Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

2nd "law" violations => Heat to mechanical energy conversion => Topic started by: synchro1 on April 03, 2015, 08:02:04 AM

Title: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 03, 2015, 08:02:04 AM
Interesting Magnet Generator:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VonUp5Wicwk
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: shylo on April 03, 2015, 12:55:30 PM
That is interesting. I wonder how much torque you can produce.
I was trying to find a place where I could buy some or better yet salvage it.
Thanks artv
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: mscoffman on April 03, 2015, 01:26:05 PM
Any Gladolinium in the fridge?  ;)
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: Brian516 on April 03, 2015, 06:45:05 PM
I wonder if this would still work if one were to use cold and hot air to change the magnetic properties of the gd64.  That way, minimal energy could be used in the process via some sort of heat exchanger system.   For the 'heat exchanger', sunlight and dry ice could be used to heat/cool the air, and a low power pwm operated blower to move the air.   
Of course the goal would be to get more power from the rotational energy than is needed to operate the heating/cooling system. 
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 03, 2015, 08:55:18 PM
@Brian516,

Gadolinium's Curie temperature is around room temperature. 68º Fahrenheit! 

"Unlike the other more common ferromagnetic metals, which have a curie temperature of well over five hundred Kelvin, Gadolinium's Curie temperature is around room temperature at 293 Kelvin. Besides being superconductivity at extremely low temperatures and is strongly magnetic at room temperature, Gadolinium is the only metal outside the fourth period metals that shows signs of ferromagnetic properties. Today Gadolinium alloys are used in televisions, MRI, and in microwaves but in the future its ferromagnetic properties can be used to detect cold or hot environments".

It only takes a very small change in temperature to alter Gadolinium's magnetic properties. The demonstration of rotary motion by Meir Alfasi  is awesome. We only have to fluctuate the temperature of the Gadolinium a very small amount to get it to grow strongly magnetic or completely inert. The possibilities seem endless. Think about a frigid climate. The rotor might run through a window. At 67º Fahrenheit, the element is strongly magnetic. At 68º Fahrenheit the element turns completely inert. So we only need to alter the temperature of the element by one degree to generate rotary motion.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 03, 2015, 09:43:43 PM
Passing the the Gadolinium rotor blocks through a permanent magnet field alone is enough to alter the Currie temperature. Precisely temperature gauged with properly sized rotor blocks, correct spacing, rotor speed and permanent magnet field intensity, perpetual rotor motion might be attainable. The Gadolinium block would enter the field inert and emerge magnetic in the schematic below:

"Gadolinium alloy heats up inside the magnetic field and loses thermal energy to the environment, so it exits the field cooler than when it entered".
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 03, 2015, 11:45:30 PM
The Gadolinium rotor block would be drawn into the permanent magnet field at precisely 68º Fahrenheit by the magnetic attraction. This force would power the rotor. Initially, the block would heat up, and traveling at just the right speed, the preliminary rise in temperature might be sufficient enough to briefly push it just above the Currie point to turn the block non-magnetic and allow it to pass through and escape from the field before the cooling effect set in to return the block to the magnetic state. The rotor block would need to warm up a little before it came back around, because the process would have an overall cooling effect. Ambient room temperature might be enough to warm the blocks sufficiently at just the right temperature. A temperature controlled environment, like a glass box would need to be heated a little to sustain rotor motion. The sun would ultimately sustain the power to continuously run the generator.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: shylo on April 04, 2015, 01:46:52 AM
That sounds pretty complicated.
Why not just have a wheel with the bottom half in a cold running stream, and the top half travel through a solar collector?
Just thinking.....artv
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 04, 2015, 02:16:00 AM
@shylo,

These 10cm Gadolinium cubes run $31.00 apiece off ebay. They advise you to keep them away from water because they tarnish fast and shed a flakey scale.

Placing the rotor in a sealed plexiglass box placed over a heating pad would protect the cubes and allow for precise temperature control. The magnet generator would only require the addition of two permanent magnets to complete the unit.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: shylo on April 04, 2015, 02:26:22 AM
Can you seal it inside aluminum?
Put it in an airtight membrane.
Shouldn't be to hard to make it waterproof.
artv
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 04, 2015, 03:24:56 AM
Can you seal it inside aluminum?
Put it in an airtight membrane.
Shouldn't be to hard to make it waterproof.
artv

@Shylo,

A Pelton wheel could generate a good deal of power just from the water flow alone, but sure, it would help to protect the cubes that way.

