GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics


  • *Total Posts: 497623
  • *Total Topics: 14727
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 2
  • *Guests: 17
  • *Total: 19

Author Topic: Permanent magnet motor  (Read 74407 times)

Offline Jim36

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #30 on: May 29, 2015, 05:38:31 PM »
Ayeaye,

Yes the material can be demagnetised electrically. This wouldn't be required though as you can just re-magnetise it the way you require, rather than de-magnetising and re-magnetising. The material has a cocervicity point, this is the strength of magnetic field intensity required to demagnetise the material (in amps/meter) this is also the point to re-magnetise. This is what the BH curve of a magnetic material is all about, have a look into it. Wind it the way you want it magnetising (in this case toroidal winding style) and if low resistant wire is used and correct amount of ampere  turns are made to exceed the cocervicity point it can be re-magnetise with a battery. I will make an attempt this weekend and post the results here.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #30 on: May 29, 2015, 05:38:31 PM »

Offline ayeaye

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 306
Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2015, 10:14:27 PM »
Thanks Jim36, great.

So it looks like that re-magnetization of these ring magnets is quite doable with means almost all people can afford.

One thing about this paper clip experiment though. It likely really is how it is shown in that video. But then this paper clip experiment is not enough to show that the field is completely circular. When the ring magnet is split, the field concentrates to poles, so the poles can lift a paper clip. But when the ring magnet is a whole, this field distributes more evenly around the magnet, this is certain, and no one has ever questioned it.

But then there may be additional poles, like say there are some 10 of them. The paper clip experiment really works the way it is shown, because each of these 10 additional poles are weaker than the poles when the ring magnet is split. Yet with 10, or even with 20 or more additional poles, the field is not completely circular, and thus the magnet will not rotate continuously.

The ring magnets in that video are also quite weak, alnico or iron, but likely a material which doesn't provide a lot of force. Like some horseshoe magnets, also alnico or iron, they can barely lift a paper clip. With so weak magnets, the difference between lifting a paper clip and not lifting a paper clip comes easily, because the magnet can barely lift a paper clip.

So this video doesn't really show more than is obvious, the field sure distributes more when the ring magnet is a whole. Thus this video does not prove really anything, shows nothing more than is already known.

Saying that, i still think that magnetizing a ring magnet is the best possible way to achieve a circular field, and may be the only way when a completely circular field is even possible.

The working device which i saw as a kid was also likely made that way, if that was not a dream as i said. It was nothing but a ring magnet, similar to that in that video. It rotated on some bearings, and another magnet was held against the side of it with pliers. This other magnet was like a small segment of a ceramic ring magnet, held against it as i remember, with a flat side, that is pole, towards the ring magnet. When the other magnet was close, the ring magnet rotated very fast. As i said, maybe it was a dream.

Nevertheless, it is worth to try, as it is not tested yet, and it is not entirely excluded that it may work.

Offline ayeaye

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 306
Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2015, 09:20:28 PM »
Magnetizing is not that easy i think, like they use 8000 amperes to magnetize the common neodymium magnets. 8000 amperes, though only for a brief moment. For magnetizing such weaker magnet, so much current is not necessary, yet i think it needs quite a lot. If one has a welding transformer, then this might do the thing. I'm not sure though whether a wire from a power cable is enough for a coil, certainly not anything thinner.

This guy used capacitors to get 300 volts, then discharged them through the welding fuse and the coil. This doesn't say much about the current, except that the current used for welding is as much as i know at least 100 amperes, very common is several hundred amperes. Apparently this was enough for magnetizing his ring magnet, though likely very weakly.

Capacitors, this may be because the house fuse doesn't let through as many amperes as necessary. When the current comes from capacitors, then that's not a problem. I guess he filled capacitors with 320 volts from three phases he could get. So then one needs a big capacitor, at least.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2015, 11:46:00 PM by ayeaye »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2015, 09:20:28 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline lumen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1333
Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #33 on: June 01, 2015, 04:55:03 AM »
One might just punch out some ring magnets from a rubber magnetic strip and then magnetize them by rotating them between two neodymium magnets.
Sounds a bit easier.

Offline ayeaye

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 306
Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #34 on: June 01, 2015, 10:52:15 AM »
One might just punch out some ring magnets from a rubber magnetic strip and then magnetize them by rotating them between two neodymium magnets.
Sounds a bit easier.
Right but, may be the worst option. Likely too weak, and a low quality material which is the most likely to produce additional poles, the very thing that should be avoided.

All the problem about magnet motors is to have more positive force than friction, see my experiment and repeat it, you may see there is overunity https://archive.org/details/Flcm3 . Means, with no friction, even such chain of magnets would rotate continuously, even without the field being completely circular. But without enough asymmetry, the overunity is not enough to overcome friction. The circular field is the most asymmetric, that is, an ideal case where in the field lines chain there are no field lines in the opposite direction. Also the Faraday's homopolar motor, which Jim36 described here, works because of the circular magnetic field. So that a continuous rotation with a circular field is possible, is already known.

