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Gravity powered devices => Gravity powered devices => Topic started by: hartiberlin on May 06, 2015, 04:41:49 AM

Title: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: hartiberlin on May 06, 2015, 04:41:49 AM
Well, I have now pondered big time how exactly Rosch has faked the AuKW KPP.
And I came to the following conclusion, which is very logical and it is the easiest way how to do it.

What has puzzled me was, how they manipulated the "generator" with its speed changes when they removed and applied again
one heating panel from the output, if this was all only faked with a hidden cable and now I found the solution.
Read on.


So let´s  assume that the hidden power cable probably comes through the upper hollow support beam
into the tube and then goes inside the tube directly to the top connectors of the the generator, not being
connected in any way with the generator coils or the generator at all !

There, the three-phases will go straight to the connection sockets and then through the thick black cable
directly downwards. Thus, the analog power meter  then also rotates correctly and when the whole loads are connected
also the measurement box displays correct values. But all energy comes from the grid via the hidden cabble !

Now comes the trick how to simulate the load changes:
The generator is just running almost in idle mode !

That is why the small undersized gear is able to drive the generator,
cause it has no resistance for the paternoster, it is just idling away.

The compressor as is seen is connected to the cable boxes on the floor that come from the hidden power cable from above, so
it is just pumping about 50 to 100 Liters air per minute into the floats and they just turn the generator in almost idle
mode.

Now, if somebody changes the load like Mr. Beiser pulls the plug of this one 1250 Watts heater panel,
you can hear, that the generator is running faster, cause its pitch tone gets higher.

This is cleverly done, by removing a maybe 10 Kohm load resistor on the coils of the generator.
So in idle mode the generator is just putting out 380 Volts via induction on its coils
and a 10 KOhm load resistor is always braking it a bit. (That is why I wrote Almost idle !)
So  this 10 KOhm load resistor dissipates about 14 Watts. The buoyancy paternoster is also braked via this load a bit,
but the gear still can handle this and the RPM in this slightly braked idle mode is around 750 RPM at the generator.

Now, when Beiser pulls the plug out of the heating panel from the connector box, there is sent up a signal by radio
from the antenna box via RF radio signal, that a receiver inside the modified generator receives and
releases this 10 KOhm resistor from the output coils of the generator and thus the load on the paternoster is 14 Watts
less and thus the Generator and paternoster will run faster. Then it is really in total idle mode, so it runs faster !


The control signal to start this load change on the generator coils gets the antenna box on one of the 3 wire lines (red, blue, black),

which  come from the right battery cabinet box. You can see these 3 wire lines on several photos.

These 3 colored cables are probably red=12V or 5 Volts supply, black = ground and blue = control signal serial data line or I2C bus or

something like this.

So  the CPU control board in the antenna box is then controlled  to release this 10 KOhm brake load which is
transmitted via RF radio signal up to the generator with has this hidden 10 KOhm load on its coils.

This way the speed of the generator is changed !

In the rightmost panel box with the 4 x 7 Ah lead acid batteries there sits a current sensor inside, which measures,
when a load change is made and then also  changes the frequency display, so that they
have there some sort of Voltage Controlled Oscillator which controls the frequency display, so they just modify the
control voltage a bit and thus the frequency will change into the right direction.

The load change value will then be sent via the blue cable data line to the left antenna box with the control circuit board and
it will then switch on or off the load resistor on the generator coils.

Since we have seen from the logo graphics from inside the rightmost control box that  the Serbian company  Mikroelectronika has built
all these boxes, we now know, that this is a company that has much experience in  Microcontrollers knowledge and could program it like this.

This is also the most logically way the cables are connected there and this way it could
easily work.
Also this would be the easiest way to fake it...

If it is not done by radio control, it could also be made via
the red cable which goes up to the generator platform from the left antenna box.
This red cable was claimed by Beiser to be a valve control line for the compressor, but I can not imagine that they really regulate the

compressor because the compressor was seen on Gaia's video and it had only a manometer on it and then the hose went straight down into the

tube , so there was no visible control valve..so maybe the red line is just used to control the maybe 10 KOhm brake load resistor..

I have now traced all the cables where they are connected to and how the control panel boxes are interconnected and I guess
it really can only be this way, if one uses a hidden cable to bring the power in.


Clever done Rosch ! But not smart enough to not being detected.

Gruss, Stefan.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 06, 2015, 04:45:57 AM
Stefan:

Your explanation fits perfectly.  We all know this could not work as they have said so, you figuring this out is a really good thing.

Thanks,

Bill
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: hartiberlin on May 06, 2015, 04:46:31 AM
Please compare my findings again with this visiter video from J.D.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03aVI1_OMsA
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: hartiberlin on May 06, 2015, 04:47:59 AM
Yes, thanks Bill, it is the only plausible explanation with all the
connections and observations from all the last days since they have shown it.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: MarkE on May 06, 2015, 05:00:48 AM
Signaling can also be carried over power line communications.  These are used extensively in solar power inverters from companies like enPhase.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: NochWas on May 06, 2015, 06:07:15 AM
The host-presenter of the auKW on J.D.s  video seems to be somewhat stoned with psychopharmaka. His movements seem to be lame and hesitating indicating he uses heavy Dosis of medicaments against states of  overwhelming fear....
That is not a promising indicator for the credibility of the auKW....
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: hartiberlin on May 06, 2015, 08:51:37 AM
If they have done the fake still more right, then they would have a 3 phase frequency changer unit in the next room which
will be controlled wirelessly via the antenna there... This unit could then produce the right frequencies before the hidden cable goes up there,
so that you can see the same frequency on external frequency meters or scopes, at the measurement day today...

@NochWas,
Mr. Beiser is said to have some kind of Nerve-Illness. That is why he is a bit slow in speaking and answering.
I don´t know, if this is true, but that is a rumour.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: hartiberlin on May 06, 2015, 08:54:02 AM
PoiPoi has found the right compresssor pump !
https://www.allmystery.de/themen/gw113123-1131#id14248581 (https://www.allmystery.de/themen/gw113123-1131#id14248581)

Here is a page from the manufacturer.
It must be the model Airpump 150.
This one still works at a deepth of 5.5 Meters.
Too bad, I have not yet found a chart, which displays at which pressure
it will deliver how many liters of air...

http://evolutionaqua.com/acatalog/Airtech_Fittings.html (http://evolutionaqua.com/acatalog/Airtech_Fittings.html)

Here is a PDF File from the Service Manual !
http://www.evolutionaqua.com/acatalog/AirPump%20Manual.pdf (http://www.evolutionaqua.com/acatalog/AirPump%20Manual.pdf)
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: hartiberlin on May 06, 2015, 09:18:33 AM
If they really just use a variable frequency drive (frequency inverter-converter) in the next room controlled remotely via the antenna
then the speed change noise could also just come from the membrane pump , when they change the frequency in this variable frequency drive
and then the generator maybe is not at all
connected electrically and really runs only fully in idle mode.
so the small gear is always able to drive just the shaft of the generator as it does not have any counter torque, but just runs completely idle.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: hartiberlin on May 06, 2015, 10:08:30 AM
In this new video I explain, how they could have done it to fake the whole setup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cj9VuE-vNnw

Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: MarkE on May 06, 2015, 12:09:14 PM
In this new video I explain, how they could have done it to fake the whole setup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cj9VuE-vNnw
Is that really an antenna on top of the left hand control box?  It sure looks like one in the video feed.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: hartiberlin on May 06, 2015, 12:23:14 PM
@MarkE,
yes, it is an antenna.

Well, I just recorded another 2 Videos from the measurement day.
A few visitors were there but nobody yet was taken measurements yet...
All were only talking and only taking pictures with their mobile phones...

Only one guy I saw did hold his ear to the tube, that was all
what could be seen so far.. pretty sad..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FOv1FRnUhA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FOv1FRnUhA)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lMjIV3lYis (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lMjIV3lYis)

Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: MarkE on May 06, 2015, 12:36:08 PM
The measurement boxes look like they are powered off.  I guess the man was trying to listen for screams from the trapped aqua-gerbils in the tube.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: hartiberlin on May 06, 2015, 03:25:50 PM
3 new Videos from the measurement day, but the guys attending there seem not to be too much interested to measure there a lot....
I have only seen one Multimeter so far and an ampere clamp meter...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rmZdOrQ_HY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rmZdOrQ_HY)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4cEYqQx3kY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4cEYqQx3kY)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0zfZGIyL4g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0zfZGIyL4g)
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: hartiberlin on May 06, 2015, 03:38:54 PM
Here are 5 new videos from user daBenedikt
https://www.allmystery.de/mitglieder/daBenedikt (https://www.allmystery.de/mitglieder/daBenedikt)
He was so nice to donate these videos for my German language Youtube channel ( as these videos are all in German language,
Beiser is speaking German)
These are from his visit at the 4th of May  at Spich at the Rosch facilities.
He does not have a Youtube channel so he let me upload them to my channel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mQwCW-BP8I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mQwCW-BP8I)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K8hxPu46gA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K8hxPu46gA)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQdzJqwEvp0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQdzJqwEvp0)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3McdyESpYo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3McdyESpYo)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geeB_3M4m0k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geeB_3M4m0k)

Many thanks to Benedikt again.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: hartiberlin on May 13, 2015, 08:06:19 PM
Hi All,
I recorded the dismantling process today.
Unfortunately I missed the switch off of the AuKW,
but at least I captured all the later stuff pretty well.

These are bilingual Videos English-German language.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3M0uBASnV4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIiaU74xRP4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4--SdBE0z64


Well as the AuKW was still running a few minutes ago before I recorded
the first video, the question is now, how they wired that up that they still had today all
the power at the output ?
If there was no hidden cable through the connection support beams, then how
did they input the power to all the loads today ?
Well in the last days we had a still frame only in the Livestream from
8th of May evening to today midday.... so
in that time frame they could have tampered with the device..
Did somebody record the switch off of the AuKW of today ?
Would love to see this.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: PIH123 on May 13, 2015, 11:11:02 PM
Well as the AuKW was still running a few minutes ago before I recorded
the first video, the question is now, how they wired that up that they still had today all
the power at the output ?
If there was no hidden cable through the connection support beams, then how
did they input the power to all the loads today ?

Do you suppose that during all of that "Live" feed downtime,
they had time to:

.  remove the wires from the support tubes
.  patch up the small 1 inch diameter hole from the demo room to that area above the office in the adjacent space
.  install a honking big battery in that "generator"
.  turn it back on in time for the "show"


Surely they couldn't get all of that done in less than 96 hours ;)
Spackle must take at least that long to dry, let alone paint over.


So did anyone get to look inside the "generator" ?

Pete
 
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: PIH123 on May 14, 2015, 08:15:50 PM
J.D.s photos.

Another nail in the coffin.

Stefan, you have been quoted multiple times by Stuart / Sterling on PESN as having changed opinion.

Quote
He's still having a hard time with the science, but pretty much admitted that while he doesn't understand how it could work, the demonstration did seem convincing that it was working.

So please review again the photos available (from J.D.) after the brackets were removed.
Please open them in their own tab so that you can more easily zoom in on them.



