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Author Topic: Permanent magnet motor  (Read 80592 times)

Offline ayeaye

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #45 on: June 04, 2015, 02:55:48 PM »
AlienGrey, well yeah, different waves. But how can something act as a wave, and also as a particle? The matter is, there is something more general than a wave, propagation of a process. Wave is only a special case of it.

But these things should be discussed somewhere else, this thread should be about general theory of a permanent magnet motor. But all things come together, yes. This is all about the same field, electromagnetic, or should one say electric, electrostatic is like only about a static part of it.

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #45 on: June 04, 2015, 02:55:48 PM »

Offline ayeaye

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #46 on: June 17, 2015, 01:46:46 PM »
Jim36, did your magnets with circular field arrive? Cannot wait...

Also, there seems to be something extraordinary in the Faraday's homopolar motor. The current there has to create magnetic field only once, and then nothing seems to work against that current, the strength of the magnetic field doesn't change. So it looks like that the only energy used is that necessary for creating a magnetic field once. Plus that lost in the wire as a heat, but what if such thing is made using a superconductor? In that one made with a battery, there is a terrible waste of energy, all is lost just to maintain current, with otherwise maybe nothing decreasing it. Just thoughts.

TechStuf, no, it doesn't mean that god created us, what an ignorant conclusion of otherwise so brilliant thinking. It means something else, that it is not about these randomly moving particles, or then molecules. It is about something else which they have not considered, developing of a network. Well god then, what one calls god. Whatever it is one may call god, we, and all the nature, are part of it. Now say god doesn't exist, what doesn't exist then, we, or nature, or reality, nothing exists? Talking about god as an abstract concept, not even defined, but causes a lot of damage to our brain, because god means something for many people. Which is not the same as god of any religion, not necessarily the same, not every way the same. What humans have been told different from ayeaye's, well, that ayeaye thing is a joke. That is meant to deliberately hide something. Ayeayes come from a different place, where are no dimensions, or not dimensions the same way as they are here, it is difficult to describe it, and impossible to draw on a 2D picture. Anyway, one cannot hide things from ayeaye's, the same one can hide them from humans. Because ayeaye's thinking is inherently different. Well, as i said, what i'm talking about ayeaye's is a joke. But there have to be jokes too.

But even these randomly moving particles, they have not properly simulated these either. Consider simulating these moving dots, each of which can only attract the others. What a complex things can come out of it. Now consider that these can both attract and repulse each other. And they are all moving. This is exponentially more complex.

Offline Jim36

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #47 on: June 18, 2015, 01:16:45 AM »
Hi Ayeaye,

I'm still waiting for the delivery of them, it could be another 10-20 days yet. The homopolar motor is unique by the way the stator field and rotor are always at the same position relative to each other. I'm not sure what you mean by 'The current there has to create magnetic field only once', do you mean just a pulse? I would think that the current would need to be sustained to overcome friction.

Jim

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #47 on: June 18, 2015, 01:16:45 AM »
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Offline ayeaye

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #48 on: June 18, 2015, 01:38:57 AM »
I would think that the current would need to be sustained to overcome friction.
No, the friction weirdly does not seem to decrease the current, in any way.

Offline ayeaye

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #49 on: June 24, 2015, 05:59:20 PM »
Jim36,

When you get these magnets, you may try something like that below. You may not believe, but this bent wire stays quite well in balance. It stays because of the weights on it. Fix with a mounting tape, should hold well, but of course i don't know the size of your magnets. What i put on that stator magnet, just happened to be a film container. The film container's lid also just happens to have a small concavity in the center, so it will not move anywhere, but it should work even without that. Just maybe it may help, maybe may give you some idea.

Why there is not much friction when the wire is bent that way, is that then the shape where it touches the surface, is almost spherical.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2015, 09:44:43 PM by ayeaye »

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #49 on: June 24, 2015, 05:59:20 PM »
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Offline Jim36

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #50 on: July 17, 2015, 03:12:00 PM »
Hi all,

The tube magnets have arrived but on initial testing the field is not correct  :(, I will try to redeem the experiment and possibly have them corrected here in the UK.

See pictures in following post of tube magnets.

Jim

Offline lumen

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #51 on: July 18, 2015, 04:12:03 AM »
I was trying to get a response from a similar setup by using about 10 diametrically polarized cylinders forming a ring.
The ring of magnets had almost no external field after forming them into the ring, so it was a magnetic ring just like the field around a wire with current.