We are in a very difficult situation here. We supposed to go to the extreme with something, with the highest quality, to see the maximum which is achievable. And at the same time we supposed to do that cheaper than most of the ordinary things are made, so that many can repeat it. And in such conditions no one knowingly has succeeded to achieve continuous rotation. Maybe some people call that a proof that there cannot be overunity, but to me it sounds more like a self-proving argument.

Furthermore, it has been made more difficult. Namely, overunity has been made like some all in one effort. Means, the only thing considered valuable, is when a single person solves it all, and maybe even provides some practical benefit to the rest of humanity. Means no one gets any benefit from any intermediate research, necessary to achieve the end goal. Means some do some work not to talk for free, but also without any acknowledgement. One may say many reasons why this is exactly how it should be, but still it seems like a kind of extreme milking. Plus plenty of hoaxes and hypes, promoted because some get money by lies. To distract just almost everyone who otherwise could contribute to the research. All that, no wonder, makes that great final result impossible in the reality.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2015, 01:48:36 PM by ayeaye »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #34 on: June 01, 2015, 10:52:15 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline ayeaye

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 306
Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #35 on: June 02, 2015, 12:34:17 AM »
One might just punch out some ring magnets from a rubber magnetic strip and then magnetize them by rotating them between two neodymium magnets.
Sounds a bit easier.
If you want to try it, sure do. I have nothing against experiments. I think it will not work, but then i may be wrong.

Offline DreamThinkBuild

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 564
Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #36 on: June 02, 2015, 09:13:15 PM »
Hi Ayeaye,

You can emulate a circular field in a ferromagnetic tube by using two magnets with poles flipped next to each other.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #36 on: June 02, 2015, 09:13:15 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline ayeaye

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 306
Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #37 on: June 02, 2015, 11:34:16 PM »
Hi DreamThinkBuild,

Thanks, great. I can make a cube out of 8 of my small rectangular magnets, which would be similar to that inside the tube. But i don't have a ferromagnetic tube. I have nothing ferromagnetic with the shape of tube, that is. Maybe that idea together with that rubber magnet idea by Lumen may work. If it is possible to demagnetize a magnet tape, or magnetize it circularly, then it may serve as a ferromagnetic tube. But this is just what i happened to think when reading this thread again, i'm not sure in that at all.

I don't say at all that it will not work, and i don't want to discourage anyone from experimenting. But the problem with that, i think, is this. A ferromegnetic tube, if it is thin, it has no effect whatsoever. But when it is thick, more than 10 mm or such, then it effectively screens the inner magnets from the outside magnet. What a ferromagnetic material does i think, is that it takes the field lines into itself, and thereby screens them for anything outside. So inside the wall of that tube there likely will be a quite circular field, maybe also somewhat outside the tube, but there it may be much too weak. But then, a positive force strong enough to overcome the friction, is all what the problem is about.

This topic seems to interest many, but then no one seems to have a proper means to really try it, such as a welding transformer. People used to think permanent magnet motors are easier to make, than other overunity devices. Maybe right about just showing overunity, like my experiment https://archive.org/details/Flcm3 , but what concerns a real continuous rotation, they may need much more resources. Maybe after all, solid state devices with a coil like this https://archive.org/details/ndischarge are much easier to make by people with limited resources, than permanent magnet motors.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2015, 11:31:52 AM by ayeaye »

Offline lumen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1333
Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #38 on: June 03, 2015, 05:04:35 PM »
I think that if one could magnetize in a circular path, then the field might be fully contained within the magnet.
If there was any field leakage it would diverge away and no longer be circular.
 
That doesn't mean that this could not work as there could be some tendency to divert an incoming field in the same manner as a current carrying conductor.
 
The rubber magnet rings might work well because they magnetize easily and could be stacked to simulate a conductor with current.
If the working field was weak enough to prevent them form re-magnetizing they might work as a simple test.
 
 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #38 on: June 03, 2015, 05:04:35 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline Jim36

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #39 on: June 03, 2015, 11:02:55 PM »
Sorry for no activity, been working lots,

Yes I see what you are saying aye aye, regarding magnetising materials requires very high current, I still haven't had chance to experiment with re-magnetising a loud speaker magnet. I know that usually high current is required but there was an interesting post put on this thread with a video from Jason Verbelli showing 'Perpetual Magnetic Current' he turned Steel into a permanent magnet with low current, though I don't know the details of the steel used as this may be explained by normal physics if it has a relatively low cocervicity.

As for a circular magnetic fields, if the material is magnetised in this way a few factors will minimise flux leakage or extra poles as you mention, the surface of the material needs to be quite smooth, I found this out when I made my own circular magnet which had dimples in it, these areas had flux / poles in the air. Also magnetic flux follows the easiest path (low reluctance) air has a high reluctance, so if the tubes are made well enough I think flux leakage/poles shouldn't be real problem. you mentioned the flux is kept within the material so an external field will ignore the flux inside the material, this is not the case the external field will interact with any field or any substance appropriately, if this didn't happen then a new discovery in science has been found at least!

