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Author Topic: Basic Free Energy Device  (Read 29575 times)

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Basic Free Energy Device
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2015, 05:51:25 PM »
Forgive me if this is a foolish question, but I ask if this project can be based on capacitors instead of batteries.

I makes state of charge assessments straightforward.
Yes, I have seen this type of thing using capacitors instead of batteries.
but discharge times are shortened drastically. Super-caps may be an option, they have a much slower discharge.

the important factor is the perspective of the stored charges, not so much in how we store them.


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Re: Basic Free Energy Device
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2015, 05:51:25 PM »

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Basic Free Energy Device
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2015, 07:29:09 PM »
Forgive me if this is a foolish question, but I ask if this project can be based on capacitors instead of batteries.

I makes state of charge assessments straightforward.

That is a good idea Paul.  I doubt that this fellow will take your suggestion however as it appears he left in a huff after I made a polite suggestion to try self-looping.  On any device, if there is more out than in, self-looping would be possible and end all discussion.  He evidently does not want to do that and I suspect that I know why.

The super cap idea would certainly be better than using batteries for sure.  I have found that super caps seem to like the high spikes that devices like this put out and I think they store them more efficiently than does a battery.

Bill

Offline shylo

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Re: Basic Free Energy Device
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2015, 07:31:33 PM »
I've used cordless drill batteries , I've used LAB's, I've used super caps , no matter ,the run times are definitely longer.
I just wish I knew how Tinman was running his latest so I could use it with the 3BGS.
It's so simple to set-up give it a try.
artv   

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Re: Basic Free Energy Device
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2015, 07:31:33 PM »
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Offline Spirit

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Re: Basic Free Energy Device
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2015, 12:38:29 AM »
Dbowling, can you please provide a better schematic?
 

Offline Spirit

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Re: Basic Free Energy Device
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2015, 09:07:15 AM »
or at least can someone post the schematic he's talking about please!?
using the parts he's talking about..

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Re: Basic Free Energy Device
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2015, 09:07:15 AM »
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Offline Dbowling

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Re: Basic Free Energy Device
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2015, 12:15:58 PM »
spirit,
I already posted the schematic at the end of the video, but it is attached. The boost circuit can be found here http://www.ebay.com/itm/171151982059?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT  NOTICE there is NO connection to the Ground Out on the Boost circuit. That is correct.


Bill,
Can you connect the output of a generator to the motor running it and loop the system? That is what you are asking me to do here, and it won't work here either. So for the THIRD TIME, this device is comprised of TWO SEPARATE circuits.
One is the generator circuit....and do as you will with the output of THAT.
The other is the circuit that runs the motor. It requires (for now) batteries. If those batteries are connected as I suggest, and rotated as I suggest, the system (or at least for the purposes of demonstrating that this is for REAL) is self sustaining. The batteries, as they are rotated, begin to slightly increase in charge. Now, I have NO DOUBT, that with continued use over a long period of time the batteries WILL drop off a little in charge, at which point you WOULD need to tap some of the generated output to top them off. But that would require a more complex circuit, as would automatic switching of the batteries. In fact, if you want to get "real" about this setup, you need THREE sets of two batteries, because the batteries that have just been charged need to rest.


But I brought to this forum the most simple example I possibly could of this circuit that costs the LEAST amount of money to replicate in the hopes that many folks would become interested and replicate the thing. I have on my bench a setup that has a 12 coil generator run by a razor scooter motor (Not a stock motor as I suggested here, but a modified pulse motor that I rewound) that I have spent over $2,000.00 developing, and it needs to be rebuilt yet again to address the last of the issues I have been attempting to solve in order to build the most efficient system possible, and it will run on this circuit with the modifications I talked about....automatic switching and topping off the batteries. In fact, the thing is so big and the magnetic lock between the magnets and coil cores is so great, that additional circuitry had to be designed to run it as a motor until it is up to speed and the pulse motor can take over, and then it switches to the generator mode. But I didn't bring THAT monster to this forum. I brought the simple device that anyone can build for proof of concept. Or they can save the $3.53 plus shipping that a boost module will cost them and miss out on the opportunity to learn a few things about running loads on the potential difference like Tesla showed us with the Tesla switch, which is basically what this is. This works. Whether YOU choose to believe it or not really doesn't matter. SOME people will, and they will build it.
Already folks are replicating it and having success...http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/19774-basic-free-energy-device-24.html
So the train is leaving the station. Get aboard or don't. Your choice. There will be another one along later, so you can always jump aboard then.


