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Author Topic: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor  (Read 101844 times)

Offline ramset

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Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
« Reply #195 on: April 04, 2022, 08:47:05 PM »
Sir Nix
Based on your Utube evidence of “ _successful _ magnet motors ( your low power examples ?) “


Your input is much more than questionable !
 any truly self running “magnet only motor “ would
Be world changing , regardless it’s usability!!
Magnets shown doing work ??



Perhaps you are not an open source fellow who shares his work ?


No doubt you do look to make trouble !


Edit for comment below


Sorry to read that ….if you were not so condescending and arrogant, I would ask
You to prove that claim !


But since you do not open source your work
And proportionately your interactions are mostly
Combative?


Your more a fire starter than a true helper !!

































Offline nix85

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Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
« Reply #196 on: April 04, 2022, 08:54:37 PM »
I am not trouble, i just may have little patience for time wasters.

As for the videos...

(i removed the first one to leave just the magnet-only ones)

Take the first one, my favorite, at any moment circa 6 magnets want to go (up the slope) and 1 or 2 wanna stick. Since base is probably iron too, overall effect is continuous motion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Me0s25_Xbnc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkcFRLQiVGk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K73R6dMJRCI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYLF9UJDbkU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIvZJ9xGutI

You may not believe in these, but i believe all these are real.

Offline nix85

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Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
« Reply #197 on: April 04, 2022, 09:25:50 PM »
"condescending and arrogant"

Ok, think what you like. Like i said, i may be bit impatient with people when they appear to waste my time, that's all.

Offline nix85

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Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
« Reply #198 on: April 04, 2022, 11:42:44 PM »
"Your more a fire starter than a true helper !!"

Not to mention the ungratefulness.

I proposed a theory that is clear and makes sense, unlike some others here.

I posed some key questions, is rotor even a magnet or not, if yes, is it polarized along the long axis... The guy you presumably think was a true helper on the other hand gave theory which is totally unclear and contradictory, did not posit these key questions.....when i approach any issue i go to the root of roots, absolute thoroughness is the ONLY way, be it mechanical or solid state approach.

Shared number of videos of related devices that work.

...Nevermind



Offline Semi

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Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
« Reply #199 on: April 05, 2022, 11:56:48 AM »
Hey Guys,

thank you for taking the findings we've found and published to account.
With we, I mean Ufo and me.

We are almost having to remind our selves all the time, that we are again trying to display our assumptions as facts we think we know.
We are even trying to consider the possibility of optical illusions or rather effects that can take place from or within the footage. Like the wagon wheel effect.
And backed up with some sort of Benchmark of Details we can find, the level of "most likely" arises.

I really would like to have this kind of discussion about details from the Footage, within the Secrets of Lüling thread. Then can I update and add details
to that page and it will grow over time.

The question If Mr. Lüling was using Magnets on or within its Armature, definitely has its place to be asked. We did the same, many times, but so far I can't
find any evidence that backs this up. So for now, I would say No. Neither the shown motion nor the mechanical details we can see, shows any sign of a Magnet
that rotates with the Armature. If someone finds anything that proves me wrong, I am happy to update those findings.

Regarding the way of Neutralization, I like to call it that we are lost in definitions. For my understandings, Ufos definition describes it as extrinsic, while
Mr. Lüling describes it as intrinsic.

And btw: Mr. Lüling never claimed that he has built an OU device. Only that its rotation is caused by Magnets, instead of Gasoline ignition.

@Ufo,
I am thinking of this for quite some time...
Compared to an ICE, like in a car, If I shift the first gear, and the rpm goes down, I put the pedal down, and the rpm goes up.
If I maintain this, it will keep my speed and rpm up. This is more or less done by changing the amount of Gas and Oxygen that ignites.
How do you maintain the speed, or rather the rpm? How do you change the amount of Gas and Oxygen? And what is your Gas and Oxygen?

What happens with your motion if you leave the outer repulsion side out? I've noticed on a test rig, the way how you pull the attraction side away,
will give the rotor a different push.

Regards
Semi



Offline nix85

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Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
« Reply #200 on: April 05, 2022, 03:28:59 PM »
If rotor is not a magnet, i would love to hear a SENSIBLE theory of exactly what is happening. How is it prevented from sticking.

