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Author Topic: Ground Energy Extraction (GndNrgEx)  (Read 31267 times)

• Newbie
• Posts: 11
Ground Energy Extraction (GndNrgEx)
« on: June 11, 2015, 04:55:42 PM »

This is the first video in a series which investigates the possibility of extraction of energy from the ground.

This has been done before by Thomas Henry Moray in the 1920's. The video demonstrates that a bank of 52 white led's can be lit brightly when an earth wire is connected. The power supply registers no change in the current supplied to the circuit whether the load is connected or not.
There is no overunity performance suggested or implied in this video.

Please subscribe to ensure future videos are not missed. Thank you for watching.

Void

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2451
Re: Ground Energy Extraction (GndNrgEx)
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2015, 02:05:14 PM »
Hi radiant_one. From the video it looks like the power supply voltage was around 12.2V and the current
was showing as 0.03A. Since the current meter only shows two decimal digits, the 0.03 could be anywhere
from 0.03A to 0.039A. Also those power supply meters are usually not so accurate, but taking those numbers
as shown, and using the minimum value for the current when the meter is showing 0.03 gives:
12.2V x 0.03A = 366mW
Divide 366mW by 52, because you say you have 52 LEDs, and you get 7.04mW available for each LED,
if you had 100% efficiency. In my experience with testing with similar LEDs, they can be quite bright already
when dissipating only roughly a mW or so. They can start to light up already with only very low microamps.
So each LED having up to 7mW available should be a lot of excess power. Even if the efficiency of your driver
circuit is only 50%, you would still have 3.5mW of power available for each LED.

When you connect the earth ground you provide something for the LEDs to work against, which allows them to
light brighter, but the power supply appears to be supplying more than enough power to be lighting all the LEDs
very brightly. LEDs can also light against just a length of wire if you tune to a suitable frequency. Since many LEDs
these days only require a small current to light up, just having a length of wire connected to the other end gives enough
current flow at the right frequencies, due to the resonating of the wire. I have done a lot of experiments along those
lines, and in my experiments I have found that the power is still being drawn from the power supply to light the LEDs,
whether connecting one end of the LEDs to earth ground or a length of wire or not. The earth ground or length of wire
does not seem to add any free power to the arrangement in my own tests. Since many modern LEDs can start to light
already with only very low current going through them in the low microamps range, this can be misleading if you don't
take that into account and also do all the measurements and calculations.

I have been experimenting recently with a circuit along the lines of Lasersaber's 'super joule ringer', and it will
light a few small LEDs with only very low input current from it's supply capacitor, in the range of 30uA or so
at 10V. That is still not over unity however if you calculate everything out and take into account the brightness of
the LEDs, at least in my own tests anyway. This could be misleading to someone if they didn't realize that some modern LEDs
can already be lighting quite noticeably at even only 100uW of power dissipation by the LED. At 1mW of power dissipation many
types of modern LEDs can already be glowing really bright.

All the best...

FatBird

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1179
Re: Ground Energy Extraction (GndNrgEx)
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2015, 03:06:31 PM »
@ Void

SUPER nice post that really explains it.

Thanks.                                                                                              .

gotoluc

• elite_member
• Hero Member
• Posts: 3096
Re: Ground Energy Extraction (GndNrgEx)
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2015, 04:19:37 PM »
Nice and clean demo video!

Looking forward in seeing the circuit.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

• Newbie
• Posts: 11
Re: Ground Energy Extraction (GndNrgEx)
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2015, 04:02:56 PM »

This is the second video in a series which investigates the possibility of extraction of energy from the ground.

This video describes the circuit and tuning demonstrated in video 1. In that video I lit 52 white led's when an earth wire is connected but the power supply registered no change in the current supplied to the circuit whether the load is connected or not.

There is no overunity performance suggested or implied.

Please subscribe to ensure future videos are not missed. Thank you for watching.

synchro1

• Hero Member
• Posts: 4693
Re: Ground Energy Extraction (GndNrgEx)
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2015, 09:32:50 PM »
Hi radiant_one. From the video it looks like the power supply voltage was around 12.2V and the current
was showing as 0.03A. Since the current meter only shows two decimal digits, the 0.03 could be anywhere
from 0.03A to 0.039A. Also those power supply meters are usually not so accurate, but taking those numbers
as shown, and using the minimum value for the current when the meter is showing 0.03 gives:
12.2V x 0.03A = 366mW
Divide 366mW by 52, because you say you have 52 LEDs, and you get 7.04mW available for each LED,
if you had 100% efficiency. In my experience with testing with similar LEDs, they can be quite bright already
when dissipating only roughly a mW or so. They can start to light up already with only very low microamps.
So each LED having up to 7mW available should be a lot of excess power. Even if the efficiency of your driver
circuit is only 50%, you would still have 3.5mW of power available for each LED.

When you connect the earth ground you provide something for the LEDs to work against, which allows them to
light brighter, but the power supply appears to be supplying more than enough power to be lighting all the LEDs
very brightly. LEDs can also light against just a length of wire if you tune to a suitable frequency. Since many LEDs
these days only require a small current to light up, just having a length of wire connected to the other end gives enough
current flow at the right frequencies, due to the resonating of the wire. I have done a lot of experiments along those
lines, and in my experiments I have found that the power is still being drawn from the power supply to light the LEDs,
whether connecting one end of the LEDs to earth ground or a length of wire or not. The earth ground or length of wire
does not seem to add any free power to the arrangement in my own tests. Since many modern LEDs can start to light
already with only very low current going through them in the low microamps range, this can be misleading if you don't
take that into account and also do all the measurements and calculations.