I apologize for seeming so abrupt. I get tired of arguing about this stuff because I have a working model on my bench and the people who argue with me never do. They never bother to build and put their OWN meters on it before dismissing what I am trying to show them. Just so you know, a well built Tesla switch (at least the one in the Benitez patents) will demonstrate a COP>6 or GREATER, but eventually the batteries begin to lose a little. With the addition of a small solar panel to keep the batteries topped off on sunny days, they can be made to run a hell of a long time and provide usable power. The problem is, to get the power output up where you can run....say a house, the cost for batteries is way beyond what most researchers are going to spend. I just spent $1,500 for eight 250 amp hour deep cycle 6 volt batteries to use in my testing, and would need to spend probably 5 or 6 times that to produce the power to run a house, and then how long will those batteries last? Who is going to spend THAT kind of money? In my opinion, THIS setup is better.

Offline Hoppy

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Re: Basic Free Energy Device
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2015, 03:33:31 PM »

The problem is, to get the power output up where you can run....say a house, the cost for batteries is way beyond what most researchers are going to spend. I just spent $1,500 for eight 250 amp hour deep cycle 6 volt batteries to use in my testing, and would need to spend probably 5 or 6 times that to produce the power to run a house, and then how long will those batteries last? Who is going to spend THAT kind of money? In my opinion, THIS setup is better.

Yes, batteries are expensive and need to be maintained in good condition and I'm not sure that your system will in the medium to long term allow the batteries to remain in good condition. Time will tell for those that embark on this project. Thanks again for giving us a detailed update of your progress.

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Re: Basic Free Energy Device
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2015, 03:33:31 PM »
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Offline Dbowling

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Re: Basic Free Energy Device
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2015, 08:19:56 PM »
I'm doing extended runs right now to try and determine the long term effects on the batteries. I only have four batteries, (I need my new 6 volt batteries to run my big generator for experiments on it, so they are not available for testing here) so using 230 CCA lawn and garden batteries that are old, old, old, so I do not have the opportunity to charge a set and switch in a new set while the charged set rests. . Therefore I am letting the batteries rest for one hour between runs as I switch them in position. After each 30 minute run, and after rest, I measure each battery with the Cen-Tech digital battery analyzer, recording the standing voltage, resistance, CCA value and battery capacity. Then I switch the two in series to parallel and the two in parallel to series and run it for another 30 minutes. I call this two stage process a "Cycle" since the two sets have each been in both positions (providing power to the circuit or being charged by the circuit) I am currently on the 5th cycle and hope to get one more completed before leaving town in the morning. I will be gone for a week. I will continue the process when I return and complete cycles until my Analyzer shows either that the batteries are no longer usable, or that they have reached their max capacity and max charge. Just so you know, the volt meter was showing these batteries to be down around 12.3-12.5 range when I began this and I did NOT charge the batteries up to max with the charger. I figured either this would support my belief or show I have lost it. I CONTINUE to power a second motor as a generator with a load on it that is a 12 volt fan pulling .45 amps.


Since the runs are each 30 minutes long and two runs make a cycle. Five cycles is five hours.
I have run a 12 volt fan pulling .45 amps for 5 hours. which requires 27 watts of output
I have run a razor scooter motor turning a generator at 12 volts pulling 4 amps for five hours, which requires 240 watts
So far I have pulled 267 watts of power from this system. By no means is that close to what is available in the batteries

Offline Hoppy

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Re: Basic Free Energy Device
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2015, 09:40:48 PM »

Since the runs are each 30 minutes long and two runs make a cycle. Five cycles is five hours.
I have run a 12 volt fan pulling .45 amps for 5 hours. which requires 27 watts of output
I have run a razor scooter motor turning a generator at 12 volts pulling 4 amps for five hours, which requires 240 watts
So far I have pulled 267 watts of power from this system. By no means is that close to what is available in the batteries

David,

A power consumption test of this type requires careful current and voltage monitoring for accuracy. Are you actually drawing a constant 0.45 amps over the full 5 hours and how is the supplied voltage to the motor varying?

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Re: Basic Free Energy Device
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2015, 09:40:48 PM »
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Offline Dbowling

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Re: Basic Free Energy Device
« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2015, 10:43:11 PM »
I have an amp gauge and a clamp on amp meter. I have used both. I have several volt meters. I do not sit there and watch the batteries for the entire 30 minutes of the run, but I do check them every few minutes. You are correct in that there are fluctuations in the amp draw reading. I am trying to be conservative in stating that it is drawing .45 amps. I believe it is probably drawing higher, but 4.5 is the LOW I have seen so far during my checks of the meter. The voltage seems consistent at 12+ volts. I realize there is a range there but as long as it doesn't go down to 11 or up to 13, I am calling it 12.