Photo 29 (http://www.pureenergyblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/DSCN1325_1000.jpg (http://www.pureenergyblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/DSCN1325_1000.jpg)) shows a guy photoing the lower bracket position.
The top holes of that bracket were nearest to the gap in the prefab wall (comparing the 2 bracket photos) and there is a dark smudge above the top right hole.

So we know the lower bracket must be this photo http://www.pureenergyblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/DSCN1327_1000.jpg (http://www.pureenergyblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/DSCN1327_1000.jpg)

The "pattern" of etching of the prefab concrete can be seen over the entire surface of this part of the wall.

So far so good.

And so let's look at the upper bracket position http://www.pureenergyblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/DSCN1328_1000.jpg (http://www.pureenergyblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/DSCN1328_1000.jpg)

Notice that the same "etching" pattern we saw everwhere on the lower bracket picture is there...................................

EXCEPT FOR the entire area inside the 4 mounting holes.


Is there an equivalent German word for "Spackle" ?
Did J.D. bother to look for any open tubs of it ?

They had 4 clear days with no live feed to cover this up.


I bet this will cause Sterling to lower his rating to 9.89999999.



Also Stefan, you are quoted as having only considered "unseen portions of the control panel" for location of hidden batteries.
Is this true ? I did not listen to the entire 2 hour audio.

Thanks

Pete
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: MarkE on May 14, 2015, 08:40:39 PM
It is fascinating to observe the thought process over there.  They have absolutely no evidence that gravity or its application to fluids is an energy source:  zip, nada, nothing, de-minimus.  Rosch/Gaia do not even pretend to present any evidence that the paternoster drives the "generator" rather than is driven by a motor labelled as a "generator", much less that the paternoster passes more than 5kW, or that the supposed power out of the paternoster in any way exceeds the power into the small compressor.  There are no force or torque transducers in the system to measure mechanical power and the direction of that power flow.

S&S jump into an alternate reality where they assume the claimed miracle is true.  From there they go through exercises of trying to convince themselves that there is no trick in how the display was wired.  Such is the world of self-delusion.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: TinselKoala on May 14, 2015, 09:12:10 PM
While I don't actually think this is the case.... it is certainly possible that the bracket _bolts_ themselves could be used to make the necessary electrical connection through the wall. No extra holes or cables through the wall are needed, just some long bolts that go all the way through. Two brackets = two conductors, with the long bolts making the connection through the wall.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: MarkE on May 14, 2015, 09:33:12 PM
While I don't actually think this is the case.... it is certainly possible that the bracket _bolts_ themselves could be used to make the necessary electrical connection through the wall. No extra holes or cables through the wall are needed, just some long bolts that go all the way through. Two brackets = two conductors, with the long bolts making the connection through the wall.
There are many ways to hide a power source including in plain sight.  I don't really care because we know that the fundamental premise is a lie. 

I did not slog through videos of people making measurements under Gaia's control.  A lightly loaded motor would look very inductive and consequently clamp on current readings by themselves would indicate high reactive currents while real currents are quite low.  So current measurements at the "generator" by themselves are useless.  If people took those, and merely assumed that:  1) The currents registered are real rather than reactive, and 2) The current was from the "generator" instead of to it as a motor, then they set themselves up to be fooled into believing what they wanted to see.  So it could be that there are no hidden wires at all.  There is just a big motor labelled as a generator and all the "magic" happens in the control boxes where the same mains connection that feeds the "generator" splits off to the loads.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: PIH123 on May 14, 2015, 09:58:14 PM
There are many ways to hide a power source including in plain sight.  I don't really care because we know that the fundamental premise is a lie. 

I did not slog through videos of people making measurements under Gaia's control.  A lightly loaded motor would look very inductive and consequently clamp on current readings by themselves would indicate high reactive currents while real currents are quite low.  So current measurements at the "generator" by themselves are useless.  If people took those, and merely assumed that:  1) The currents registered are real rather than reactive, and 2) The current was from the "generator" instead of to it as a motor, then they set themselves up to be fooled into believing what they wanted to see.  So it could be that there are no hidden wires at all.  There is just a big motor labelled as a generator and all the "magic" happens in the control boxes where the same mains connection that feeds the "generator" splits off to the loads.


Sadly, the believers will not read or understand any of what you said.
As evidenced by their postings, they can't bear to hear the truth.



But pictures.......................
I am hoping that they can at least "learn" from the pictures supplied by one of their own.
(that is, as long as they don't get the urge to get a box of crayons out for a coloring session)  :o


The only reason for the "etching" pattern consistent with the rest of the concrete prefab wall to be missing in the area of the upper bracket,
is that a hole was covered up with some type of spackle/drywall compound.


But agreed, there are many ways to hide the power source to the (let's be generous and call it a) "generator".
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: hartiberlin on May 15, 2015, 04:32:17 AM
Smoothcriminal wrote here:
http://www.pureenergyblog.com/2015/05/14/2233/heiko-erxlebens-close-up-photos-from-may-13-aukw-disassembly/ (http://www.pureenergyblog.com/2015/05/14/2233/heiko-erxlebens-close-up-photos-from-may-13-aukw-disassembly/)

take a very close look on exerlebens close-ups from the upper and lower support beam section on the wall. especially the drilling holes. compare upper and lower ones. its pretty obvious that the upper beam wall section got repainted AFTER the holes got drilled.. if u strongly increase the contrast u can even see where they drilled the hole for the cable through the wall. it shows as a round imprint..
if u keep examine the fotos from dismantling day u can also find the hole for the cable to the generator in the baseplate on top of the tube (they covered it with tape)..  (credits for this findings go to d.fense, devnull and uatu from allmystery forum)
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: hartiberlin on May 15, 2015, 04:58:10 AM
New video. still rendering, from the audio conference and the dismantling
day from the start with the security man switching off the system and the footage also from J.D:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYruqD06210 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYruqD06210)


My biggest video yet on Youtube, having already had about 10 GigBytes of file size and
being 2:20 hours long..
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: hartiberlin on May 15, 2015, 05:07:46 AM
Take a look at the guy with the black hair and the blue shirt.
He pulls the 3 phase cable plug from the right cabinet box, there where the
power is supposed to come out and then he disappears behind the big tube for a few seconds
and comes back with a big 3 phase distributor box and connection cable...

Seems this was the way they got the power at the dismantling day, they just used this connection
cord and distributor bix hidden behind the red crane waggon to get the power in there,
coming from the room next there...
( the Blue door is open and you see cables laying around there at the edges
on the door..)
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: PIH123 on May 15, 2015, 05:08:12 AM
Smoothcriminal wrote here:
http://www.pureenergyblog.com/2015/05/14/2233/heiko-erxlebens-close-up-photos-from-may-13-aukw-disassembly/ (http://www.pureenergyblog.com/2015/05/14/2233/heiko-erxlebens-close-up-photos-from-may-13-aukw-disassembly/)

take a very close look on exerlebens close-ups from the upper and lower support beam section on the wall. especially the drilling holes. compare upper and lower ones. its pretty obvious that the upper beam wall section got repainted AFTER the holes got drilled.. if u strongly increase the contrast u can even see where they drilled the hole for the cable through the wall. it shows as a round imprint..
if u keep examine the fotos from dismantling day u can also find the hole for the cable to the generator in the baseplate on top of the tube (they covered it with tape)..  (credits for this findings go to d.fense, devnull and uatu from allmystery forum)

So I hope you will confirm with Sterling/Stuart that you have not changed you mind on this being a scam.

They are quoting you as such.
Quote
He's still having a hard time with the science, but pretty much admitted that while he doesn't understand how it could work, the demonstration did seem convincing that it was working.

If I easily found the evidence along with your multiple other references, then you have to correct PESN on what they are saying about you.

Pete
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: hartiberlin on May 15, 2015, 05:28:32 AM
Yes, yeasterday night I was tired and had not yet looked at all the new data.

So now the story changed again. Sterling must see this now...

Here are 2 of the Erxleben Fotos where you see the tampered hole in the center
when the contrast is very high from the upper support beam wall position.

Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: PIH123 on May 15, 2015, 05:49:54 AM
Yes, yeasterday night I was tired and had not yet looked at all the new data.

So now the story changed again. Sterling must see this now...

I hear you, Wasn't it about 3.am your time.
I hope you slept in today. ;)


Because of Stuart, I do not post over at PESN.
(I am sure you would not be happy with him as a moderator for your sites).


I have reviewed the other photos you linked to, and I can see what you are saying.


But I don't think it presented well on the PESN Pure Energy Blog site.
Lots of photos, but no commentary on what each means.

Quite simply, the evidence I posted above (regarding the lack of  concrete "etching" in the middle of the upper support) is glaring.


And I would wager that no supporter on PESN would dare comment about it, if it was posted there
(especially the photo taker himself).

Pete
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: hartiberlin on May 15, 2015, 06:06:25 AM
Not yet Pete.
I wanted to get this out before I go to bed.

Is this black haired guy with the Caro-Shirt unplugging there the cable
that brought the hidden power to the AuKW ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R2tZvGxkhA

Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: PIH123 on May 15, 2015, 06:23:38 AM
Not yet Pete.
I wanted to get this out before I go to bed.

Is this black haired guy with the Caro-Shirt unplugging there the cable
that brought the hidden power to the AuKW ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R2tZvGxkhA

Holy Crap, that has to be a wig.

According to Stuart, all of the cables were accounted for.

And I have to admit, that I haven't kept track of them all, so no comment from me.

But, then why did he have to check the web cam as he came into frame ?
Making sure the syrup wasn't wonky ?

(cockney rhyming slang btw for "syrup of figs" - "wigs")
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: hartiberlin on May 16, 2015, 03:53:09 AM
Since I read this summary by User Allfather:
https://www.allmystery.de/themen/gw113123-1249#id14300533 (https://www.allmystery.de/themen/gw113123-1249#id14300533)

And also the comparison between the placement of the components ontop of the roof-plate
between before the measurement day and at the dismantling day:
 Compare this:
https://www.allmystery.de/themen/gw113123-1262#id14304481 (https://www.allmystery.de/themen/gw113123-1262#id14304481)

Now it is clear to me that it is just a Fake and the power came through the
upper support beam during the 10 day Demonstration.

Also the hole, that was taped again in the upper metal plate proves,
that there was a cable leading to the Generator from inside the tube...!

The hidden cable was then removed during the last few days before
the dismantling day and at that day the power came from a hidden
distributor cable from the next room. (hidden behind the red lift platform crane)

You can see here the guy with the Karo-Shirt, how he removes the cable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R2tZvGxkhA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R2tZvGxkhA)
Also the KWh-power meter was no longer connected ! Also a proof
that the power came from somewhere else !

So now the Gaia-Rosch KPP is proven for me as a Fake and busted
and I will no longer care about it.
It already has costs me too much wasted time...
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 16, 2015, 03:58:13 AM
Since I read this summary by User Allfather:
https://www.allmystery.de/themen/gw113123-1249#id14300533 (https://www.allmystery.de/themen/gw113123-1249#id14300533)

And also the comparison between the placement of the components ontop of the roof-plate
between before the measurement day and at the dismantling day:
 Compare this:
https://www.allmystery.de/themen/gw113123-1262#id14304481 (https://www.allmystery.de/themen/gw113123-1262#id14304481)

Now it is clear to me that it is just a Fake and the power came through the
upper support mean during the 10 day Demonstration.