"Instead of ozone-depleting refrigerants and energy-consuming compressors found in conventional vapor-cycle refrigerators, this new style of refrigerator uses gadolinium metal that heats up when exposed to a magnetic field, then cools down when the magnetic field is removed"

Think about it; There's no cost to a permanent magnet field. At 68º, the Gadolinium is attracted to a permanent magnetic field. The temperature only has to rise a tiny amount for the cube to unfasten and freewheel. All the rotor needs is a correctly spaced cooler Gadolinium cube in front of it to push the demagnetized cube free of the field and voilà! Perpetual motion.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 04, 2015, 04:12:31 AM
Here's a guy who has apparently perfected one already:  "Gadolinium Magnetic Generator".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNvGpUCNfVE
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 04, 2015, 04:37:06 AM
I have a boule of GGG (Gadolinium Gallium Garnet) that was grown at Bell labs. (It is single crystal)  It is about 1.250" dia. x 6" long.  I wonder if this would do anything in this application?  I have never tested its magnetic properties...perhaps I should?


Bill

PS http://www.magnetism-school.org/static/RAMS2/GGG_J_Phys_Conf_Ser_2009_Petrenko.pdf (http://www.magnetism-school.org/static/RAMS2/GGG_J_Phys_Conf_Ser_2009_Petrenko.pdf)

Here is a paper on GGG's unique magnetic properties.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 04, 2015, 04:43:20 AM
I have a boule of GGG (Gadolinium Gallium Garnet) that was grown at Bell labs. (It is single crystal)  It is about 1.250" dia. x 6" long.  I wonder if this would do anything in this application?  I have never tested its magnetic properties...perhaps I should?


Bill

@Pirate88179,

It should warm up enough in a closed fist to pass through the Currie temperature of 68º Fahrenheit and lose it's magnetic attraction.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 04, 2015, 04:51:13 AM
@Pirate88179,

It should warm up enough in a closed fist to pass through the Currie temperature of 68º Fahrenheit and lose it's magnetic attraction.

That paper I posted a link to list many things I need to have time to read.  It appears that it is not magnetic at room temperature here....at this point. (around 65% F)  I can heat it in my hand, or wherever but, it already does not exhibit magnetic properties at room temp.

Perhaps I should place it in my freezer to see if it becomes magnetic?  I think the paper was talking about much lower temps than that...but am not sure.  This boule looks not much different than my single crystal sapphire one except it has a slight coffee color to it.  My ruby boule is, of course red, which is really just single crystal sapphire with .05% chromium added.  (These were grown for ruby lasers)

I will look into this further but, initial tests with a neo show no magnetics at 65% F.

Bill
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 04, 2015, 05:07:35 AM
@Pirate88179,

Try and refrigerate it and see what happens. There're lots of different alloys.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: shylo on April 04, 2015, 01:50:06 PM
Where is it in old TVs' and fridges, I can't afford 31 dollars a cube.
This is definately worth looking into.
artv
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: Paul-R on April 04, 2015, 02:17:55 PM
Can you seal it inside aluminum?
Put it in an airtight membrane.
Shouldn't be to hard to make it waterproof.
artv
Give it a coat of varnish.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 04, 2015, 07:01:55 PM
Give it a coat of varnish.

@Paul-R,

           Brilliant!
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 04, 2015, 08:22:33 PM
@Paul-R,

           Brilliant!

Yes, or polyurethane.  It is more of a plastic so it might seal better.

Good idea Paul.

Bill
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 05, 2015, 12:53:53 AM
I found this video clearly demonstrating Gadolinium´s unique room temperature Curie temperature (above which ferromagnetism vanishes) lying just a room temperature (293.2K) = 68.09º farenheit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrthB0n-Yd4

From Metallium Inc:

http://www.elementsales.com/

Rod 1/2 inch dia
25 Grams, 1 inch long
Price: $58.00 - Purity 99%
Availability: 1 Week

Featured in the video.






Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 05, 2015, 02:28:43 AM
https://www.kjmagnetics.com/products.asp?cat=16

Dimensions: 1" od x 1/4" id x 1" thick
Tolerances: ±0.004" x ±0.004" x ±0.004"
Material: NdFeB, Grade N42
Plating/Coating: Ni-Cu-Ni (Nickel)
Magnetization Direction: Diametrical
Weight: 3.19 oz. (90.5 g)
Pull Force, Case 1: 40.44 lbs
Pull Force, Case 2: 49.01 lbs
Surface Field: 6909 Gauss
Brmax: 13,200 Gauss
BHmax: 42 MGOe

These rings are diametrically magnetized, which means they are magnetized perpendicular to the axis of the hole. The poles are located on opposite sides of the circular faces. They can be placed on a shaft to work with sensors or to generate electricity.

$22.77. Two or more of these same length as the Gadolinium plugs might work well sandwiching the cylinder in opposition. The Gadolinium undergoes it's maximum temperature shift from magnetic field exposure right at the Currie point. A  computer fan and a a pair of light bulbs would complete the magnet generator.

That's a proof of concept setup for under a hundred bucks. The "Madras" prototype "Gadolinium Magnetic Generator" in the video has probably already been bought and suppressed. That would explain why no one has seen any more of it.

Ideally, the Gadolinium cylinder would be attracted into the center of the permanent magnet field at 68.08º Fahrenheit, rise 2/100ths of a degree to 68.10º, lose it's attraction and sail out the other side. The cylinder would then cool and need to pass between the heated bulbs to raise the temperature back up to the threshold level. The rotor speed would depend on the heating interval and would be a function of PM flux density. The bulb heating would need to intensify with speed. The larger the rotor, the more efficient it would run. Two ring magnets would exert over 80 pounds of force on the Gadolinium rotor plug on entry. That's a lot of torque!
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 05, 2015, 03:37:55 AM
https://www.kjmagnetics.com/products.asp?cat=16 (https://www.kjmagnetics.com/products.asp?cat=16)

Dimensions: 1" od x 1/4" id x 1" thick
Tolerances: ±0.004" x ±0.004" x ±0.004"
Material: NdFeB, Grade N42
Plating/Coating: Ni-Cu-Ni (Nickel)
Magnetization Direction: Diametrical
Weight: 3.19 oz. (90.5 g)
Pull Force, Case 1: 40.44 lbs
Pull Force, Case 2: 49.01 lbs
Surface Field: 6909 Gauss
Brmax: 13,200 Gauss
BHmax: 42 MGOe

These rings are diametrically magnetized, which means they are magnetized perpendicular to the axis of the hole. The poles are located on opposite sides of the circular faces. They can be placed on a shaft to work with sensors or to generate electricity.

$22.77. Two or more of these same length as the Gadolinium plugs might work well sandwiching the cylinder in opposition. The Gadolinium undergoes it's maximum temperature shift from magnetic field exposure right at the Currie point. A  computer fan and a a pair of light bulbs would complete the magnet generator.

That's a proof of concept setup for under a hundred bucks. The "Madras" prototype "Gadolinium Magnetic Generator" in the video has probably already been bought and suppressed. That would explain why no one has seen any more of it.

Ideally, the Gadolinium cylinder would be attracted into the center of the permanent magnet field at 68.08º Fahrenheit, rise 2/100ths of a degree to 68.10º, lose it's attraction and sail out the other side. The cylinder would then cool and need to pass between the heated bulbs to raise the temperature back up to the threshold level. The rotor speed would depend on the heating interval and would be a function of PM flux density. The bulb heating would need to intensify with speed. The larger the rotor, the more efficient it would run.

I have some large neos that are diametrically magnetized and look exactly like those photos.  I got them for my JonnyDavro One Magnet No Bearing Bedini experiments.  They are very strong and I can hardly pull them apart as I store them together.

Bill
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 05, 2015, 04:38:54 AM
I have some large neos that are diametrically magnetized and look exactly like those photos.  I got them for my JonnyDavro One Magnet No Bearing Bedini experiments.  They are very strong and I can hardly pull them apart as I store them together.

