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New theories about free energy systems => Theory of overunity and free energy => Topic started by: DROBNJAK on June 11, 2015, 10:38:40 AM

Title: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: DROBNJAK on June 11, 2015, 10:38:40 AM
I posted a constricted version on EEVbog's forum, but here is a bit more liberal version. Enjoy. Scalar field is live and kicking, confirmed by Aharonov-Bohm's effect and Nobel Prize laureate. Long live Nikola Tesla, TPU, Woodward Effect, Dr. William J. Hooper, Dr. Deborah Chung, Caduceus Coils, Distinti et. all. Apologies to anybody I missed out.


There was a conference about Aharonov-Bohm's effect on university in Tel Aviv University. Professor Chen Ning Yang, who won Nobel Prize in Physics (1957), talks about controversial castration of Maxwell equations by Oliver Heaviside.

Since 99% of Electrical & Electronics Engineers live in the illusion that Maxwell's equations they are thought at university are 'complete' Maxwell's equations, this might be an eye opener. If not an eye-popper  :)

History of the Vector Potential  (https://youtu.be/WnsrDFSjcZ0)

Just to disambiguate, this videos without shadow of doubt, demonstrates that Maxwell's equations that are tough at universities across whole world for more than 100 years are 'censored' or 'crippled' Maxwell's equations. And since Theory of Relativity is derived from 'crippled' Maxwell's equations, Relaitivy is just a special case, nothing more. Notably, Relativity doesn't apply to rotation and acceleration, only to movement in straight line at a constant speed.

And, since we all like experimental proof, and many people here have good instrumentation, somebody might try to verify this:

emf002x: Measuring the Rhombus Experiment (https://youtu.be/hcvXww2wygg)
emf001x: Quad Loop: Experimental Data (https://youtu.be/t9ZR_EWcIuk)

Lab demonstration of Negative Resistance in plain wires, by professor Dr. Deborah Chung, Buffalo, NY:

  Negative Resistance in Conductors (https://youtu.be/S6pJXXaqz3E)

Please don't jump on me until you watch the videos till the end.

Now, can somebody who is better at maths than myself, explain to me does this mean that Free Energy is possible? The above Scalar field is non-conservative, meaning one can take energy out of scalar field without putting it back in and one can put energy into scalar field without getting it back. Is my interpretation too optimistic?


And finally, this is Chen Ning Yang's equation that will most likely change the science as we know it and change the world:
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: tinman on June 11, 2015, 01:45:14 PM
Lol
MH will love this one.
Tear up them book's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fF1eyBxdt6c
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: tinman on June 12, 2015, 12:57:36 PM
I see the big guns are leaving this one alone ::)
Easier to bury your head in the sand,than to find out what you thought was right is in fact wrong. ;)
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: Dave45 on June 12, 2015, 01:24:50 PM
Quote
MH will love this one.
Tear up them book's.

Quote
I see the big guns are leaving this one alone (http://overunity.com/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
Easier to bury your head in the sand,than to find out what you thought was right is in fact wrong. (http://overunity.com/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

Roflmao

 http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yf4ejzSYnYw/UTdplBJiiLI/AAAAAAAAAE0/lDExvjERfFw/s320/mmmmmmm+donut.+100+oc+animated+gif+i+made+for+my_4a2d7d_3944935.gif (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yf4ejzSYnYw/UTdplBJiiLI/AAAAAAAAAE0/lDExvjERfFw/s320/mmmmmmm+donut.+100+oc+animated+gif+i+made+for+my_4a2d7d_3944935.gif)
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: tinman on June 12, 2015, 02:48:32 PM
Roflmao

 http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yf4ejzSYnYw/UTdplBJiiLI/AAAAAAAAAE0/lDExvjERfFw/s320/mmmmmmm+donut.+100+oc+animated+gif+i+made+for+my_4a2d7d_3944935.gif (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yf4ejzSYnYw/UTdplBJiiLI/AAAAAAAAAE0/lDExvjERfFw/s320/mmmmmmm+donut.+100+oc+animated+gif+i+made+for+my_4a2d7d_3944935.gif)
Lol
Nice one Dave.
But i must admit that i too didnt see what was right in front of me all this time. This is a clasic example how easy we are led to believe one thing,when the truth is staring us right in the eye.

Doh. lol
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: minnie on June 12, 2015, 02:49:01 PM



  Youtube  Ptolemy  and Homer  (Simpson ).
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: joel321 on June 13, 2015, 07:08:22 AM
Take a rich persons opinions VS a logistics persons opinions. Let them debate for a while, eventually the rich person will pay enough money to overcome logistics of the truth.

Right now there is many logistic truth all over the place to benefit humanity but the GREED is the sub zero degrees ice cold of TRUTH. = VERY HOT TEMPERATURES TO MAKE MONEY. In effect, money is very hot and truth is very cold...which of course is artificial and corrupt. = GREED.

It takes like 5 years to truly corrupt a humans mind to the point of no return...now lets assume a human has been corrupted by greed for 30 years, how in the world can they see beyond the corruption? It will take at least 10 years of constant therapy plus 5 more years to get the feeling that it is “normal” to understand they live in such society. You can see how hard it is to make the corrupt understand their corrupt minds? It is easier to get corrupted yourself than to fight it. :P (if you can see, that is)

It is 100% known that liquor causes many deaths each year...100% truth along with cigarettes...but GREED will never stop them...YET, drunk driving TICKETING is a parasite that takes advantage of the corruption AS IF giving out tickets to drunk drivers will EVER STOP drunk drivers? You have to be real STUPID to not see the HAMSTER wheel going on there. lol
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: joel321 on June 13, 2015, 07:28:25 AM
Quote
And finally, this is Chen Ning Yang's equation that will most likely change the science as we know it and change the world:

Can you explain that equation to me like if you where talking to a 5 year old?
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: Pirate88179 on June 13, 2015, 07:38:12 AM
Can you explain that equation to me like if you where talking to a 5 year old?

