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Author Topic: Confessions of khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Oklahoma City, PanAm 800 and American 587  (Read 34747 times)

Offline MarkE

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OK, you mentioned downed light poles...why would a missile hit the light poles in the first place?  If someone launched a missile, there would be no need for such a low level flat trajectory right?  If one were to argue that they wanted it to look like an aircraft, then why use such a flat flight path which would look suspicious to folks like yourself?

Bill
Maybe they weren't light poles.  Maybe they were special drones painted to look like light poles.

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Offline Red_Sunset

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You all can argue this case indefinitely,  but one thing should be clear (as in OU), it never is what you think it is

Neither does the one who claims overunity for months or years, has mastered overunity (a good current example is EMjunkie)
But that doesn't mean there isn't a smoking gun.

We might not know the in's or out's of what or how, but that doesn't pre-empt a claim
What we can say with confidence,
1.. The pentagon evidence does not match the story given (damage to the building & aircraft debris shown)
2.. The collapse of the WTC did not match the pancaking theory.  (the no resistance free fall collapse & the lack of a partial but substantial remaining center core standing)
3.. The custom implosion of building 7, ( a building on fire, a decision was made to pull the building down, time required to rig for implosion...just impossibe without pre-meditated pre-work done to execute this action)
4.. Pictures of the debris field of the crashed plane in PA did not come to a near match of any previous known crashes fields

"What and how" is under discussion here and might never get an answer,  although to get closer to the truth we can add "the motive",  this doesn't need much discussion,  it became very clear soon after the event.   A counter action to defuse an enemy party that does you harm is understandable, but that is not exactly what happened.

Lest assume that the events were exactly as claimed, was the extend of the reaction warranted or was the reaction driven by other motives?   If you say the latter, that would definitely put the initial assumption into doubt

Just to get some perspective on this event, switch yourself into the shoes of the other party.
Lets take a current event, like a US drone strike in some other country like Pakistan or Yemen.   Should they come and invade the US because of that event and include Canada because they were in the neighborhood and they didn't like the their Prime Minister ?

See the bigger picture.  The US does what it does became it can!, because it has the superior technology, not because it is morally right or otherwise.   Lets call a spade a spade!.

Red_Sunset

Offline MarkE

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You all can argue this case indefinitely,  but one thing should be clear (as in OU), it never is what you think it is

Neither does the one who claims overunity for months or years, has mastered overunity (a good current example is EMjunkie)
But that doesn't mean there isn't a smoking gun.

We might not know the in's or out's of what or how, but that doesn't pre-empt a claim
What we can say with confidence,
1.. The pentagon evidence does not match the story given (damage to the building & aircraft debris shown)
2.. The collapse of the WTC did not match the pancaking theory.  (the no resistance free fall collapse & the lack of a partial but substantial remaining center core standing)
3.. The custom implosion of building 7, ( a building on fire, a decision was made to pull the building down, time required to rig for implosion...just impossibe without pre-meditated pre-work done to execute this action)
4.. Pictures of the debris field of the crashed plane in PA did not come to a near match of any previous known crashes fields

"What and how" is under discussion here and might never get an answer,  although to get closer to the truth we can add "the motive",  this doesn't need much discussion,  it became very clear soon after the event.   A counter action to defuse an enemy party that does you harm is understandable, but that is not exactly what happened.

Lest assume that the events were exactly as claimed, was the extend of the reaction warranted or was the reaction driven by other motives?   If you say the latter, that would definitely put the initial assumption into doubt

Just to get some perspective on this event, switch yourself into the shoes of the other party.
Lets take a current event, like a US drone strike in some other country like Pakistan or Yemen.   Should they come and invade the US because of that event and include Canada because they were in the neighborhood and they didn't like the their Prime Minister ?

See the bigger picture.  The US does what it does became it can!, because it has the superior technology, not because it is morally right or otherwise.   Lets call a spade a spade!.

