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Author Topic: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW  (Read 62310 times)

Offline minnie

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Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
« Reply #105 on: July 30, 2015, 07:10:08 PM »



  Supposed to work by displacement of water, can't see pressure in float
would have any relevance.
    I just thought in the movable unit the floats could have contained
batteries. Just a fun idea!
            John.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline seychelles

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Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
« Reply #106 on: July 30, 2015, 07:47:04 PM »
well mimi i know that this invention work. because this same principle that the ship
salvage operator retrieve tons of ships from the bottom of the ocean. yes they use
compress air to fill up big sacks attach to cables to the hull of the ship and wamo
and the ship is floating again..and this is just repeating over and over again..and
one thing the do not mention they can increase the efficiency further by heating the
compress air before it enters the chambers.. how using solar heater..this will be great in
the tropics..

Offline minnie

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Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
« Reply #107 on: July 30, 2015, 08:24:42 PM »



   Oh there's no doubt it'll work, the problems with trying to recover anything
are horrendous.
     Have a read through "mathematical analysis of an ideal ZED" started by
Mondrasek and you will discover quite a bit about trying to recover potential
from a basically similar procedure.
            John.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
« Reply #107 on: July 30, 2015, 08:24:42 PM »
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Offline lumen

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Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
« Reply #108 on: July 30, 2015, 08:32:40 PM »
well mimi i know that this invention work. because this same principle that the ship
salvage operator retrieve tons of ships from the bottom of the ocean. yes they use
compress air to fill up big sacks attach to cables to the hull of the ship and wamo
and the ship is floating again..and this is just repeating over and over again..and
one thing the do not mention they can increase the efficiency further by heating the
compress air before it enters the chambers.. how using solar heater..this will be great in
the tropics..

You view is overly simplistic, recovery teams do not care how much energy is put into the float and heating the air before pumping into the float is counter productive as the air would cool from the water and lose pressure.
 
With energy production, sealing the float and extracting useable pressure for the next float is the only way the device could be working unless you want to keep adding energy to it to make it run.
An empty float will be just as buoyant as one with pressure and even more so as one with high pressure.
Plus, you get maximum buoyancy from the start and don't waste energy waiting for the air to expand as the float rises.
Plus, extracting the pressure from the float into a reserve tank with lower pressure requires little energy.
 

Offline seychelles

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Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
« Reply #109 on: July 30, 2015, 09:00:47 PM »
it does not matter this idea is archaic, with the exponential development
of new efficient technology one who invest in such a system will be left with
 a white elephant.. see solar cells was invented just before the apollo mission
to the moon..but the generator we still use which is 100% inefficient
was invented by nikolas tesla. because it is still under the spell of lenze  law, friction, heat wastage
or to every action there is an opposite reaction. so for every one kw generated one needs to put 3kw..
the new idea will be that we learn to counter act the lenze and
 movement inefficiencies.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
« Reply #109 on: July 30, 2015, 09:00:47 PM »
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Offline lumen

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Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
« Reply #110 on: July 30, 2015, 11:26:18 PM »
it does not matter this idea is archaic, with the exponential development
of new efficient technology one who invest in such a system will be left with
 a white elephant.. see solar cells was invented just before the apollo mission
to the moon..but the generator we still use which is 100% inefficient
was invented by nikolas tesla. because it is still under the spell of lenze  law, friction, heat wastage
or to every action there is an opposite reaction. so for every one kw generated one needs to put 3kw..
the new idea will be that we learn to counter act the lenze and
 movement inefficiencies.

Yea, and perpetual magnet motors to!

Offline minnie

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Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
« Reply #111 on: July 30, 2015, 11:38:59 PM »



  I think we found an ordinary spring to be one of the most efficient means
of recovering input energy. Air/water systems are very lossy, Webby went
to a lot of trouble trying to prove he could do it, whether he succeeded I
do not recall.
          John.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
« Reply #111 on: July 30, 2015, 11:38:59 PM »
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Offline lumen

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Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
« Reply #112 on: July 31, 2015, 12:00:11 AM »
Energy recovery is of no use if you can only recover what you put into it.
 
In this system if you pump from the recovery tank which has 4 psi into the float which requires 8 psi while under 20 feet of water, then if you close the float and let the air flow back out to the recover tank which has 4 psi, you have gained energy. If you continue to pump it down to 0 psi then you have recovered all the air at little cost.
 
