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Author Topic: Confessions of khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Oklahoma City, PanAm 800 and American 587  (Read 33588 times)

Offline MarkE

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Sure, it is all speculation !
What is of interest to observe how the Bush government was well prepared to make the most out of the event.
And what reflects back to the probability of being a controlling participant was the apparent  'blindness' to the event about to take place by the CIA & FBI.  Not many people believe that Osama could have pulled this off unaided. It was a project of mutual interest and with only one to take the blame
Sure, its all speculation
We can only speculate on what events that occurred were within the plan and on what occurred outside the plan
But of one thing I am fairly sure, there was a plan.
The problem is identifying what was planned and what was executed.  If you believe it was a military black op then you are way short in the evidence department.
Quote

When it comes to a flying plane into the WTC,  it played over and over again. 
What would be the resistance not to show the Pentagon surveillance video's, I heard several view angles exist but were confiscated.   At the same time it is no problem to show video footage of the military operation to capture Osama. 
I don't go by "I have heard."  I go by what evidence is actually shown.
Quote
They could have confiscated /forbidden all footage of the plane attack on the WTC,  What judgement would have been used to show or not to show the pentagon attack ?
Red
Lots of people could have done lots of things.  Get evidence to show that they did a particular thing.

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Offline synchro1

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The problem is identifying what was planned and what was executed.  If you believe it was a military black op then you are way short in the evidence department.I don't go by "I have heard."  I go by what evidence is actually shown.Lots of people could have done lots of things.  Get evidence to show that they did a particular thing.

@MarkE,

I'm a former Navy Pilot with thousands of successful landings under all kinds of conditions. Let me repeat that it's physically impossible for an aircraft to fly as close to the ground, as flight 77 was supposed to have, above cruise speed due to "Ground Effect". The best it could do is impact the second story. The aircraft would need to slow down to landing speed and lower it's flaps before it could descend to that low an altitude. No qualified pilot would disagree with me. Don't try and tell me how little I know about it. You have a history of acting like a "know it all" about things you're totally wrong about. I'm right about this fact, don't continue to try and contradict me about it!

Offline MarkE

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@MarkE,

I'm a former Navy Pilot with thousands of successful landings under all kinds of conditions. Let me repeat that it's physically impossible for an aircraft to fly as close to the ground, as flight 77 was supposed to have, above cruise speed due to "Ground Effect". The best it could do is impact the second story. The aircraft would need to slow down to landing speed and lower it's flaps before it could descend to that low an altitude. No qualified pilot would disagree with me. Don't try and tell me how little I know about it. You have a history of acting like a "know it all" about things you're totally wrong about. I'm right about this fact, don't continue to try and contradict me about it!
When you say things like it would need to extend flaps because of excess lift from ground effect, it makes me question that you understand the physical principles involved independent of what your flying experience may or may not be.  Extending flaps increases lift which is important during slow flight.  As TK's linked videos showed it is not only possible, it is demonstrated that passenger craft can cruise the runway doing touch and gos.  If your idea of fact is mere declaration then it is you who refuse to discuss.

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Offline synchro1

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@MalarkE,

Flaps not only increase lift, they help reduce airspeed. A "No Flap" landing requires a longer runway because "Ground Effect" prevents the aircraft from touching down until it approaches stall speed. I don't care to be tutored by you in basic aeronautics. You need to stop acting too smart.

Offline MarkE

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@MalarkE,

Flaps not only increase lift, they help reduce airspeed. A "No Flap" landing requires a longer runway because "Ground Effect" prevents the aircraft from touching down until it approaches stall speed. I don't care to be tutored by you in basic aeronautics. You need to stop acting too smart.
Are you sure you used to be a pilot?  Yes, flaps increase drag, but their primary purpose is to increase lift which is critical at low air speed conditions:  take off and landing.  IOW they prevent stall at low air speed.  A "no flap" landing requires a long runway because the aircraft has a higher stall speed than with flaps.  Stall at take off or landing is spelled: P L O P.

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Offline synchro1

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Unlike the attack on the World Trade Center, the attack on the Pentagon was not broadcast on live television. In fact, within the first hours of the attack, the FBI had confiscated 84 surveillance videos from dozens of locations nearly all of which have never been released.