Also the whole, that was taped again in the upper metal proves,
that there was a cable leading to the Generator from inside the tube...!

The hidden cable was then removed during the last few days before
the dismantling day and at that day the power came from a hidden
distributor cable from the next room. (hidden behind the red lift platform crane)

You can see here the guy with the Kao-Shirt, how he removes the cable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R2tZvGxkhA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R2tZvGxkhA)
Also the KWh-power meter was no longer connected ! Also a proof
that the power came from somewhere else !

So now the Gaia-Rosch KPP is proven for me as a Fake and busted
and I will no longer care about it.
It already has costs me too much wasted time...

Stefan:

I agree with those that think you should correct Sterling over there as he seems to think you believe this is the real deal for some reason.  As far as I know, you have been skeptical of this from the start.  Now it appears that most of us believe this to be a hoax/scam/trick...etc.

It will probably take Sterling another few weeks to come to this conclusion.

Bill
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: markdansie on May 16, 2015, 12:32:34 PM
Stefan:

I agree with those that think you should correct Sterling over there as he seems to think you believe this is the real deal for some reason.  As far as I know, you have been skeptical of this from the start.  Now it appears that most of us believe this to be a hoax/scam/trick...etc.

It will probably take Sterling another few weeks to come to this conclusion.

Bill
I did Bill and this is Stuarts Response


Regarding Stefan, how can you take his word for anything when he couldn't be bothered going (after receiving a personal invitation from Roberto to go) to dis-assembly day on some lame, very lame, ultra lame excuse.[/font][/size]Another pathetic lost soul. Handed to him on a plate to attend and investigate everything for himself, and he doesn't go.[/size]What does that say about him ?[/size]Even Roberto said, look Stefan it would have cost you 10% of your time you spend mucking around doing videos all the time, to come in person and see for yourself, and you just couldn't be bothered going.[/size]Why ![/size]Why ![/size]Why ![/size]He's a waste of space. Another armchair.[/size]Sums it up nicely, I guess.[/size]

[/font][/size]
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: ramset on May 16, 2015, 04:05:46 PM
Soo
Is this true ??
there was a personal invitation to witness the disassembly ?

I don't really follow peswiki hard to separate facts at times .. we even have anonymous clowns coming here bragging about making up stories and playing games with peoples lives over there ??

An invitation??
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: markdansie on May 17, 2015, 12:08:01 AM
peswiki also claim Pixi dust is involved. As you said had to sort out facts from fiction.


Here is some other information from a post on Revolution Green from our forum by a person called Smooth Criminal
There is so much reasonable doubt that unless Rosch allow a simple test of the torque on the drive shaft there is only one conclusion to draw.




 i'm here to spread some information we collected in german speaking forums over the last year or so that might not be known in the english speaking community..tbh i was quite shocked about the censorship und suppression over at pesn. reminds my of the dozens of missing commentary (most likely skeptic) on the gaia homepage ;) you would expect that ppl like sterling, who watched so many fe-scams first row walk free would get skeptic and smarter over time..[/font][/color]
----[/font][/color]
i would also used a 3mm or so small hole for the trick but u have to keep in mind that rosch never planned this so called 'dismantling day' it only came up several days or a week after the first visitor tours. it was propably foisted to them by gaia or allan.. i believe thats why they where sloppy because it was covered well by the support beam. they didn't plan ahead for 'dismantling day' as it was never intended to have one. thats why they need a week between 'measurement day' (lol) and 'dismantling day' to fix everything[/font][/color]
its grotesque on its own that they are so keen to remove that prototype as fast as possible.. makes you thinking.[/font][/color]
----[/font][/color]
i also want to bring to your attention a bizarre appearance from rosch CEO detlef dohmen at allmystery forum where he clearly states that gaia 5kw aukw is only 'toys and marketing' for them. their real goal is to make the big money with the big tubes and from in good faith investors. this big tubes start at 10mil. euro. they claimed to have several big kpp's running in the field (all of course far abroad) but failed to provide even a photo of them..[/font][/color]
another interesting thing to know is that rosch installed a 20kw tube at haslach group in kempten (germany) with a lot of pr-noise. we never heard about that project again. all indicators point to the fact that it was a miserable fail. we have good reason to believe from sources that its efficiency was around 20-30% wich is well within calculated physics.. this tube should be the big one you saw standing around in the livestream at the rosch facility in troisdorf/spich. they used very weird excuses why i didn't work.[/font][/color]
also worth mentioning is the first 12kw demonstration aukw rosch builded in belgrad/serbia. it seems to be the recycled plant from RObert SCHrade. from whom the word 'rosch' originated. (he's not active anymore in the rosch group) anyways.. they did a lot of obvious mistakes there.. they used some kind of bicycle chain to transfer the forces wich is ridiculous and the frequency was extremely stable at 49.99-50.00 wich indicated grid connection. they fixed this problem now in spich.[/font][/color]
c. beiser (technical director of gaia) was in serbia at least 4 times but couldn't find the trick. this visits of beiser constitute the starting point of gaias engagement in the aukw project. (before that, they (gaia) tried to build their own gaia-aukw with good member money. i don't have to mention that they failed. didn't make them any smarter) to make a long story short gaia have absolutly no idea whats going on from a technical point of view..(this whole gaia organization is anything but altruistic. but thats another story on its own)[/font][/color]

[/font][/color]
Kind Regards[/font][/color]
Mark[/font][/color]

Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: markdansie on May 17, 2015, 12:12:29 AM
Soo
Is this true ??
there was a personal invitation to witness the disassembly ?

I don't really follow peswiki hard to separate facts at times .. we even have anonymous clowns coming here bragging about making up stories and playing games with peoples lives over there ??

An invitation??


No point in travelling across Germany given there were several days where things could have been renovated, changed and all evidence erased.
This is a very bold scam
Kind egards
Mark
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: magpwr on May 17, 2015, 05:26:51 AM
hi everyone,

I think i have come up with a super easy way to detect if it's fake or for real merely by looking at the device creator intention.

I think this quick 1-cent worth of suggestion of mine as shown below is gonna to be idiot proof or preventing anyone from becoming idiots in future-

Any free-energy device creator is looking for investor.It's fake right away.

If any free-energy device creator is intending to sell any assembled working device be it just 1 or more.This is likely the real deal.
 
-----------------------------

The only free-energy sales i've heard off is Don-Smith via video and Akula device sales to China buyers via video.
Although Tariel case was a sad one he gonna take it to his grave since he don't want the world to own this technology base on old translated video.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 17, 2015, 05:30:48 AM

No point in travelling across Germany given there were several days where things could have been renovated, changed and all evidence erased.
This is a very bold scam
Kind egards
Mark

Mark:

For whatever it might be worth, I agree.

Bill
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: TinselKoala on May 17, 2015, 10:42:35 AM
@magpwr: While I think you are on the right track, your system isn't quite perfect.

For example, I will gladly sell the prototype Cheese Power demonstrator, and the complete secret of Cheese Power, for the trifling sum of 998 dollars US, subject to only two conditions: A signed NDA that says the buyer will not disclose the secret for two years after the purchase date, and the funds are to be remitted to me in _cash_ (Western Union wire transfer or similar).

I'll even offer a moneyback guarantee: if you are not satisfied that the device is exactly as I have represented it, you may return it for a full refund... as long as it is in working condition when returned. The NDA still will hold for the full two years of course.

Note that I am offering for sale 1 prototype of the Cheese Power demonstrator, along with a suitable chunk of Cheese, and all rights (except public disclosure for 2 years) that go along with it, like commercialization, patent rights, trademarks, etc. You buy it, it's yours to do with as you wish.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Frp03muquAo
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: conradelektro on May 17, 2015, 11:04:42 AM
Why the calculation in

http://revolution-green.com/rosch-smoking-guns-and-the-scientific-explanation/ or

http://pesn.com/2015/05/13/9602617_scientific-explanation-for-Rosch-KPP-buoyancy-system/

is wrong:

The first power calculation in the article is:

== Formula 1 ====   Thus, we get: N = 9.81 x 2 x Q x 0.5 x H x 3 = 9.81 x Q x H x n ====
Further down one calculates:
== Formula 2 === N = 9.81 x 0.167 m3/sec x 2 m x 5 x 0,9 = 14.7 kW  =====
There is the error of putting "2 m" in again, because 2 was cancelled by 2 * 0.5 in Formula 1.
Therefore the corrected Formula 2 is:
== Formula 2 corrected === N = 9.81 x 0.167 m3/sec  x 5 x 0,9 = 7.35 kW  =====
But there is a further error in "Formula 2 corrected", which is the factor 5, because of  "5 working wheels above each other".
If there are 5 wheels above each other the water rises from one wheel to the other only 0.4 meters and not each time 2 meters. Therefore we can calculate with one wheel a height H of 2 meters, or for 5 wheels a height of H 0.4 meters each. We can calculate with one wheel with H = 2, or we can calculate with 5 wheels with a H = 0.4. So, either H = 2 or H = 0.4 x 5, which is the same.
Finally we end up with a correct "final Formula 2":
== final Formula 2 === N = 9.81 x 0.167 m3/sec  x 0,9 = 1.47 kW  =====
In addition we have to factor in a bigger loss than 0.9 because of the very optimistic height H = 2. If the water rises 2 meter it encounters friction at the wheel and some water is lost because it runs through gaps.
Further there will be losses in the gear connecting the wheel with a dynamo and the losses in the dynamo itself.
Therefore we will get much less than 1.47 KW.
Please note: I have not criticised the calculation itself (although one should do that), I only corrected obvious errors.


Criticism of "Formula 1":
The formula stems from water turbines http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_turbine#Power and assumes that water is falling down through the turbine. But one is not allowed to assume the same efficiency if "bubbly water (water air mixture with 50% air) rises through a turbine" rather than "smooth water is falling through a turbine". Much higher losses by friction of "bubbly water rising" in contrast to "smooth water falling" have to be assumed. And if things happen slowly (as is necessary in the "bubbly water rising case"), the formula is overly optimistic, because the formula only works with rather fast moving water.

Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: markdansie on May 17, 2015, 12:59:55 PM
Why the calculation in

http://revolution-green.com/rosch-smoking-guns-and-the-scientific-explanation/ (http://revolution-green.com/rosch-smoking-guns-and-the-scientific-explanation/) or

http://pesn.com/2015/05/13/9602617_scientific-explanation-for-Rosch-KPP-buoyancy-system/ (http://pesn.com/2015/05/13/9602617_scientific-explanation-for-Rosch-KPP-buoyancy-system/)

is wrong:

The first power calculation in the article is:

== Formula 1 ====   Thus, we get: N = 9.81 x 2 x Q x 0.5 x H x 3 = 9.81 x Q x H x n ====
Further down one calculates:
== Formula 2 === N = 9.81 x 0.167 m3/sec x 2 m x 5 x 0,9 = 14.7 kW  =====
There is the error of putting "2 m" in again, because 2 was cancelled by 2 * 0.5 in Formula 1.
Therefore the corrected Formula 2 is:
== Formula 2 corrected === N = 9.81 x 0.167 m3/sec  x 5 x 0,9 = 7.35 kW  =====
But there is a further error in "Formula 2 corrected", which is the factor 5, because of  "5 working wheels above each other".
If there are 5 wheels above each other the water rises from one wheel to the other only 0.4 meters and not each time 2 meters. Therefore we can calculate with one wheel a height H of 2 meters, or for 5 wheels a height of H 0.4 meters each. We can calculate with one wheel with H = 2, or we can calculate with 5 wheels with a H = 0.4. So, either H = 2 or H = 0.4 x 5, which is the same.
Finally we end up with a correct "final Formula 2":
== final Formula 2 === N = 9.81 x 0.167 m3/sec  x 0,9 = 1.47 kW  =====
In addition we have to factor in a bigger loss than 0.9 because of the very optimistic height H = 2. If the water rises 2 meter it encounters friction at the wheel and some water is lost because it runs through gaps.
Further there will be losses in the gear connecting the wheel with a dynamo and the losses in the dynamo itself.
Therefore we will get much less than 1.47 KW.
Please note: I have not criticised the calculation itself (although one should do that), I only corrected obvious errors.


Criticism of "Formula 1":
The formula stems from water turbines http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_turbine#Power (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_turbine#Power) and assumes that water is falling down through the turbine. But one is not allowed to assume the same efficiency if "bubbly water (water air mixture with 50% air) rises through a turbine" rather than "smooth water is falling through a turbine". Much higher losses by friction of "bubbly water rising" in contrast to "smooth water falling" have to be assumed. And if things happen slowly (as is necessary in the "bubbly water rising case"), the formula is overly optimistic, because the formula only works with rather fast moving water.

Greetings, Conrad
I published the correction at Revolution Green

Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: hartiberlin on May 18, 2015, 03:48:09 PM
I made a locked thread with all the facts and pictures about the possible AuKW KPP fake from Rosch that prove it, here:

http://overunity.com/15773/gaia-rosch-aukw-auftriebskraftwerk-kpp-why-it-does-not-work
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: memoryman on May 18, 2015, 09:28:57 PM
Did anyone get a good photo of the alleged generator? Any real evidence that it is a motor?
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: hartiberlin on May 19, 2015, 01:06:44 AM
Well there is some news from Rosch,

Mr. Dohmen has posted today a PDF File with an excuse, why they had this hole
there in the upper top plate, he claimed, that it was only for the
Endoskopcamera.
See here:
http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/Buoyancy/Rosch/Bilder_Deckel_Kameras.pdf (http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/Buoyancy/Rosch/Bilder_Deckel_Kameras.pdf)

But then, why did they need to put a new hole there very next to the generator,
when they already had a good big hole for the hose and the other internal webcam ?
This excuse does not make any sense..

But now I have looked closer into this new PDF File and I discovered some
new items, that I had not seen before and that are getting clearer now..

You can see in 2 pictures of this PDF File a cabledrum standing at the entrance of the
next room at the opened blue hall door...
The question now is, is that a 3 phase cable drum or just a normal
one phase 230 Volts AC cable ?

Was the generator at the dismantling day 3 hours powered  from the buoyancy
via the gearbox or was the generator also powered by the grid and worked as a motor ?

Interesting is to see the connection of the black generator cable.
At the public viewing they had connected at the end of the generator cable
such a 3 Phase connector bush.

Now in this new PDF File from Rosch you can see, that the generator cable is not connected
to any connector bush, but the cable ends are just unisolated and you see the raw copper.

Then I reviewed again J.D,´s videos again and I saw, that this black generator cable went
at the dismantling day directly into the right cabinet box at the REAR SIDE !
So it went probably there directly to the connection panel without a real connector bush,
but the copper cables were just fixed there inside the panel.

Too bad, we have not pictures yet from the backside of these cabinet boxes there..


If a visitor has pictured the back side of these cabinet boxes, please upload your pics.
Many thanks.
Please look at the enclosed pics.
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: markdansie on May 19, 2015, 01:30:44 AM
The Sting,
they took orders for 350 but according ti Gaias website nothing will happen till they get 500 orders. Red Flag"
"Therefore take this chance and be actively involved.Now The perfect choice for power plant, because we can only really get going if we have together the 500 piece
Fulfill your order - Step 1
Once we have the full 500 pcs, we will build the first seminar pattern and thereby create the operating and assembly instructions."
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: hartiberlin on May 19, 2015, 01:31:49 AM
Here are still 2 more pics, one of the backside, that I had not seen
before and one of the right cabinet box opened.

In the right cabinet box opened you can see, that the generator cable is
inserted there through the bottom of the cabinet at the left side and is
clamped fixed to the panel there.

At the dismantling day, there was no cable at the backside....

The question now is, what cable is that at the back side with the red connector bush
on this cabinet and from which day was this picture ?

Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: hartiberlin on May 19, 2015, 01:37:18 AM
Sorry, I was confused,
we don´t see here the backside, but just the right side of the cabinet box in this picture...
http://overunity.com/15755/how-rosch-probably-faked-their-5-kwatt-kpp-aukw/dlattach/attach/149555/

Sorry.... is a bit late now already here...
Okay, the red 3 phase connector then goes to the lamp loads and heater panels...
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: hartiberlin on May 19, 2015, 01:42:03 AM
Okay, this was the source picture. I was a bit confused by the view perspektive...
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: memoryman on May 19, 2015, 10:29:48 PM
according to PESN, SA and SC have been invited to an all-expense paid trip to see the magical machines first hand.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 20, 2015, 02:46:01 AM
according to PESN, SA and SC have been invited to an all-expense paid trip to see the magical machines first hand.

They should have included Mark Dansie and Stefan.  Then we would have people there that we would believe, and they actually know what they are doing.

Bill
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: MarkE on May 20, 2015, 03:07:01 AM
They should have included Mark Dansie and Stefan.  Then we would have people there that we would believe, and they actually know what they are doing.

Bill
Of course they have.  Those two are poster children for "suspend disbelief".
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: TinselKoala on May 20, 2015, 01:19:47 PM
We've seen the photos of where the bracket attached to the wall, and it certainly looks to me like there has been a hole filled in there. But what about the place where that bracket attached to the _tube_ itself? It would not be possible to weld that location without repainting the tube, I think. Does anyone have any photos that show this area? A view from the inside of the tube showing the attach point would be very instructive, I think.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: markdansie on May 20, 2015, 01:38:18 PM
They should have included Mark Dansie and Stefan.  Then we would have people there that we would believe, and they actually know what they are doing.

Bill
Thanks Bill but in reality I always employ engineers and scientists who have much more skills than me. I help with designing the methodology and looking for the trick lol. (its like going to a a magic show and figuring it out.


I know some good scientists in Germany who would do an excellent job. Mark E would be the person I would most like to see.


But that will never happen and we know why.
Kind Regards

Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: Philip Hardcastle on May 22, 2015, 01:06:59 AM
SC on pestricky said


"I had a close look to see where this hose went a week or so ago. I was curious because I thought they may have a valve on the tank to drain it rather than this sort of set-up.


That hose there is the filling/topping up hose.When it needed topping up, they just connected another hose to it.From what I was able to see on dis-assembly day, this hose runs down to the bottom of the tank. It seems to be quite a fat hose in comparison to the virtual garden hose connected on to it. Which kinda puzzled me why it needed to be so big.
When they drained the tank, they connected the hose to this fitting.
Other views/thoughts on this ?"


Well my immediate thought was to wonder if it was simply a compressed air hose, if it was a water top up hose it would only need to be at the top!


If it is a compressed air hose it would need to feed into the buoyancy cups at the bottom.


If it were a top up hose then it is strange that there is a rust mark on the inside of the unit only half way up, did someone forget to turn on the tap.........


Clearly the scam is childish in all respects except that it is fleecing people of money.


The simplest way for them to prove the device would be to simply mechanically link the output to a shaft drive air compressor, then even if it just kept turning without a load for a day MarkE and others would be moved to question reason.




Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: markdansie on May 22, 2015, 05:12:25 AM

Clearly the scam is childish in all respects except that it is fleecing people of money.

The simplest way for them to prove the device would be to simply mechanically link the output to a shaft drive air compressor, then even if it just kept turning without a load for a day MarkE and others would be moved to question reason.




I fully agree
The other way is to just measure the torque on the output shaft with no generator connected and then just measure electricity consumed by the compressor. The output will always be less than the input. Why they avoid these simple proof of concepts is beyond reasonable doubt.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: PIH123 on June 12, 2015, 08:40:28 PM
Sterling's new "Rosch demo wager" is a con.

This is probably not news to most, but just in case I will elaborate.

People are voting on a webpage under Sterling's control about whether a floaty thing works.
Note : this wager has nothing to do with if it really works or not, but merely on the vote tally.
The wager terms state that a voter can remain private.
So what if 20 of Sterling's private friends outvote real people.
The method of verification also remains a secret.



What does Sterling have to gain ?

if enough money is pledged
1. per the appendix A. budget,   $2800 will be used to to pay off some of Sterling's loan.
2. also   $2750   will be used for another paid vacation.
3. if the thing fails to work, then he would likely have about   $5000  worth of "generator" / other parts to sell.

if not enough money is pledged
4. "the uncommitted skeptics will be counted as cowards"


What does Sterling have to lose ?

1. moving an item on an arbitrary internet list from 1 to 6.



Now, am I saying that I think Sterling is attempting to perpetrate a con?

Well, in another area of his life, after being rejected numerous times by a famous performer,
he has written at least two webpages documenting an upcoming "accident" that will
happen to her, and that the result o that "accident" will be her ending up as his wife.


I know most here feel confident in the final outcome of this Rosch story,
and may be tempted to humor Sterling with a vote / pledge, but please reconsider.

As can be shown, he has moved way beyond naivety and blind enthusiasm, and is now in the realm of
financial and emotional desperation.

 
Due to Stuarts insulting, I choose not to post over there, but I know they frequent this site.

Hi S. and S. btw.


Pete


p.s. Legal - The information presented here should be considered HYPOTHETICAL,
to give you an idea of some of the problems and opportunities we face as a society.
Any relation to actual situations is coincidental.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: Low-Q on June 12, 2015, 09:22:56 PM
Funny how people try to make other people believe they have invented a working closed looped gravity powered energy source - and those other people let themself get fooled, again and again  ;D


Some people just doesn't deal with the simplest math and the simplest physics in the world. No offence to those of you who possibly don't cope with math.


To put it simple: Closed looped mechanisms cannot run by themself. End of story.


Vidar
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: Pirate88179 on June 13, 2015, 03:06:20 AM
Funny how people try to make other people believe they have invented a working closed looped gravity powered energy source - and those other people let themself get fooled, again and again  ;D


Some people just doesn't deal with the simplest math and the simplest physics in the world. No offence to those of you who possibly don't cope with math.


To put it simple: Closed looped mechanisms cannot run by themself. End of story.