It seems that if the field is contained internally there is no way another outside field can affect it and the experiment did nothing.


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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #51 on: July 18, 2015, 04:12:03 AM »
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Offline ayeaye

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #52 on: July 18, 2015, 07:51:21 AM »
Maybe it may work when the ring magnet is thin, it takes 10 mm of iron to shield the magnetic field in any noticeable way.

But if the permanent magnet motors are not the way to go at all, then it's of course better to know it.

Jim36, you have at least the magnets, so you can magnetize them. Such tube-like magnets may though be the worst, in that not many of these thick wires needed for magnetizing circularly, can go in there. The best for the purpose is likely a ring magnet with a possibly larger hole. For that money you could buy a welder instead, and you could magnetize magnets by yourself as much as you want. A microwave transformer may also do that, some use it for welding, but also may not be powerful enough.

Offline Jim36

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #53 on: July 23, 2015, 01:17:35 PM »
Lumen, you maybe correct and the external field will have no effect, this is something i'm not sure of.

Ayeaye, yes I was thinking of getting the holes made wider for the reasons you have just mentioned, will see if I can get things moving forward.

Jim

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #53 on: July 23, 2015, 01:17:35 PM »
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Offline ayeaye

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #54 on: July 23, 2015, 04:04:48 PM »
Jim36, Lumen, i think the field of the external magnet should go inside the circularly magnetized magnet, and still create a force. The only thing that prevents that, i think, is magnetic shielding of the metal of the circularly magnetized magnet. But shielding a magnetic field needs at least 10 mm of iron, so when the circularly magnetized magnet is thinner (less difference between the outside and inside diameter), then there may be an effect, when it is, say 20 mm thick, then maybe not. I'm not sure about numbers, didn't calculate anything, but i have found that a 10 mm of iron can shield the magnetic field. What do you think, right, wrong?

This may also mean that the external magnet should be quite near the circularly magnetized magnet, as the circularly magnetized magnet has no field outside.

Offline lumen

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #55 on: July 23, 2015, 08:10:01 PM »
Maybe some effect could exist if the circular field was in something other than the magnets.
Like if a ring of copper were drilled for several diametrically magnetized cylinders with a small distance between them so the circular field existed partially in the copper.
Then there would exist a medium where an external field could interact and hopefully generate the desired effect.
 

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #55 on: July 23, 2015, 08:10:01 PM »
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Offline guest1289

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #56 on: July 29, 2015, 11:51:39 PM »
THE FOLLOWING  'SCIENTIFIC PHENOMENON'  WILL ALLOW YOU TO HAVE SOME  'ELECTRICAL CURRENT'  IN YOUR  NON-ELECTRIC HOMOPOLAR/FARADAY MOTOR PROTOTYPES   

Just posting this to try and make sure everyone in this thread knows about a real, and incredible phenomenon called    'Persistent Current',    basically,    in a   LOOP  made of either a non-superconductor or a superconductor,  a   'naturally-occurring'   electrical current flows in the loop,  without any electrical input from outside of the loop.    This effect is particularly strong in superconductors,  but has also been proven to occur in non-superconductors( any normal conducting ring ).   THIS IS THE PUREST EXAMPLE OF FREE ENERGY

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistent_current

Admittedly,  it would be best if you sought advice from a scientist specializing in  'Persistent Current',   to make maximum use of it in your  prototypes .

BEFORE I BECAME AWARE OF THIS PARTICULAR THREAD
Before I became aware of this particular thread,    I designed a very simple   Non-Electric-Faraday-Motor( Homopolar-motor )   to make use of the above phenomenon,  and posted it in a thread I started ,  below :
http://overunity.com/15918/perpetual-motion-permanent-magnet-faraday-motor/#.Vbk737Oqqko

And,  then,  I posted another extremely simple  Non-Electric-Faraday-Motor( Homopolar-motor ) to make make use of the  principle by which a normal   Electric-Faraday-Motor( Homopolar-motor ) works.   
I TRULY BELIEVE THIS  MOTOR  I POSTED,  ACTUALLY PROVIDES THE SAME MAGNETIC-FIELDS THAT PROPELS A NORMAL  Electric-Faraday-Motor( Homopolar-motor ).

