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Author Topic: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor  (Read 110582 times)

Offline nix85

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Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
« Reply #180 on: April 02, 2022, 10:33:06 PM »

Hello Nix85,


Sorry, but that video is absurd, makes no sense at all.


There must be Neutralization of magnetic field forces, before even starting to put it together, whether is CAD or in a Real Build, guy don't even mentions that word...

It is not absurd. It may not be complete, but not absurd. You are assuming pulling the magnet away at critical point is not neutralization. I used to think like that myself assuming it takes equal energy to pull the steel away as gained from attraction, but it is not so if done right.

One example, this one is using repulsion not attraction, but this italian grandpa is saying how periodically pushing with a magnet against a magnet generates more energy than invested in the pushing, which he based his stellar motor on...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zg4mVFP209Y

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These motors are not build to beat Lenz...they are built to prove magnets do have energy and usable.

You missed the point, the point was that it is ironic to build a powerful magnet motor ala Muammer Yildiz, Perendev.....just to attach it to an ordinary generator and fight against lenz brute force.

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And you are under estimating the forces in Magnetic Fields...

Again, you totally misunderstood. Magnetic force is INFINITE. All i said is there are many ways to relatively simply make a low power magnet motor, basically a toy.

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My Build, has been the best so far ever replicating the Lüling Magnet Motor...as a matter of fact, I went above his RPM´s (298) to 415 RPM´s....and I am only using "one module" built so far...as Lüling has Four Modules in his running prototype.

Lüling uses either Pneumatic or could even be Hydraulics (too slow in my opinion) to make required reciprocations to brake neutralization at the perfect timing...

Lüling was applying this reciprocations of the steel arc (seen on the running prototype) in order to brake neutral point before reaching sticky point.

Cheers

Ufopolitics


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytCVQ-OZZmM

PD: I am not trying to start any new discussion here...just rendering my opinion.


I saw your video before, not underestimating your effort, but to be honest, that can hardly be called a Luling replica.

I don't think he used pneumatic or hydraulics for a simple reason they are totally not needed.

As they are not needed in Muammer Yildiz, Perendev and many other higher power magnet-only motors. Sticky point can be neutralized by clever arrangement of magnets and iron, especially if combined with pulling the stator away by a lever at the key moment.



Offline Cadman

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Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
« Reply #181 on: April 02, 2022, 10:47:57 PM »
Nix85, Sigh… well I guess I’ll just have to tell everyone part of what I can see. You evidently have not studied the evidence that Semi provided.

BTW, thank you Semi.

Observe the video frames 1603 through 1623 and you will see that the steel bar above the magnets you are referring to is pulled away as the rotor approaches the magnets and returned over the magnets as the center of the rotor segment has passed the magnet, fully returning before the edge of the rotor passes the magnets. Exactly the opposite of what you say everyone knows.

So this is one part of my theory, the magnet field isn’t actually neutralized, it’s redirected. This can be seen in the same video frames. There is a large shunt visible swinging to and from the back side of the magnets as well as the thin one above the magnets. Pay attention to the timing observable in those video frames.

Cadman

Offline nix85

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Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
« Reply #182 on: April 02, 2022, 11:05:17 PM »
No reason to sigh, you should've presented your idea from the first post instead of saying how no one but you got it right.

Anyway, it would be more helpful if you linked the video with a time reference.

Like so https://youtu.be/Lks8N-_dQLs?t=297

Looking at 0.25 speed i agree steel bar returns as the magnet comes nearest to it, contrary to what i said, i'll give you that.

But your theory that flux is redirected instead of neutralized does not make much sense. Redirected where? Whichever part is used to redirect the flux becomes your new sticky point.

What does make far more sense is that steel bar is not really a steel bar but a magnet repelling the rotor magnet, so it's out of it's way until it comes closest at which point it is introduced and strong repulsion (unlike what Luling himself says) takes place.

Quoting Luling as translated by Stephan

"this is a rotor which is attracted by a system
and the rotor runs until the  sticky point
at this shortly before the sticky points a
neutralization of the magnet takes place
so the rotor can turn on so that's their"

Or maybe upper part of the steel bar really is just steel so rotor is attracted to it but bottom part is repelling magnet, so at key moment attraction turns to repulsion.

Offline Cadman

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Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
« Reply #183 on: April 02, 2022, 11:42:20 PM »
Please stop putting words in my mouth.
I have repeatedly referred to Semi’s work as the source of my information.
Go here https://s-em-i.github.io/s-em-i.github.io-SecretsOfLueling/
Scroll down to Video Data then under section Content – Size click the link FRAMES JPG approx. 12 GB
At that site download the one ending with FRAMES_09_TYPE_4x4_MOTOR_NO.3
Those are 1.94 GB. Once you have them you should have individual frames from 1584 through 2003.
Ignore what anyone else has ever written or said, including me, and decide for yourself what makes the motor run.


