine with 340 hp. Just a bit of extra knowhow gives extremely better
  results. No good flywheel = no working magnet engine !
 
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: norman6538 on April 12, 2018, 05:03:41 PM
Thank you :)

But this model will not work because I must start over and create it more precise and with better materials than plastic...

Here is my new idea of design: https://youtu.be/oAvcmSFOfns (https://youtu.be/oAvcmSFOfns)

I will start ASAP...will update here ;)

Regarding the animation - how do you keep the metal from getting stuck at the magnet?

Norman
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: dom444 on June 20, 2018, 12:45:56 AM
It  has been a while since i did the research on this motor the force holding the metal blocks when near the magnet  is not strong using my hand i successfully  could make the motor spin easy when rocking the blocks back and forward on the magnets with the model i made,  the difficulty is with the cam system getting it right, i still think it can work but have been to busy to do any work on it lately its timing and the materials used that are important.
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: Low-Q on June 20, 2018, 07:28:30 AM
It  has been a while since i did the research on this motor the force holding the metal blocks when near the magnet  is not strong using my hand i successfully  could make the motor spin easy when rocking the blocks back and forward on the magnets with the model i made,  the difficulty is with the cam system getting it right, i still think it can work but have been to busy to do any work on it lately its timing and the materials used that are important.
It is very hard, if not impossible, to determine the energy you spend with your hands to make this motor going.
A weak magnet, and with a motor without load, you will barely feel any counterwork done on your hand.
Using a cam system will most probably cause the weak motor to stop. The easiest explanation why it will stop is because magnetism isn't energy. It's just a force.


Vidar
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: dom444 on June 20, 2018, 11:56:07 PM
you are wrong there my model is made of solid steel and welded nearly lost a finger tip as the force of the rotor approaches the magnets there is real force and not just a bit as i said problem  is the timing.i used neodymium magnets x2 on each face when it is near the face of the rotor  you cant stop it it is not a kids motor, and mine is only small imagine a big one. 
I used steel because its all i had but what i really want is cast iron for the rotor plates i can't find any hear where i am as it adds even more to the attraction force when you get serious about building this motor
there are real forces involved and you have to be careful with it.
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: truesearch on June 21, 2018, 05:27:01 PM
@dmo444

I'd be interested to learn more about your magnet-motor research. Would you be willing to share some pictures of what you are doing?


truesearch
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: rstergar on July 22, 2018, 11:33:12 AM
here is my new idea...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLTESkXFSr8 - but when I put magnets inside shielding rotor it is hard to rotate.. it has sticky point...
so I came up with new idea:=
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWDlUEB3h98 - but still sticky point .... so now I have a new idea...
i will fix magnets with rotation shielding...so everything will rotate...
I will update ;)
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: dom444 on November 26, 2018, 12:48:34 AM
here is a simple way to make an attraction motor based on Fredrich Luling principal using an electromagnet to break the magnetic lock.
you can ad one electromagnet assembly for each magnet for more power and capture the back emf with a diode as well.
As a matter of fact you can multiply the magnets and attractor assemblies into a very powerful motor with little power to run.

I just noticed this is a Bedini machine with attractor plates to give power to the wheel.
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: dom444 on November 26, 2018, 01:36:14 AM
here it is modernized,
I have tested the electromagnet attractor steel piece combination and it 100% works test it yourself?
this design could also be optimized with pulse width control of coils to further reduce consumption, back emf could charge another battery while in use like Bedini motor as well.
Also notice that this design produces high amount of torque when magnets are attracted all at the same time I have not built it yet but I am sure it will be a good performance design.



Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: doktorsvet on November 29, 2018, 07:56:49 AM
narrowing at the end
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: doktorsvet on November 29, 2018, 08:07:29 AM
... and a magnet from sticking

Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: Low-Q on December 22, 2018, 09:54:28 PM
I'm afraid that the electromagnet is doing all the work here. And if you add a magnet to it, you must supply more energy into it so it can neutralize the field while the rotor magnet escapes.


Vidar
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: lancaIV on December 22, 2018, 10:34:45 PM
About electromagnets holding force, f.e. :

http://translationportal.epo.org/emtp/translate/?ACTION=description-retrieval&COUNTRY=DE&ENGINE=google&FORMAT=docdb&KIND=A1&LOCALE=en_EP&NUMBER=19706659&OPS=ops.epo.org/3.2&SRCLANG=de&TRGLANG=en

2 "D" cell battery example : up to 500 pounds holding force
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19820817&CC=US&NR=4345174A&KC=A# (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19820817&CC=US&NR=4345174A&KC=A#)
an electromagnetic wheel concept :
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19720623&CC=FR&NR=2112768A5&KC=A5# (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19720623&CC=FR&NR=2112768A5&KC=A5#)
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: Low-Q on December 23, 2018, 01:13:43 PM
About electromagnets holding force, f.e. :

http://translationportal.epo.org/emtp/translate/?ACTION=description-retrieval&COUNTRY=DE&ENGINE=google&FORMAT=docdb&KIND=A1&LOCALE=en_EP&NUMBER=19706659&OPS=ops.epo.org/3.2&SRCLANG=de&TRGLANG=en (http://translationportal.epo.org/emtp/translate/?ACTION=description-retrieval&COUNTRY=DE&ENGINE=google&FORMAT=docdb&KIND=A1&LOCALE=en_EP&NUMBER=19706659&OPS=ops.epo.org/3.2&SRCLANG=de&TRGLANG=en)

2 "D" cell battery example : up to 500 pounds holding force
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19820817&CC=US&NR=4345174A&KC=A# (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19820817&CC=US&NR=4345174A&KC=A#)
an electromagnetic wheel concept :
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19720623&CC=FR&NR=2112768A5&KC=A5# (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19720623&CC=FR&NR=2112768A5&KC=A5#)
Who is ignoring what user?
Vidar
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: lancaIV on December 23, 2018, 01:33:12 PM
We can ever ignore fails and wrong measurements by others or about their partial step-by-step success.Better if this can be self experimented by easy and repeatable tests.D.I.Y.
Do not be afraid about time spending , the Flynn Bros. only needed a little over twenty years for their trial&fail& success research and development.
But today by use from newest development : an electromagnetic Hallbach array, most of the problems are resolved.
Sincerely and wishing a "Merry Christmas !"OCWL
post scriptum: conventionally we learn F= BIL, somebody - in Taiwan- researched and defined F= BIL x K,K= Konstante , is it to ignore ?!Search& Research of different thinking in Science and written,publicly, "surprisingly" results.
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: Low-Q on December 23, 2018, 04:31:15 PM
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.
Ok. I'll let admin know you're littering the forum, or did your computer post the same text over and over?
Title: Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
Post by: lancaIV on December 23, 2018, 05:20:19 PM
Ok. I'll let admin know you're littering the forum, or did your computer post the same text over and over?
What I can write here is : I DID NOT WRITE THIS " blue #79" PHRASES !

Anybody is playing here around and yes the Admin should look after this poster #79 at 01:33:12 P.M.,cause the post #78 from me written has the same timing,01:33:12 P.M. !
2 posts in same second : impossible -physically and technically from my side ! BTW : working from a Tab

Sincerely
OCWL