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Author Topic: Permanent magnet motor  (Read 75021 times)

Offline xhacks

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #60 on: July 31, 2015, 11:25:01 AM »

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #60 on: July 31, 2015, 11:25:01 AM »

Offline ayeaye

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #61 on: August 01, 2015, 05:37:38 AM »
Xhacks, no explanations, no theory. It's over my simple mind. There is no way how i can take it seriously, unless this thing is better explained.

Offline SoManyWires

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #62 on: August 01, 2015, 05:48:55 AM »
Check this guys: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJyeSPSFAyY

wow, that did look pretty cool.

magnetic bearing.

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #62 on: August 01, 2015, 05:48:55 AM »
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Offline ayeaye

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #63 on: August 01, 2015, 03:00:39 PM »
Ah, that's only magnetic bearing. The small magnet sits in the hole of the magnetic field of the big ring magnet? Quite difficult to make any motor with that. And kind of useless too, that there is overunity can be shown much more easily. But a motor which barely rotates is more or less useless.

Offline guest1289

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #64 on: August 02, 2015, 02:59:23 AM »
If anyone can explain,   completely correctly,   and using the simplest terms that  'anyone'  can understand,    what is the difference between an   Electric-Faraday-Motor  and a   Non-Electric-Faraday-Motor( which just uses 2 permanent magnets )   ?

Why would a   'Non-Electric-Faraday-Motor'   which uses 2   'pipe-shaped-bar-magnets'  set at  90-degrees from each other,  not produce propulsion  (  see the diagram in my earlier post ). 
    I would have thought that the reaction between these 2  permanent-magnets  would result in propulsion at a 45-degree angle.

(  What is the difference between a   magnetic-field   generated by an electrical current,  and the magnetic-field  of a permanent magnet   )

(  If your answer is that in the  'Electric-Faraday-Motor',  the  magnetic-field  of the permanent-magnet   also interacts with the  flowing-electrons,   then check the angle of that interaction  :     
 -  when the electricity is switched to flow in one direction,    the  magnetic-field  of the permanent-magnet   is flowing in the  EXACT-SAME  direction that the   flowing-electrons  are travelling,  although assumedly at a different speed.
 -  when the electricity is switched to flow in the  other direction,   the  magnetic-field  of the permanent-magnet   is flowing in the  EXACT-OPPOSITE  direction that the   flowing-electrons  are travelling                                      )


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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #64 on: August 02, 2015, 02:59:23 AM »
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Offline SoManyWires

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #65 on: August 02, 2015, 03:55:49 AM »
Ah, that's only magnetic bearing. The small magnet sits in the hole of the magnetic field of the big ring magnet? Quite difficult to make any motor with that. And kind of useless too, that there is overunity can be shown much more easily. But a motor which barely rotates is more or less useless.

the value of using a magnetic bearing, would be to increase its lifespan when compared to a not so magnetic bearing due to friction.
also the lack of friction means the bearing can essentially run using less power input.

as a example, a vertical axis wind turbine/windmill.

this floating bearing system can possibly be used for many other ideas.
such as a near frictionless axle that might be used in the development of a maybe possible overunity device, though the bearing will not be the reason it keeps running on its own.
there is the risk that if there is cogging that might occur in the design, to cause the floating bearing to not remain in its exact position constantly, and this may be something of concern when working with such bearing systems mixed with other experiments.
though additional magnets might be used to counter act against the main bearings positional movement.
using anything else other than those additional magnets to correct that alignment would mean more material contact based friction.

though supercooling could help certain levitation of i think it involves bismuth or something else.
supercooling has its costs unless the generator itself can cover the extra needed energy for that cost, but that is getting beyond my scope of understanding which is easy to do when i try to make sense of concepts and theories, much flies way over my head, hats off to those it does not.

Offline lumen

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #66 on: August 02, 2015, 06:55:55 AM »
If anyone can explain,   completely correctly,   and using the simplest terms that  'anyone'  can understand,    what is the difference between an   Electric-Faraday-Motor  and a   Non-Electric-Faraday-Motor( which just uses 2 permanent magnets )   ?