Offline nix85

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Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
« Reply #184 on: April 03, 2022, 12:06:39 AM »
Who is putting words in your mouth, i sure am not.

Those higher res frames tell us nothing about the key point, the magnetic properties of the steel bar.

"Ignore what anyone else has ever written or said, including me, and decide for yourself what makes the motor run."

Look at you telling people what to do, how "wise".

There is not enough information to decide here, all we can is hypothesize. I already given my opinion that idea of diverting flux does not hold water and that it is most likely he is combining ferromagnetic attraction and magnetic repulsion to bypass the sticky point.

Offline nix85

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Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
« Reply #185 on: April 03, 2022, 12:58:59 AM »
Take this basic wankel principle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovPQ5dMy7GQ

Imagine if he placed a piece of iron of proper thickness at proper angle before and behind the first magnet on the left and it would cross the gap effortlessly so that cycle can repeat. Scale it up, add many in parallel and there is your high power magnet-only motor, no electromagnets, levers, pneumatics or hydraulics.

Offline nix85

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Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
« Reply #186 on: April 03, 2022, 11:11:41 AM »
Looking at 0.25 speed i agree steel bar returns as the magnet comes nearest to it, contrary to what i said, i'll give you that.

Now that i slept over this, i remembered i knew this detail for years since i first saw the Luling motor. But this by far not being my main point of attention i forgot it. In any case, idea that flux is redirected at sticky point is just wrong. If steel bar was only attracting the rotor magnet at the sticky point attraction would be enormous, it would take a very high power electromagnet to cancel that, obviously magnetic repulsion is an absolute must here. Like i said before, probably with repelling magnets in the bottom part of the steel bar.

With that said, when it comes to sticky points in general you got to make the passing magnet go "Huh, what da %$# is going on here", forces must be balanced with exact timing, otherwise your access to the fat land will be denied.

Offline Ufopolitics

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Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
« Reply #187 on: April 03, 2022, 11:04:22 PM »
Hello,


Like I said before...I am not trying to generate arguments here...what I have shared about Lüling previously, as what I have built successfully, is just my opinion, so anyone could feel free to disagree with me.


Yildiz magnet motor is a different concept, Perendev is another thing...all completely different than Lüling.  btw, Yildiz never shows (in all his conferences videos) the big cylindrical part where shaft goes...only letting people see pieces taken off with cylindrical magnets of what is supposed to be the ¨stator¨...however, he never takes apart that cylindrical drum or his armature...He just shows what he wants to...basically to collect money from his conferences as some investors who pass by...


The Motor I have presented on that video is about Neutralization of Magnetic Forces...without them, Motor will not run...
Lüling mentions Neutralization achievements that he has been working and developing for like 12 years...


The only difference between my motor and Lüling is that He uses Attraction as the force to run motor, while braking (or turning OFF) neutralization with the Repulse side...And so, I do the opposite, I use Repulsion to power motor, and use Attraction to turn On-Off Neutralization.


Anyone who has played with magnet motors knows that the only way that you could turn that rotor so smoothly with one finger (like Lüling does on video) is by first, neutralizing the magnetic forces.


That Arc of Steel that swivels back and forth, is in charge to turn OFF Neutralization at the repulsion side, which causes Attraction Forces to gain max levels, so when Steel Arc retracts, Neutralization is back ON...so attract side will not stick, but continues with the acceleration obtained when Neutralization was off...and again, that is just the way I believe (my take) on how Luling Motor turns Off Neutralization.


Steel would never ¨repel¨any magnet...no matter what pole is facing...Now, whenever you have two magnets in max repulsion alignment even with a very small air gap...then you approach a heavy steel right in between that repulse gap (contouring that gap in a full encirclement or a hole, which passes through magnets)...Repulse forces are gone like magic...because both magnets will be attracted to steel...and repulsion is no longer there.


Same thing that happens when you get two N52 Heavy Magnets by the same poles and both attracting a heavy piece of steel...they will not repel, but stick together sandwhiched between steel, and North to North...


By the way...in a CAD Program with animations, etc,etc...I could also build a "real running Lüling Motor"... ;D


Cheers




Ufopolitics

Offline nix85

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Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
« Reply #188 on: April 04, 2022, 01:26:44 AM »
Yildiz may not have taken his motor apart completely but i seen diagrams of supposed inner mechanism, it's multiple layers of magnets. Anyway, it is a real deal.