Better make that a 4 year old...Joel does not even know how to use epoxy and thinks it does not work.

Bill
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: joel321 on June 13, 2015, 07:54:13 AM
Can you explain what you mean to pirate as if you where talking to a rock stuck in mud and give him a tube of jbweld to play with afterwards because he will not understand logistics, just shiny sticky stuff lol?
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: ayeaye on June 13, 2015, 06:09:03 PM
Can you explain that equation to me like if you where talking to a 5 year old?
I think i can, as i don't know much about it myself.

Electrons, they have a frequency and a wave length, the same as all bodies, except when heavier, then the wave length is smaller. Thus the experiments such as a two slit experiment (bohm always called it a two slit experiment not a double slit experiment) can be done with electrons, the same as with photons. Like you can calculate your frequency and wave length, when knowing your weight. Your wave length is very small though, which makes for you somewhat difficult to walk through the walls.

Now consider a coil which is shielded the way that there is no magnetic field outside of it. When an electron beam passes near it, then the frequency of the electrons has a phase shift when there is a magnetic field inside the coil, and none if there is no magnetic field. The frequency of the electrons themselves, as i explained above, not the frequency with which the electron beam is modulated.

The problem with that is that their mathematics cannot describe that effect well. David Bohm was all about interconnectedness, and thus likely thought that the effect is non-local. Non-local because there is no magnetic field outside the coil, thus the electrons sense something which cannot affect them directly.

David Bohm has a concept of implicate order, that is all the reality is a changing interconnected network, with changing network topology, that is. Mathematics, that is analytical expressions, cannot describe such network. By that, particles are changing structures of connections. They have frequency, they behave like waves, and their structure is over a larger area, due to the way the changes of connections happen there, a propagating process which is a general form of wave. Yet their structure is separate from anything else and cannot merge with it, thus the wave particle duality. Like charged particles may regularly create long extensions of that structure, which may look like thunderbolts, when they cross each other, the particles interact with each other. This is the way how objects can find each other in the 3d world, because they cannot see each other, so the have to "stumble" the things around them, with such "thunderbolts". It is that people cannot imagine such kind of changing structures, this is why it is very difficult for them to understand the things, like particles.

Theory of relativity, well, this theory is all about that things are completely separated, to completely disregard interconnectedness. Like say another planet moves towards us with a half of the speed of light. Now when we have a large telescope, we see that the time goes faster on that planet. But when they on that planet have a large telescope, too, then they see that the time goes faster on our planet. So on what planet then does the time go faster? The speed is relative, but in spite that this theory is so much about relativity, it seems to sometimes consider that speed is not relative. Well anyway, this theory may well fail when anything has to do with interconnectedness, that is non-locality. Because this theory assumes that things are completely separated from each other, may not have anything common or anything which ties them together. Not that it is entirely wrong, but it just may not describe things adequately enough.

This is the limitation of human thinking, one should be not human, to understand it better. Like ayeaye's are like forms of aliens, their thinking is different ;)

I don't know that this effect can cause any real force or has any considerable physical effect. As i said, it is mostly just about that their mathematics cannot well describe that effect. So they come up with different ways how mathematics may describe it, but analytical equations are inherently an incomplete model by themselves, thus they can be made more exact, but can nevertheless never describe everything exactly. So it may rather be just an unnecessary mental exercise.

So this is i think what every 5 year old will understand.

The following picture depicts two electrons, trying to find each other.
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: forest on June 13, 2015, 08:52:45 PM
you know what ? nothing to explain.... just remember : CHARGE is not electron !
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: poynt99 on June 13, 2015, 09:36:15 PM
I see the big guns are leaving this one alone ::)
Easier to bury your head in the sand,than to find out what you thought was right is in fact wrong. ;)

Are you jumping again Brad? I hope not.

Distinti seems to be rejecting standard theory based on a number of wrong assumptions.
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: shylo on June 14, 2015, 03:05:15 AM
Are you jumping again Brad? I hope not.

Distinti seems to be rejecting standard theory based on a number of wrong assumptions.

Isn't theory just assumption? Where's the proof to back up the theory?
It's like we know if we put gas in the car it will go , but why,... is a mystery.
Don't you need to assume something ,before coming up with a theory?
artv
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: poynt99 on June 14, 2015, 04:42:04 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqJw_Bo00ME (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqJw_Bo00ME)

Start watching at about 5:00.

This guy is lost. "Charge is a fundamental part of the magnetic field"?  ???   He can't seem to figure why of how current is induced in a closed loop when a changing uniform magnetic field is passing through and outside the loop. "It's ambiguous". Really, is it? Not. There are no charges in the magnetic field.

The "Disconnect tell". Now that is hilarious too. Good grief! Apparently he is not aware that it is the resulting circular E field which induces current in the loop, not the B field.

I don't think it's time to rewrite the text books just yet!
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: poynt99 on June 14, 2015, 05:03:52 AM
I see the big guns are leaving this one alone ::)
Easier to bury your head in the sand,than to find out what you thought was right is in fact wrong. ;)
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: joel321 on June 14, 2015, 07:28:40 AM
I think i can, as i don't know much about it myself.

Electrons, they have a frequency and a wave length, the same as all bodies, except when heavier, then the wave length is smaller. Thus the experiments such as a two slit experiment (bohm always called it a two slit experiment not a double slit experiment) can be done with electrons, the same as with photons. Like you can calculate your frequency and wave length, when knowing your weight. Your wave length is very small though, which makes for you somewhat difficult to walk through the walls.

Now consider a coil which is shielded the way that there is no magnetic field outside of it. When an electron beam passes near it, then the frequency of the electrons has a phase shift when there is a magnetic field inside the coil, and none if there is no magnetic field. The frequency of the electrons themselves, as i explained above, not the frequency with which the electron beam is modulated.