Red_Sunset
Declaring conclusions does not make them right.  What is remarkable to me is that people wander off on speculations where they easily discredit themselves by jumping to conclusions, while ignoring what is indisputable, wrong, and in need of public action.  The physical mechanics of 9/11 are a flea speck compared to the evil that has been done in the name of avenging 9/11 and preventing further terrorism.

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Offline Red_Sunset

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Declaring conclusions does not make them right.  What is remarkable to me is that people wander off on speculations where they easily discredit themselves by jumping to conclusions, while ignoring what is indisputable, wrong, and in need of public action.
 
The physical mechanics of 9/11 are a flea speck compared to the evil that has been done in the name of avenging 9/11 and preventing further terrorism.

I couldn't agree more !

Offline synchro1

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Synchro,
It is purely a matter how you see the world around you.
A presidential candidate who would NOT have a willingness to go along with future deceptions, would never get elected. He most probably will be discredited in the early stages of the process.
You might not hold the same viewpoint, but from my angle, the running of a country is no one man show. It is directed by board committee type process, there is a public committee (representatives & senators), but there is a also a background (shadow) committee.   The one is an public elected committee, the other one is just 'power' & 'money'.   
There is a saying, "birds of a feather flock together",  if you then consider anybody who has a "fair chunk of lot of money" would be of similar position and circle in life, usually would associate together due to similar interest, in addition to other interests they would  conspire where is the best money to be made and together will do similar investments to increase their earnings.  It is a natural and inevitable merge of common interests and I would guess this happens on different levels in a similar way.

On the next level, big companies, big banks & big money are no different, although in additional they can wield big power and control on a regional or national level to expand their fortunes. 
When this "big" reaches a certain threshold, there is not much to stop it.  Today in this process of growth has gone to a international level as was seen in colonial times.  The commercial interest would expand into the world under crown protection (mutual interest).  Although we have now come to a point where commercial power has overtaken the crown in wealth and power.  The power has shifted.
In the world economy, big money interests have overtaken regional or national interests and provide the opportunity to make more money quicker.  This went hand in hand with a side effect, the power to control on who will be rich or poor.
USA is a good example of being stripped to the bone, only a magical transformation will save this country(a possibility).  That power & control is not with the people nor their president but with the big industrial & financial complex.  The president is only a front man for the 2 committees that are lopsided towards big money, this limits the freedom of the whole structure .
In a democracy of today, if we take into account the lobbying influence, I would guess that the public at best exercise only 1/4 of the governing control and the president is no different.

PS:   How quick and by which method was the 2007 financial crisis loan to the banks approved ?  It was so quick that  nobody had time to read the document.  What is power?, what is BIG power?  What can it really do?  something to think about.

Deceptions are there to execute shadow agendas,  I would guess the president should be seen more as a coordinator to the interests at hand, he needs to be compliant to a certain level otherwise I would doubt if he would have gotten that position to start of with. Sure he has controlling power for house keeping and daily run of the country.
 If at any time using, aiding or aligning with an Islamic fundamentalist group to achieve a desired objective at hand, a moral or national or patriotic objection would not stop this drive. The long term power & control objectives are what matters (that is how I think business is done here). 
Real life "Democracy" doesn't necessary mean exactly what is written in the dictionary or constitution.
An understanding we will need to come to terms with in this century. A new world has arrived (sometime I wonder if are destined by the outline of certain predictions)

PS:  What is REAL power? .  BTW who owns your house that is under mortgage loan?  The bank ?
                                                  BTW, who owns all those trillions of government debt of the US ?  So who own the US gov?
                                                 BTW, it is no different for many other countries with IMF or World Bank loans.
                                                 BTW,  Who controls Greece now? Not the people, not their elected Gov.
It is not a question that he country doesn't have wealth or money, the problem that most of the money is the hands of a limited number of people who exercise the power & control this money give them to achieve their set objectives.  These objectives do not necessary meet the national democratic expectations of the citizen.