Bill

@Pirate88179,

Order one of those Gadolinium rods for $58. Put it on a pendulum and try and see if you can propel it through the PM field at the Currie point. Try for just the tip of the rod. Maybe try the sample you already have.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 05, 2015, 05:51:57 PM
Something struck me about this Yildiz Magnet Motor. I wonder if "Gadolinium" is a concealed component?

From Sterling Allen:

35+ Reasons Why I Think Yildiz' Magnet Motor Really Works - Reasons include: no heat, "it runs at ambient temperature". Sterling's temperature test may reveal more then he sought after!

Look at this video you'll notice that Yildiz is running the Magnet Motor inside a protective plexiglass shield, and that the fan is directing air flow back through the motor perhaps through adjustable ventilation holes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDpKqdcDDrQ

Quote:

"I see two different types of metals insolated by something, on both units".

Lastly;

The Delft University test had thermostatic room temperature control, where Yildiz ran his magnet motor with no fan. Does Yildiz attempt to control the Currie point of Gadolinium rotor studs with these curious background features?
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: memoryman on April 05, 2015, 07:39:56 PM
interesting thought, synchro1.
Although using this material gives lots of possibility, in the end I doubt that the energy required to control the heat transfers that a 'motor' would need, is less than than any output obtained. It's a bit like Maxwell's Deamon'?
Still, interesting.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 06, 2015, 12:12:53 AM
Researching MCE I found the effect is practically "Instantaneous" and "Reversible"!

"Magnetic refrigeration is based on the Magnetocaloric Effect (MCE). The MCE implies that the temperature of suitable materials (Magnetocaloric Materials, MCM) increases when exposing to a magnetic field and decreases when it stops.

 "The temperature to which this effect is the strongest (the Curie temperature) depends on the properties of every material. The effect is reversible and almost instantaneous". 

This means a Gadolinium rotor Stud may not experience cogging.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 06, 2015, 02:54:25 AM
Running the rotor vertically with the magnets at the base might permit us to capture and recirculate the heat with a fluid that would rise overhead from the heat, be cooled by the passing Gadolinium studs and sink to the bottem on it's own. MCE refrigerator parts might double for this appendage.

@Pirate88179,

The Gadolinium, Silicon, Germanium alloy developed by Ames has a currie point of 27º Fahrenheit.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: shylo on April 06, 2015, 06:38:24 AM
Just need to find a cheap supply of that gadolinium.
artv
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 06, 2015, 04:32:14 PM
Patent for a gadolinium magnetic motor:  http://www.google.com/patents/US3743866

You can buy $20 1/10 ounce gadolinium coins here:  http://www.elementsales.com/index
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 06, 2015, 07:19:01 PM
http://www.google.com/patents/US3743866

@ekimtoor1,

This Is a very interesting patent. It dates back to 1973 before the current advances in MCE. Two separate rotor magnets in attraction, rather then opposition like the patent, with Gadolinium in between at the currie point, would both be attracted to the Gadolinium. The nearly instantaneous heating from the permanent magnet field would eliminate the ferromagnetic attraction of the Gadolinium and perhaps allow the two rotors to slip by depending on their separation distance and the thickness of the Gadolinium.

This approach would result in low torque because the Gadolinium would need to change temperature again in time for the next pair
of rotor magnets instead of having a full revolution for the transition. This design would depend heavily on the efficiency of the heating electrodes. Nice find! Thank you. 
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 06, 2015, 07:23:16 PM
I researched the transition speed of gadolinium and found a few things, nothing I could understand.  Does anyone know the speed of the transition from ferromagnetic to non and vice versa?  I've read that gadolinium will be cooler on exiting the magnetic field than when it arrived.  Is this true?

I ordered a couple of the coins so I can do some hands on with the stuff.

@synchro1 - glad I could contribute something useful! You are welcome!
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: memoryman on April 06, 2015, 07:26:20 PM
I have trouble finding the exact specs for these alloys and metals re the speed of heating; "nearly instantaneous heating from the permanent magnet field" do you have specs for that?
I have some ideas, which I'll be happy to share, but they depend on the characteristics of the materials.
Bill
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 06, 2015, 07:37:53 PM
if a small peltier module was fixed to gandolinium, would the heat flow efficiently enough from the gandolinium into the peltier (could harvest  a few electrons too) to allow it to come back below the curie point in time to cycle the next rotor magnet? 

Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 06, 2015, 08:56:59 PM
Here´s Tesla´s version:

Diagram from Tesla's patent of 1889.

"Assume that we start with the armature A attracted to the magnet N. A is heated by the gas burner H, loses its magnetic properties and is pushed up and away from magnet N and burner H by the spring W. A then cools, becomes magnetic again, and is attracted back to the magnet, where the burner starts to heat it up again. The cycle turns the flywheel 13 through connecting rod 12".
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 06, 2015, 09:03:24 PM
"Modern thermomagnetic engines are not reciprocating like Tesla's proposal, but produce continuous rotation. The ferromagnetic material is a rotor in the form of a ring or cylinder, which moves into a magnetic field created by permanent magnets. It is heated at one point so that it has lost its ferromagnetism when it leaves the field. There is therefore a steady net pull on the rotor, causing it to turn on its axis. The rotor is then cooled and regains its ferromagnetism before it re-enters the magnetic field".

"A practical version of this can generate 100W of power at 1.5 revolutions per second". What do you notice about the motor schematic below? There's no power source!

Based on this factor, I feel it's safe to assume a rotor of multipal Gadolinium studs should be capable of at least 90 RPM just from the MCE effect alone. 100 continuous watts generated non stop night and day would equal a roof full of solar panels. This kind of motor would tie into a "Tesla Home Battery" very nicely.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 06, 2015, 09:36:22 PM
Look how the MCE and Gadolinium would improve the obscure "Tesla Patent" above. Tesla has an iron armature and a gas burner. A horseshoe magnet and Gadolinium armature at the Currie point attached to a spring would drive the flywheel like crazy with no input at all!
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: memoryman on April 06, 2015, 09:43:22 PM
synchro1, where is the math to support the "100W"? A rooftop of solar cell can supply KWs of power, a lot more than 100W.
I am not optimistic that this can supply any net energy, or be economical, especially given the price of Gadolinium at ~ $1/gm.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 06, 2015, 10:02:22 PM
Gadolinium is not consumed so it does not seem it's price makes much difference...

Does a supercap release any heat as it is charged?
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 06, 2015, 10:05:26 PM
@memoryman,

That would depend on the size of the roof and the efficiency of the panels compared to the size of the Gadolinium rotor and power of the permanent magnets. The big advantage of the magnet motor over the solar panels is of course it's ability run through the night and on rainy days.

The "Tesla Reciprocater" looks like a winner with only one piece of costly Gadolinium required to power a flywheel.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 06, 2015, 11:01:09 PM
Gadolinium is not consumed so it does not seem it's price makes much difference...

Does a supercap release any heat as it is charged?

@ekimtoor1,

Here's a quote from Wikipedia: I see your point.

"Ripple current causes heat to be generated within the capacitor due to the dielectric losses caused by the changing field strength together with the current flow across the slightly resistive supply lines or the electrolyte in the capacitor".
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 06, 2015, 11:05:41 PM
Seems there are two ways. Cool something or heat something. I was thinking about recycleable heat sources that might exist in a design using GD.

Yes thanks synchro. I figured there had to be some.

There's gonna be like a heat spike at the GD right?  A rotor cycling at whatever speed the GD transition occurs and then altering the temp in the GD at that speed is a strange thing to think about. 

An infrared flash of sorts I guess?
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on April 06, 2015, 11:50:38 PM
Hi All,

Lots of interesting ideas here.

A couple ideas came to mind on how to use this material. One is to take a cylinder of the material and place a north and south magnet at each end and wrap a coil around it. Then submerge it between cold and hot water. It should generate a pulse as it transitions from each state. That idea needs some form of mechanism to run though.

The next idea which is drawn out is pretty much mechanics free except for a heat source on the fins the water could be a cold stream. If it does work it would be more of an energy harvester than a power source. Not sure if it's half baked idea yet. I ordered a cylinder from the Metallium Inc. link above to experiment with so maybe in another week I'll be able to do some tests.