Proceeding with the assumption rotor is a magnet..

If we look at https://youtu.be/WT_UIpbFKc0?t=31 as rotor spins toward the camera, opposite to working direction, and the part that goes back n forth in work direction is stationary, it moves smoothly, apparently without slightest cogging. Obviously, whatever forces present are balanced.

One possible explanation is that rotor is attracted to the stationary plate with square hole, let's call it the U plate, and the oscillating block, let's just call it the block, behind is a repelling magnet, perfectly neutralizing the attraction.

In work direction, the  block is moved back and rotor is attracted to the U plate and when it's just about to stick the block is released, neutralizing the attraction and rotor moves forward without cogging.

The issue with this is that the block would stick to U bar and system would not be efficient.

However this can be easily solved by widening the hole in the U bar and shortening the block, so rotor is attracted to the U bar on the sides, far from the center, and is repelled by the block in the center, so when block moves away after neutralizing the attraction it hardly sees the U bar at all.

Also important note that U plate is covering another metal block, maybe solid or hollow, may be ferromagnetic or not. Many maybes. That is why in my opinion is better to take from it what makes most sense to you are the principles used, but not copy it literally.

Offline Semi

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Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
« Reply #201 on: April 05, 2022, 04:00:09 PM »
Thank you for your quick feedback.

May I ask what makes you assume the rotor is a Magnet? Or has a Magnet?
Did you see something that hints to it? Maybe you can point me to some frames?

In Frame 1892 I named some parts to identify them.
What is the Magnet or rather the Magnet-System?

I did some testings regarding the Magnet system. And it seems that the two outer Blocks are Magnets.
The middle one could be iron. If the two arcs are covering top and bottom of these Blocks, the armature can pass.
If one is open or rather swung away, it attracts the armature.

This is also backed up with Frame 2537. Where you can see that an Arc without Arm is put on Top of the Blocks to have this
side's Magnet System neutral at all times. The actually Arc that is usually in charge of doing so, is parked away, which can be seen as
well, in the same Frame, and Frame 0655.
Without the arm was necessary, so that the Camera can look through but keep the Motor able to operate.

Ufo had the thought, that with these two arcs per Magnet System, one could change the direction of the rotation.
Which sounds reasonable to me.

Offline Ufopolitics

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Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
« Reply #202 on: April 05, 2022, 04:25:30 PM »
@Ufo,
I am thinking of this for quite some time...
Compared to an ICE, like in a car, If I shift the first gear, and the rpm goes down, I put the pedal down, and the rpm goes up.
If I maintain this, it will keep my speed and rpm up. This is more or less done by changing the amount of Gas and Oxygen that ignites.
How do you maintain the speed, or rather the rpm? How do you change the amount of Gas and Oxygen? And what is your Gas and Oxygen?


Hello Semi,


The Air Pressure regulation is your "accelerator" (in my model, my concept though)
When Air pressure lowers, the Piston does not fully strokes outwards, hence, the air gap is not spread to a maximum, so, speed decreases.


And so, in just a mechanical setup (no pneumatics), it bolts down to the Air Gap of your Neutralization switching side, whether it is Attract or Repulse side.


Of course, in more advanced models, we could also adjust the Stationary side Air Gap, and by widening it (in either sides) the speed will come down.

What happens with your motion if you leave the outer repulsion side out? I've noticed on a test rig, the way how you pull the attraction side away,
will give the rotor a different push.

Regards
Semi


In my setup, the Repulse side is the Force side to propulse Rotor...if I take off Stator side Repulse magnet, Neutralization is gone...and so the attract side, with two Neo's 52 grade at close gap, will stick so much, that I do not think, even the 65 Newton Force of air piston, would separate them.

This is all about Geometry, Semi...all magnets or electromagnets have an Imaginary Bisector line that crosses between both poles, perpendicular to Bloch Wall, right at the center of magnet embodiment, and so this line will serve as your "timing" line, as it also dictates the Rotation sense.


This Bisector Line is also applicable for PM or Universal DC electric motors timing setup.


If this line between magnets in the Rotor versus Stator is fully aligned into a straight line...when you separate attraction, it could fire in either direction, randomly...so, to prevent this, Rotor Bisector Line must be aligned passing the Stator line towards the direction of rotation desired...just one to two degrees will do it.