Vidar

Vidar:

The funny thing is...when Sterling gets "fooled" he seems to make money.  This tells me he is all about the money and may know damn well a device does not work, but, if he "claims" it does, he seems to gets money. (Travel expenses to evaluate, vacation, etc.)  This is what I take from all of this.  It is my opinion based on my readings of what has been going on.  I have no actual information first hand to be able to declare any of my opinions as facts.  They are my opinions plain and simple.

Bill

PS  My disclaimers are not for you Vidar, they are there in case Sterling's legal people read this.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: MarkE on June 13, 2015, 03:48:12 AM
Vidar:

The funny thing is...when Sterling gets "fooled" he seems to make money.  This tells me he is all about the money and may know damn well a device does not work, but, if he "claims" it does, he seems to gets money. (Travel expenses to evaluate, vacation, etc.)  This is what I take from all of this.  It is my opinion based on my readings of what has been going on.  I have no actual information first hand to be able to declare any of my opinions as facts.  They are my opinions plain and simple.

Bill

PS  My disclaimers are not for you Vidar, they are there in case Sterling's legal people read this.
I think Sterling really believes.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: Pirate88179 on June 13, 2015, 03:59:02 AM
I think Sterling really believes.

Well, he may...I don't really know.  But, if you are correct and he does really believe...then what does this say?

Bill
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: PIH123 on June 13, 2015, 04:31:17 AM
Well, he may...I don't really know.  But, if you are correct and he does really believe...then what does this say?

Bill

It says that the outcome of his wager has already been decided by him.
And since he has TOTAL control of it,
he will do whatever it takes for him to be vindicated.
(aside from the fact that he is totally incapable of verifying anything technical as evidenced by SHT)

It is that important to him (and will ease some of his financial troubles at the same time).
He is offering a KPP to his ex.
But isn't she already re-married, and yet he gets to decide her new family's situation. Rather odd.

And he has already started writing about "unfortunate accidents" to famous people in his other quest
to bring them around to his way.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: Low-Q on June 13, 2015, 11:05:31 AM
Vidar:

The funny thing is...when Sterling gets "fooled" he seems to make money.  This tells me he is all about the money and may know damn well a device does not work, but, if he "claims" it does, he seems to gets money. (Travel expenses to evaluate, vacation, etc.)  This is what I take from all of this.  It is my opinion based on my readings of what has been going on.  I have no actual information first hand to be able to declare any of my opinions as facts.  They are my opinions plain and simple.

Bill

PS  My disclaimers are not for you Vidar, they are there in case Sterling's legal people read this.
I follow you on this one. When I think about it, I think you're quite right about it.
Pity that people make mony fooling others. Overunity claims are not alone about this. It happens elswhere too. Very unfortunate I would think. Artificially increasing values from nothing. The hifi cable industry to mention one - where the claim is "better" sound just by changing the wrapping around the copper wires... ???  Claims indicating that the cable is capable of increasing levels, details etc - which of course is a claim of over unity too. Believers take the bait, confidently pays $ 10 000++ for a pair of exotic cables.


Vidar
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: hartiberlin on June 21, 2015, 04:08:05 PM
Here is the TÜV Report from the small model:

http://pesn.com/2015/06/20/9602633_Why-Im-100-percent-sure_Roschs-KPP-Free-Energy-Technology_Works/TUV-w-recactions.pdf
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: Berto3 on June 22, 2015, 12:47:47 PM
I follow this investigation/stories about the Rosch Kinetic Power Plant for some time now. I respect the decision of Stuart and Sterling to go to Germany to see with their own eyes if this new way of energy harvesting is real. My question is; Suppose it is true, what now? Despite all the skepticism in this and other forums; what are you people go to do now? Nothing to argue about anymore. After years of longing for an abundance of energy, we are there at the wider horizon. Limitless energy for all. Leaving some of the OU forum members in total desperation. Because they search for the impossible and not the chance that PM and OU just exist. Why not making a small KPP for our family and friends? Although we don't understand the principle by now, if it works, it is worth making a replica of the mechanics and electric circuit. We can be part of this energy revolution. Just as we where part of the information revolution after the introduction of the home PC, mid eighties.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: memoryman on June 22, 2015, 02:34:40 PM
1: it' been shown to be a fake: 100%
2: maybe YOU have nothing better to do with your time/money to make replicas of fakes, but I do.
3: it's a fake.
4: see #1 and #3
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: Berto3 on June 22, 2015, 03:23:46 PM
@memoryman
Why are you here on this forum? Only to find arguments why PM and OU can't exist? What or who has convinced you that the KPP is a fake? Do you have the courage to go to Rosch to investigate the system?
I would like having a space and people around me with the right intention to build an OU system. The only reason for me being on this forum is to find some arguments why this system can work. But I suppose this is not the right time. First some people here have to crack the nut of there own prejustice about the KPP system. Be carefull, there is no difference between believe in PM/OU or believe in scientific or mediated dogma. It has more to do with an open or closed mind. 100 years ago, people thought a plane could not fly because it was heavier than air...
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: memoryman on June 22, 2015, 03:34:29 PM
The plane argument is old and tired. Even Stefan Hartmann knows why is cannot work. Go to http://revolution-green.com/rosch-smoking-guns-and-the-scientific-explanation/ on some insight.
No, I don't have to inspect it personally to know it's a fake because I am that good.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: Berto3 on June 22, 2015, 04:01:54 PM
Ok. The answer you give is exactly I mentioned as a closed mind. Cynism is a stong quality. Sorry I cannot handle that. End of discussion.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: memoryman on June 22, 2015, 04:40:47 PM
A closed mind is one that cannot consider alternative possibilities; if I had the desire, I could show you that I am the opposite of that, but seeing that your mind is made up about me, I'll pass.
Enjoy your closed mind (you have lots of company).
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: MarkE on June 22, 2015, 07:34:38 PM
Here is the TÜV Report from the small model:

http://pesn.com/2015/06/20/9602633_Why-Im-100-percent-sure_Roschs-KPP-Free-Energy-Technology_Works/TUV-w-recactions.pdf
That is not a TUV report.  It is a report from a company called WTLab.  The report is a bit of a joke.  The claim is that the column of water and the passive bits within it generate energy.  The shaft mechanical output was never measured.  They did some odd things measureing only the generator outptu or the battery outputs but never both at the same time, and then they calculated efficiency in one case as:

Page 8 efficiency = (resistor load power - battery power) / (resistor load power + compressor power - battery power)

and in the other as:

Page 9 efficiency = (dc generator power  - compressor power)/(dc generator power)

Neither equation makes any sense in terms of evaluating the system.  There are other curiosities in the report including that the battery bank voltages were reported to be exactly the same: 29.45V. 
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: MarkE on June 22, 2015, 07:35:56 PM
I follow this investigation/stories about the Rosch Kinetic Power Plant for some time now. I respect the decision of Stuart and Sterling to go to Germany to see with their own eyes if this new way of energy harvesting is real. My question is; Suppose it is true, what now? Despite all the skepticism in this and other forums; what are you people go to do now? Nothing to argue about anymore. After years of longing for an abundance of energy, we are there at the wider horizon. Limitless energy for all. Leaving some of the OU forum members in total desperation. Because they search for the impossible and not the chance that PM and OU just exist. Why not making a small KPP for our family and friends? Although we don't understand the principle by now, if it works, it is worth making a replica of the mechanics and electric circuit. We can be part of this energy revolution. Just as we where part of the information revolution after the introduction of the home PC, mid eighties.
It is a bucket of water for crying out loud.  This is as insane as when Sterling believed that an empty rusting metal box was a working free energy machine.

Before you decide that I have a closed mind:  Rosch claim that the tall water column (big bucket of water) plus its rusting internal buckets, sprockets, and chains produces output energy on its shaft far in excess of the compressed air at its input.  They claim the excess is so great that when used to drive a generator, the generator in turn runs the compressor making up for all the inefficiencies along the way and has power to spare.  But no one, including anyone from the group that was there with PESN, and not PESN either, measured the mechanical output of the water column machinery.  In fact Rosch has never produced any measurements of that from any of their machines. 

So, on the one hand we have thousands of years experience that passive things:  rocks, sprockets, chains, bags of wet hammers, buckets of water are passive, IE they do not produce energy, and on the other we have Rosch's claims which no one, even Rosch has shown any evidence to substantiate.  In the weeks before their trip, many implored upon PESN to develop a test plan that would evaluate Rosch's claims simply and unambiguously.  PESN did not publish a test plan, and it appears that neither PESN nor anyone else in their group took any quantitative measurements at all.

I will give you a hint:  Watch the videos of the device if you like, or just examine the photos taken of the machine running posted at PESN that show the horizontal chain between the water column and the alleged generator.  PESN's Stuart Campbell confirmed and it can be seen in video that the chain rotates anti-clockwise facing the water column, and clockwise facing the shaft output of the motor as indicated by the arrows drawn on each.  Let the chain be your qualitative torque sensor.  See what you see.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: minnie on June 22, 2015, 11:17:18 PM





     To get a bit of an idea a micro hydro 15kw would have a head of
say 40 metres and a flow rate of 60 litres a second.
   Look at a 15kw. hydro on YouTube and listen to it too!
          John.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: MarkE on June 22, 2015, 11:31:33 PM




     To get a bit of an idea a micro hydro 15kw would have a head of
say 40 metres and a flow rate of 60 litres a second.
   Look at a 15kw. hydro on YouTube and listen to it too!
          John.
Watch the buckets slowly turning over in the videos.  It's a complete joke:  A joke that has completely taken in PESN.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: hartiberlin on June 23, 2015, 12:40:13 AM
Another unbalanced wheel concept based on buoyancy and the hydrostatic paradoxon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtag7UeBOgY

This is much more clever and I have not yet seen anybody busting it...

Any idea ?
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: MarkE on June 23, 2015, 02:45:01 AM
Another unbalanced wheel concept based on buoyancy and the hydrostatic paradoxon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtag7UeBOgY

This is much more clever and I have not yet seen anybody busting it...

Any idea ?
Like many other unbalanced wheel ideas he ignores angles.  Start iwth energy end with energy and it is usually easy to get the right answer.  If you work in force then you are often stuck performing tedious and error prone integrals.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: markdansie on June 24, 2015, 02:25:54 PM
What part of this site is being shut down by Rosch ?



Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: Berto3 on June 24, 2015, 05:40:00 PM
Strange, the german site has also a flat line.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: Spilled Fluids on June 24, 2015, 06:01:39 PM
Strange, the german site has also a flat line.

Which one?
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: Berto3 on June 24, 2015, 07:12:39 PM
“Scientists may have sophisticated laboratories,
But never forget 'eureka' was inspired in a bathtub.”