***   a little paragraph pulled from wikipedia (JP Morgan), this happened already 100yrs ago, what happens today ?

//   In 1895, at the depths of the Panic of 1893, the Federal Treasury was nearly out of gold. President Grover Cleveland accepted Morgan's offer to join with the Rothschilds and supply the U.S. Treasury with 3.5 million ounces of gold[6] to restore the treasury surplus in exchange for a 30-year bond issue. The episode saved the Treasury but hurt Cleveland's standing with the agrarian wing of the Democratic Party, and became an issue in the election of 1896, when banks came under a withering attack from William Jennings Bryan. Morgan and Wall Street bankers donated heavily to Republican William McKinley, who was elected in 1896 and re-elected in 1900.[7]  //

//    The Panic of 1907 was a financial crisis that almost crippled the American economy. Major New York banks were on the verge of bankruptcy and there was no mechanism to rescue them, until Morgan stepped in to help resolve the crisis.[11][12] Treasury Secretary George B. Cortelyou earmarked $35 million of federal money to quell the storm but had no easy way to use it. Morgan now took personal charge. Meeting with the nation's leading financiers in his New York mansion, he forced them to devise a plan to meet the crisis. James Stillman, president of the National City Bank, also played a central role. Morgan organized a team of bank and trust executives which redirected money between banks, secured further international lines of credit, and bought up the plummeting stocks of healthy corporations.[11]  //


Red_Sunset

@Red__Sunset,

The government relied on private bankers to cope with insolvency in the past. When the fiat "Green Back" expires from War squandering the Banks will help evolve the Cashless economy. This involves digital "World Money", and loss of privacy.   

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Offline Red_Sunset

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@Red__Sunset,

The government relied on private bankers to cope with insolvency in the past. When the fiat "Green Back" expires from War squandering the Banks will help evolve the Cashless economy. This involves digital "World Money", and loss of privacy.

Synchro, 
Yes, bankers is a subject by itself.  The times are changing and banks are becoming more greedy, no surprise they post such incredible profit margins at the end of the year, and super bonuses.  We have already reached the "negative interest" level, you pay the bank for them to hold your money.  Do a google with 'negative interest', it is happening already in Switzerland.
The laws of Thermodynamics apply here. no free lunch here except if you are in the financial power seat.
You are right, cashless control is coming, but I can not see it to become absolute. If enforced, I am sure a sub-world, like black market will develop based on the old ways.  Who knows ?

Privacy, you have lost that already. You are already everywhere, not much you can do about it.  You want to make it worse, get a "smart phone" and a "Facebook" account.
People voluntary give up their privacy. To be hooked into the WWW is bi-directional, like mutual inductance or Bemf or friction.
The laws of physics and life are quite consistent throughout nature.

Red_Sunset
« Last Edit: May 31, 2015, 05:48:47 PM by Red_Sunset »

Offline Hoppy

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Declaring conclusions does not make them right.  What is remarkable to me is that people wander off on speculations where they easily discredit themselves by jumping to conclusions, while ignoring what is indisputable, wrong, and in need of public action.  The physical mechanics of 9/11 are a flea speck compared to the evil that has been done in the name of avenging 9/11 and preventing further terrorism.

Much speculation indicates a deep interest and underlying push for truth and in the case of 9/11 the monstrous evil that followed this tragic event has focused minds on the true motives for the event.



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Offline MarkE

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Much speculation indicates a deep interest and underlying push for truth and in the case of 9/11 the monstrous evil that followed this tragic event has focused minds on the true motives for the event.
I see a lot of energy put into silly ideas like nano-thermite, and dustifying space beams that does absoutely nothing to marshal against the infinite wars abroad, the decimation of the Constitution at home, the prospect that a two very chummy family dynasty will have run the country for 28 out of 36 years, or that the too big to fail financial institutions that are being subsidized to the tune of nearly $400 billion per year, have not only not been reformed, are taking bigger risks than ever.  These are all huge crimes in progress.