I have been experimenting recently with a circuit along the lines of Lasersaber's 'super joule ringer', and it will
light a few small LEDs with only very low input current from it's supply capacitor, in the range of 30uA or so
at 10V. That is still not over unity however if you calculate everything out and take into account the brightness of
the LEDs, at least in my own tests anyway. This could be misleading to someone if they didn't realize that some modern LEDs
can already be lighting quite noticeably at even only 100uW of power dissipation by the LED. At 1mW of power dissipation many
types of modern LEDs can already be glowing really bright.

All the best...

@Void,

How do you explain Dr. Stiffler's 3 coil ground resonant LED illuminator, which lights an LED with no input at all, just the ground?

Void

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2451
Re: Ground Energy Extraction (GndNrgEx)
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2015, 05:33:22 PM »
@Void,
How do you explain Dr. Stiffler's 3 coil ground resonant LED illuminator, which lights an LED with no input at all, just the ground?

Hi synchro1. I have never looked at his stuff in much detail, but in that scenario you have to take
steps to rule out picking up EM fields from your bench equipment's transformers and wiring and wall wiring. I have made
a sensitive blocking oscillator (sensitive joule thief type oscillator) that would oscillate and very slowly charge a super capacitor
just from the 60 Hz AC field energy picked up from my bench equipment's transformers and wiring, even though the bench equipment wasn't
turned on. I confirmed the source of the power being 60 Hz AC by looking at the oscillator signals on my scope.
The sensitive oscillator would fire with a burst of high frequency oscillations at 60Hz sinewave zero crossing points.

I don't know if Dr. Stiffler ever put his circuits into the microwave while it was unplugged or in a metal enclosed box to test, or ran his circuit
while outside and well away from power lines, but that would have been some essential tests in my opinion.
All the best..

gotoluc

• elite_member
• Hero Member
• Posts: 3096
Re: Ground Energy Extraction (GndNrgEx)
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2015, 06:07:50 PM »
I agree, if radiant one could make a video with his circuit in a Faraday cage able to output the same amount as without it, then that would be a very good start!

Thanks for sharing

Luc

Void

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2451
Re: Ground Energy Extraction (GndNrgEx)
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2015, 09:45:28 PM »
I agree, if radiant one could make a video with his circuit in a Faraday cage able to output the same amount as without it, then that would be a very good start!

Hi gotoluc. I don't think radiant_one really needs to do that at this point, as I explained in my calculations
above that the input power from his power supply is more than enough to power the 52 LEDs really brightly.
Stefan also commented on radiant_one's video that not seeing much change in the input power draw doesn't
mean that the load is not drawing power from the power supply. Adding the ground wire provides something for the
LEDs to resonate against better, but just adding a long thicker gauge wire that is not grounded will probably
work just as well, or almost as well. I believe that adding the wire adds capacitance to the LED's end connection, which it can
then resonate better against. I have had LEDs lighting with just a short wire attached to one end, but you have to tune to a
suitable frequency. When the LEDs are not in an ideal circuit arrangement to light up brightly, the driver circuit can
still draw about the same power. This has to do with what impedance the driver circuit is seeing. If there is a bad impedance
mismatch, much of the power will dissipate in the driver circuitry and coil windings instead of going into the LEDs. It is a mistake to
assume that because the input power doesn't increase when connecting the ground wire that the extra power is coming
from the ground. My testing with this has shown that the power supply power is where the power is coming from, even when driving a LED
with one end connected to a short wire. You just need to find the right frequency to get the LED and piece of wire resonating half decently.
That doesn't mean that in some special cases you can't get over unity from this type of arrangement, but in my testing anyway the input power
from the driver circuit is what is supplying all the power to the load.
All the best...

gotoluc

• elite_member
• Hero Member
• Posts: 3096
Re: Ground Energy Extraction (GndNrgEx)
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2015, 06:32:38 AM »
Thanks Void, I suppose you're right!... I have done similar experiments and also found pulsed circuits with the right parasitic capacitance show similar effects. It's difficult to know which effects is contributing but capacitance tuning is the most likely one.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

MasterPlaster

• Hero Member
• Posts: 530
Re: Ground Energy Extraction (GndNrgEx)
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2015, 10:15:05 PM »
@Void,

How do you explain Dr. Stiffler's 3 coil ground resonant LED illuminator, which lights an LED with no input at all, just the ground?

In the back of my mind this is due to direct excitation of the PN junction and no magic there.

Dave45

• Guest
Re: Ground Energy Extraction (GndNrgEx)
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2015, 02:05:30 AM »

Dave45

• Guest
Re: Ground Energy Extraction (GndNrgEx)
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2015, 03:24:51 PM »
Any idea's why there is a relation between the alligator clip and L2

Why it effects current draw

Dave45

• Guest
Re: Ground Energy Extraction (GndNrgEx)
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2015, 03:38:26 PM »
Looking forward to your next vid.

• Newbie
• Posts: 11
Re: Ground Energy Extraction (GndNrgEx)
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2015, 05:01:19 PM »