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## Discussion board help and admin topics => Half Baked Ideas => Topic started by: EOW on July 03, 2015, 02:36:02 PM

Post by: EOW on July 03, 2015, 02:36:02 PM
The idea is to used charged plates and never discharged them. With charged plates I can charge another plates. The composant C allow to recover energy when the current move between plates. The switch 'I' can close the circuit.

First image: all plates are charged and are very far away from each others. The system has a potential energy = 'E'.
Second image: I approach charged plates to electronic components
Third image: I close switch I => current move between new plates. C recover an energy '1/2E'.
Forth image: I move far away charged plates like image shows => I need the energy 'E'
Fifth image: I move far away new charged plates from each other. I recover energy 'e'
Sixth image: I discharge capacitors inside C. I recover E/2
Repeat cycle.

At final I recover 'e'.
Post by: EOW on July 03, 2015, 04:30:53 PM
For prevent charges to move more and more closer when the plate is moving, it's possible to use a grid (red lines).
Post by: ATOM1 on July 03, 2015, 11:07:43 PM
Not much surface area ? R the plates going to move ?? I can help you with platinum coated plats ect

ATOM1
Post by: EOW on July 04, 2015, 06:06:15 PM
It's possible to do the same cycle but charge all capacitors with an external power source. Here I win at least the power source.

It's possible to use another method. Use a capacitor with 3 spheric conductors. The charge is not +Q, -2Q, +Q under the same voltage but +Q, -Q, +Q and I can transfert some negative charges from -Q to +Q * 2, I lost them ok but like that I can have no force for separate spheres. I need to have +0.57Q, -0.14Q, +0.57Q (around) and like that I can separate the spheres. Sure, I lost a small energy from the power source but I recover more because the voltage are increasing very high.
Look at 4 steps below. For that I need 2 capacitors, one  +0.57Q, -0.14Q, +0.57Q  and the other  -0.57Q , +0.14Q, -0.57Q.

Attraction = 0.14 * 0.57 * 4 = 0.3192
Repulsion = 0.57*0.57 = 0.3249

So it's possible to move away charges without any energy. Sure, move away at the same time right charge and left charge.
Post by: EOW on July 05, 2015, 10:24:35 AM
For have exact values for the 3 spheres capacitors:

I named q1', q2', q3' the charges of the capacitor at start before change charges. q2' is central.
I named q1, q2, q3 the charges of the capacitor after transfert

I have:

q1'=1
q2'=1 (I worked on absolute value I place signed after)

I want q2=q1/4 for cancel all forces.

But if I transfert charges from one sphere to another I need to have:

q1=q1'-x=1-x
q2=q2'-2x=1-2x (because central sphere must cancel charges from q1' and q2')

So:

1-2x = (1-x)/4 => x=3/7

q1=4/7=0.571
q2=1/7=0.1428 with the sign q2=-1/7=-0.1428

The force is :

F=K*(4/7q*4/7q/(4d²)-1/7q*4/7q/d²) = Kq²/d²*(4/49-4/49)  = 0
Post by: EOW on July 05, 2015, 05:34:08 PM
For plate capacitor, the middle plate must be in three parts like drawing.

Post by: EOW on July 06, 2015, 09:59:48 AM
I can use the power from a source for harge the capacitor. The middle plate must be like I drawn (first image): insulator must prevent charges to move inside the middle plate. The electric field from P1/P2 must be separate from P3/P4 like that I need the same energy for separate the middle plate than 2 capacitors separate.

Step1 : charge the capacitor (it's like charge 2 capacitors far away), second image
Step2 : Move far away the middle plate, third image
Step3 : Move far away P1 and P4 and move far away P2 from P3: recover energy, forth image
Step4 : Recover the energy from plates P1/P2 and P3/P4 like new capacitor, fifth image
Step5 : Replace all plates, this need 0 energy because there is no charge on the plates

I gave the energy for charge 2 capacitors (like there are separate in space). I need the energy for move away 2 plates of 2 separate capacitors. I recover the electric energy from capacitor. => The sum of these energies = 0
But I recover the energy for separate P1/P4 and P2/P3

Repeat the cycle.

Maybe it's necessary to have a bigger central iron like the last image shows.