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Author Topic: Magnetic Harmonic Drive System!  (Read 11329 times)

Offline gravityblock

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Magnetic Harmonic Drive System!
« on: May 02, 2015, 06:03:19 AM »
Magnetic harmonic drive demonstration, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djKkGAmgh-w

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Gravock

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Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnetic Harmonic Drive System!
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2015, 02:44:07 AM »

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Magnetic Harmonic Drive System!
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2015, 07:38:43 AM »
http://www.magnomatics.com/

Yes, but what about a concept that involves combining the principles of a Harmonic Drive with a rotating electromagnetic field, in a manner where by the combination produces high output torques without the rotation of the electromagnetic elements or permanent magnets, rotors, bearings or any other masses at speeds corresponding to the electrical frequency, thereby drastically reducing the device's inertia.

Drastic reduction in inertia, as compared to conventional electrical devices, provides for
increased power rate, power rate to weight, and power rate to electrical loss characteristics.

Reference:  Unclassified document on an elecromagnetic low inertia Harmonic Drive from Wright-Patterson Airforce base in 1963, http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/442879.pdf

Gravock

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Re: Magnetic Harmonic Drive System!
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2015, 07:38:43 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnetic Harmonic Drive System!
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2015, 10:10:24 AM »
Yes, but what about a concept that involves combining the principles of a Harmonic Drive with a rotating electromagnetic field, in a manner where by the combination produces high output torques without the rotation of the electromagnetic elements or permanent magnets, rotors, bearings or any other masses at speeds corresponding to the electrical frequency, thereby drastically reducing the device's inertia.

Drastic reduction in inertia, as compared to conventional electrical devices, provides for
increased power rate, power rate to weight, and power rate to electrical loss characteristics.

Reference:  Unclassified document on an elecromagnetic low inertia Harmonic Drive from Wright-Patterson Airforce base in 1963, http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/442879.pdf

Gravock
Do you understand that by "reducing inertia" they are talking about reducing the inertial mass of the rotating members by design?

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Magnetic Harmonic Drive System!
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2015, 07:09:21 PM »
Do you understand that by "reducing inertia" they are talking about reducing the inertial mass of the rotating members by design?

No, they're not talking about using lighter parts to 'reduce' the 'inertial mass' of the rotating members by design.  They are referring to replacing the rotating mechanical wave generator, which has mass, with a rotating electromagnetic wave generator to deform the flex spline, which eliminates the mass of the mechanical wave generator and eliminates the mass of the rotating members of the motor that drives the harmonic drive.  This has the effect of 'reducing' the overall 'inertial mass' of the harmonic drive itself, thus it's called a low inertia harmonic drive.

Gravock

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Re: Magnetic Harmonic Drive System!
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2015, 07:09:21 PM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnetic Harmonic Drive System!
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2015, 07:18:07 PM »
No, they're not talking about using lighter parts to 'reduce' the 'inertial mass' of the rotating members by design.  They are referring to replacing the rotating mechanical wave generator, which has mass, with a rotating electromagnetic wave generator to deform the flex spline, which eliminates the mass of the mechanical wave generator and eliminates the mass of the rotating members of the motor that drives the harmonic drive.  This has the effect of 'reducing' the overall 'inertial mass' of the harmonic drive itself, thus it's called a low inertia harmonic drive.

Gravock
How is eliminating rotating mass by design not reducing the inertial mass of the rotating members by design?  What I wanted to make certain you were not trying to suggest that they were building some electronic device that by its operation reduces the inertia of some object.

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Magnetic Harmonic Drive System!
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2015, 08:44:00 PM »
How is eliminating rotating mass by design not reducing the inertial mass of the rotating members by design?  What I wanted to make certain you were not trying to suggest that they were building some electronic device that by its operation reduces the inertia of some object.

I wanted to make certain you were not trying to suggest that they reduced the inertial mass just by using lighter parts.  If this was the case, then the project never would have been classified. 

Now, where did I suggest or indirectly implied that they were building an electronic device that by its operation reduces the inertia of some object?  I never suggested this, as you wrongly assert.  What I posted was taken directly from the unclassified publication itself, and I even attached a snapshot of the publication for a quick reference to support what I posted! 

Gravock

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Re: Magnetic Harmonic Drive System!
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2015, 08:44:00 PM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: Magnetic Harmonic Drive System!
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2015, 08:48:42 PM »
Deleted....double post.