And so, also adding to your previous question of how to accelerate or keep steady this motor, this Angular settings between Rotor Bisector line versus Stator Bisector Line will also contribute to Motor Force...or the wider this Angle, the slower and less force motor will have...the closest the two angles, like 1 or 2 degrees...will add a Higher Torque that will develop in higher speeds.


However, varying this angle, while motor is running, will require some clever mechanical build on the Stator Magnets Base.


Air Pressure regulation being much easier to apply while running, and conveying the same results.




Hope this answers your questions.




Regards Friend






Ufopolitics

Offline nix85

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Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
« Reply #203 on: April 05, 2022, 04:30:06 PM »
You are using different terminology so it's hard to understand what exactly you mean by arcs, by outer blocks (i assume you mean middle plate to the left and right from the central hole but maybe you dont)... It's next to impossible to understand each other like this. We must use exactly the same terminology. Can we for sake of simplicity keep calling the middle plate U plate and oscillating block just the block.

Now, if rotor is not a magnet how come it passes so effortlessly by the stationary U plate and the block, without any cogging.

Clearly, if rotor is steel and either U plate or the block are magnetic, rotor would stick, but it does not...

You seem to suggest flux is diverted and you presumably mean this is done in work direction. How exactly did you imagine this, as i said before whatever you use to divert the flux becomes a new sticky point (more on that below).

But before all i'd like you to explain why rotor does not stick in first 3 rotations linked above.

Now, this is definitely not how Luling did it but it's worth mentioning and i already mentioned this on another thread. How to shield the magnetic field without sticking. By using block which is made of finely adjusted array of same pole magnets forced together on iron plate of proper thickness.

Say you want to shield attraction without sticking since you suggest rotor is not a magnet...

This has to be made so precisely so that when this shield is put in exact middle between the stator magnet and rotor steel, the repulsion of the magnets of the shield facing the stator magnet is perfectly neutralized by the thickness of the iron in front or behind these magnets, so shield can be inserted or removed effortlessly.

Basically imagine few hundred small neodymium blocks all forced together in an iron sleeve of proper thickness, adjusted so that at certain distance it can totally shutter the stator magnet with minimum investment of energy.

This is one clever design that is delicate to make but would solve the issue. However there is no evidence Luling used this type of shield.

Something along the similar lines but not too close

https://youtu.be/QGKGoXD8P5A?list=PLS6CmWwu5VGmYsgX5-2kFtPsE-iIsXj_o&t=344

Offline Semi

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Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
« Reply #204 on: April 05, 2022, 04:53:04 PM »
You are using different terminology so it's hard to understand what exactly you mean by arcs, by outer blocks (i assume you mean middle plate to the left and right from the central hole but maybe you dont)... It's next to impossible to understand each other like this. We must use exactly the same terminology.
Yes this is soo true. That is why I named the parts in my Frame pics.

Can we for sake of simplicity keep calling the middle plate U plate and oscillating block just the block.
To be honest, I can't even follow you what you mean by U-Plate.

Now, if rotor is not a magnet how come it passes so effortlessly by the stationary U plate and the block, without any cogging.
Clearly, if rotor is steel and either U plate or the block are magnetic, rotor would stick, but it does not...
What makes you think this? In fact, on my testings the Iron bar dropped as soon as I put the upper bar on top.
It was still attached, but it was totally separated with a very light touch. So I would guess, it is a bit like Ufos rig.
In every resolution the Magnets will stick or rather cog, but the momentum will be enough to push it further through.
And in "real time" you won't notice it, as soon as it starts spinning.

The Air Pressure regulation is your "accelerator" (in my model, my concept though)
When Air pressure lowers, the Piston does not fully strokes outwards, hence, the air gap is not spread to a maximum, so, speed decreases.
And so, in just a mechanical setup (no pneumatics), it bolts down to the Air Gap of your Neutralization switching side, whether it is Attract or Repulse side.
I have noticed the speed on how fast you are pulling it away, matters as well.
So this actually means, that an Air Flow Regulation to the stroking piston would be the Gas Pedal. Mechanical factors like Air Gap etc. are fixed.