The problem with that is that their mathematics cannot describe that effect well. David Bohm was all about interconnectedness, and thus likely thought that the effect is non-local. Non-local because there is no magnetic field outside the coil, thus the electrons sense something which cannot affect them directly.

David Bohm has a concept of implicate order, that is all the reality is a changing interconnected network, with changing network topology, that is. Mathematics, that is analytical expressions, cannot describe such network. By that, particles are changing structures of connections. They have frequency, they behave like waves, and their structure is over a larger area, due to the way the changes of connections happen there, a propagating process which is a general form of wave. Yet their structure is separate from anything else and cannot merge with it, thus the wave particle duality. Like charged particles may regularly create long extensions of that structure, which may look like thunderbolts, when they cross each other, the particles interact with each other. This is the way how objects can find each other in the 3d world, because they cannot see each other, so the have to "stumble" the things around them, with such "thunderbolts". It is that people cannot imagine such kind of changing structures, this is why it is very difficult for them to understand the things, like particles.

Theory of relativity, well, this theory is all about that things are completely separated, to completely disregard interconnectedness. Like say another planet moves towards us with a half of the speed of light. Now when we have a large telescope, we see that the time goes faster on that planet. But when they on that planet have a large telescope, too, then they see that the time goes faster on our planet. So on what planet then does the time go faster? The speed is relative, but in spite that this theory is so much about relativity, it seems to sometimes consider that speed is not relative. Well anyway, this theory may well fail when anything has to do with interconnectedness, that is non-locality. Because this theory assumes that things are completely separated from each other, may not have anything common or anything which ties them together. Not that it is entirely wrong, but it just may not describe things adequately enough.

This is the limitation of human thinking, one should be not human, to understand it better. Like ayeaye's are like forms of aliens, their thinking is different ;)

I don't know that this effect can cause any real force or has any considerable physical effect. As i said, it is mostly just about that their mathematics cannot well describe that effect. So they come up with different ways how mathematics may describe it, but analytical equations are inherently an incomplete model by themselves, thus they can be made more exact, but can nevertheless never describe everything exactly. So it may rather be just an unnecessary mental exercise.

So this is i think what every 5 year old will understand.

The following picture depicts two electrons, trying to find each other.

Is that how you talk to a 5 year old? Lol

Just kidding but you have a lot of stuff going on there to ponder about. One of the many that got me wondering/pondering is that “do electrons have different mass or are they all the same size?” Now you have me thinking/wondering too “what is spinning around an electron?”

Another thing, what is it with mathematicians trying to ONLY focus on the singularity? I think part of the reason “the big bang” makes sense to a mathematician is because it hits a singularity. The opposite of “the big bang” will only be understood as a negative number. And that is over and done with I assume. That may well make sense in the numbers but but math cannot explain the whole universe...what is the math equation for glass? Not the recipe for items used to make glass, but the MATH why the light passes through it. I think people HIT a certain area where they believe that they already figured out EVERYTHING and feel superior to everything else YET TO BE DISCOVERED! So they close their mind and only spent their life trying to “teach” people instead of keep on learning.

At any rate, I didn't really understood what you meant :P can you explain it like if you where talking to an embryo? lol
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: Turbo on June 14, 2015, 07:46:52 AM
It's quite simple actually,

There is a part of an old equation that was cut off to make the calculations more easy, and also "because it doesn't do anything" but little did they know back then, and little do most know now.
You can actually measure this potential it has a pronounced effect around high voltage discharges, and i am not talking about RF or X-rays or something like that.
There is another field and this is the field you could be interested in, but most keep playing with statics and magnetic s.
You can identify or notice this field the easiest way by using a moving conductor, it does not need to be magnetic nor does it have to have magnetic properties anything will work, but like what we see in magnets, it has to be in motion to notice the effects.
You move this conductor, let's say you use a metal plate, can be anything, copper ,alu, iron, you make sure it is close to ground, or, you vary the distance between ground and the conductor, that is one of the ways, since you can notice it is there by noticing the differences just like magnetic s.
It's not all, this field can move over insulators, actually it is moving over insulators as we speak but you are most likely unaware of it.
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: tinman on June 14, 2015, 08:04:56 AM

Nice picture,but it would be far more useful to point out his mistake's-->dont you think?.
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: minnie on June 14, 2015, 08:13:52 AM



     Did you read 14?
                 John.
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: joel321 on June 14, 2015, 08:33:12 AM
It may not be relevant but this also got me thinking about “food”, “energy”. All living things need food to survive. Basically they need to eat to survive and also need to exchange “energy” to make babies. Hmmm...when it comes to the quantum level, this makes me think that even at the quantum level the electrons need food to survive and also they have a “father and mother” but since they are not humans like us, the electron could easily just change “” at will because the rules change in the quantum level. If a bunch of electrons can all of a sudden become protons, wow. If one pictures the world as waves and quantum particles, it's more complex than just 0's and 1's.

Now that I think about it, money is the corruption of the mother nature universal laws of energy. The math of energy is of an equal and opposite reaction? Even poop is energy for microbial animals and i'm assuming the microbial animals poop all the way down to the quantum microbes. But money, it would be more healthy to eat poop than to eat money...lol

At any rate, if all life needs energy to survive, an electron or a photon need “food” too? Which reminds me, what is spinning around a photon? Many photons = the speed of light. But if whatever is spining around a photon is the same speed as the speed of light THEN the light would cancel out, IWO, the “unknown” spinning/orbiting around the photon must me going at greater speed than the speed of light.  If you think of a car going at 30MPH the wheels spin wayyy faster than the forward motion of the car. Now think of the “wheels” of light = must be going/wiggling/waving faster than the speed of light...lol
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: joel321 on June 14, 2015, 08:44:43 AM
Quote
It's quite simple actually,

There is a part of an old equation that was cut off to make the calculations more easy, and also "because it doesn't do anything" but little did they know back then, and little do most know now.
You can actually measure this potential it has a pronounced effect around high voltage discharges, and i am not talking about RF or X-rays or something like that.
There is another field and this is the field you could be interested in, but most keep playing with statics and magnetic s.
You can identify or notice this field the easiest way by using a moving conductor, it does not need to be magnetic nor does it have to have magnetic properties anything will work, but like what we see in magnets, it has to be in motion to notice the effects.
You move this conductor, let's say you use a metal plate, can be anything, copper ,alu, iron, you make sure it is close to ground, or, you vary the distance between ground and the conductor, that is one of the ways, since you can notice it is there by noticing the differences just like magnetic s.
It's not all, this field can move over insulators, actually it is moving over insulators as we speak but you are most likely unaware of it.