Toba Beta about the Rosch invention
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: memoryman on June 24, 2015, 07:14:53 PM
And your point is?
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: Berto3 on June 24, 2015, 07:58:09 PM
@Spilled Fluids @memoryman

Sorry, that I was not clear about my reply. What I mean is a confusedness at this threat, and also the German 'fake' Rosch KPP threat, to response to what happened last months by Rosh Germany.
Do we have to be proud that Germany takes a leading role in marketing an overunity system?
Do we have to be ashamed that we cannot be happy, that an OU machine exists now?
Or ashamed because a next fraud in the OU field?
It can happen every moment that a system is discovered where more comes out than goes in…
But that seems a shock to the OU community. Maybe we cannot believe it, because our state of mind says that this cannot be. In other words we expose ourselves as believers but in the core we want only the confirmation of the second law. So this forum is confused when the good news arrives.
And even when it is a fraud, this tells a lot about people visiting this forum, incl. me.
This I mean with a flat threat. We don't know how to react at this kind of inventions. We look out for an OU machine for 50 years now, and when the moment is there we are all blasé. 
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: minnie on June 24, 2015, 07:59:35 PM



   The point is, ask Wayne Travis!
                  John.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: Spilled Fluids on June 24, 2015, 08:19:11 PM
@Spilled Fluids @memoryman

Sorry, that I was not clear about my reply. What I mean is a confusedness at this threat, and also the German 'fake' Rosch KPP threat, to response to what happened last months by Rosh Germany.
Do we have to be proud that Germany takes a leading role in marketing an overunity system?
Do we have to be ashamed that we cannot be happy, that an OU machine exists now?
Or ashamed because a next fraud in the OU field?
It can happen every moment that a system is discovered where more comes out than goes in…
But that seems a shock to the OU community. Maybe we cannot believe it, because our state of mind says that this cannot be. In other words we expose ourselves as believers but in the core we want only the confirmation of the second law. So this forum is confused when the good news arrives.
And even when it is a fraud, this tells a lot about people visiting this forum, incl. me.
This I mean with a flat threat. We don't know how to react at this kind of inventions. We look out for an OU machine for 50 years now, and when the moment is there we are all blasé.

Over Unity will not come from a contraption built on 2300 year old technology. This one is a fraud and will be proven so if it goes to court.

Maybe, one day some OU device or process will be invented or discovered but this one is definitely not it!
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: memoryman on June 24, 2015, 08:35:52 PM
OU in terms of ENERGY is extremely unlikely to ever become a reality; the probability is so low that I can't be bothered spending much time on it.
However, OU in terms of WORK is possible imho, and I am quietly working on that.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: MarkE on June 24, 2015, 08:53:42 PM
@Spilled Fluids @memoryman

Sorry, that I was not clear about my reply. What I mean is a confusedness at this threat, and also the German 'fake' Rosch KPP threat, to response to what happened last months by Rosh Germany.
Some people think that intimidating their critics is a good strategy towards meeting their goals.
Quote
Do we have to be proud that Germany takes a leading role in marketing an overunity system?
If it were true: Yes.  But it is not.
Quote
Do we have to be ashamed that we cannot be happy, that an OU machine exists now?
No such machine is known to exist now.  And certainly a rusty bucket of water and some mechanical bits is certainly not OU.
Quote
Or ashamed because a next fraud in the OU field?
There you go.  There is always someone willing to make false claims.  This is yet another one.
Quote
It can happen every moment that a system is discovered where more comes out than goes in…
Aliens might come and teleport us all to a nirvana at any second.  In the meantime we deal with reality.
Quote
But that seems a shock to the OU community. Maybe we cannot believe it, because our state of mind says that this cannot be. In other words we expose ourselves as believers but in the core we want only the confirmation of the second law. So this forum is confused when the good news arrives.
It is unevidenced.  Stare at a bucket of water and some mechanical bits all you want.  The collection is passive.  It generates no energy.
Quote
And even when it is a fraud, this tells a lot about people visiting this forum, incl. me.
This I mean with a flat threat. We don't know how to react at this kind of inventions. We look out for an OU machine for 50 years now, and when the moment is there we are all blasé.
People have been chasing OU machines for millenia.  There is no evidence that the "moment is there".
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: MarkE on June 24, 2015, 08:58:15 PM
Strange, the german site has also a flat line.
It works fine for me.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: MileHigh on June 24, 2015, 10:21:26 PM
I read up a bit today on this and it looks like it might be the old "generator is actually a powered motor" scam.

I see that Sterling and Stewart are falling chain, line, and sinker all the way to the bottom on this one.  So what else is new?
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: MarkE on June 24, 2015, 10:34:32 PM
I read up a bit today on this and it looks like it might be the old "generator is actually a powered motor" scam.

I see that Sterling and Stewart are falling chain, line, and sinker all the way to the bottom on this one.  So what else is new?
Would an AC power analyzer properly connected to the "generator" determine whether the "generator" was supplying power to or drawing power from the black power cable?  Yes it would.

Did anyone connect a power analyzer?  No they did not.

For added fun watch the video that shows the paternoster start-up.  Pay attention!

Not only have Sterling and Stuart fallen hook line and sinker, PESN is busy continuing their slander of herr Michael Adolph.  Now, Sterling has dedicated an article to attacking his person alleging partiality without challenging any method used by herr Adolph.  This in an article where Sterling admits his commercial interests that conflict with herr Adolph's findings.  Sterling expresses the strange idea that oen should just set established First Principles aside.  God knows Sterling has no trouble setting First Principles or any principles aside if it suits him.  The attacks on herr Adolph are disgusting slime.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: Berto3 on June 24, 2015, 10:41:41 PM
@MarkE
Thanks for the exegesis of my latest observation. I wonder if you were the best in the bible class. You are so resolute that Rosch KPP is a fake; no room for doubt. That's exactly whats going on. It's yes or no. No room in this 'fake KPP threat' for…maybe.
Maybe gives an opening to explore and that is not happening here. b.t.w. A good critic is an observator and not a dictator.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: memoryman on June 25, 2015, 02:20:01 AM
Why is doubt always a 'good' thing?
There are times when there is no doubt and it's clear: this is one of them.
A dictator forces his will onto others; where is that happening here?
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: MarkE on June 25, 2015, 02:47:12 AM
@MarkE
Thanks for the exegesis of my latest observation. I wonder if you were the best in the bible class. You are so resolute that Rosch KPP is a fake; no room for doubt. That's exactly whats going on. It's yes or no. No room in this 'fake KPP threat' for…maybe.
Maybe gives an opening to explore and that is not happening here. b.t.w. A good critic is an observator and not a dictator.
Rosch and their supporters are free to attempt to present reliable evidence at any time that would raise doubt against the presently irrefutable evidence against their claims.  Please:  Be my guest.  Pretending that First Principles do not apply because someone's claims depend on that fantasy doesn't create evidence in support of the fantasy.  So, please:  observe away.  Show reliable evidence that Rosch's rusting tower of trash produces energy net of its input.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: verpies on June 28, 2015, 07:03:25 AM
I read up a bit today on this and it looks like it might be the old "generator is actually a powered motor" scam.
To test this idea it would be enough to compare the tension on the top of the chain loop, linking the motor/generator, to the bottom of the chain loop.

Can this test be done visually without touching the chain ?  e.g. the looser side of the chain should droop down or vibrate with lower frequency and higher amplitude.

If this cannot be done contactlessly then the next engineer that goes there for a demo, should bring a contact chain tension meter with them.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: MarkE on June 28, 2015, 10:27:08 AM
To test this idea it would be enough to compare the tension on the top of the chain loop, linking the motor/generator, to the bottom of the chain loop.

Can this test be done visually without touching the chain ?  e.g. the looser side of the chain should droop down or vibrate with lower frequency and higher amplitude.

If this cannot be done contactlessly then the next engineer that goes there for a demo, should bring a contact chain tension meter with them.
Take a pencil and ruler to the still shots.  Two straight lines one drawn tangent to the chain from each side and extending to the other end.  The included angle at each is the change in slope across the droop.  I have done that and posted the results at R-G.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: Spilled Fluids on June 28, 2015, 05:18:56 PM
Take a pencil and ruler to the still shots.  Two straight lines one drawn tangent to the chain from each side and extending to the other end.  The included angle at each is the change in slope across the droop.  I have done that and posted the results at R-G.

there are enough shots of the chain with the droop on the top side to make this conclusive evidence of a motor drive rather than a generator. Nine of fourteen pictures that Sterling took show this droop.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: MarkE on June 28, 2015, 07:32:17 PM
The droop on the top versus the bottom is a tell-tale.  It is in one of the first two pictures that Stuart posted.  That is why I asked him to confirm the rotation direction.  Stuart on PESN insists that the top was more tense than the bottom.  He has not attempted to show that in any of the pictures.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: Spilled Fluids on June 28, 2015, 09:31:39 PM
The droop on the top versus the bottom is a tell-tale.  It is in one of the first two pictures that Stuart posted.  That is why I asked him to confirm the rotation direction.  Stuart on PESN insists that the top was more tense than the bottom.  He has not attempted to show that in any of the pictures.

A proper check would destroy his position as chief goderator on PISN and chief engineer at the Rosch site :o
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: MarkE on June 29, 2015, 01:38:58 AM
A proper check would destroy his position as chief goderator on PISN and chief engineer at the Rosch site :o
Stuart has been caught out in a number of lies, and has also demonstrated an extremely poor grasp of elementary science.  For example he does not recognize that Rosch's claims are for perpetual motion.  He insists that he should be consulted and is credible because he went to Germany.  His lies, ignorance, and now PESN's commercial interest in Rosch's claims suggest differently.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: Spilled Fluids on June 29, 2015, 01:44:11 AM
Stuart has been caught out in a number of lies, and has also demonstrated an extremely poor grasp of elementary science.  For example he does not recognize that Rosch's claims are for perpetual motion.  He insists that he should be consulted and is credible because he went to Germany.  His lies, ignorance, and now PESN's commercial interest in Rosch's claims suggest differently.

It is so fitting when their own photographs and videos show the fraud involved. I guess stupid is as stupid does  :o
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: MarkE on June 29, 2015, 11:49:40 AM
It really makes me wonder where people who behave in these odd ways think things are going to end.  It is difficult to think that they actually think the magic they insist is present is going to work out for them.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: verpies on June 29, 2015, 06:17:51 PM
What about that transparent device on wheels?

Is it possible to go to Germany and measure that contraption with my own gear?
Would someone offer me some free housing if I traveled there?
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: ATOM1 on June 30, 2015, 03:02:18 PM
You might catch herpes verpies if you go there
What country you in son ????

Why bother with something that is in question ??? come to me and get the real thing !!! Does it matter how it works as long as it does the job !

ATOM1

   
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: verpies on July 01, 2015, 12:28:09 AM
I just dislike frauds and I am traveling in the neighborhood.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: fredenergie on July 02, 2015, 03:13:55 PM
     Hello everyone, I am from France, I offer my concepte, if you are interested in her by her and chat with me, thank you for the questions                                      http://overunity.com/15847/total-mouvement-autonome-france/msg454472/#new     
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: tagor on July 02, 2015, 05:35:12 PM
     Hello everyone, I am from France, I offer my concepte, if you are interested in her by her and chat with me, thank you for the questions                                      http://overunity.com/15847/total-mouvement-autonome-france/msg454472/#new (http://overunity.com/15847/total-mouvement-autonome-france/msg454472/#new)   

why are you spamming every where on this forum ?
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: lumen on July 30, 2015, 06:20:12 PM
I don't know why I was thinking back about this device since it seems to be proven dead.
 
