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Author Topic: Is Newton's Law At Risk?  (Read 26053 times)

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2015, 09:19:22 PM »
Here's another way to look at this.  If we rotated the flywheel by hand,  then the motionless axis and the frame holding the gear set and motor would then fully rotate in the same direction as the flywheel.  However, the rotation of the frame in no way will cause the gears to rotate around their own axis in order to provide a forward or counter torque to the motor.

It would be interesting to see if we could combine the principles of Tusk's paradox engine to provide a forward torque in Whoopy's replication.  I haven't yet fully analyzed the forces involved with such a combination.  More than likely, if we could provide a forward torque in such a combination, then it would open the door back up for a counter torque.

Paradox Engine:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG8YOp_njFs

Gravock

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2015, 09:19:22 PM »

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2015, 10:38:06 PM »
If you use both motions of the oscillation you will double your input costs and double your output.

No, it will not double the input costs to use both motions in this case.  For one, it will reduce the kinetic friction of the rope sliding on the one way bearing during half of the cycle.  Secondly, the motor is already providing the torque to both of the unbalanced gears to induce both motions.  Third, the torque from one of the gears that was previously encountering the kinetic friction of the rope sliding on the one way bearing during half of the motion can now be used to torque the flywheel.  This additional torque on the flywheel will then cancel the opposition between the two unbalanced gears that was present in the one way bearing configuration.


Gravock

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2015, 11:24:22 PM »
I added a poll to this thread.  Only one vote per user.  However, you may change your vote at any time during the discussion.  The results of the poll will only be shown to those who have voted.


Gravock

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2015, 11:24:22 PM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #33 on: April 20, 2015, 11:35:07 PM »
:)  you can guess which way I voted :)

Yes, you voted the wrong way, lol!

Gravock

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2015, 01:05:09 AM »
I added a third option to the poll, for those who may be undecided at the moment.


Gravock

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2015, 01:05:09 AM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2015, 10:36:15 AM »
Below are a few excerpts and screenshots from Kanarev's publication on mechanodynamics, which is key in understanding how there is no counter torque between the induced flywheel and the motor.

In old dynamics, an inertial component of deceleration bi was a part of a deceleration bp being generated by the forces of mechanical resistances to motion.  This hindered an analysis of the forces acting on all types of motions (accelerated motion, uniform motion and decelerated one). It was considered that the inertia force Fi, which also hindered the accelerated motion of the body, was not a part of the sum of all forces of mechanical resistances. It is the main fundamental error of Newtonian dynamics, which has remained unnoticed during 322 years.  Automatically, the inertia force was a part of the aggregate force of mechanical resistances, but everybody thought that it was not there. As a result, all experimental coefficients of mechanical resistances to body motion prove to be erroneous.

If a sum of the body motion resistance forces is determined during its accelerated motion, the inertia force Fi is automatically included in the sum of the motion resistance forces, and a result of the determination of resistance forces will be completely erroneous.

Gravock

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2015, 12:03:24 PM »
Below are a few excerpts and screenshots from Kanarev's publication on mechanodynamics, which is key in understanding how there is no counter torque between the induced flywheel and the motor.

In old dynamics, an inertial component of deceleration bi was a part of a deceleration bp being generated by the forces of mechanical resistances to motion.  This hindered an analysis of the forces acting on all types of motions (accelerated motion, uniform motion and decelerated one). It was considered that the inertia force Fi, which also hindered the accelerated motion of the body, was not a part of the sum of all forces of mechanical resistances. It is the main fundamental error of Newtonian dynamics, which has remained unnoticed during 322 years.  Automatically, the inertia force was a part of the aggregate force of mechanical resistances, but everybody thought that it was not there. As a result, all experimental coefficients of mechanical resistances to body motion prove to be erroneous.

If a sum of the body motion resistance forces is determined during its accelerated motion, the inertia force Fi is automatically included in the sum of the motion resistance forces, and a result of the determination of resistance forces will be completely erroneous.