I have found that there is a BIG difference in voltage readings between what the battery analyzer shows and what my meters (3 of them) show when I check battery voltages at the end of a run.  All three meters, and they are different brands, all show higher voltage readings than the battery analyzer, so I'm going to go with its reading as I HOPE it is the most accurate.


I am putting together a spread sheet of the data from the battery analyzer and after I get back from Arizona (leaving in the morning for a week) I will continue with trying to kill these batteries by continuing to run the same load while switching the batteries back and forth. The batteries will have rested for a week, but there isn't much I can do about that.


I will be at a place that is off the grid, so no internet access. I can check in here, but won't have anything to post as far as data goes. Can answer any questions though.

Offline Hoppy

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Re: Basic Free Energy Device
« Reply #25 on: July 05, 2015, 11:35:46 PM »
I have an amp gauge and a clamp on amp meter. I have used both. I have several volt meters. I do not sit there and watch the batteries for the entire 30 minutes of the run, but I do check them every few minutes. You are correct in that there are fluctuations in the amp draw reading. I am trying to be conservative in stating that it is drawing .45 amps. I believe it is probably drawing higher, but 4.5 is the LOW I have seen so far during my checks of the meter. The voltage seems consistent at 12+ volts. I realize there is a range there but as long as it doesn't go down to 11 or up to 13, I am calling it 12.


I have found that there is a BIG difference in voltage readings between what the battery analyzer shows and what my meters (3 of them) show when I check battery voltages at the end of a run.  All three meters, and they are different brands, all show higher voltage readings than the battery analyzer, so I'm going to go with its reading as I HOPE it is the most accurate.


I am putting together a spread sheet of the data from the battery analyzer and after I get back from Arizona (leaving in the morning for a week) I will continue with trying to kill these batteries by continuing to run the same load while switching the batteries back and forth. The batteries will have rested for a week, but there isn't much I can do about that.


I will be at a place that is off the grid, so no internet access. I can check in here, but won't have anything to post as far as data goes. Can answer any questions though.

David,

Thanks for your reply.

If there are any reasonably frequent fluctuations in the supply to the motor, these would need to be recorded, as they will have a significant affect on the overall result as you are just relying an occasional meter reading. In any case, a better recording method would be to use a data recorder to produce a data set where an accurate average current and voltage and thus power consumption over the full run time can be obtained.

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Re: Basic Free Energy Device
« Reply #25 on: July 05, 2015, 11:35:46 PM »
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Offline Dbowling

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Re: Basic Free Energy Device
« Reply #26 on: July 05, 2015, 11:57:58 PM »
I will have to read up on my scope and see if it can store results. For some reason I think it can, but I have never tried to do that. I also have requested a quote on a DC-3VA DC-3VA Two Channel DC Voltage and Current Logger. Don't know how much they want for that.


The big issue is that there is NO WAY to accurately measure the voltage being used to run the motor, since it is running between TWO POSITIVES. The closest I can come is to put that same motor connected to that same generator running the same load on a power supply and increase the voltage until the rpm's of the motor are the same as when it is running on the system. So that will ALWAYS be an approximation.

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Basic Free Energy Device
« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2015, 12:45:11 AM »
Dbowling, a DMM will measure the voltage difference between two positives or two negatives or two anythings, just contact the two DMM lead points to the two potitions to be measured and the readout displays on the screen. However the voltage applied your motor will be changing all the time, but that is not an issue because all batteries change voltage during operation. Which is why we can take multiple measurements then average or whatever. Comparing in to out at any stage is valid.

If you are using batteries and want to know the total in v out then all you need to do is measure the real power dissipated by the load over a set time and the total real power to recharge the batteries.

The problem would seem to be that you are using batteries that are not in good condition and so therefore the power required to restore the batteries initial SOC is not possible because the batteries SOC is always changing as using the battery improves it's condition.

If you believe that somehow the batteries are manufacturing energy or drawing in energy then proving it will be very difficult.
Mainly because it isn't happening as there is no mechanism for that to happen.

Lead acid batteries even in bad condition can hold a considerable amount of potential energy (put there by charging), batteries in bad condition will just deliver the power in a different way to a good set of batteries, the power may come in a trickle for a while then suddenly provide good current and power for some time then reduce to a trickle again.