Offline Pirate88179

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I see a lot of energy put into silly ideas like nano-thermite, and dustifying space beams that does absoutely nothing to marshal against the infinite wars abroad, the decimation of the Constitution at home, the prospect that a two very chummy family dynasty will have run the country for 28 out of 36 years, or that the too big to fail financial institutions that are being subsidized to the tune of nearly $400 billion per year, have not only not been reformed, are taking bigger risks than ever.  These are all huge crimes in progress.

The "Too Big To Fail" doctrine goes against the basic fundamentals of capitalism and free markets.  If a company can not survive in the current market, then they fail...period.  If they are too big, then let's look at the Sherman Act and other legislation to see how they were allowed to get that big in the first place.  No company is too big to fail.  I am a free market guy and I say, let the chips fall where they may.  Using peoples hard earned tax money to prop up a failing company is not the way to go.  The way this was done is fascism.  Same with the auto makers or any other business.

Just my opinion.

Bill

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Offline Red_Sunset

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The "Too Big To Fail" doctrine goes against the basic fundamentals of capitalism and free markets.  If a company can not survive in the current market, then they fail...period.  If they are too big, then let's look at the Sherman Act and other legislation to see how they were allowed to get that big in the first place.  No company is too big to fail.  I am a free market guy and I say, let the chips fall where they may.  Using peoples hard earned tax money to prop up a failing company is not the way to go.  The way this was done is fascism.  Same with the auto makers or any other business.

Just my opinion.

Bill
You make a good point Bill  (highlited)
The other impact that is commonly overlooked is how those "too big too fail" Banks,  absorbed many smaller banks >> increasing the monopoly size even more.  I don't remember the exact number of banks operating in the US after the financial crisis but the reduction was dramatic.  The financial crisis served the big boys well in capturing a bigger share of the market.
Red


Offline Hoppy

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I see a lot of energy put into silly ideas like nano-thermite, and dustifying space beams that does absoutely nothing to marshal against the infinite wars abroad, the decimation of the Constitution at home, the prospect that a two very chummy family dynasty will have run the country for 28 out of 36 years, or that the too big to fail financial institutions that are being subsidized to the tune of nearly $400 billion per year, have not only not been reformed, are taking bigger risks than ever.  These are all huge crimes in progress.

Some silly ideas have changed the world and will continue to do so. Much explosive energy was released on 9/11 and in reaction continues to be released in human emotion. The truth is now staring many of us in the face!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Red_Sunset

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I see a lot of energy put into silly ideas like nano-thermite, and dustifying space beams that does absoutely nothing to marshal against the infinite wars abroad, the decimation of the Constitution at home, the prospect that a two very chummy family dynasty will have run the country for 28 out of 36 years, or that the too big to fail financial institutions that are being subsidized to the tune of nearly $400 billion per year, have not only not been reformed, are taking bigger risks than ever.  These are all huge crimes in progress.
Mark,
Just your take on 911, 
In your view, if you exclude termite, why was there no core column remaining after the collapse of the outer floors in a pancake ?
Decimation of the constitution & wars abroad.>>  If only a few are prepared to defend the constitution and the rest is only prepared to bitch and not use their brains. when they hear the propaganda that is carefully orchestrated by powers that be. A natural result.
In addition to what is in progress, bigger and more shocking crimes can be expected in the near future.
The tube was forecasting today, an expected dead toll by police shooting of over 1000 in USA by the end of the year at the current killing rate.  I wonder if it is the result of the wild West training in Bagdad?
Red

Offline Pirate88179

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Mark,
Just your take on 911, 
In your view, if you exclude termite, why was there no core column remaining after the collapse of the outer floors in a pancake ?
Decimation of the constitution & wars abroad.>>  If only a few are prepared to defend the constitution and the rest is only prepared to bitch and not use their brains. when they hear the propaganda that is carefully orchestrated by powers that be. A natural result.
In addition to what is in progress, bigger and more shocking crimes can be expected in the near future.
The tube was forecasting today, an expected dead toll by police shooting of over 1000 in USA by the end of the year at the current killing rate.  I wonder if it is the result of the wild West training in Bagdad?
Red

Red:

My understanding was that the twin towers were constructed of an exoskeleton...meaning, the main supports were on the outside of the building and the floors were connected to the outside framework.  One of the after action reports showed that the building contractor used inferior bolts (which were cheaper) to attach the floor beams to the framework.  The heat weakened these bolts and, once the upper floors collapsed, the pancake was the result.  I am not a building engineer so I can not speak to how true this is but, if true, it makes sense.