I had a thought about the operation, which everyone assumes is like what is shown in the demo version, when I thought what if......
Suppose the floats are filled with air at the bottom but then sealed and the air pressure recovered by pumping them back down to atmospheric pressure into the recovery tank.
This would give maximum lift from full depth and recover air pressure to be used on the next float.
It seems a waste of good air pressure to just fill them full and let it escape on the way up or to only partially fill them and loose lift while waiting for them to expand on the way up.
 
Did anyone calculate the output using this process?
This would explain how they can use a compressor with such a low PSI rating and still fill the floats.
 
 
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: minnie on July 30, 2015, 07:10:08 PM



  Supposed to work by displacement of water, can't see pressure in float
would have any relevance.
    I just thought in the movable unit the floats could have contained
batteries. Just a fun idea!
            John.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: seychelles on July 30, 2015, 07:47:04 PM
well mimi i know that this invention work. because this same principle that the ship
salvage operator retrieve tons of ships from the bottom of the ocean. yes they use
compress air to fill up big sacks attach to cables to the hull of the ship and wamo
and the ship is floating again..and this is just repeating over and over again..and
one thing the do not mention they can increase the efficiency further by heating the
compress air before it enters the chambers.. how using solar heater..this will be great in
the tropics..
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: minnie on July 30, 2015, 08:24:42 PM



   Oh there's no doubt it'll work, the problems with trying to recover anything
are horrendous.
     Have a read through "mathematical analysis of an ideal ZED" started by
Mondrasek and you will discover quite a bit about trying to recover potential
from a basically similar procedure.
            John.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: lumen on July 30, 2015, 08:32:40 PM
well mimi i know that this invention work. because this same principle that the ship
salvage operator retrieve tons of ships from the bottom of the ocean. yes they use
compress air to fill up big sacks attach to cables to the hull of the ship and wamo
and the ship is floating again..and this is just repeating over and over again..and
one thing the do not mention they can increase the efficiency further by heating the
compress air before it enters the chambers.. how using solar heater..this will be great in
the tropics..

You view is overly simplistic, recovery teams do not care how much energy is put into the float and heating the air before pumping into the float is counter productive as the air would cool from the water and lose pressure.
 
With energy production, sealing the float and extracting useable pressure for the next float is the only way the device could be working unless you want to keep adding energy to it to make it run.
An empty float will be just as buoyant as one with pressure and even more so as one with high pressure.
Plus, you get maximum buoyancy from the start and don't waste energy waiting for the air to expand as the float rises.
Plus, extracting the pressure from the float into a reserve tank with lower pressure requires little energy.
 
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: seychelles on July 30, 2015, 09:00:47 PM
it does not matter this idea is archaic, with the exponential development
of new efficient technology one who invest in such a system will be left with
 a white elephant.. see solar cells was invented just before the apollo mission
to the moon..but the generator we still use which is 100% inefficient
was invented by nikolas tesla. because it is still under the spell of lenze  law, friction, heat wastage
or to every action there is an opposite reaction. so for every one kw generated one needs to put 3kw..
the new idea will be that we learn to counter act the lenze and
 movement inefficiencies.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: lumen on July 30, 2015, 11:26:18 PM
it does not matter this idea is archaic, with the exponential development
of new efficient technology one who invest in such a system will be left with
 a white elephant.. see solar cells was invented just before the apollo mission
to the moon..but the generator we still use which is 100% inefficient
was invented by nikolas tesla. because it is still under the spell of lenze  law, friction, heat wastage
or to every action there is an opposite reaction. so for every one kw generated one needs to put 3kw..
the new idea will be that we learn to counter act the lenze and
 movement inefficiencies.

Yea, and perpetual magnet motors to!
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: minnie on July 30, 2015, 11:38:59 PM



  I think we found an ordinary spring to be one of the most efficient means
of recovering input energy. Air/water systems are very lossy, Webby went
to a lot of trouble trying to prove he could do it, whether he succeeded I
do not recall.
          John.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: lumen on July 31, 2015, 12:00:11 AM
Energy recovery is of no use if you can only recover what you put into it.
 
In this system if you pump from the recovery tank which has 4 psi into the float which requires 8 psi while under 20 feet of water, then if you close the float and let the air flow back out to the recover tank which has 4 psi, you have gained energy. If you continue to pump it down to 0 psi then you have recovered all the air at little cost.
 
So in the end you have a 20 foot float distance with about 12 floats on the up side -2 gallons or better of water each float. That's some real torque produced.
I'm not trying to duplicate this process, just wondering if anyone calculated this to see what RPM would be required to produce the 5kw of power output they claim and see if it's any where near possible.
 
 
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: memoryman on July 31, 2015, 12:18:00 AM
For a detailed torque/power/energy analysis, go to the revolution-green website, where Simon D and Mark E have shown that the system is overall very inefficient.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: lumen on July 31, 2015, 01:19:07 AM
Thanks memoryman,
 
Well I just had to do a rough calculation to see if this really has any chance of working.
If each float were 4 gallons (about 32 pounds of water each)
and there were 12 floats going up at one time (384 lbs pushing up)
and you could purge the water and recover the excess air in 1.8 seconds each float
with a tower of 20 feet you would yield and output of about 395 watts or .53 hp, without adding any loses.
 
If you simply minus the air pump of 120 watts you would have left an output of 275 watts to over come some friction loss.
I would estimate the total output to be about 200 watts above input max. With some areas of the calculation being estimated, I could suspect the output to be less than zero but with the air recovery it may possibly be 200 watts output!
 
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: memoryman on July 31, 2015, 02:24:16 AM
if you make your calculations sufficiently simplistic, anything will show to be OU.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: lumen on July 31, 2015, 03:28:18 AM
if you make your calculations sufficiently simplistic, anything will show to be OU.

That is true but even these rough calculations show you will need a mechanical loss of over 50% of the total output for it to fail.
A 50% loss from a mechanical device is possible but usually can be made much less by a better design.
It does look like a lot of work and expensive material to build a machine to output 200 watts of power when you can get the same output from two solar panels for about $200. and almost no work to install.
 
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: memoryman on July 31, 2015, 03:56:57 AM
The problem is with your assumptions; they are wildly of.
I have done the calculations and the end result is a very inefficient device.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: MarkE on July 31, 2015, 06:03:19 AM
Thanks memoryman,
 
Well I just had to do a rough calculation to see if this really has any chance of working.
If each float were 4 gallons (about 32 pounds of water each)
and there were 12 floats going up at one time (384 lbs pushing up)
and you could purge the water and recover the excess air in 1.8 seconds each float
with a tower of 20 feet you would yield and output of about 395 watts or .53 hp, without adding any loses.
 
If you simply minus the air pump of 120 watts you would have left an output of 275 watts to over come some friction loss.
I would estimate the total output to be about 200 watts above input max. With some areas of the calculation being estimated, I could suspect the output to be less than zero but with the air recovery it may possibly be 200 watts output!
Let me make this very simple for you:  The water container is passive:  It does not make energy.  The water is passive:  It does not make energy.  The mechanical bits in the water container are passive: They do not make energy.  What you get out is less than you put in.  If it came out in a form that is useful as opposed to the form that it went in, then the losses are a cost of doing business.  But here we have electricity into an air compressor and energy out of an electrical generator.  All the Rube Goldberg stuff in the middle just insures taht the electrical energy out is a small percentage of the electrical energy in.  The device is massively outperformed by a simple wire.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: seychelles on July 31, 2015, 01:43:28 PM
Guys i am sorry but this machine works because if it did not work for heavens sake where are
all the engineering of this earth hiding in a hole having an orgy, come on.. 911 yes that was
an inside job.. but this i mean it will not take a genius to figure out if it was a fake..I MEAN
 for the sake of being ashamed on their part if it is a fake i will keep it in my shed..it is not a fake..
the water is passive so is space a electrical wire is passive until it is live and you touch it and you are dead..
the principle is evident its buoyancy.   i have enclose rather an interesting invention of old to
 illustrate the non passive water.sorry the pdf file is too big but the invention TAYLOR HYDRAULIC AIR
COMPRESSOR 258 ST JAMES ST MONTREAL QBE. google search it please..
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: memoryman on July 31, 2015, 03:08:19 PM
It has been proven that this is a fake; you may choose to not accept the proof.
The total efficiency of this contraption is abysmal.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: seychelles on July 31, 2015, 03:27:54 PM
well good luck to a brilliant fake in broad day light just like 911..
and the Apollo 11 moon landing and the bumble bee..
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: memoryman on July 31, 2015, 03:36:56 PM
I would not call it a 'brilliant' fake. The evidence of it being a fake is clear: look at the chain.
This particular event stands on its own, so bringing up bumble bees, 9/11 or moon landing puzzles me.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: seychelles on July 31, 2015, 03:39:38 PM
ok explain yourself chain?
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: memoryman on July 31, 2015, 03:53:02 PM
Look at the 5kW unit while it is running.
The driving chain is looser and has a higher frequency oscillation on the wrong side, if this device worked as claimed.
If this needs further explanations than I suggest some basic engineering/physics courses.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: seychelles on July 31, 2015, 04:01:52 PM
well theyare selling these darn things in germany of all place , what are they
 going to north korea when the first customer find out it is a fake.. come on..
no not north korea because this dictator is exterminating even his grand mother.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: memoryman on July 31, 2015, 04:11:57 PM
They are taking deposits; not a single unit has been produced.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: seychelles on July 31, 2015, 04:25:41 PM
ok forget about archaic ideas and check out my briliant crescendo meg..
on tinman.s page and let me know if it is a flop..
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: lumen on July 31, 2015, 04:42:14 PM
Let me make this very simple for you:  The water container is passive:  It does not make energy.  The water is passive:  It does not make energy.  The mechanical bits in the water container are passive: They do not make energy.  What you get out is less than you put in.  If it came out in a form that is useful as opposed to the form that it went in, then the losses are a cost of doing business.  But here we have electricity into an air compressor and energy out of an electrical generator.  All the Rube Goldberg stuff in the middle just insures taht the electrical energy out is a small percentage of the electrical energy in.  The device is massively outperformed by a simple wire.

When I see a device that someone claims works I don't usually look for the reasons it cannot work because they a fully understood, I look first to what they could possibly do to make it work as claimed.
 
So in view of that I was simply examining a method (possibly the only method) this device could overcome all it's losses, and I agree there are many.
 
If a tank is under 20 feet of water and you fill it with air to purge the water, then the energy extracted by floating to the surface would be the same as the energy you put into purging the tank minus some losses.
 
However, if I use the air in the tank to run an air motor and generator, I have recovered some energy + that of the tank floating to the surface.
If I use the compressed air in the tank even more wisely by filling the next tank, then the losses are further reduced and the gain is even greater.
Time will tell if they have reached that goal.
 
 
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: memoryman on July 31, 2015, 05:07:20 PM
1: the air at the bottom needs to be at a higher pressure than at the top, so the air at the top cannot be used to partially pressurise the bottom float.
2: if the system is optimally configured, the air in the top float will be near atmospheric pressure; remember that water has to replace that air.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: lumen on July 31, 2015, 06:29:08 PM
1: the air at the bottom needs to be at a higher pressure than at the top, so the air at the top cannot be used to partially pressurise the bottom float.
2: if the system is optimally configured, the air in the top float will be near atmospheric pressure; remember that water has to replace that air.