Gravock

Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnetic Harmonic Drive System!
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2015, 09:16:37 PM »
I wanted to make certain you were not trying to suggest that they reduced the inertial mass just by using lighter parts.  If this was the case, then the project never would have been classified. 

Now, where did I suggest or indirectly implied that they were building an electronic device that by its operation reduces the inertia of some object?  I never suggested this, as you wrongly assert.  What I posted was taken directly from the unclassified publication itself, and I even attached a snapshot of the publication for a quick reference to support what I posted! 

Gravock
I did not say that you did.  I wanted to be sure that was not what you were trying to suggest, so I asked.

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Re: Magnetic Harmonic Drive System!
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2015, 09:16:37 PM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: Magnetic Harmonic Drive System!
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2015, 09:52:47 PM »
I did not say that you did.  I wanted to be sure that was not what you were trying to suggest, so I asked.

This is true.  However, you wrongly impied they used lighter parts by design to reduce the inertial mass of the rotating members.  Eliminating the inertial mass of the rotating members equates into a quicker response time, higher acceleration rates, and a higher COP while maintaining the high torques associated with the conventional mechanical harmonic drives.
 
This almost qualifies as a complete solid state harmonic drive, and you downplayed it by keeping it fully in the mechanical realm by suggesting the use of lighter mechanical parts to reduce the inertial mass of the rotating members by design!

Gravock

Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnetic Harmonic Drive System!
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2015, 10:14:00 PM »
This is true.  However, you wrongly impied they used lighter parts by design to reduce the inertial mass of the rotating members.  Eliminating the inertial mass of the rotating members equates into a quicker response time, higher acceleration rates, and a higher COP while maintaining the high torques associated with the conventional mechanical harmonic drives.
 
This almost qualifies as a complete solid state harmonic drive, and you downplayed it by keeping it fully in the mechanical realm by suggesting the use of lighter mechanical parts to reduce the inertial mass of the rotating members by design!

Gravock
No, really what I was after before going into any depth was whether you thought the document was telling the world that their inertia reduction you highlighted was a matter of design versus an extraordinary claim or reducing inertia by some process during operation.  There are people out there who believe in such things.  If that had been what you were claiming then that claim would have been the center of conversation.  I try to keep things simple and direct.  I don't always succeed.

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Re: Magnetic Harmonic Drive System!
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2015, 10:14:00 PM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: Magnetic Harmonic Drive System!
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2015, 10:41:03 PM »
MarkE,

Do you think a solid state contactless variable gear reducer should be the center of conversation?  Such as, a hybrid harmonic drive combining the magnetic contactless reducer from the video of the OP and a rotating electromagnetic wave generator from the unclassified document. 

Gravock

Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnetic Harmonic Drive System!
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2015, 10:52:34 PM »
It's a way to make a CVT.  When it was first invented, somebody thought it had enough military application advantages to classify it. 

Do you want to talk about applying it to something?  Do you want to talk about the principles of operation?

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Magnetic Harmonic Drive System!
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2015, 12:42:57 AM »
It's a way to make a CVT.  When it was first invented, somebody thought it had enough military application advantages to classify it. 

I know you can't be this gullible.  Leonardo da Vinci, in 1490, conceptualized a stepless continuously variable transmission.  Milton Reeves invented a variable speed transmission for saw milling in 1879, which he applied to his first car in 1896.  I assure you that the technology that came out of the once classified CVT program is much more highly advanced than any modern publicly known CVT of today.

A good example of this is Apollo 11's FIBER OPTIC LIE.  NASA used fibre optics inside the lunar TV camera, which they falsely claimed had a primitive vidicon tube ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGP0vgQBqUs )!  Here's Document 28-105 that discloses the use of a classified and still confidential fiber optics inside the camera case:  ( http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/MSC-SESD-28-105.pdf )

In other words, the classified fibre optics used by NASA in the 1960's is much more advanced than the fibre optic technology being offered to the general public of today.  They used a 'vortex fiber' to carry twisted light in order to increase the rate at which information can be sent along the optical fibre and to increase the bandwidth capacity. ( http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2013/jul/02/twisted-light-carries-data-over-1-km-in-optical-fibre )

Gravock

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnetic Harmonic Drive System!
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2015, 03:10:23 PM »
Magnetic harmonic drive demonstration, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djKkGAmgh-w

* Contactless reducer
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* No wear
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Gravock
The same magnetic transmission is used widely on industrial inkjet printers. This system separate and seal the ink compartment from the motor compartment. Convenient when the ink consist of methyl ethyl keton.

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