Gravock

Webby pointed out earlier that the current draw is higher in the flywheel test than in the free hanging test.  I then pointed out that the current draw during the flywheel test was slowly dropping during the entire duration of this test.  This continuous drop in current is evidence of a decrease in the acceleration rate of the unbalanced purple gears.  In other words, the device never reached uniform motion and was undergoing acceleration during the entire test, albeit slowly.

Due to the additional resistance forces in the flywheel test, it takes much longer to achieve uniform motion than it does to achieve uniform motion during the free hanging test which has less mechanical resistance and has more mechanical freedom to take the path of least resistance as it freely oscillates in free space.

 The inertia force is part of the sum of all forces of mechanical resistance during acceleration.  However, during uniform motion, the inertia force is no longer a resistant force, and it will then be pointing in the same direction to that of the constant active force or prime mover.  Below is a snapshot shot of Kanarev's publication for a quick reference.

Don't confuse the mechanical resistance in the device as a counter torque from the flywheel to the motor.  If a sum of the body motion resistance forces is determined during its accelerated motion, the inertia force is automatically included in the sum of the motion resistance forces, and a result of the determination of resistance forces will be completely erroneous.  This is the error Webby is making.  Webby is making a determination of the resistance forces during an accelerated motion, which includes the inertia force, and erroneously coming to the conclusion that this inertia force is a counter torque from the induced flywheel to the motor.

Gravock

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2015, 12:03:24 PM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2015, 03:20:57 AM »
I will read this paper in due time,, I have not read it yet.

The assumption is not really correct,,

Again I will strongly suggest that you build and test,, when you do you will see that there is indeed a feedback due to f=ma,, those weights do not just spin force-less.

I have built and tested these kind of systems,, I know that the load is reflected back onto the prime mover,, BTDT

What assumption are you referring to that isn't really correct?  Once again you have put the cart  (effect) before the horse (cause) by assuming Newton's laws are correct! 

Newton's first law violates the principal of cause and effect!  Newton's first law of dynamics states, “Every body continues in its state of rest, or of uniform motion in a straight line, unless it is compelled to change this state by forces impressed upon it”.  In this statement, we see at once a violation of the principle of the cause and effect relationships.

Any motion is a cause of an action of a force, but it is missing in Newton’s first law; there is no mathematical model of this law, which describes its constant movement in space, but a body ignores it and moves with constant velocity V. The discrepancies being described are a cause of a violation of the principle of sequence of an analysis of the phenomenon or the process being described. This principle requires a description of the process or the phenomenon from its very beginning, not from the middle. 

An accelerated motion is the beginning of any motion, and a uniform motion is its cause. Thus, in order to return the principle of the cause and effect relationships into the former Newtonian dynamics, it is necessary to put the law of the accelerated motion of a body to the first place.  As a result, we’ll get a new dynamics. In order to differentiate it from the old dynamics, Kanarev calls it “Mechanodynamics”.

Gravock

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2015, 02:36:03 PM »
Webby,

My statement isn't an assumption.  It's based on logic, common sense, and rational reasoning.  Your belief that we should start in the middle and not from the very beginning in order to violate the principal of cause and effect is based on nothing more than some kind of nutbar logic and irrational reasoning.  Newton's inverted way of thinking has persisted for more than 322 years, and your a co-conspirator in perpetuating this nutbar logic in order to bamboozle and hoodwink the general population.

Gravock

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2015, 02:36:03 PM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2015, 11:52:14 PM »
You aserted that my assumption isn't really correct , and you won't even say what that assumption was.


Gravock

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Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #40 on: April 26, 2015, 12:14:22 AM »
Webby,


If there was less tension on the rope, then this would equate to less kinetic friction and resistance in the system,  thus the current draw would decrease.  The resistance in the system has nothing to do with there being a counter torque from the flywheel to the motor.