Do you have a visual reference to go with that?
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: tinman on June 14, 2015, 09:08:59 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqJw_Bo00ME (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqJw_Bo00ME)



Quote
This guy is lost. "Charge is a fundamental part of the magnetic field"?  ???   He can't seem to figure why of how current is induced in a closed loop when a changing uniform magnetic field is passing through and outside the loop. "It's ambiguous". Really, is it? Not. There are no charges in the magnetic field
.

This one we wont agree on Poynt. As i have said before,and say now-->magnetic fields are positive and negative charges.I know,you and most other big guns will just dismiss this as rubbish(as has happened before),but no one has yet offered another theory or explanation to what the magnetic force is. My theory fit's all situations(including the homopolar generator paradox),and is yet to be proven wrong.Like charges repel,unlike charges attract.


Quote
The "Disconnect tell". Now that is hilarious too. Good grief! Apparently he is not aware that it is the resulting circular E field which induces current in the loop, not the B field.

Are you sure?. The electric field is caused by electric charges or varying magnetic fields. Quote: since the magnetic field is described as a function of electric field, the equations of both fields are coupled and together form Maxwell's equations that describe both fields as a function of charges and currents. So how do you know which field induces the current,when you cannot have one without the other?. Without the B field,there would be no induction. Current only exist when a B field is present-->or a B field only exist when a current is flowing.

Quote
I don't think it's time to rewrite the text books just yet!

I think it's time they got a good going over. If you shut those books Poynt,then maybe that elusive TPU would come to light-->and i know your on board with that one. ;)
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: ayeaye on June 14, 2015, 12:02:52 PM
Charges, my primitive understanding is this. A magnetic dipole is a revolving charge, like a wheel. Magnetic field is thus like a kind of rotating electrostatic field. The current in the wire orientates dipoles, somewhat the way like a car wheel goes against the road. Now when these dipoles stand still, this doesn't induce current, because the electrons find places where the forces are in balance, kind of, and don't move. This is why unchanging magnetic field doesn't induce current. But when more these dipoles come, then this kind of kicks the electrons and forces them to move. Again orientating the dipoles may need less work than the work that the dipoles do. This is just to have some idea, something very complex is going on there which cannot be described easily, yet it is said to be the most basic.
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: ayeaye on June 14, 2015, 12:42:32 PM
Is that how you talk to a 5 year old? Lol
Now you have me thinking/wondering too “what is spinning around an electron?”
Spinning, well. Considering that a particle is a changing structure of connections, a lot can be going on there. Cyclic processes that are similar to waving. But also processes which are similar to rotating. And many other things. It is a structure, on the lattice of space. As such, particles can even be inside each other, yet they maintain their identity, their structure is separate and keeps its integrity. Yet they can interact with other such structures. Such structures of connections can do whatever, like a computer code, yet they remain "physical". Thus it is not really important to find physical reasons for everything, the particles just function the way they do. And it cannot be completely described by analytical equations, for the reason i said before. The geometric patterns may have importance though, this has been found in quantum mechanics recently, why, because the patterns of connections matter in such structures.

I don't understand, all the quantum mechanics started when Planck found that everything physical, that is distances, time and everything else, is discrete. So space is a grid, may be changing grid yet grid, and all is structures of connections. This is what quantum mechanics should mean as i understand, yet it has been tried to have an understanding that it isn't so.

Well, by 5 year olds i meant 5 year old alien-like ayeayes, which can be somewhat different from human 5 year olds, so i guess i misunderstood somewhat ;)
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: poynt99 on June 14, 2015, 01:11:02 PM
Nice picture,but it would be far more useful to point out his mistake's-->dont you think?.
http://overunity.com/15807/all-you-know-is-wrong-thats-official-/msg452818/#msg452818 (http://overunity.com/15807/all-you-know-is-wrong-thats-official-/msg452818/#msg452818)

I pointed out a couple of things here. That's as far as I needed to go to see there is a problem.

The current theory stands; it's up to you or him to point out where it is lacking. I see that he does not understand the current theory, so he has made up his own.
 
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: Dave45 on June 14, 2015, 01:23:51 PM
Spinning, well. Considering that a particle is a changing structure of connections, a lot can be going on there. Cyclic processes that are similar to waving. But also processes which are similar to rotating. And many other things. It is a structure, on the lattice of space. As such, particles can even be inside each other, yet they maintain their identity, their structure is separate and keeps its integrity. Yet they can interact with other such structures. Such structures of connections can do whatever, like a computer code, yet they remain "physical". Thus it is not really important to find physical reasons for everything, the particles just function the way they do. And it cannot be completely described by analytical equations, for the reason i said before. The geometric patterns may have importance though, this has been found in quantum mechanics recently, why, because the patterns of connections matter in such structures.

I don't understand, all the quantum mechanics started when Planck found that everything physical, that is distances, time and everything else, is discrete. So space is a grid, may be changing grid yet grid, and all is structures of connections. This is what quantum mechanics should mean as i understand, yet it has been tried to have an understanding that it isn't so.