Yildiz, Perendev and Lüling may use different methods, but all are magnet-only motors, so they are closely related.

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The Motor I have presented on that video is about Neutralization of Magnetic Forces...without them, Motor will not run...

Anyone who has played with magnet motors knows that the only way that you could turn that rotor so smoothly with one finger (like Lüling does on video) is by first, neutralizing the magnetic forces.

Imagine, and sky is blue. Have we been talking about anything else but neutralization. Neutralization meaning passing the sticky point, even Luling uses the term.

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The only difference between my motor and Lüling is that He uses Attraction as the force to run motor, while braking (or turning OFF) neutralization with the Repulse side...And so, I do the opposite, I use Repulsion to power motor, and use Attraction to turn On-Off Neutralization.

I dont think what you did is even comparable to Luling, as you say you use repulsion + compressed air which he did not use.

In this paragraph you seem to agree he is using attraction to make rotor magnet fall to the steel and do work, but you seems to believe neutralization is turning OFF when magnet comes face to face with steel. Only God knows by which magic have you imagined magnet does not stick to steel if that is when neutralization is OFF instead of ON.

Your next paragraf also does not clearly convey what exactly you imagined...

Quote
That Arc of Steel that swivels back and forth, is in charge to turn OFF Neutralization at the repulsion side, which causes Attraction Forces to gain max levels, so when Steel Arc retracts, Neutralization is back ON...so attract side will not stick, but continues with the acceleration obtained when Neutralization was off...and again, that is just the way I believe (my take) on how Luling Motor turns Off Neutralization.

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Steel would never ¨repel¨any magnet...no matter what pole is facing...

Wrong. That is totally dependent on the thickness of steel and power and distance of the magnets. If steel is thin magnets WILL repel through it, in somewhat reduced degree. I tested this with N52 superstrong cylinder neodymiums some time ago, even through iron thick about 5mm repulsion is VERY strong, there is absolutely no way you will make it stick to iron where repelling neodymium is on the other side of it or even get it close to iron in that area...

So your basic premise is totally wrong, needless to say what proceeds from a flawed premise is most likely wrong too.

Also i did not necessarily imply magnets are behind the steel bar but rather in the front, the bottom part, or maybe covered with thin layer of steel.

He says it works by attraction, so it is pretty safe to assume work is done by magnet falling toward the steel bar, to me it is logical neutralization takes place by (unseen) repelling magnets at the moment rotor magnet is about to stick to steel. You apparently imagined something totally different, only God knows what cause you did not convey your idea clearly.

Quote
By the way...in a CAD Program with animations, etc,etc...I could also build a "real running Lüling Motor"... ;D

That video is totally irrelevant and not presented as an authority on the subject, i mainly shared it for the view of the rotor and stator.


Offline Ufopolitics

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Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
« Reply #189 on: April 04, 2022, 03:17:33 PM »
Yildiz may not have taken his motor apart completely but i seen diagrams of supposed inner mechanism, it's multiple layers of magnets. Anyway, it is a real deal.

Yildiz, Perendev and Lüling may use different methods, but all are magnet-only motors, so they are closely related.

And there are Unicorns in our Animal Kingdom...

Imagine, and sky is blue. Have we been talking about anything else but neutralization. Neutralization meaning passing the sticky point, even Luling uses the term.

Neutralization is not only about "passing the sticky point"...but also about passing the Repulsion Cogging Point...Should I remind you that Magnetism always has TWO Interactions, and NOT only one?...or just attraction?

I dont think what you did is even comparable to Luling, as you say you use repulsion + compressed air which he did not use.

Are you sure Lüling did NOT use pneumatics?...Please see my images sequence below...and still I had to reduce its resolution...as this site will not take 4K UHD.
So, all those aluminum lines, fittings and components are there just "for the looks"...and yes, "skies are blue..."

In this paragraph you seem to agree he is using attraction to make rotor magnet fall to the steel and do work, but you seems to believe neutralization is turning OFF when magnet comes face to face with steel. Only God knows by which magic have you imagined magnet does not stick to steel if that is when neutralization is OFF instead of ON.

Your next paragraf also does not clearly convey what exactly you imagined...

When Two magnets are IN REPULSION, face to face, and you get a THICK (not just a lamination) about equivalent to their thickness embodiment, without touching them physically, just SURROUNDING their REPULSE AIR GAP...Repulsion Forces are turned OFF like a "switch"...You no longer feel any COGGING, but a slight Attraction.

And this brakes (Turns OFF) Neutralization IN A STABILIZED, NEUTRALIZED SYSTEM, releasing Attract Forces to Max at 180º apart.

