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Author Topic: Permanent magnet motor  (Read 88585 times)

Offline guest1289

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #105 on: August 16, 2015, 10:50:59 PM »
Keeping  in  mind  that  each  thin   'magnetic-stick'   making  up the mesh,  is actually physically  touching  the other    thin   'magnetic-sticks'   making  up  just  one  Diamond in  the  mesh,   so  technically no  magnetic-field  should escape  .   
      Every single  pole  of  every single    thin   'magnetic-stick'  ,  is  physically touching the  poles  of  two other   thin   'magnetic-sticks'  .

(  but then I thought about the  'Welding-fault-tester',  and that made me wonder if some of the magnetic-field  could  become  external,   it also reminds me of some science I can't remember now,   involving the  electromagnetic  properties of  mesh   etc  )
____________________________________

But being honest ,  now I'm only interested in the thing  below.

Idea :
'Imagine boats floating on a  Very-Large-Flat-Magnetic-Field (  the  magnetic-field  would be curved up at the edges so the boats don't fall out ),   and the boats could have little weights hanging from their keels to give them stability'

Now I can't work out  why this idea would not work .

(    I would have thought this idea would have been possible for well over a century,  and that if it was possible,   I would already have seen it sometime  )

(  Obviously the   large-flattish-magnet   providing the   magnetic-field   for the boats to float on,  would have an unusual shape to successfully achieve the effect,   such as a  bathtub,   but with a  much less  flat  bottom  )


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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #105 on: August 16, 2015, 10:50:59 PM »

Offline ayeaye

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #106 on: August 17, 2015, 12:31:55 AM »
As i said, my experiment shows, when spacing the magnets, there is overunity. All the problem is that this overunity is too small, not enough to overcome friction, and thus cannot provide continuous rotation. Or maybe it can, with magnetic bearings, but what sense does it make to make such device.

Offline guest1289

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #107 on: August 17, 2015, 01:00:41 AM »
Any viable chance to  achieve  'perpetual-motion'  cannot be ignored,  as you know,  you'd make history

(  perpetual-motion  definitely is overunity,  and the most observable  form  )

(  This week I think I have invented a new type of  magnetic-bearing,   I created a new thread for it,  here it is  :    http://overunity.com/15971/a-new-magnetic-bearing-invented-today/msg459122/#msg459122    ,    add a small  'magnetic-bearing'   on the end of the axle to keep the  'rotator'  from  jumping out of the  'static-magnets',  that extra  small  'magnetic-bearing'  could be a   small  'dome-magnet'  being repelled by a  flat-magnet.    You'll notice it is an incredibly simple and naive design,  but I feel confident about it  )

( I thought that another way to overcome   'merge-points'  friction is to place magnets into a  'BRICK-WALL-PATTERN',  so that all the   'merge-points'   counterbalance  each other.  )
____________

(   Maybe,  you could avoid the above work,  and just build  'My boats floating on a Flat-Magnetic-Field  Idea',   which I posted in this thread some hours ago  ' August 16, 2015, 10:50:59 PM',   for  Minimal-Work,  you'd   achieve something very impressive   )

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #107 on: August 17, 2015, 01:00:41 AM »
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Offline ayeaye

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #108 on: August 17, 2015, 01:09:16 AM »
Any viable chance to  achieve  'perpetual-motion'  cannot be ignored,  as you know,  you'd make history

If you think so, you may try https://archive.org/details/Flcm3 . This works only with magnets such distance apart, if you put them closer, they will flip poles when there is a full circle of them. And use the weakest magnets you can get. These are 5 x 5 x 3 mm ceramic magnets, as much as i can remember. I also tried it with four 7 x 7 x 5 mm magnets, also works. You likely cannot get weaker magnets, don't use magnetic rubber, as it has irregular poles. I wrote about it somewhere here as well, but i don't remember where.

But using that with magnetic bearings, there would likely be other problems. It is a kind of bumpy, and the stator magnet has to go through. Magnetic bearings are not so rigid, and thus it may just "ride on the surface", in which case there will likely not be any effect. Several stator magnets can be used, but they have to be carefully placed, to make the movement even. So at least it would be a very delicate act of balance.

Offline guest1289

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #109 on: August 17, 2015, 01:52:23 AM »
Even  though  I can't build anything at ( I'm not exaggerating,  and I can't go into reasons ),   I will examine  https://archive.org/details/Flcm3   very closely.

I would like nothing more than to be convinced that someone has achieved  'Perpetual motion',  or overunity,     that  really would be incredible,  but I soon sense other peoples  delusions  or  fakery (  since I too have believed too much in some of my inventions,  but I have never faked anything  ) .     NOTE :   I Know You Are Not A Faker .
(  Unfortunately,  because of the value of energy,  it would be too hard to cover up or suppress any  achievement  of  perpetual-motion  or  overunity,  because there are too many people who would utilize the discovery immediately  ) 

NOTE :   I Know You Are Not A Faker .
______________

Question
You no longer believe in using magnets,  and you have have replaced them with  coils/induction,  but you use electricity to induce the magnetism in the coils

( 1 ) -  Are the  coils  looped (  the two ends joined to each other )   ?