Well, by 5 year olds i meant 5 year old alien-like ayeayes, which can be somewhat different from human 5 year olds, so i guess i misunderstood somewhat ;)
Can we see that grid structure in nature, of course we can.

Magnetic fields permeate space,

 When we think of the magnetic field we tend to think of one field line but there are millions, they more than likely have an ordered structure.

Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: joel321 on June 15, 2015, 07:50:44 AM
Quote
Spinning, well. Considering that a particle is a changing structure of connections, a lot can be going on there. Cyclic processes that are similar to waving. But also processes which are similar to rotating. And many other things. It is a structure, on the lattice of space. As such, particles can even be inside each other, yet they maintain their identity, their structure is separate and keeps its integrity. Yet they can interact with other such structures. Such structures of connections can do whatever, like a computer code, yet they remain "physical". Thus it is not really important to find physical reasons for everything, the particles just function the way they do. And it cannot be completely described by analytical equations, for the reason i said before. The geometric patterns may have importance though, this has been found in quantum mechanics recently, why, because the patterns of connections matter in such structures.

I don't understand, all the quantum mechanics started when Planck found that everything physical, that is distances, time and everything else, is discrete. So space is a grid, may be changing grid yet grid, and all is structures of connections. This is what quantum mechanics should mean as i understand, yet it has been tried to have an understanding that it isn't so.

Well, by 5 year olds i meant 5 year old alien-like ayeayes, which can be somewhat different from human 5 year olds, so i guess i misunderstood somewhat 

Basically what you are saying that everything has a frequency while at the same time there is a frequency governing that frequency. I understand that, I get it. I understand that light is a frequency too and has it's limits. I understand that a flashlight inside a room would not emit the light inside a closed room walls while a WiFi router waves inside a closed room would penetrate walls. This can ONLY mean that the “particles” that govern the slower waves can move though solids way easier than those that go at the speed of light. Slow waves can penetrate solid walls way easier than fast waves…

What I don't understand is Chen Ning Yang's  equation. What is so special about it?

BTW, from what planet do ayeaye aliens come from? Do you have a picture of one?
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: Dave45 on June 15, 2015, 02:17:08 PM
Can we see that grid structure in nature, of course we can.

Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: tinman on June 16, 2015, 01:15:29 AM
http://overunity.com/15807/all-you-know-is-wrong-thats-official-/msg452818/#msg452818 (http://overunity.com/15807/all-you-know-is-wrong-thats-official-/msg452818/#msg452818)

I pointed out a couple of things here. That's as far as I needed to go to see there is a problem.

The current theory stands; it's up to you or him to point out where it is lacking. I see that he does not understand the current theory, so he has made up his own.
So your saying his theory is wrong because it dosnt agree with current theory ???
Well that IS his argument-->he dosnt agree with current theory. What i see is this guy doing and showing results from actual test,verses current written theory. His whole point is to show that current theory is wrong,so why would he use the understood current theory?.
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: poynt99 on June 16, 2015, 04:41:17 AM
Evidently he doesn't even understand the current theory.

If he doesn't understand the current theory, how can his conclusion about it being wrong be well founded?
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: joel321 on June 17, 2015, 10:50:00 AM
Quote
Evidently he doesn't even understand the current theory.

This logic I have passed a lot myself which now has me asking, what makes you 100% certain you, yourself, understand the current theory?

Trust me GREED just makes a person with money believe that he designed a computer and invented the wheel.

I could look at the opposite and think “All we know is Right” and I can count shyt lot of things why that is not 100% accurate...lol

Now if he does not understand the current theory 100% means, in your mind, that he is 100% wrong...ok, cool, now who or what makes you to be the 100% understanding of the current theory? And  are all theories STATIC? Just curious.
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: forest on June 17, 2015, 12:11:16 PM
If you understand current theory then you can explain what is "electric charge" , right ? Go on...
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: poynt99 on June 18, 2015, 02:41:21 AM
Put on your thinking caps guys. I'm quite tired of spelling things out for you.

Let me rephrase things a little; it appears that he doesn't understand the basics or fundamentals of current theory. If you understood the basics of induction etc., you would be questioning the need for his new theory, rather than questioning the current theory itself.
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: ayeaye on June 20, 2015, 11:15:44 PM
What I don't understand is Chen Ning Yang's  equation. What is so special about it?
It is difficult for me because i don't have so great knowledge about these things, as i only recently started to look more into them, and now i should understand them, with my simple mind.

Well, mathematics is a modeling, which describes the reality more or less accurately. Means there can be any gibberish in it, which may just happen to describe something in the reality, or then may not. In mathematics this may have some abstract meaning, but it does not necessarily have the same meaning in the reality. In the reality it has only as much meaning as much it happens to describe the reality, the full mathematical meaning may just be a mental exercise.

It is that Maxwell liked to express everything, including the Faraday's law and the Ampere's law, in a vector form. He kind of extended the original equations in several ways, only based on mathematics, not that the experiments confirmed that. One of that was expressing everything as a vector, including the potential. The expressions that were originally in a simple form, with values only, and not in the vector form.

Now Chen Ning Yang argues that the evidence confirms that these mathematical extensions in the equations by Maxwell, in fact correspond to the reality. He especially mentions the Aharonov-Bohm experiment. But, if you read my post here "What is induction?", you may see that there are possible other explanations. By that, if the dipole is side-wise towards the wire, that is the electron flow, then the dipole does not "pump" the electrons in one direction, as it happens when the rotating dipole moves in the relation to the electron flow. Thus, there is no generally known effect. Yet the revolving electron in the dipole affects the electrons somewhat, likely making them to move slightly back and forth. This may well change the vibration of the electrons, causing it to phase shift. What Aharonov-Bohm experiment shows. So it may have a really simple explanation, with no need of any vectors or additions in the Maxwell's equations. By only what has always been known, that charged particles attract or repulse each other.