This fact does NOT applies to Attraction.

That is how Lüling Magnet Motor works.


Is this too hard to understand?

Wrong. That is totally dependent on the thickness of steel and power and distance of the magnets. If steel is thin magnets WILL repel through it, in somewhat reduced degree. I tested this with N52 superstrong cylinder neodymiums some time ago, even through iron thick about 5mm repulsion is VERY strong, there is absolutely no way you will make it stick to iron where repelling neodymium is on the other side of it or even get it close to iron in that area...

So your basic premise is totally wrong, needless to say what proceeds from a flawed premise is most likely wrong too.

I never said "thin steel plate"...that is so obvious!!...a thin plate would not do niente!! ...I said perfectly clear, a Thick, large piece of steel Arc

Also i did not necessarily imply magnets are behind the steel bar but rather in the front, the bottom part, or maybe covered with thin layer of steel.

Now is you considering a thin piece of steel...what?...shunting magnets?...LOL

He says it works by attraction, so it is pretty safe to assume work is done by magnet falling toward the steel bar, to me it is logical neutralization takes place by (unseen) repelling magnets at the moment rotor magnet is about to stick to steel. You apparently imagined something totally different, only God knows what cause you did not convey your idea clearly.

So, you are believing that Lüling works based on Steel RAMPS generating the Attraction?...and some "unseen repulse magnets" come out of your blue skies...
And so, maybe Lüling was pushing those "unseen repulse magnets" with his left hand, while motor was running...I mean, we only see his right hand moving the lever...so it could be... ;D

That video is totally irrelevant and not presented as an authority on the subject, i mainly shared it for the view of the rotor and stator.

Maybe you need to watch the whole video again, in your big screen TV...but this time  Lüling in 4K UHD...same 1966 video...taken from the original 35mm slides that thanks to Semi, who got them (and PAID $$ for them) from Bundes Archives in Germany...I did all the color balances, Gamma corrections, etc,etc...and put them in a full film...

Also, You may want to see the replication that Manfred Klug (Germany) did on his Lüling Magnetmotor Rep #10 ...and  so, I wonder ¨how come¨, I am not the only one who believes Lüling works on Pneumatics ¿!? ...It is just unfortunate that Klug did not considered Neutralization on his build...as he only uses Magnet to a Steel Rotor Attraction, which is very much weaker than magnet to magnet attraction...
Resulting that Manfred Klug only gets like 30 RPM's...while I reach 415 RPM's... 8);D






Ciao






Ufopolitics

Offline nix85

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Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
« Reply #190 on: April 04, 2022, 06:50:46 PM »
And there are Unicorns in our Animal Kingdom...

Point is you are needlessly saying obvious things.

Quote
Neutralization is not only about "passing the sticky point"...but also about passing the Repulsion Cogging Point...Should I remind you that Magnetism always has TWO Interactions, and NOT only one?...or just attraction?

Sticky point is a general term in magnet only motors for point where rotation is blocked, due to attraction or repulsion. For example in video i linked, there is a REPELLING "sticky point" or call it "repelling point" if you want to nit pick about useless semantics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovPQ5dMy7GQ

Quote
Are you sure Lüling did NOT use pneumatics?...Please see my images sequence below...and still I had to reduce its resolution...as this site will not take 4K UHD.
So, all those aluminum lines, fittings and components are there just "for the looks"...and yes, "skies are blue..."

I don't think he did for a simple reason it is not needed.

Quote
When Two magnets are IN REPULSION, face to face, and you get a THICK (not just a lamination) about equivalent to their thickness embodiment, without touching them physically, just SURROUNDING their REPULSE AIR GAP...Repulsion Forces are turned OFF like a "switch"...You no longer feel any COGGING, but a slight Attraction.

Of course you can neutralize the attraction by putting a thick enough piece of iron between two repelling magnets. If there is "slight attraction" or not, again, depends on thickness of the iron, distance from the magnets and their strength.

Quote
And this brakes (Turns OFF) Neutralization IN A STABILIZED, NEUTRALIZED SYSTEM, releasing Attract Forces to Max at 180º apart.

You repeat the obvious fact that thick enough piece of iron can neturalize the repulsion of magnets, (not to get into the fact that in this scenario, as rotating magnet leaves, the iron "shield" is now strongly attracted to the remaining magnet and it takes work to move it back to original position so cycle can repeat...). And how does that incorporate into the video, we can see rotor is attracted toward (presumably) stator steel bar, they are not repelling (at least until they come face to face). At the same time you ironically mock the idea of hidden repelling magnets in the steel bar, yet this is apparently exactly what you suggest...

You so far did not express your theory in a clear, non-contradictory way.