( 2 ) -  If the   coils are looped ,  then you would also  induce an electrical current in the loop,  and that is no longer like  a  permanent-magnet  ?

( 3 )  If the   coils are not  looped  (  the two ends are not joined to each other ),   then the   magnetic-field  in the loop could  still contain  some of the properties  of the electricity  inducing it,  such as frequency,   (  and maybe even an  'electric-field',  but don't waste time discussing that )     ?
_____________________

Since you are knowledgeable ,  maybe you could examine my  daft  idea below,  because it's so simple,  it has confused me .

Idea :
'Imagine boats floating on a  Very-Large-Flat-Magnetic-Field (  the  magnetic-field  would be curved up at the edges so the boats don't fall out ),   and the boats could have little weights hanging from their keels to give them stability'

Now I can't work out  why this idea would not work .

(    I would have thought this idea would have been possible for well over a century,  and that if it was possible,   I would already have seen it sometime  )

(  Obviously the   large-flattish-magnet   providing the   magnetic-field   for the boats to float on,  would have an unusual shape to successfully achieve the effect,   such as a  flattened-out-bathtub,   but with a  much less  flat  bottom  )
________________________________

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #109 on: August 17, 2015, 01:52:23 AM »
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Offline ayeaye

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #110 on: August 17, 2015, 02:16:47 AM »
Guest1289, talk about the coils there http://overunity.com/14925/negative-discharge-effect/#.VdFQ5tcuviY , not a right place here. In brief, the voltage induced, depends on the speed of switching the current, not on the strength of the initial current, e = df / dt, or such, this is what it is about, very basic, and this is what induction is. Now the induced current should remove the magnetic field, and it will, but these processes have a certain inertia. And this is why there is a voltage spike.

Offline guest1289

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #111 on: August 17, 2015, 07:56:11 PM »
Random thought,  wonder  if   'quantum entanglement'  could somehow be the ultimate secret behind  gravity ( and magnetic and electric fields ),  if so,  could it be that by modifying one of two entangled  things,  be the  utimate secret to either turning  off or creating  the above forces

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #111 on: August 17, 2015, 07:56:11 PM »
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Offline ayeaye

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #112 on: August 17, 2015, 08:19:11 PM »
Random thought,  wonder  if   'quantum entanglement'  could somehow be the ultimate secret behind  gravity ( and magnetic and electric fields )

Gravity by the standard model, is particles sucking a kind of space grid, made of Higgs bosons. The Higgs bosons then fly somewhere else, where they form more space grid. The space grid is most likely dynamic, it is that "quantum foam" which fills the vacuum. A huge movement which is the source of the zero point energy, which may be the unknown energy causing the overunity.

But i think quantum entanglement is certainly the ultimate secret. I think the reality is a network, a pure entanglement, having no dimensions. Like the David Bohm's implicate order. The space is formed by a dynamic grid made of that network. Movement in space is just changing connections to the different points on the grid. Moving is thus also change, and change is general. If we understand that network then sure we can do everything, imaginable and unimaginable. But you are thinking about things which you are not supposed to think, this may make you to understand, but you are expected to be limited. Interestingly though, no one agrees to be limited.


Offline ayeaye

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #113 on: August 18, 2015, 01:35:59 PM »
I don't know what to say. Try to strongly circularly magnetize a thin ring magnet. Then maybe some field is near the surface. Maybe one may try with coils first, like a piece of iron pipe as a core. The magnetic field in the toroid core should be exactly the same as the circular field in a permanent magnet. See whether it anyhow interacts with a pole of a permanent magnet, in place where the core is exposed, and where are no windings.

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #113 on: August 18, 2015, 01:35:59 PM »
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Offline guest1289

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #114 on: August 18, 2015, 08:55:36 PM »
.
It  seems  I may have just invented a new type  of  brushless( and more efficient ) type of  DC motor,   the statements posted on  http://overunity.com/15978/new-reactionless-motor-from-india/msg459441/#msg459441  ,   prompted me to invent it .

I first posted this invention,  in the above  thread.

My  initial design  is simply a wire carrying Dc current,  causing a  Donut-Shaped  magnet,  to spin on an axle  (  this  Donut could have a normal magnetic-field,  not one running around the circle,  so it's easy to make  ) .

(  Of course that  wire should probably be replaced with either a coil ,  or something similar to multiply the power  )

(  On the above  thread,  I also posted my reasons/theories  why  a  Donut-Shaped-Magnet  with the  magnetic-field  running around  the  circle of the Donut  needs to be created,   it's to prove or  disprove  theories.   But my new  brushless-DC-motor will not need an un-makeable Donut-Shaped-Magnet   )



Offline ayeaye

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #115 on: August 19, 2015, 05:43:34 PM »
(  Of course that  wire should probably be replaced with either a coil ,  or something similar to multiply the power  )

Coil cannot be used in the Faraday's homopolar motor, it doesn't work. You should think things more through before you come up with ideas.