Chen Ning Yang spokes like everything Maxwell wrote was so right, that everything must be taken as a truth. I could agree with it if i had the same faith in the Maxwell's writings as Chen Ning Yang has. Unfortunately i have no reason to trust everything Maxwell said, that much. As i know that Maxwell has other questionable extensions to his equations.

One is his extension to the Ampere's equation. As Ampere's equation originally states just that the magnetic field induced by a current, is linear to the strength of the current. But Maxwell added to it another component, which is creation of the magnetic field due to the changing electrostatic field. This has never been experimentally confirmed. This should mean that with a capacitor one should be able to create a magnetic field, no one has done that yet. And furthermore, a capacitor then can be used as an antenna to generate radio waves, as much as i know, capacitor cannot be used as an antenna.

This invalidates all the conventional explanation of what radio waves are. Because this is based on such artificially extended equation by Maxwell. More likely i think radio waves are just a propagation of a changing magnetic field, with no electrostatic component. This is what Maxwell himself suggested.

Now go further and ask how radio waves can propagate in a vacuum. Likely no one really knows. But it is also not exactly known what vacuum is, certainly it is a more complex structure than just an empty space. There are said to be certain "virtual particles" in the vacuum, some of these may be magnetic dipoles, as they have spin. Any particle that has a spin can be a magnetic dipole, and as much as i know, all particles have spin, except the higgs bosons. And magnetic dipoles are then all that is necessary for propagation of radio waves.

So i said all i could think about, my two cents, or as i said hopefully some more cents, so that i can buy a cup of coffee ;)

You may also read my post "What is induction?" here, where i described the idea i got, of how to explain induction. The drawing below is from that post.
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: poynt99 on June 23, 2015, 02:30:31 PM
Nice to see you around Loner.  :)
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: ramset on June 23, 2015, 03:02:05 PM
Yes I Agree
Nice to see you around and a pleasure to read your opinions.
Chet K
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: joel321 on June 24, 2015, 09:53:37 AM
Ayeaye, “alien” you think A LOT which is good for “evolution” but it could also mean mean “full of dookie”. (which is who isn't do "aliens" poop?)

Have you seen an “electron” move around a proton? (dig deeper with the shovel lol)

ELECTRONS move counter or clockwise or even in steps….that's not important! What is important is their purpose!

Think of the sun...I’m sure there are electrons going clock-wise counter-clockwise around the sun! BUT WHAT IS THIS FORMULA? That makes air?

I can picture protons, any type of quantum, spinning in all directions, just that the frequency makes SENSE! Having said that, ELECTRONS MOVE COUNTER CLOCKWISE AND CLOCKWISE.
Where is the “positive” cross inside the “freeway” road you constructed?

Is that how your brain neurotic drawing looks like ayeaye?  ;D
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: joel321 on June 24, 2015, 10:04:31 AM
Ayeaye, those are a lot of words for such disappointing drawing talent. Why are those “electrons” going in a straight line in the nucleus of your imagination in their opposite direction BUT yet STILL spinning clockwise? You just showed a drawing of clockwise electron flow… IF YOU LOOK from the opposite direction, you showed a counterclockwise flow...NOW you FORGOT, which way is the proton spinning? + in conclusion, not very implosive but CAN YOU THINK DEEPER? "ALIEN".
 
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: ayeaye on June 24, 2015, 10:48:32 AM
ELECTRONS move counter or clockwise or even in steps….
Counter-clockwise or clockwise, it only depends on from what side you look. I know electrons don't really revolve around the nucleus, they are structures and don't look like physical bodies. But it doesn't matter, that they revolve, this is an approximation, and even when they move in steps, everything remains essentially the same. Not only electrons but, almost all particles have a spin, and thus they may act like magnetic dipoles. There are these even in vacuum, like particles which only for a short time come to life. This i think is why there can be magnetic fields in vacuum.

Yes and, in what way are neutrons spinning, matters too, if you want to think even deeper. Likely that effect is weaker than the electron spinning though, as they mostly don't consider this. Yet, no matter how it is, this doesn't change anything in essence, an atom may act as a magnetic dipole, because of electrons spinning. Not all atoms can, like i think i heard that the hydrogen atoms cannot, and this may have to do with some of these additional effects.

This alien thing was a joke, and i said that before. This nick, i had to choose some, and couldn't think about any. The story goes, once i said that i'm from Madagascar, in irc, the fun in it was that no one knew where is Madagascar, and knew nothing about it. But at the same time, some guys showed their cgi animals there, very similar to these from the movie Madagascar. So maybe that was where they got the idea to call the movie Madagascar. Well and then, someone started to talk to me about ayeayes. Yes i cannot draw, and that too i have said here earlier. I cannot draw because i don't have a good visual thinking, so this is the way how i can express myself, you have to satisfy with my bad drawings.

And i have to engage in things which i don't know, this is what thinking out something new, always involves.

I answered your questions, now you are still not satisfied, so i cannot figure out what it is what you really want.

Well, i showed my bad drawing, showing how electrons touch each other, in the ##math channel. They said that it's a better idea than some wheeler-feynman ones, which assume some really bizarre things.
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: joel321 on June 24, 2015, 11:49:59 AM
Ayeaye, please just explain what are you thinking in the freeway of electrons in your drawing? AND, what makes you think it is FREEE of protons ONLY “spinning” clockwise? BUTTT, IF THERE IS AN “INDUCTION” THERE IS AN “OUTDUCTION”= counter?!

AT first I thought your where an “alien” here with intelligence trying to “fit in” earth but now I'm 100% sure you are just confused..lol.

Why is it that in your drawing only the electron moves clockwise? EVEN if you show it can move counter? = Your drawing is LAZY!

I was KIND OF HOPING YOU WHERE AN ALIEN HERE POSTING BUT NOW I JUST KNOW YOU ARE JUST MEARLY HUMAN! LOL Most likely a student trying to learn.