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This fact does NOT applies to Attraction.

LOL, IMAGINE, iron between attracting magnets does not shield the attraction...WHO WOULD SAY.

Quote
That is how Lüling Magnet Motor works.

LOL

Quote
Is this too hard to understand?

If you were capable of expressing yourself in intelligent, clear manner, maybe someone would be able to understand what kind of mess you imagined.

Quote
I never said "thin steel plate"...that is so obvious!!...a thin plate would not do niente!! ...I said perfectly clear, a Thick, large piece of steel Arc

Now is you considering a thin piece of steel...what?...shunting magnets?...LOL

LOL, first of all, i was just stating the fact that with varying thickness of iron (and distance) can be achieved either partial repulsion, total neutralization of repulsion or attraction (small to big).

Quote
So, you are believing that Lüling works based on Steel RAMPS generating the Attraction?...and some "unseen repulse magnets" come out of your blue skies...
And so, maybe Lüling was pushing those "unseen repulse magnets" with his left hand, while motor was running...I mean, we only see his right hand moving the lever...so it could be... ;D

Maybe you need to watch the whole video again, in your big screen TV...but this time  Lüling in 4K UHD...same 1966 video...taken from the original 35mm slides that thanks to Semi, who got them (and PAID $$ for them) from Bundes Archives in Germany...I did all the color balances, Gamma corrections, etc,etc...and put them in a full film...

Also, You may want to see the replication that Manfred Klug (Germany) did on his Lüling Magnetmotor Rep #10 ...and  so, I wonder ¨how come¨, I am not the only one who believes Lüling works on Pneumatics ¿!? ...It is just unfortunate that Klug did not considered Neutralization on his build...as he only uses Magnet to a Steel Rotor Attraction, which is very much weaker than magnet to magnet attraction...
Resulting that Manfred Klug only gets like 30 RPM's...while I reach 415 RPM's... 8);D
Ufopolitics
Ciao

Stupid sarcasm and emojis aside...

I unlike you, said clearly what i think.

Listening to Luling again he clearly says "the rotating armature will be attracted from (by) the magnetic system". According to these words it sounds like rotor is NOT a magnet but steel attracted to magnets in the stator. If this were true it leaves out the possibility of repulsion and that makes things much harder. If we ignore these words and continue with the assumption that rotor IS a magnet...

We can see it is falling toward what is presumably a steel bar and as it approaches the steel bar, spring releases the steel bar and it comes faces to face with the magnet. As i said before, clearly for rotor to continue spinning this is where neutralization must be ON (not OFF as you say) and only way this attraction can be neutralized is by repelling magnets, presumably in the bottom part of the oscillating steel bar or maybe in the central part positioned in such a way that rotor magnet does not "see" the repulsion until the very moment it comes face to face with the steel bar (and the hidden magnets).
« Last Edit: April 04, 2022, 09:23:28 PM by nix85 »

Offline Ufopolitics

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Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
« Reply #191 on: April 04, 2022, 07:35:07 PM »
@Nix85


I am sorry, but I will not keep arguing with you here...I have to keep working on my builds...
But, you have your ideas then why don't you put them all together on a build?...then load your video so we could all see it running.


I already did mine...


Hope you do the same, build it and put all your assumptions in a real build...


It is the best way to know if they work or not.




Take care




Ufopolitics

Online citfta

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Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
« Reply #192 on: April 04, 2022, 07:52:20 PM »
Hey UFO,


You are wasting your time with this clown.  He is the resident know-it-all that is always putting down what others are doing while he has done NOTHING.  I have been following closely your other thread but not commenting because I don't have anything useful to add and I am certainly not going to criticize someone who is actually building while I am not.


Keep up the great efforts and take care.


Later,
Carroll

Offline nix85

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Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
« Reply #193 on: April 04, 2022, 08:34:06 PM »
I am sorry, but look at your sarcasm and emojis, who's been arguing.

Anyway, it's kinda sad you wasted all this space and time and you never managed to convey clearly, non-contradictory how exactly you imagined it.

Ofc you pulled the i built it you didn't card, but what you built can not even be compared to Luling motor.

BTW i've been building stuff for years and would love to build Luling, but am at the moment focused on solid state stuff. If i had extra funds and time i assure you i would solve this one quickly.

Take care,

Nix

Offline nix85

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Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
« Reply #194 on: April 04, 2022, 08:44:22 PM »
As for this jester, i see he saw little dispute as an excuse to unleash his frustrations cause i exposed his ignorance on another thread. As for his accusation that i am putting others down, i do not, may point out if something is wrong just as commend if it is right, as for "built nothing"...my my, if he only knew.