Ayeaye, this is not the only project i'm working on as I'm also working on a new type of transformer (I've done about 1 years experimenting with coils and custom transformer geometries) this motor will hopefully spin a generator to power the transformer, the transformer design is such that the secondary doesn't create back EMF / MMF so to tap from the ether. Not much torque will be required from the motor. This is all hypothetical obviously but I have come across some strange phenomena which has pointed me to do this. It is too early to post the work here as there is a lot of detail, but I am passing the information to another trusted group so if it works I'm not the only holder of the information, this is why i'm posting the permanent magnet homopolar motor here as it is has much less detail. I've actually purchased the circular tube magnets from a manufacture so will be working on building the motor ready for when they turn up. They believe that the magnets can be made to this degree, I suppose I will find out soon enough. 

Jim

Offline ayeaye

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 306
Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #40 on: June 03, 2015, 11:27:40 PM »
Great, Jim36.

I have a strange phenomenon too, in my experiment. But in fact it is not a strange phenomenon, it it induction, the way it is known to happen, just has not been used properly. When a small current starts in a coil, then this induces an increasing magnetic field, and this induces voltage. And how great this voltage is, depends on how fast the current is switched on. Very low current may induce quite high voltage, it's as simple as that. But this is not about permanent magnet motors.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #40 on: June 03, 2015, 11:27:40 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline Jim36

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #41 on: June 03, 2015, 11:45:57 PM »
Good luck with your project,

There is some interesting stuff around, I've heard of resonance switching before which may be linked with what you are talking about (switching on and off power without mosfets) as silicon switches are not meant to be as clean cut? This giving a very sharp increase in voltage and then somehow resonance is used to aid? If I can find the video I will post it for you.

Cheers

Offline TechStuf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1274
    • Biblical Record Proves True
Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2015, 12:33:24 AM »
Ask yourselves why the "right hand rule" is important in EM wave propagation.  What are the more interesting dynamics in EM fields which cause a rotor to turn....and is it possible to employ PMs in a creative manner to accomplish same?

Or...more importantly...if all sorts of interesting geometric gear shapes can mesh at little cost, how might PM fields interact with one another in order to affect an electric current of sufficient strength to drive the process?

http://beforeitsnews.com/science-and-technology/2014/04/ancient-high-performance-electric-motors-discovered-that-are-still-in-production-2685290.html

http://beforeitsnews.com/spies-and-intelligence/2015/05/mt-everest-shrinks-hawaii-rumbles-their-connections-are-important-but-why-2447232.html


Good Journeys

Offline ayeaye

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 306
Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #43 on: June 04, 2015, 02:03:35 AM »
There is some interesting stuff around, I've heard of resonance switching before which may be linked with what you are talking about
Resonance is just a word for something happening better in certain conditions. No, it's just v = L * di / dt , comes from the Faraday's law of induction. Initially current goes through the coil, because the coil has almost no resistance then, means almost no voltage either. The magnetic field is linear to the current. But the voltage, the force to create current, induced is the greater, the faster the magnetic field increases, notice the dt . It's in essence as trivial as that. And mosfet evidently switches fast enough for overunity. We may talk about it further in this thread http://overunity.com/14925/negative-discharge-effect/#.VW-iUTr52rM .

The following is only a pure speculation, not related to that above. I don't know that, additional energy, the reason for that may be electrostatic. So the strength of the current really depends on how fast the circuit is switched on, finally though the current goes back and forth, and the voltages settle how they should in the circuit. So to get energy from that, one also needs to switch off the circuit fast enough, and mechanical relays are not good for that. I have seen in a four plate capacitor, the voltage between two plates oscillates between settling, so i wondered why is that. So this is about that switching, of capacitors, and a possible reason why this may provide an additional energy. Would be simpler of course, because of capacitors only and no coil, but is less straight-forward and clear, what concerns theory. There may be something about current which we maybe have not been told, current may be in a way more dynamic as it is thought to be. But this goes already very far from permanent magnet motors.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2015, 09:50:53 AM by ayeaye »

Offline AlienGrey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1914
Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #44 on: June 04, 2015, 02:16:49 PM »
Yes well, re (Aveaye) I’m not so sure this man’s opinions are such to take as gospel ! he appears as far as I can see to be talking about resonance of a powdered substance on a table vibrated by sound till its mechanical resonance is reached. But is the device driving that frequency also at its own resonance, I doubt it very much and if not how would one reach a power factor of resonance ? now would we use parallel resonance or serial resonance, and what is the difference, (one hell of a lot) I might add, and what is a longitudinal wave and a transverse, one hell of a lot again, my advice is to look on Yutube for university lectures and avoid listening to half baked ideas on this comic strip ! ;)

 

OneLink