Can you tell me that you are a mischievous alien that is trying to learn something new REGARDING HUMANS AND BROKE THE "ALIEN" LAWS TO UNDERSTAND SUCH THING AND THAT YOU WILL GET killes by the president for trying to get rid of GREED! OR, can you tell me that "the president" wants his wife to live for ever?

LOL I have a feeling that your drawing is pretty simple to understand in your frequency thaght thought> meh! Take that as an insult STUDENT! lol
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: ayeaye on June 24, 2015, 02:08:15 PM
Can you tell me that you are a mischievous alien that is trying to learn something new REGARDING HUMANS AND BROKE THE "ALIEN" LAWS TO UNDERSTAND SUCH THING AND THAT YOU WILL GET killes by the president for trying to get rid of GREED! OR, can you tell me that "the president" wants his wife to live for ever?
Well, this is funny :)
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: joel321 on June 25, 2015, 06:18:14 AM
Ayeaye, my brain just goes on to this crazy wave thinking that only I can understand it's thinking. Sometimes my brain waves are my worse enemies lying to me...sometimes my brain waves makes me see the truth. It's crazy how “learning” works. = for ever action there is an equal an opposite reaction BUT there has to be more POSITIVE reaction on order to move forward!!! The human brain will keep on learning for infinity. Not just the human brain also bird brains, like the crow, will keep on evolving to learn as long as their population continues on to live. = there is no stopping of the waves of learning in the core of the brain = size does not matter when it comes to brains intelligence thinking. = problem solver = see truth! But that something for another forum.

You mention A LOT of things that you need to back up with real evidence...for example…

Quote
I know electrons don't really revolve around the nucleus, they are structures and don't look like physical bodies.

Now I’m assuming you are basing this from our human limits of understanding the quantum? = visual perspective. What is the physical body of an electron constructed of? It seems to me that flesh has electrons, metal has electrons, glass has electrons, water has electrons, air has electrons, rocks has electrons, SO how do the electrons look from all I mentioned? I'm assuming even in outer space there are electrons floating around. Please show me a picture of any matter electron particle?

Also, I really want to understand your picture of “Induction” ...I can look at it for minutes and does not mean any engineering architecture blue print to the ideas in your brain!

1- What does those two lines that hold a negative bubble represent?

2- What does those two protons represent on the paper?

3- That drawing needs WAYYY more input for a visual animal to be ale to understand the “a picture speaks a thousand words”. 
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: ayeaye on June 25, 2015, 03:07:06 PM
Please show me a picture of any matter electron particle?

Also, I really want to understand your picture of “Induction” ...I can look at it for minutes and does not mean any engineering architecture blue print to the ideas in your brain!

1- What does those two lines that hold a negative bubble represent?

2- What does those two protons represent on the paper?

3- That drawing needs WAYYY more input for a visual animal to be ale to understand the “a picture speaks a thousand words”.

Well, i said that electron is a structure. I'm at odds in that, one cannot see such structures anywhere around. Except inside a cell, the cytoskeleton there is a changing network which forms such structures, like on the picture below. There is also a huge amount of such structure in a brain cell, more than in any other cell. Scientists tell us that this has nothing to do with the human thinking, and brain cells are just a primitive logic elements. Ayeayes don't think so, because their thinking is different.

This my picture of induction is very approximate, it is minimal only to give an idea.

The two lines that hold a negative bubble on my picture of induction, represent a wire of course. The negative bubble inside it is an electron. The protons represent the nuclei of atoms, there are more protons mostly, but this depicts a simple case. The electron near a proton there, is the electron that orbits the nucleus of the atom. This is like an atom depicted from "the top", so the electron orbits on the plane of the drawing. Atoms are magnetic dipoles, because of the electrons orbiting the nucleus. Already Ampere said that, he didn't know about electrons, but he thought that there is a circular current in the atom. The atoms are also orientated the way they are on the picture, when there is a small real current (movement of electrons) from down to up. This is also based on what Ampere said, the dipoles orientate in that way because they attract the most when the electrons in them and in the wire, move in the same direction.

The rest is my idea, as much as i know not said by anyone else, though i cannot be sure. The conventional explanation is by Lorentz factors, which i'm not sure whether it does or does not explain the same. This depicted there is the same about every electron in the wire. It is assumed that the electron at first stands still.

The picture shows two moments, one following the other. At first the dipole is further away from the wire, and the electron in it is at an earlier position on its orbit. Next (below) the dipole has moved closer to the wire, and the electron in the dipole has moved further on its orbit. This shows any two moments when the electron in the dipole is below the electron in the wire, and above the electron in the wire, at equal distances.

Now consider for now that the distance of the dipole from the wire does not change. Then at the first moment the speed which the electron in the dipole gives to the electron in the wire, is upwards. At the second moment the electron in the dipole gives to the electron in the wire an equal speed downwards. But because that speed is opposite to the speed with which the electron moved, as the final result the electron in the wire still stands still. This is why an unchanging magnetic field does not induce a current in the wire.

Now when the dipole moves towards the wire, everything is the same as described above. Except that the speed that the electron in the dipole gives to the electron in the wire is less at first, and greater next time, because meanwhile the dipole has moved closer to the wire, and thus the force to the electron is greater. Thus as the result, in the end the electron gets a speed downwards. This is how the movement of the dipole in relation to the wire, provides the asymmetry that makes the electrons in the wire to move. Also the speed that the electron gets is opposite to the initial current that caused the dipoles to orientate and move, this shows that induction causes an electromotive force that works against the current that caused it. As Faraday also found it to be.

I were talking about speed, but the same happens no matter how slow the speed is, that is how much resistance there is in the circuit. The asymmetry causing the electrons to move, is the same no matter how much resistance there is. So one may consider that the movement of the dipole towards the wire causes a force that makes the electrons to move. It is dynamic but, one may consider that there is a force to the electrons. This force is called an electromotive force, as Faraday called it.