The "9/11 Commission Report" makes no mention of the first explosion. The Pentagon was first attacked shortly after 9:30 a.m. – well before 9:37:46, when the "Official Version" says a plane hit the building from the outside.

Below is a photograph of the clock stopped by the first explosion from the "Pentagon Fire Station" on 9/11, currently on display at the Smithsonian.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2015, 01:44:17 AM by synchro1 »

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Offline synchro1

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On September 14, the DOD announced that they had found the "Voice Recorder" black box from flight 77 along with the "Flight Data Recorder" from september 11. Both black boxes for Flight 77 were turned over to the NTSB. However, neither the data of the flight data recorders, nor the voice from the voice recorder from Flight 77 has ever been released.

What I find particularly perplexing, is that none of the major political candidates for the Presidency in 2016, has questioned the validity of the 9/11 Commission findings; As if to signal their willingness to continue to go along with future deceptions.

Offline SeaMonkey

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Quote from: MarkE
Are you sure you used to be a pilot?  Yes, flaps increase drag, but their primary purpose is to increase lift which is critical at low air speed conditions:  take off and landing.  IOW they prevent stall at low air speed.  A "no flap" landing requires a long runway because the aircraft has a higher stall speed than with flaps.  Stall at take off or landing is spelled: P L O P.

What is very obvious Mark is that you've stalled.

You're clearly not an aviator.

Offline MarkE

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What is very obvious Mark is that you've stalled.

You're clearly not an aviator.
LOL, if you think so.  Are you going to offer some argument with evidence or just throw mud?

Offline Red_Sunset

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.............................................................
What I find particularly perplexing, is that none of the major political candidates for the Presidency in 2016, has questioned the validity of the 9/11 Commission findings; As if to signal their willingness to continue to go along with future deceptions.

Synchro,
It is purely a matter how you see the world around you.
A presidential candidate who would NOT have a willingness to go along with future deceptions, would never get elected. He most probably will be discredited in the early stages of the process.
You might not hold the same viewpoint, but from my angle, the running of a country is no one man show. It is directed by board committee type process, there is a public committee (representatives & senators), but there is a also a background (shadow) committee.   The one is an public elected committee, the other one is just 'power' & 'money'.   
There is a saying, "birds of a feather flock together",  if you then consider anybody who has a "fair chunk of lot of money" would be of similar position and circle in life, usually would associate together due to similar interest, in addition to other interests they would  conspire where is the best money to be made and together will do similar investments to increase their earnings.  It is a natural and inevitable merge of common interests and I would guess this happens on different levels in a similar way.

On the next level, big companies, big banks & big money are no different, although in additional they can wield big power and control on a regional or national level to expand their fortunes. 
When this "big" reaches a certain threshold, there is not much to stop it.  Today in this process of growth has gone to a international level as was seen in colonial times.  The commercial interest would expand into the world under crown protection (mutual interest).  Although we have now come to a point where commercial power has overtaken the crown in wealth and power.  The power has shifted.
In the world economy, big money interests have overtaken regional or national interests and provide the opportunity to make more money quicker.  This went hand in hand with a side effect, the power to control on who will be rich or poor.
USA is a good example of being stripped to the bone, only a magical transformation will save this country(a possibility).  That power & control is not with the people nor their president but with the big industrial & financial complex.  The president is only a front man for the 2 committees that are lopsided towards big money, this limits the freedom of the whole structure .
In a democracy of today, if we take into account the lobbying influence, I would guess that the public at best exercise only 1/4 of the governing control and the president is no different.

PS:   How quick and by which method was the 2007 financial crisis loan to the banks approved ?  It was so quick that  nobody had time to read the document.  What is power?, what is BIG power?  What can it really do?  something to think about.

Deceptions are there to execute shadow agendas,  I would guess the president should be seen more as a coordinator to the interests at hand, he needs to be compliant to a certain level otherwise I would doubt if he would have gotten that position to start of with. Sure he has controlling power for house keeping and daily run of the country.
 If at any time using, aiding or aligning with an Islamic fundamentalist group to achieve a desired objective at hand, a moral or national or patriotic objection would not stop this drive. The long term power & control objectives are what matters (that is how I think business is done here). 
Real life "Democracy" doesn't necessary mean exactly what is written in the dictionary or constitution.
An understanding we will need to come to terms with in this century. A new world has arrived (sometime I wonder if are destined by the outline of certain predictions)

PS:  What is REAL power? .  BTW who owns your house that is under mortgage loan?  The bank ?
                                                  BTW, who owns all those trillions of government debt of the US ?  So who own the US gov?
                                                 BTW, it is no different for many other countries with IMF or World Bank loans.
                                                 BTW,  Who controls Greece now? Not the people, not their elected Gov.
It is not a question that he country doesn't have wealth or money, the problem that most of the money is the hands of a limited number of people who exercise the power & control this money give them to achieve their set objectives.  These objectives do not necessary meet the national democratic expectations of the citizen.