You can hold the flywheel stationary and the unbalanced purple gears will still rotate and the frame will still oscillate without much influence on the motor.  Like I said before, you can rotate only the flywheel, and the unbalanced purple gears would not rotate.


Gravock

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #40 on: April 26, 2015, 12:14:22 AM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #41 on: April 26, 2015, 12:36:27 AM »
What makes the gear frame move backwards?  remember that question??

solve for it and YOU will solve the riddle of the feedback system.


The unbalanced rotating gears causes the gear frame to move forward and backwards.  Please explain how rotating the flywheel only, will cause the unbalanced gears to rotate in order for their to be a counter torque on the motor itself? 


When the motor is driving the unbalanced gears, and the gear frame itself is held stationary, then the  gears themselves will continue to rotate at relatively the same rate after taking into account there is less kinetic friction because the rope wouldn't be sliding on the one way bearings.


Tusk as already shown through empirical evidence that an object that has a force applied at the center of its mass will travel the same linear distance as an object that has a force applied at the perimeter of the center of mass, which results in both a linear and rotational acceleration.  The rotational acceleration is free, and MIT has published a document that supports this also.


Gravock

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Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #42 on: April 26, 2015, 04:11:44 AM »
Webby,

I'm currently in the process of motorizing a bicycle.  This has a much higher priority for me at the moment.  My car was totalled out and I need transportation.  You lose alot of freedom without a vehicle.  So yes, I am currently building something.  Contrary to what you may believe, I have built alot of devices and done a lot of experimenting.  Oh, and I have plans to use this motor as a small generator also.

Gravock

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Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #43 on: April 26, 2015, 04:48:24 AM »
MIT also showed that the total momentum is the same whether or not a spin is induced.
Webby,

The conservation of momentum applies only to a system and not to individual bodies.  In addition to this, if the momentum is conserved, then the conservation of energy can be violated.  If the conservation of energy holds, then the conservation of momentum can be violated.  It's known by top physicists that Newton's zeroth law is invalid.

A good example in how COM holds while COE is violated can be seen in transferring the momentum of a heavier object to a lighter object, according to KE = 0.5 * mv2.

A 5 kg mass moving 1 m/s has 5 units of momentum and has a kinetic energy of 2.5J.  A 1 kg mass moving 5 m/s has 5 units of momentum and has a kinetic energy of 12.5J

12.5J > 2.5J !!!  <------ Conservation of energy is violated while the 5 units of momentum is conserved!

Gravock

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #44 on: April 27, 2015, 01:32:27 AM »
I tell you what,, you choose to see it your way and I will choose my way,, no problem.

Good luck on that conversion,,

Are you going to use the gas engine in the picture?

Now days you can buy an actual kit to do that job,, when I was really young we did the whole thing by ourselves,,

A washing machine motor and a wagon with batteries,, not a good idea :)

Yes, the gas engine in the picture is what I'll be using.  I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.  However, I would like to make one further comment and would like to hear your opinion on it.  I would also like to say I enjoy debating with you.

Let's say the unbalanced gears have a rotational momentum (angular momentum) of 5 units, the oscillating gear frame has a momentum of 5 units, for a total of 10 units of momentum.  If we then put a load on the gear frame where it's momentum decreases to 3 units of momentum, then the unbalanced gears will increase from 5 units of momentum to 7 units of rotational momentum in order for the 10 units of momentum to be conserved in the system.

As we can see, any feedback from the flywheel to the gear frame which decreases the oscillations, will then increase the rotational speed of the unbalanced gears in order for the momentum to be conserved in the system.  This increase in the speed of rotation of the unbalanced gears will then cause the gear frame to increase in oscillations, which will then cause a decrease in the rotational speed of the unbalanced gears in order for the momentum to be conserved in the system.  So, if there is a feedback, then this feedback is then deflected back to it's source in the opposite direction, which has the effect of no net counter torque.  In other words, Newton's third law is cancelled.

Gravock

 

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