That is wrong.
You are viewing it as the float is open to the water. If you purge the water at the bottom and close the float then the float still has the pressure used to purge it and it's no longer needed. If you simply connect it to the next float, it will partially purge another float at no extra cost.
Then if you pumped the remainder to the second float you could fully purge it also and never need any new air to continue the process.
 
Would it be more efficient to simply pump the water from a sealed float while letting atmospheric air flow in? Water pumping is much more efficient.

 
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: MarkE on July 31, 2015, 06:32:35 PM

When I see a device that someone claims works I don't usually look for the reasons it cannot work because they a fully understood, I look first to what they could possibly do to make it work as claimed.
 
So in view of that I was simply examining a method (possibly the only method) this device could overcome all it's losses, and I agree there are many.
 
If a tank is under 20 feet of water and you fill it with air to purge the water, then the energy extracted by floating to the surface would be the same as the energy you put into purging the tank minus some losses.
 
However, if I use the air in the tank to run an air motor and generator, I have recovered some energy + that of the tank floating to the surface.
If I use the compressed air in the tank even more wisely by filling the next tank, then the losses are further reduced and the gain is even greater.
Time will tell if they have reached that goal.
No, if you use the air in the tank to run an air motor, then you consume energy doing so and the air pressure is less and will displace a lower head of water.  If your ending air pressure is not higher than the water head at depth, then the machine stops.  If the ending pressure is greater than the water head, then your overall efficiency is better than without the air motor.  Any excess pressure above the water head results in loss.  Which leads to the corollary:  Efficiency only approaches 100% as the machine velocity approaches zero.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: MarkE on July 31, 2015, 06:42:40 PM

That is wrong.
You are viewing it as the float is open to the water. If you purge the water at the bottom and close the float then the float still has the pressure used to purge it and it's no longer needed. If you simply connect it to the next float, it will partially purge another float at no extra cost.
Then if you pumped the remainder to the second float you could fully purge it also and never need any new air to continue the process.
At the top you have to flood each float.  Excess air pressure will keep the water from flooding.  In the best case you could return the air at the top to the compressor input supply.  If you had perfect check valves that consume no energy, and exhibit no leaks, then you have a closed air loop submerged in water.  IOW, an overbalanced wheel that gets its overbalance condition from the compressor.  Take whatever practical compressor efficiency you can manage and you will find the thing is very inefficient.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: lumen on July 31, 2015, 07:02:21 PM
At the top you have to flood each float.  Excess air pressure will keep the water from flooding.  In the best case you could return the air at the top to the compressor input supply.  If you had perfect check valves that consume no energy, and exhibit no leaks, then you have a closed air loop submerged in water.  IOW, an overbalanced wheel that gets its overbalance condition from the compressor.  Take whatever practical compressor efficiency you can manage and you will find the thing is very inefficient.

When I say pump the air from the closed float that means it will have 0 psi at the bottom and still 0 psi when it reaches the top.
If the float has a solid shell and does not compress then the float is just as buoyant with 10 psi or -10 psi air inside.
It's only the displacement of water with something lighter that makes it float.
 
If you look back I thought it may be better to pump out the water and let air flow in since pumping water is much more efficient.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: memoryman on July 31, 2015, 07:22:31 PM
There is no -10 psi; the best vacuum is 0 psi.
"If you look back I thought it may be better to pump out the water and let air flow in since pumping water is much more efficient." how so? either way you have to displace the same volume of water.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: lumen on July 31, 2015, 08:20:07 PM
There is no -10 psi; the best vacuum is 0 psi.
"If you look back I thought it may be better to pump out the water and let air flow in since pumping water is much more efficient." how so? either way you have to displace the same volume of water.

-10 psi is simply quibbling, it depends on your point of reference. Since atmospheric pressure varies around 14.7 psi and most pressure gauges are set to zero at this pressure, the most you could get would be -14.7 psi.
 
Pumping water is much more efficient because it does not compress like air. A cylinder with a volume of 1 liter could compress air and purge very little water from the float, but the same cylinder could pump 1 liter water from the float in a single stroke.
 
Now we can see that this is the loop!
 
The inefficiency of compressing air allows some loss to be recovered but the work done after recovery could only be the same as directly pumping the water out which would be much more efficient but still be under unity.

 
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: memoryman on July 31, 2015, 09:37:19 PM
Since 0 psi denotes an absolute vacuum, it makes no sense to talk about -psi.
The whole bouyancy idea as a net energy producer is defective; whether it is 25% or 95% efficient is not the point, since the KPP is presented as an OU device.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: MarkE on July 31, 2015, 10:42:27 PM
Since 0 psi denotes an absolute vacuum, it makes no sense to talk about -psi.
The whole bouyancy idea as a net energy producer is defective; whether it is 25% or 95% efficient is not the point, since the KPP is presented as an OU device.
Lumen is being a little bit sloppy by omitting the term "gage".  He means gage pressure which can go to -1 ATM.

As far as the KPD (Kinetic Power Dissipator) goes, you are of course correct.  There is no arrangement of the elements that yields even a large fraction of the electrical input energy to the compressor as output mechanical work from the water column contraption.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 01, 2015, 03:23:12 AM
well good luck to a brilliant fake in broad day light just like 911..
and the Apollo 11 moon landing and the bumble bee..

I hope that you are not serious here.  IF you are, then you are really insulting thousands of brilliant engineers and hard working technicians that made the moon landings possible.  I feel very sorry for you if you believe that one of the greatest endeavors of mankind was faked.  It was totally true I can assure you, despite what you might have read on the internet or have heard from some wack job college professor.

Also, the bumble bee does indeed fly, as you might be aware, and, it adheres to all known aerodynamic principles.  What you are quoting here is just another internet myth repeated by uneducated idiots.

No educated person will ever take you seriously when you post crap like this.  It labels you.

Bill
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: lumen on August 01, 2015, 04:47:10 AM
Since 0 psi denotes an absolute vacuum, it makes no sense to talk about -psi.

I always thought I was living in a vacuum and now that I am holding this brand new pressure gauge in my hand and see it is reading zero I finally have proof!
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: seychelles on August 01, 2015, 12:13:21 PM
pirate it is easy if they can take a photo of pluto why don't
they just turn the hubble telescope and point it to where the appolo 11
landed and then i will believe.. they should have actually done that on the 50
th year to the moon celebration. and why did buz assaulted this guy when he was
asked if he really went to the moon.. mr armstrong refuse to swear on the bible him
being a christian he could not do that..nothing to do with him but with the higher Archie 0f
THE UNITED STATE OF AMERICA..SO WAKE UP  and smell the cat vomit they feed us in their
media movies and which other way they can infiltrate your pure brain..
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: MarkE on August 01, 2015, 12:49:19 PM
pirate it is easy if they can take a photo of pluto why don't
they just turn the hubble telescope and point it to where the appolo 11
landed and then i will believe.. they should have actually done that on the 50
th year to the moon celebration. and why did buz assaulted this guy when he was
asked if he really went to the moon.. mr armstrong refuse to swear on the bible him
being a christian he could not do that..nothing to do with him but with the higher Archie 0f
THE UNITED STATE OF AMERICA..SO WAKE UP  and smell the cat vomit they feed us in their
media movies and which other way they can infiltrate your pure brain..
http://hubblesite.org/reference_desk/faq/answer.php.cat=topten&id=77
Quote
Quote
Can Hubble see the Apollo landing sites on the Moon?

No, Hubble cannot take photos of the Apollo landing sites.

An object on the Moon 4 meters (4.37 yards) across, viewed from HST, would be about 0.002 arcsec in size. The highest resolution instrument currently on HST is the Advanced Camera for Surveys at 0.03 arcsec. So anything we left on the Moon cannot be resolved in any HST image. It would just appear as a dot.

If you would like to see pictures of Apollo landing sites, here is one place that you can look:  http://www.space.com/12796-photos-apollo-moon-landing-sites-lro.html

Buzz Aldrin punched Bart Sibrel only after Bart Sibrel followed and harrassed Aldrin continuosly for several minutes.  Sibrel's video crew shot the whole encounter:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wptn5RE2I-k.  Testosterone infused cowboys who were willing to risk their lives riding rockets aren't the type of personality that is going to get pushed around.


Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: SoManyWires on August 01, 2015, 01:05:41 PM
yes a spirited bunch those high flyers hehe
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: seychelles on August 01, 2015, 01:21:05 PM
it was  biggest waste of money going to the moon by now we should have had free
energy machine in every house in the world or solar cell plastered all over the world
same as all the wars these war mongering bastards have perpetuate on humanity..just this Iraq and Afghanistan
wars quadrillion of wasted dollars but it is all coming to bite us all ..the next stock market crash is just few weeks
away..get ready..i can go fishing and catch a feed..wake up and smell the CAT VOMIT..
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: SoManyWires on August 01, 2015, 03:03:08 PM
it was  biggest waste of money going to the moon by now we should have had free
energy machine in every house in the world or solar cell plastered all over the world
same as all the wars these war mongering bastards have perpetuate on humanity..just this Iraq and Afghanistan
wars quadrillion of wasted dollars but it is all coming to bite us all ..the next stock market crash is just few weeks
away..get ready..i can go fishing and catch a feed..wake up and smell the CAT VOMIT..

ya, the costs to put solid fuel rockets into space must be somewhat astronomical.
like the idea of using lasers from earth aimed upwards to fuel electric drive systems, though wonder if clouds  and badly positioned birds would prevent that.

while china saw their own version of the dollar fly way up last year, this last few months have been somewhat of a correction,
plus the investors of that currency also took their own markets strength for granted and overleveraged themselves in a way that could cause a slight domino effect and that is the fear of their lenders. a high fluctuating chart of a traded currency pair indicates instability and higher spreads between the two, but from what can be seen is that china and usa have a very low difference in the spread variations.
and rather than follow a trend, alot of traders seem to try to think they know exactly when a correction is about to occur, and thus end up locked into a holding pattern that includes small boosts fighting against those traders leverage allowances, before gradually or sometimes rather fast, chipping away in at their accounts holdings to greater levels,  because its common to notice a lack of knowing when its time to cut ones losses and walk away in order to remain in good shape for future battles.
sometimes the logic gets messed up, as they keep thinking: ok it isn't going to go any lower, a correction is about to occur!
but the even big money does not care if the smaller investor wants the market to go towards a correction just yet, margin calls, stop outs, humbling many including the lenders. and in china's case, there was alot of overborrowing. i think china's currency value has slipped somewhere around 30% recently.

at first when i read your statement i had to read it twice, the 2nd time i got it right,
but the first time it read something like, you had few choices, you could go fishing and eat that for dinner, or eating cat before sleeping causes people to have a weak stomach that brings up the cat vomit.  floor pizza.
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: seychelles on August 01, 2015, 05:22:30 PM
i was meaning us people WAKE UP AND SMELL THE CAT VOMIT. have you ever
smell cat vomit it is the most horrid smell ever invented by nature..
Title: Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
Post by: SoManyWires on August 01, 2015, 06:31:32 PM
yes, its smells like taco bell without the seasoning.
similar to a bulemic milkshake.