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Author Topic: Is Newton's Law At Risk?  (Read 26112 times)

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2015, 09:12:27 PM »
4v .064 spinning the disc

4v .049 free hanging

I am not sure where f=ma is not being observed.

Mondrasek has a nice sim of something very similar to this and he was able to show what I could not measure,, that was the balanced nature of the input forces to output.

The input torque is in accelerating the weights,, the transfer torque is passed through the string.

The amps were slowly dropping during the entire duration of the spinning disc test.  The difference between the spinning disc and the free hanging test is due to the friction of the bearings that the motionless axis is sitting on, along with the friction and tension of the rope.  The rope is actually sliding on the one way bearing during half of the cycle, and this kinetic friction is acting as a slight load on the system.  This is why I suggested to replace the one way bearing with a scroller wheel, in addition to converting the full reciprocating motion to a rotary motion.  This is also the very reason why Karanev is using custom electronic clutchs and is how he's achieving the exponential efficiencies in his modified device. 

The only load this system will experience is in the kinetic friction that is inherent in the system.  However, this doesn't mean a counter torque is being transferred from the flywheel to the prime mover, due to reasons we find in Linevich's and Karanev's publications. Whoopy's crude replication is more of a proof of concept in how to bypass Newton's law.


Gravock

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2015, 09:12:27 PM »

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2015, 09:58:03 PM »
If there was a counter torque in this system, then there would be a net rotation of the prime mover. There was neither a net rotation of the prime mover in the free hanging test, nor a net rotation of the prime mover in the spinning disc/flywheel test, thus Newton's third law doesn't apply in this case.


Gravock

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2015, 10:40:34 PM »
Also, let's not forget the electric motor that is driving the unbalanced purple gears is also acting as a generator itself.  Solve this issue, and it may be possible to self loop the system.

According to Linevich, there's a similar case of default of the third law known in electrical engineering at the interaction of two mutually perpendicular elements of a current (or charges). 

Reference: 

http://www.tts.lt/~nara/amper/neutron.html

http://scripturalphysics.org/4v4a/motion_couplers.html

Gravock

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2015, 10:40:34 PM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2015, 08:43:10 PM »
Ask Mondrasek for the sim,, and ask him to explain it.

There is an oscillation between the prime mover accelerating the weight and the weight accelerating the prime mover.

The prime mover  is seeing a force in both directions, this is the resistance from the string, a net zero condition if you will,, and so it will pass on some of its force into the string,, as well as the weight will pass on some of its force,, but the weight gets its force FROM the prime mover.

Speed up the motor and what happens??  with this change in reactionary distance what then??

Webby,

Starting around 4m15s in the video of the OP, Whoopy moves the gear set and motionless axis back and forth by hand to simulate an oscillation.  This hand movement in no way causes the unbalanced gears to rotate and in no way causes the spindle of the motor to move.  However, the hand movement does induce the flywheel to rotate.  We can clearly see there is no reaction force on the prime mover or motor during the hand movements and rotation of the flywheel.  Also,  the volts/amps remain at 0 during the hand movements, thus another indicator for the absence of a reaction force. 

P.S.  My ex g/f has been holding my computer as hostage, and I doubt their is an android app to run the sim.  Also, my home internet connection has been down since my last post.  I had to use a free wi-fi hotspot to make this post.

Gravock

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2015, 03:15:23 AM »

Mondrasek has a nice sim of something very similar to this and he was able to show what I could not measure,, that was the balanced nature of the input forces to output.

Webby,

A sim is only as good as the theories and laws in which the coded program is based on.  For example, physicists have observed a violation of one of the oldest empirical laws of physics at the University of Bristol.  If you had a sim which was coded based on this law, then the sim would never show a violation of this law. 

We can then take the theory in how this 150 yr. old physics law was broken and recode the sim based on this new theory and the sim would then show a violation of this particular law in order to be inline with what the emperical evidence shows.

Same thing applies to Newton's law.  The sim will never show a violation of Newton's law if the sim is coded based on the laws of Newton, even if it's contrary to other emperical evidence.  If we recoded the sim according to Linevich's theory on how to break the third law of Newton, as found in his publication, then we would see a violation of Newton's third law in a simulation of Whoopy's replication.

Reference:  150-Year-Old Physics Law Broken, http://phys.org/news/2011-07-bristol-physicists-year-old-law.html

Gravock

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2015, 03:15:23 AM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2015, 04:44:32 AM »
Webby,

I hope you realize Whoopy's replication is emperical evidence of a possible violation of Newton's law, and a sim is totally meaningless in trying to refute this emperical evidence.

You are wrongly inverting the process by putting a sim ahead of any new empirical evidence.  Or should I say, you're putting the cart before the horse.

Gravock

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2015, 06:10:31 AM »
Webby,

I would like to also add, in the free hanging test the device isn't constrained like it is in the flywheel test, so it has more freedom to take the path of least resistance as it oscillates freely in space.