***   a little paragraph pulled from wikipedia (JP Morgan), this happened already 100yrs ago, what happens today ?

//   In 1895, at the depths of the Panic of 1893, the Federal Treasury was nearly out of gold. President Grover Cleveland accepted Morgan's offer to join with the Rothschilds and supply the U.S. Treasury with 3.5 million ounces of gold[6] to restore the treasury surplus in exchange for a 30-year bond issue. The episode saved the Treasury but hurt Cleveland's standing with the agrarian wing of the Democratic Party, and became an issue in the election of 1896, when banks came under a withering attack from William Jennings Bryan. Morgan and Wall Street bankers donated heavily to Republican William McKinley, who was elected in 1896 and re-elected in 1900.[7]  //

//    The Panic of 1907 was a financial crisis that almost crippled the American economy. Major New York banks were on the verge of bankruptcy and there was no mechanism to rescue them, until Morgan stepped in to help resolve the crisis.[11][12] Treasury Secretary George B. Cortelyou earmarked $35 million of federal money to quell the storm but had no easy way to use it. Morgan now took personal charge. Meeting with the nation's leading financiers in his New York mansion, he forced them to devise a plan to meet the crisis. James Stillman, president of the National City Bank, also played a central role. Morgan organized a team of bank and trust executives which redirected money between banks, secured further international lines of credit, and bought up the plummeting stocks of healthy corporations.[11]  //


Red_Sunset

Offline picowatt

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On September 14, the DOD announced that they had found the "Voice Recorder" black box from flight 77 along with the "Flight Data Recorder" from september 11. Both black boxes for Flight 77 were turned over to the NTSB. However, neither the data of the flight data recorders, nor the voice from the voice recorder from Flight 77 has ever been released.

What I find particularly perplexing, is that none of the major political candidates for the Presidency in 2016, has questioned the validity of the 9/11 Commission findings; As if to signal their willingness to continue to go along with future deceptions.

According to the NTSB, the CVR used magnetic tape which was fused into a solid mass from the heat of the fire and no data was able to be recovered from the CVR.  However, the FDR data has been available from the NTSB for quite some time.  The FDR data shows 77 doing about 300 KIAS when it impacted (no flaps, no slats, gear up...).

Offline synchro1

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According to the NTSB, the CVR used magnetic tape which was fused into a solid mass from the heat of the fire and no data was able to be recovered from the CVR.  However, the FDR data has been available from the NTSB for quite some time.  The FDR data shows 77 doing about 300 KIAS when it impacted (no flaps, no slats, gear up...).

@Picowatt,

Here's another interesting anomaly:

"A flight data file created by the downloaded Flight Data Recorder information of American Airlines flight 77 was created on Thursday, September 13, 2001 at 11:45pm. However, as reported by USA Today, Pentagon spokesman Army Lt. Col. George Rhynedance reported that the FDR for AA 77 was recovered on Friday, September 14, 2001 at 4am, 4 hours and 15 minutes after the creation of the AA 77 FDR data file".

Offline picowatt

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@Picowatt,

Here's another interesting anomaly:

"A flight data file created by the downloaded Flight Data Recorder information of American Airlines flight 77 was created on Thursday, September 13, 2001 at 11:45pm. However, as reported by USA Today, Pentagon spokesman Army Lt. Col. George Rhynedance reported that the FDR for AA 77 was recovered on Friday, September 14, 2001 at 4am, 4 hours and 15 minutes after the creation of the AA 77 FDR data file".

Source?


Offline SeaMonkey

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Quote from: MarkE
LOL, if you think so.  Are you going to offer some argument with evidence or just throw mud?

Your desperation is right up there with Sarkey's.

Stating a truth is throwing mud you say?

Look at your hands - what is that muddy looking stuff there?

 

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