Why would a   'Non-Electric-Faraday-Motor'   which uses 2   'pipe-shaped-bar-magnets'  set at  90-degrees from each other,  not produce propulsion  (  see the diagram in my earlier post ). 
    I would have thought that the reaction between these 2  permanent-magnets  would result in propulsion at a 45-degree angle.

(  What is the difference between a   magnetic-field   generated by an electrical current,  and the magnetic-field  of a permanent magnet   )

(  If your answer is that in the  'Electric-Faraday-Motor',  the  magnetic-field  of the permanent-magnet   also interacts with the  flowing-electrons,   then check the angle of that interaction  :     
 -  when the electricity is switched to flow in one direction,    the  magnetic-field  of the permanent-magnet   is flowing in the  EXACT-SAME  direction that the   flowing-electrons  are travelling,  although assumedly at a different speed.
 -  when the electricity is switched to flow in the  other direction,   the  magnetic-field  of the permanent-magnet   is flowing in the  EXACT-OPPOSITE  direction that the   flowing-electrons  are travelling                                      )

I am planning to do some experiments to determine why there is a difference.
I would have thought that because is conductor is non-magnetic the cross field does not interact with it, but I'm sure the Faraday motor would still work if the conductor was iron.

So maybe it's only because the magnet tube is not long enough to prevent the field simply entering the ends and preventing the effect. That's one thing I hope to test.

It could be that a conductor pushes the field outside of the conductor and a magnetic tube contains the field inside the tube so it does not deflect the cross field.

I thought possibly a spinning copper tube would deflect the cross field in a similar way and cause movement even though the rotating copper would require work.
 
There must be some reason why it does not work the same , right?
 

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #66 on: August 02, 2015, 06:55:55 AM »
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Offline ayeaye

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #67 on: August 02, 2015, 11:05:27 AM »
Guest1289, Lumen,

The difference i think is how the magnetic fields interact. In case of two magnets with the axis perpendicular, what happens is that the magnetic fields reshape, so that both poles of the rotor magnet shall be directly connected to the pole of the stator magnet. When the poles of the rotor magnet are at equal distances from the pole of the stator magnet, then the forces are in balance, and there will not be any movement. When they are at different distances, then there simply will be an attraction or repulsion radial to the pole of the stator magnet, again no movement. The same cannot happen when the magnetic field of the stator magnet is circular. I don't know every detail but, if you asked what is the difference, this is the difference.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2015, 08:27:25 PM by ayeaye »

Offline lumen

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #68 on: August 03, 2015, 12:33:20 AM »
I am getting some response that is something like what a conductor would do.
 
This is what I am using but the tube needs to be splined so the cylinders stay in alignment as shown. They now tend to lock together in the gaps when stacked and that appears to reduce the effect.
 
When placed over the top on a large cylinder magnet, the array wants to tilt like a conductor carrying current would do.
Once I devise a way to keep the orientation, I will try a few other tests to see if it's like a conductor.
 

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #68 on: August 03, 2015, 12:33:20 AM »
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Offline lumen

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #69 on: August 03, 2015, 04:47:08 AM »
No it seems not to be like a conductor with current but much closer to a single long magnet.
Though the magnets are diametric cylinders, somehow it has developed poles on the ends of the stack making more like a single cylinder magnet.
 

Offline PerpetualMotion12345678

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #70 on: August 06, 2015, 07:10:23 PM »
.

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #70 on: August 06, 2015, 07:10:23 PM »
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Offline guest1289

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #71 on: August 06, 2015, 08:16:05 PM »
I tried to get  'scientifically qualified people'  to answer the question  :   -   What is the actual difference between the  field of a  'Permanent-Magnet'  and  that of a  'Wire with DC Current Flowing Through it' ,  in terms of achieving movement in a    Non-Electric-Permanent-Magnet-Powered-Faraday Motor  .