Gravock

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2015, 06:10:31 AM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2015, 05:10:04 PM »
Let me give you a small clue,, I have built and tested MANY of these setups,, hence why I said that Mondrasek could measure in the sim what I could not.

I also can change the setup and make an additive device,, that is you can bolt it onto an axle and nothing else and add a torque to the axle,, I can and have done lots of things,, BUT there is a feedback into the prime mover via the extraction of force.

You can get rid of the string and replace it with and arm or two,, if you set it up just right you can use a crankshaft instead of the one way bearing,, I have made lots of these kind of systems.

As a matter of what the heck,, I am right now playing with a variation of all these kind of systems,,  that would be all the ones I have played with,, and am looking to see if I can "break" the distance hook.

We can clearly see during the hand movements to simulate the oscillations that there is no feedback mechanism from the rotating flywheel to the unbalanced gear sets or to the motor itself.  You haven't provided one reference link to support your assertions that there is a feedback in Whoopy's replication.  Let me give you a small clue.  Your unsupported assertions are also totally meaningless in refuting the emperical evidence we observe in Whoopy' replication.

Gravock

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2015, 05:57:53 PM »
Well. then I guess that since you can oscillate the arm that is holding the gears  and get the gears spinning and that in turn will turn the motor means nothing to you.

This is a false assertion and a blatant attempt to mislead the reader!  During the hand movements to simulate the oscillations of the unbalanced gears, the unbalanced gears do not rotate around their own axis in order to turn the motor.

Gravock

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2015, 05:57:53 PM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2015, 06:33:59 PM »



I wonder what would happen if there was an AC meter put across the motor,, no feedback would mean no AC reading,, :)  it is after all a DC motor.

This is another blatant attempt to mislead the reader.  By reversing the polarity, the DC motor will reverse its rotation direction.  Likewise, if there was an oscillating feedback in Whoopy's replication, then a DC meter will still show a reading that changes between positive and negative values at low frequencies.  I'm 100% sure that DC meter is able to keep up with Whoopy's slow hand movements. 

The unbalanced gears do not rotate around their own axis in order to turn the motor during the hand movements, thus there is no feedback to generate a voltage/current

Gravock

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2015, 06:42:19 PM »

I would then also guess that you could not place a weight on a bicycle wheel and move its axle back and forth and make the wheel spin,, right??


This comment, along with your previous comments is highly suggestive that you either don't correctly understand Whoopy's replication, and/or you're trying to blatantly mislead the reader.

Gravock

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2015, 06:42:19 PM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2015, 06:57:19 PM »
Why would I do that?  Why would I want to mislead anyone?

I posted the evidence from the video itself that showed there was a load seen by the motor.


Most people will say or do anything not to be wrong or not to make themselves look bad.  It's called pride, and this is one of the many reasons for people to intentionally mislead others. 

You did not post evidence from the video itself that showed a counter torque per Newton's third law on the prime mover or motor itself.  The only thing you showed was that there is kinetic friction and resistance inherent in the system.  I even showed how to eliminate most of this kinetic friction that represents itself as a slight load prior to you posting in this thread.  This slight load you're speaking of isn't evidence of a counter torque from the flywheel to the motor.  This was another blatant attempt by you to mislead the reader.


Gravock

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Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2015, 07:00:41 PM »
I am also assuming at this point in time that you yourself have not in fact ever tried to make a wheel with a weight on its edge spin by shaking its axle back and forth.

This is another wrong assumption made by you!

Gravock

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2015, 08:23:53 PM »
You are showing all of your own pride.

Your suggestion of using the scrollerwheel would stop the driven disc from being turned,, it is the action of the one-way bearing that turns the driven disc.

You can't be serious!  The scrollerwheel would not stop the flywheel if the full reciprocating motion is converted to a rotary motion.  There are many ways to achieve this.  If it wasn't for the one way bearing in Whoopy's replication, then the flywheel would also oscillate back and forth without a net rotation.  In other words, the one way bearing is needed in Whoopy's replication only because the full reciprocating motion isn't being utilized.  Utilize the full reciprocating motion, and the one way bearing will no longer be needed for a net rotation of the flywheel.  Your pride has now fully manifested into stupidity!

Gravock

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Re: Is Newton's Law At Risk?
« Reply #29 on: April 20, 2015, 08:42:12 PM »

So,, by the way,, since you are insinuating that you have run a few of the basic experiments and can manage to make the wheel spin,, how hard is it to see that the the frame holding the axles for the gears is moving back and forth.

Simple stuff really.

Believe as you wish.

The frame holding the gears do move back and forth, but this back and forth movement in no way causes the gears to rotate around their own axis, and this rotation of the gears around their own axis is needed in order for the gears to have a negative or positive influence on the motor.

It really is simple stuff, and it's sad you're not able to correctly understand it.

Gravock

 

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