So in the end you have a 20 foot float distance with about 12 floats on the up side -2 gallons or better of water each float. That's some real torque produced.
I'm not trying to duplicate this process, just wondering if anyone calculated this to see what RPM would be required to produce the 5kw of power output they claim and see if it's any where near possible.
 
 

Offline memoryman

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Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
« Reply #113 on: July 31, 2015, 12:18:00 AM »
For a detailed torque/power/energy analysis, go to the revolution-green website, where Simon D and Mark E have shown that the system is overall very inefficient.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
« Reply #113 on: July 31, 2015, 12:18:00 AM »
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Offline lumen

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Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
« Reply #114 on: July 31, 2015, 01:19:07 AM »
Thanks memoryman,
 
Well I just had to do a rough calculation to see if this really has any chance of working.
If each float were 4 gallons (about 32 pounds of water each)
and there were 12 floats going up at one time (384 lbs pushing up)
and you could purge the water and recover the excess air in 1.8 seconds each float
with a tower of 20 feet you would yield and output of about 395 watts or .53 hp, without adding any loses.
 
If you simply minus the air pump of 120 watts you would have left an output of 275 watts to over come some friction loss.
I would estimate the total output to be about 200 watts above input max. With some areas of the calculation being estimated, I could suspect the output to be less than zero but with the air recovery it may possibly be 200 watts output!
 
 
 
 
 

Offline memoryman

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Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
« Reply #115 on: July 31, 2015, 02:24:16 AM »
if you make your calculations sufficiently simplistic, anything will show to be OU.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
« Reply #115 on: July 31, 2015, 02:24:16 AM »
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Offline lumen

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Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
« Reply #116 on: July 31, 2015, 03:28:18 AM »
if you make your calculations sufficiently simplistic, anything will show to be OU.

That is true but even these rough calculations show you will need a mechanical loss of over 50% of the total output for it to fail.
A 50% loss from a mechanical device is possible but usually can be made much less by a better design.
It does look like a lot of work and expensive material to build a machine to output 200 watts of power when you can get the same output from two solar panels for about $200. and almost no work to install.
 

Offline memoryman

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Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
« Reply #117 on: July 31, 2015, 03:56:57 AM »
The problem is with your assumptions; they are wildly of.
I have done the calculations and the end result is a very inefficient device.

Offline MarkE

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Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
« Reply #118 on: July 31, 2015, 06:03:19 AM »
Thanks memoryman,
 
Well I just had to do a rough calculation to see if this really has any chance of working.
If each float were 4 gallons (about 32 pounds of water each)
and there were 12 floats going up at one time (384 lbs pushing up)
and you could purge the water and recover the excess air in 1.8 seconds each float
with a tower of 20 feet you would yield and output of about 395 watts or .53 hp, without adding any loses.
 
If you simply minus the air pump of 120 watts you would have left an output of 275 watts to over come some friction loss.
I would estimate the total output to be about 200 watts above input max. With some areas of the calculation being estimated, I could suspect the output to be less than zero but with the air recovery it may possibly be 200 watts output!
Let me make this very simple for you:  The water container is passive:  It does not make energy.  The water is passive:  It does not make energy.  The mechanical bits in the water container are passive: They do not make energy.  What you get out is less than you put in.  If it came out in a form that is useful as opposed to the form that it went in, then the losses are a cost of doing business.  But here we have electricity into an air compressor and energy out of an electrical generator.  All the Rube Goldberg stuff in the middle just insures taht the electrical energy out is a small percentage of the electrical energy in.  The device is massively outperformed by a simple wire.

Offline seychelles

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Re: How Rosch probably faked their 5 KWatt KPP AuKW
« Reply #119 on: July 31, 2015, 01:43:28 PM »
Guys i am sorry but this machine works because if it did not work for heavens sake where are
all the engineering of this earth hiding in a hole having an orgy, come on.. 911 yes that was
an inside job.. but this i mean it will not take a genius to figure out if it was a fake..I MEAN
 for the sake of being ashamed on their part if it is a fake i will keep it in my shed..it is not a fake..
the water is passive so is space a electrical wire is passive until it is live and you touch it and you are dead..
the principle is evident its buoyancy.   i have enclose rather an interesting invention of old to
 illustrate the non passive water.sorry the pdf file is too big but the invention TAYLOR HYDRAULIC AIR
COMPRESSOR 258 ST JAMES ST MONTREAL QBE. google search it please..

 

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