Below,  is where I posted my questions  :

http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/197575/what-is-the-difference-between-the-magnetic-field-of-a-permanent-magnet-and-tha

http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/197356/why-will-a-non-electric-faraday-motor-which-just-uses-permanent-magnets-not-w

(  Even though they heavily edited and or removed things I had put in the questions above,   THEY ACHIEVED making my questions much more  SUCCINCT  and  CLEAR,   and,  believe it or not,  gave me  'editing privileges'   to edit other peoples questions,   which I don't have the energy to do, 
 and I really only care about the questions arising from this    Non-Electric-Permanent-Magnet-Powered-Faraday Motor    )

-   -   -

The flowing  magnetic-field  of a  Permanent-Magnet  is made up of  photons( real photons, or virtual photons )  flowing  in one direction between the two poles of the  Permanent-Magnet.
     
(   It's easy to believe the magnetic-field  of  'Wire with DC Current Flowing Through it'  could be composed of  photons,   but less easy to think that the magnetic-field  of a  Permanent-Magnet  is also composed of  photons  )

That makes me wonder,  just what kind of  MIRRORS  could effectively 'reflect'  magnetic fields.   
  I did read that some types of  coils  are able to  reflect  part  of the    magnetic field .

-   -   -

    Last night,  I discovered on the internet that    Polarized-Light   can  turn-off  a magnetic-field  (  a recognized and authenticated discovery  ).
       
     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetization_reversal_by_circularly_polarized_light

     That made me wonder,  since the  magnetic-field   and  the  electric-field  are unified ( through the  special-theory-of-relativity ),  and that the  gravitational-field   is somehow also unified with the magnetic-field   and  the  electric-field ,    could some type of  Light-Emission  be used to achieve  Anti-Gravity  (   or an electric current flowing through the outer surface(  made of a  super-conductor ) of a  CRAFT  ,  which would be different to using ionized air particles as propulsion  ) . 

-   -   -

Offline lumen

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #72 on: August 07, 2015, 01:09:51 AM »
The difference between the magnetic field from a conductor with current is different only in that it is a primary field.
What that means is that the field is circular and radiates in a circular path outward from the conductor without any merge points when placed in an external field.
This is the same as the field generated in the atoms of the permanent magnet before they combine to form a secondary combined field.
If you wind the conductor on a core and combine the primary fields to form the secondary fields, then the field is exactly the same as the permanent magnets.
 
Now because the secondary field flows from an object which has combined many primary fields, there are merge positions where additional field vectors will combine or merge to strengthen the established secondary field.
 
Once the field is a secondary field, there is no way to convert back to the primary without additional work.
 
I knew this before building the simulated conductor so I could test to see if there were any similarities between the two and if there were ways to increase the effect.
There are some effects that appear similar but appear not to be useful. Attraction to the edge of a magnet is stronger one way than the other but no actual rotation effect is noticed.
During this experiment I had a thought about applying something I noticed to another experiment I was doing, so it may have returned something of value but unknown as of now.
 

Offline MagnaProp

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #73 on: August 07, 2015, 10:30:25 AM »
I tried to get  'scientifically qualified people'  to answer...
I don't qualify but your 2D images look similar to me. If we could shield one half of the permanent magnet with metal then bismuth, it might look more like magnetism from a wire that goes in one direction. That's only in 2D though.

The permanent magnet field in 3D is more like a wire that is connected to its self as in a ring or toroid shape which messes things up for us. So a permanent magnet is like having two wires next to each other with the current traveling in opposite directions, which would end up in no movement in a unidirectional motor.


Offline MagnaProp

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #74 on: August 07, 2015, 11:23:09 AM »
Or have two permanent magnets together but place a shield in between them so the magnetism still has to go the long way around to their respective poles. Don't want the flux taking the short route of going into their neighbors poles.

The blue is metal to soak up the half of the magnetic field we don't want radiating out and the red is a plate of bismuth to keep the two magnets and their fields separated.


 

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