This is all about Geometry, Semi...all magnets or electromagnets have an Imaginary Bisector line that crosses between both poles, perpendicular to Bloch Wall, right at the center of magnet embodiment, and so this line will serve as your "timing" line, as it also dictates the Rotation sense.
Ok so even by leaving the repulsion side out, the back stroke will cause a rotation, but its direction is undefined. Got it.

Offline nix85

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Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
« Reply #205 on: April 05, 2022, 04:57:43 PM »
Yes this is soo true. That is why I named the parts in my Frame pics.
To be honest, I can't even follow you what you mean by U-Plate.

I mean the plate with square hole in the middle between rotor and oscillating bar.

Quote
What makes you think this? In fact, on my testings the Iron bar dropped as soon as I put the upper bar on top.
It was still attached, but it was totally separated with a very light touch. So I would guess, it is a bit like Ufos rig.

I have not seen your test so i have no idea what exactly you mean.

You will best answer my question if you say, which part of the stator is in your opinion a magnet and how come rotor does not stick to it as it glides by it totally effortlessly during 3 turns (linked with timing above).


Offline Ufopolitics

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Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
« Reply #206 on: April 05, 2022, 04:59:48 PM »
Ok so even by leaving the repulsion side out, the back stroke will cause a rotation, but its direction is undefined. Got it.


No, Semi, I edited my answer...


If you take off the repulsion side at stator...Neutralization is gone, so the attraction side increases to max values, I doubt there would be enough force on Piston to separate those two magnets at the gap it does when repulsion stator side is present.


I have not done that test ...however, I know how it works if even the repulse side air gap is spread too much...




Regards




Ufopolitics

Offline Semi

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Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
« Reply #207 on: April 05, 2022, 05:22:53 PM »

No, Semi, I edited my answer...
If you take off the repulsion side at stator...Neutralization is gone, so the attraction side increases to max values, I doubt there would be enough force on Piston to separate those two magnets at the gap it does when repulsion stator side is present.
I have not done that test ...however, I know how it works if even the repulse side air gap is spread too much...
Yeah I know, this is not about having your rig running with the Neutralisation gone. I've just observed that behaviour on my
test rig, and I was wondering how yours would act. If you find the time to test this, would be nice to know.

I mean the plate with square hole in the middle between rotor and oscillating bar.

I have not seen your test so i have no idea what exactly you mean.

You will best answer my question if you say, which part of the stator is in your opinion a magnet and how come rotor does not stick to it as it glides by it totally effortlessly during 3 turns (linked with timing above).
True I am sorry. I need to put those pics on that page as well.

Using my Terms from the Frame 1892
https://s-em-i.github.io/s-em-i.github.io-SecretsOfLueling/Frames/1892.jpeg
https://s-em-i.github.io/s-em-i.github.io-SecretsOfLueling/Frames/1892_Marked.jpeg

It seems most likely to me that the 1st and 3rd Block are the Magnets.

And as you can see in your linked Video, the upper and lower arc are resting on these blocks. So the armature can pass.
This is Mr. Lülings neutralised stage as I conclude.
It feels like I am repeating my self. You can PM me, so we don't litter this thread too much.

Offline nix85

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Re: Friedrich Luling Magnet Motor
« Reply #208 on: April 05, 2022, 05:38:25 PM »
True I am sorry. I need to put those pics on that page as well.

Using my Terms from the Frame 1892
https://s-em-i.github.io/s-em-i.github.io-SecretsOfLueling/Frames/1892.jpeg
https://s-em-i.github.io/s-em-i.github.io-SecretsOfLueling/Frames/1892_Marked.jpeg

It seems most likely to me that the 1st and 3rd Block are the Magnets.

And as you can see in your linked Video, the upper and lower arc are resting on these blocks. So the armature can pass.
This is Mr. Lülings neutralised stage as I conclude.
It feels like I am repeating my self. You can PM me, so we don't litter this thread too much.

It's ok, i seen that marked frame. But don't you see what you call first and third block are but parts of one plate with square hole in the center. But let's say 1st and 3rd block are magnets as you say. Ok, so rotor is attracted to these blocks.

Yea swinging ARC is resting on the "blocks", and how do you u imagine the neutralization here?