Faraday could not explain the induction in that way, because the electrons were not yet discovered then. So he explained it through a magnetic field, because the magnetic field in a permanent magnet is also caused by the same magnetic dipoles, that is atoms. But magnetic field is also just a rotating electrostatic field. When two dipoles are against each other so that the electrons of both revolve on a parallel planes, then the dipoles attract each other when their electrons revolve in the same direction, and repulse each other when their electrons revolve in the opposite directions. Again for the same reason what Ampere said.

This were better to be discussed in my thread "What is induction?" here, but i answer questions anywhere they are asked. I hope that i could explain it clearly enough, i will answer any further questions, and i'm glad if anyone has anything else to say about that.
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: joel321 on June 26, 2015, 07:18:57 AM
You said A LOT of things that are interesting ideas, BUT what causes an “electron” to stay the same in glass for example? If I put magnetic dust on top of the glass (which the glass has electrons) and a magnet at the bottom part of the glass, why NOT make electron from the glass effect it's glass form? There are electrons in the glass, there are electrons in the magnetic dust, there are electrons in the magnet BUT yet all keep their form UNTIL they are melted...as if heat gives birth to the structure of STATIC/DYNAMIC electrons. SO we have diversity electrons and an electron is not 100% the same in all. So they must have different structures upon themselves.

1- glass electron a
2- rock electron b
3- water electron c
4- electron on a copper wire d
and so on.

I'm sure there are static electrons and dynamic electrons. That could also be said about protons. BUT they all have to be moving either slow or 5 times the speed of light! Everything needs to move since if it does not, then it gets canceled out.

That picture you provided does not make sense to me. I kind of have a feeling that you are trying to explain air, we breathe it but we can't explain it. It is already there, but you are trying hard to explain why it is there lol.

Can you provide more pictures of your understanding?
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: ayeaye on June 26, 2015, 11:07:48 AM
That picture you provided does not make sense to me.
I did not try to show a picture of an electron, i cannot. I just showed something made of the similar structure i think the electrons and other particles are made of, so there also should be similarities. I did it just because Jim36 asked. This structure, btw, is in constant movement, that is constant change. Everything consists of change, nothing unchanging can exist, at least not for long. This change is its vibration and provides its frequency. This is also why it can be perceived both as a particle and a wave.

Such structure can go through things, particles can go through each other and overlap each other. But the structures keep their integrity, certain patterns of network connections distinguish them from all the rest. This also happens in a cell. People cannot understand the quantum, because they don't know that such structures exist.

Ok, if you think this was not a good picture of an electron, then what about that below? This is a ball lightning. See the similarities? Nature repeats on a higher level, that which is on the lower level.
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: joel321 on June 27, 2015, 08:18:38 AM
Sigh! Just trying to learn mother earth! As expected because you cannot understand how you were born  from a female and male. Now when you understand how you where born from a mother an a father, THEN we can move on learning further about life! DO you understand that a mother and a father did not create you? Or a father and father did not create you? OK.

DUDE! If you are showing me such picture to “define” an electron, YOU ARE WAYYYYYY BEHIND! Your MIND thinking is not even close to the quantum thinking! I will agree that you are looking in the “intelligent” way BUT if those pictures you see makes you understand the QUANTUM you need a better camera with more pixels.

You are showing a bolt of lightning but show a bolt of air? The only reason that you can see the bolt is because the visual animal can see the gathered energy! HOW does that REDUCE all the way to the quantum where electrons are even in poop?

You need to show me an electron picture that an electron microscope took of an electron!
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: ayeaye on June 27, 2015, 04:54:20 PM
The only reason that you can see the bolt is because the visual animal can see the gathered energy!
This is not the way i see the quantum, these pictures were for "visual animals". I see electron, that is any particle, as a changing structure of connections. But i cannot depict it. There are certain geometric structures, so that connecting to the from inside is different than connecting to them from outside. This is how particle keeps its integrity. By these geometric structures it is also possible to identify particles. Particles seek connections to other particles.

But these pictures are not air, these are manifestations of something real. Did you notice that one picture was about a structure in a cell, and the other picture was about a ball lightning, and these are similar? This should say you something, these are in essence the same structures. So it should give some idea about what they are if you can think about it, this is not air.

Electron microscope doesn't show electrons, it only shows the field. That is the average interactions of electrons, it doesn't show electrons.
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: joel321 on June 28, 2015, 12:46:27 PM
As I was thinking, I hit a wall! 100%. If I ever stop thinking I would stop living!. SO if my thoughts are “electrons” they must keep on revolving/moving in this outer “dark' matter.

SO no matter what, my brain electron wave thinking will continue to think since you cannot satisfy my brain waves! And if you think about it with your small brain, we are, right now, engaged in a “vortex” thinking of neuron waves! The outcome will be very beautiful for others! SPECIALLY FOR THOSE BEING MANIPULATED BY GREED! Lol But those smart people are also paying attention!

I'm not afraid in understanding the electron nor the proton! IT IS JUST THAT A PROTON CAN MAKE FUN OF YOU IF IT COULD SPEAK! lol
Title: Re: All You Know is Wrong - That's Official ;-)
Post by: Spilled Fluids on June 28, 2015, 05:21:26 PM
As I was thinking, I hit a wall! 100%. If I ever stop thinking I would stop living!. SO if my thoughts are “electrons” they must keep on revolving/moving in this outer “dark' matter.

SO no matter what, my brain electron wave thinking will continue to think since you cannot satisfy my brain waves! And if you think about it with your small brain, we are, right now, engaged in a “vortex” thinking of neuron waves! The outcome will be very beautiful for others! SPECIALLY FOR THOSE BEING MANIPULATED BY GREED! Lol But those smart people are also paying attention!

I'm not afraid in understanding the electron nor the proton! IT IS JUST THAT A PROTON CAN MAKE FUN OF YOU IF IT COULD SPEAK! lol

What; your foil helmet blew off in a brain storm?