Unless you can show the effect with valid measurements, or continue to power a useful load without charging the batteries beyond the possible stored energy of the set of batteries then there is nothing to see here.

You've got three batteries and a small motor, and for some years now you can still not determine if the setup is over C.O.P. = 1.0.

How long will you say the setup is over C.O.P. = 1.0 without any evidence. 10 years, 20 years ?

Come on ! honestly, get a grip, the effect you are seeing can be explained in a couple of ways at least and has been already. Other people as well as myself have seen the effect first hand.

Applying a load to a bad battery can in some cases cause a bad to suddenly begin to give up some of it's stored energy while at the same time not affecting the battery terminal voltage or even causing it to increase. These effects are not new or difficult to understand.

I see no video demo's from you. Only words. Where is the evidence the effect even happens for you again ?

As for the "can't measure the voltage between two negatives" that's just rubbish. If there is a voltage difference present it can be measured with voltage measuring devices.

..

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Basic Free Energy Device
« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2015, 01:27:49 AM »
Dbowling, a DMM will measure the voltage difference between two positives or two negatives or two anythings, just contact the two DMM lead points to the two potitions to be measured and the readout displays on the screen. However the voltage applied your motor will be changing all the time, but that is not an issue because all batteries change voltage during operation. Which is why we can take multiple measurements then average or whatever. Comparing in to out at any stage is valid.

If you are using batteries and want to know the total in v out then all you need to do is measure the real power dissipated by the load over a set time and the total real power to recharge the batteries.

The problem would seem to be that you are using batteries that are not in good condition and so therefore the power required to restore the batteries initial SOC is not possible because the batteries SOC is always changing as using the battery improves it's condition.

If you believe that somehow the batteries are manufacturing energy or drawing in energy then proving it will be very difficult.
Mainly because it isn't happening as there is no mechanism for that to happen.

Lead acid batteries even in bad condition can hold a considerable amount of potential energy (put there by charging), batteries in bad condition will just deliver the power in a different way to a good set of batteries, the power may come in a trickle for a while then suddenly provide good current and power for some time then reduce to a trickle again.

Unless you can show the effect with valid measurements, or continue to power a useful load without charging the batteries beyond the possible stored energy of the set of batteries then there is nothing to see here.

You've got three batteries and a small motor, and for some years now you can still not determine if the setup is over C.O.P. = 1.0.

How long will you say the setup is over C.O.P. = 1.0 without any evidence. 10 years, 20 years ?

Come on ! honestly, get a grip, the effect you are seeing can be explained in a couple of ways at least and has been already. Other people as well as myself have seen the effect first hand.

Applying a load to a bad battery can in some cases cause a bad to suddenly begin to give up some of it's stored energy while at the same time not affecting the battery terminal voltage or even causing it to increase. These effects are not new or difficult to understand.

I see no video demo's from you. Only words. Where is the evidence the effect even happens for you again ?

As for the "can't measure the voltage between two negatives" that's just rubbish. If there is a voltage difference present it can be measured with voltage measuring devices.

..

He won't listen to you.  My first post here suggested self-looping as a way to really see what was happening and he replied that this was impossible, which, of course it is if you have less out than in.  Anything else is just empty words.

Bill

Offline Dbowling

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Re: Basic Free Energy Device
« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2015, 01:40:38 AM »
Ok Farmhand,
I posted the schematic of what I am running. You tell me what kind of meter to use and where to connect it to accurately measure the watts of power being used by the motor in this circuit (that is driving the generator.) Once you have shared that, I will be happy to hook up the meter and post results.  I can also post video of the thing running if that will make you happy. I am keeping a spread sheet of the results I have gotten so far, and I'm happy with them. I DO intend to purchase some brand new batteries when I come back from this trip, just for this setup, so I will be able to start a run from scratch, record the data, and determine the effects on the batteries as I continue to run loads. I also have established that at least ONE of my scopes will record data, so I can record the generator output in volts and amps during the course of a run. And if you have an accurate way to measure the voltage used by the motor in the setup, as you claim, then we will have some accurate data won't we?


You are incorrect in your statement that I have been running the 3BGS for 8 years and have never established whether or not it is COP>1. You can get extended run times out of the batteries using that system. Period. I have seen that on any number of occasions. And by the way your quote "can't measure the difference between two negatives IS rubbish... and was also never made by me. What I actually said was "there is NO WAY to accurately measure the voltage being used to run the motor, since it is running between TWO POSITIVES." I  believe that may also be incorrect, but if we're going to quote each other. let's be accurate.

 

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