As far as deaths caused by police, I think your numbers are off.  (I read that it was 60) Even if they are not, have you ever been to any of the areas these guys have to work in?  If you are a cop, and 3 guys run at you and go for their guns, you have to defend yourself.  It is that simple.  Out of the millions and millions of folks protected by the cops, even your number, which I still think is pretty high, is not that bad.

Are all cops good?  Hell no.  Just watch some youtube videos and you can see that there are some that should not be on the force.  Of course, some of those videos are guys trying to bait the cops so they can make a video but still, most of them are just trying to do their job and go home alive.

Try going to Baltimore and walk around at night.  If you are white, you will be attacked by someone.  Heck, even if you are black, you will still get attacked.  The high (record high) murder rate in Baltimore has only happened since the Feds ordered the cops to stop doing patrols and only answer calls from citizens.  Then, and I love this, the mayor blames the cops for not doing their job yet it was the Justice department that ordered no more neighborhood patrols.  It was the Mayor and the State attorney that called in the Feds.  Totally stupid.

My brother lives there and I would not even think of visiting him without being armed.  It is like a war zone as are so many of our inner city locations.
He is afraid to leave his house as innocent folks are being targeted by gang members.  60 murders last month alone.  Look at Chicago...same thing...LA, NY City, etc.  I would not want to be a cop in this day and age.  You do your job and then get charged with murder...nice.

Bill

Offline MarkE

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Some silly ideas have changed the world and will continue to do so. Much explosive energy was released on 9/11 and in reaction continues to be released in human emotion. The truth is now staring many of us in the face!
When detonating a shaped charge:  Pay attention to which way you point it.

Offline MarkE

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Mark,
Just your take on 911, 
In your view, if you exclude termite, why was there no core column remaining after the collapse of the outer floors in a pancake ?
Decimation of the constitution & wars abroad.>>  If only a few are prepared to defend the constitution and the rest is only prepared to bitch and not use their brains. when they hear the propaganda that is carefully orchestrated by powers that be. A natural result.
In addition to what is in progress, bigger and more shocking crimes can be expected in the near future.
The tube was forecasting today, an expected dead toll by police shooting of over 1000 in USA by the end of the year at the current killing rate.  I wonder if it is the result of the wild West training in Bagdad?
Red
The NIST reports are quite thorough in their explanation of the structural failures in WTC1, WTC2, and WTC7. Thermite is not suitable to a CD.  The main proponent of the the nano-thermite nonsense is a guy whose experimental and analysis skills are so awful that he mistakes scope probe noise for 8X overunity.  Even further into the bushes is the bat shit insane Judy Wood who thinks that a nearly horizontal smoke plume from the north tower was a cloud racing to the heavens from the south tower because of "dustifying beams". 

Civil engineering advances one disaster at a time.    Even though the WTC towers were intended to withstand an airliner crash, a combination of factors caused that best made plan to fail.  9/11 has caused building codes to change dramatically.  The new tower has a very different, and much stronger and more resilent core as a result.

Statistics on police shootings have always been difficult to obtain.  Without them it is hard to tell if the tragedy of 1000 is an improvement or the situation is getting worse.  Compared to other forms of preventable carnage the horror of unjustified police shootings is small potatoes.  The bat shit crazy gun nuts are pushing an agenda of more guns openly carried by anyone, whether or not they have adequate training.  A lot of the police shootings are trained individuals reacting to adrenaline.  That can only get worse with people who are not trained.

The power that we have is still at the polls.  We have an election next year.  What if a large number of people voted against the sure bet of Bush/Clinton in the primaries?

 

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