(  The thread I started   above,   probably won't have any more activity,  and I'm pasting my posts from that thread,  over to this one.    )

Offline guest1289

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #57 on: July 29, 2015, 11:58:02 PM »
PERPETUAL-MOTION  PERMANENT-MAGNET  FARADAY-MOTOR

A non-electric Faraday-Motor,  which just uses permanent-magnets.

THIS MOTOR DOES NOT USE  MERCURY ( OR SALT WATER )
This  Faraday-Motor  'does not'  use the liquid mercury ( salt-water in other versions )  that Faraday-Motors usually use. 

Replace the wire in the Faraday-Motor  with a LOOP made of Neodymium-Wire( if that really exists ) or some other permanently-magnetic thing that would have the same effect(  making sure that only one side of the loop( one strand ) interacts with the permanent-magnet at the centre of the motor .

NOTE : I'm suggesting a LOOP,  incase the incredible phenomenon called  'Persistent Current'  could exist in the material used,  because 'Persistent Current' has been proven to occur in  NON-SUPERCONDUCTOR materials.

THIS MOTOR WOULD HAVE TO USE A   'MAGNETIC-BEARING'

(  'Ideally',  instead of a LOOP made of Neodymium-Wire,  it would be a LOOP made of a room-temperature Superconductor-Wire( like Stanene or Graphene ),  WHICH COULD ADDITIONALLY ALSO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE INCREDIBLE PHENOMENON CALLED   'PRESISTENT CURRENT'  ,   but that would only be absolutely 'Ideally'  )


IF THIS MOTOR WOULD NOT WORK
The question would be what is the difference between the magnetic-field around a wire( with electricity flowing through it ) and the magnetic-field around a Neodymium-Wire-Loop.

Could it be that a magnetic-field around a wire( with electricity flowing through it ) has some type of a cog-wheel like outer edge( outer most surface ) because it is generated by electricity,  unlike the assumedly  smooth outer edge( outer most surface ) of the magnetic field of a permanent-magnet.

THE FOLLOWING NOTE,  TURNED OUT TO BE WRONG ( I ASSUME )
NOTE :  Hours after I posted this post,   I realized,  correctly or not,  that the propulsion in a normal   'Faraday-Motor'( electric-motor ) is probably due to a jet like effect( electrons coming out ) between the wire and the mercury( ( salt-water in other versions ), but I don't know. 
At worst,  the  Neodymium-Wire would just hang in a stationary-orbit near the central permanent-magnet,  at best it would spin around.

Offline guest1289

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #58 on: July 30, 2015, 12:07:40 AM »
.

The following   'Non-Electric-Faraday-Motor( Homopolar-motor )' ,  is designed to replicate the magnetic fields that propel a normal   Electric-Faraday-Motor( Homopolar-motor ) .

The following webpage,  has a  MIND-BLOWING  explanation of how the  'Homopolar-Motor'  works,  just read the post which contains the word   'tangential'  .

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/homopolar-motor-explained.300468/

After I read the above web-page,  I played with some small  permanent-magnets( shaped like flat round watch-batteries  ),  and I seemed to get some  propulsion  )

I'm not even able to build this incredibly simple motor, unfortunately.

(  Strangely,  I think I'm onto something here,  a resulting  'tangential' force resulting from the interaction of magnetic fields that are  slightly more than,  or slightly less than 90-degrees different to each other,   and the flexibility of the string in the Diagram below  )
 
(    If you build the motor below,  try it with either the slightly different string lengths( as shown in the diagram ) ,   or ,  with equal string lengths.       
     Since string is flexible,  it will do strange things on its own.   Eventually the string would be replaced with a  rod  connected  to a magnetic bearing ,  which would give it some strange flexibility  )

In the diagram below,    a bar magnet( suspended by two lenghts of string ) is in  'orbit'   around another bar magnet( which is sitting up-right )  ,  you'll notice that the two strings are different lengths ( thats to replicate  the results I got last night ).

Offline lumen

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #59 on: July 30, 2015, 06:20:19 AM »
I have 90 small diametric cylinders coming and will make a better attempt to simulate a current carrying conductor.
With enough magnets I can make it several inches long and try to space them so more of the field is external.
The concept merits a bit more effort before trashing it.

 

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