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #115 on: August 19, 2015, 05:43:34 PM »
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Offline guest1289

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #116 on: August 20, 2015, 05:59:41 PM »
( I don't actually know if  the idea I'm posting here,  has already been tried before,  I would just assume it has  )

To make a  Donut-Magnet  with the  magnetic-field  rotating around the circle of the  toroid,  could they not  just use  another  wheel  with very-very-powerfull   SEPARATE  magnets set on it,  and then  just spin the wheel at the required speed

OR

The same process I have typed above,  but the SEPARATE  magnets  would be     'SEPARATE extremely-powerfull Ring-magnets  THAT ACTUALLY COMPLETELY ENCIRCLE the curved-pipe that is the  DONUT,   

     -   I hope I don't have to draw a diagram

Offline ayeaye

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #117 on: August 20, 2015, 07:03:08 PM »
     -   I hope I don't have to draw a diagram

I think you have to, but not in this thread. This thread is about permanent magnet motors, that is motors that have permanent magnets only. You can write about any ideas or experiments about these, in this thread.

That is, the problem is how to make any of these, at all. And there may be some things yet to be tried, before concluding whether making a continuously rotating permanent magnet motor is possible at all, and whether it is a way to go. Anyway, it seems to involve some high voltage devices such as stepping up transformers or welding transformers, and high voltage capacitors. And some rigid mechanics equipment, such as fastening mechanical components and bearings. An equipment which is not likely very cheap any more, and thus it may not be easier any more than experiments with coil, and for that reason not the best way to go. Likely more easy to understand than electronics though, i must admit, even the most simple circuit is not exactly simple, as it consists of components that have a complex behavior. But most likely not cheap, and for that reason such experiments may not be affordable for most of the people.

But, there has to be a kind of road map for research. So i think it is, when it appears that the permanent magnets are not a way to go, switch to coils and induction. Or when one cannot afford any more the costs of doing more advanced experiments on permanent magnets. This is also why i said, try coils on different cores, such as pieces of iron pipes, or maybe just a thin winded iron wire, and see whether there is any effect on permanent magnets, because the circular magnetic field in the cores of such coils, should be exactly the same as in the circularly magnetized permanent magnets. This should be affordable to do i think. But, a good coil has 1000 turns, and, the core should be either painted, or covered with a *transparent* plastic.

Guest1289, but what to do is rather your problem, because you decided not to go to electronics, because it is too complicated for you.

Offline guest1289

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #118 on: August 20, 2015, 08:12:23 PM »
Here's  the  diagrams

DIAGRAM 1 ( below ) : -   To make a  Donut-Magnet  with the  magnetic-field  rotating around the circle of the  toroid,  could they not  just use  another  wheel  with very-very-powerfull   SEPARATE  magnets set on it,  and then  just spin the wheel at the required speed

OR

DIAGRAM 2 ( below ) : - The same process I have typed above,  but the SEPARATE  magnets  would be     'SEPARATE extremely-powerfull Ring-magnets  THAT ACTUALLY COMPLETELY ENCIRCLE the curved-pipe that is the  DONUT,     and then  just spin the wheel at the required speed
      Obviously,  this option in  'DIAGRAM 2',   would need some method of holding the  Donut-Magnet  while the rings are rotating around it. 
            One way could be that the   magnetizing-rings   would not totally  encircle  the main-ring,  to allow the  main-ring  to be anchored to something.   
            Another way could be that  if the  magnetizing-rings  would be  ELECTROMAGNETS,  then maybe they could actually  LEVITATE  the   main-ring which they are encircling. 
« Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 10:20:17 PM by guest1289 »

Offline ayeaye

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Re: Permanent magnet motor
« Reply #119 on: August 21, 2015, 04:39:20 AM »
You mean, radially magnetized ring magnets, around a circularly magnetized donut magnet, to both make the donut magnet to rotate, and hold it in the air? Yes theoretically, a pole of a magnet and the circularly magnetized magnet, should repulse. So not a bad idea really, if only an external magnet had any effect on a circularly magnetized ring magnet (donut magnet). Also a weak point may be, that a donut magnet is thick, but circularly magnetized ring magnet may have to be thin, so that there maybe is some circular magnetic field on the surface. Well, another weak point, when the ring magnets are around the donut magnet, and the donut magnet rotates, then it is very difficult to extract energy from the rotating donut magnet, anyhow. But, when the donut magnet stands still, and the ring magnets revolve, then it's easy to extract energy from the revolving ring magnets, just by having a coil near them. Well, that again cannot be done, maybe they should be a kind of u shape magnets...

Well, i remember somewhere a similar idea. Like a donut shape pipe, and likely a radially magnetized magnet, moving inside that pipe. But as much as i know, no one has yet made such thing.

 

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