Thanks Synchro for starting this topic.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 07, 2015, 03:07:18 AM
@DreamThinkBuild,

                             I'm very excited by your new concept. Can't wait to see how it develops. Good luck!
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 07, 2015, 05:38:29 AM
Patent for a gadolinium magnetic motor:  http://www.google.com/patents/US3743866 (http://www.google.com/patents/US3743866)

You can buy $20 1/10 ounce gadolinium coins here:  http://www.elementsales.com/index (http://www.elementsales.com/index)

At that same site you linked to, you can get a 50 gram ingot (almost 2 oz) for $38.00.  Also, a nice machined rod 1/2" dia x 1" long
25 grams (almost 1 oz.) for $58.  It appears that the ingot is the best deal in my opinion.




Bill

Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: tak22 on April 07, 2015, 06:15:06 AM
I researched the transition speed of gadolinium and found a few things, nothing I could understand.  Does anyone know the speed of the transition from ferromagnetic to non and vice versa?


This paper calculates a 11hz cycle frequency through the Curie Point:

Thermodynamic and Relaxation Processes near Curie Point in Gadolinium
http://www.google.com/url?url=http://arxiv.org/pdf/1404.5648&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&sa=U&ei=F1gjVYHAA4qGyATUn4HYDw&ved=0CBQQFjAA&sig2=vHS-DOXv9BKOuXBcqCmBDw&usg=AFQjCNEjtHcyVSq7mjAfPwBv0QRuLkTplg (http://www.google.com/url?url=http://arxiv.org/pdf/1404.5648&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&sa=U&ei=F1gjVYHAA4qGyATUn4HYDw&ved=0CBQQFjAA&sig2=vHS-DOXv9BKOuXBcqCmBDw&usg=AFQjCNEjtHcyVSq7mjAfPwBv0QRuLkTplg)
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 07, 2015, 07:17:33 AM

This paper calculates a 11hz cycle frequency through the Curie Point:

Thermodynamic and Relaxation Processes near Curie Point in Gadolinium
http://www.google.com/url?url=http://arxiv.org/pdf/1404.5648&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&sa=U&ei=F1gjVYHAA4qGyATUn4HYDw&ved=0CBQQFjAA&sig2=vHS-DOXv9BKOuXBcqCmBDw&usg=AFQjCNEjtHcyVSq7mjAfPwBv0QRuLkTplg (http://www.google.com/url?url=http://arxiv.org/pdf/1404.5648&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&sa=U&ei=F1gjVYHAA4qGyATUn4HYDw&ved=0CBQQFjAA&sig2=vHS-DOXv9BKOuXBcqCmBDw&usg=AFQjCNEjtHcyVSq7mjAfPwBv0QRuLkTplg)

@tak22,

Thanks. Very valuable data! That puts the RPM at around 660, very close to the speed Meir Alfasi appears to be running his hot & cold water prototype in the video. 18 grams is cited as the optimum weight for Gadolinium's maximum transition frequency.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: lumen on April 07, 2015, 09:24:28 PM
Looking around at Gadolinium prices it appears you can find it for $100 to $150 per pound.
 
Using just Gadolinium and magnet one might be able to build a room temperature heat engine but not much energy could be converted unless it was very large.
 
On the other hand suppose the design was changed a bit so the rotor was comprised of a few magnets with thin Gadolinium slices to conduct the magnetic field into a coil while attracting the magnets to the coil. Once inline a small current could be applied to the thin Gadolinium to heat it rapidly and become non magnetic.
The operation could provide electrical current to run itself with the environment providing only cooling.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 08, 2015, 01:48:01 AM
Looking around at Gadolinium prices it appears you can find it for $100 to $150 per pound.
 
Using just Gadolinium and magnet one might be able to build a room temperature heat engine but not much energy could be converted unless it was very large.
 
On the other hand suppose the design was changed a bit so the rotor was comprised of a few magnets with thin Gadolinium slices to conduct the magnetic field into a coil while attracting the magnets to the coil. Once inline a small current could be applied to the thin Gadolinium to heat it rapidly and become non magnetic.
The operation could provide electrical current to run itself with the environment providing only cooling.

@lumen,

Heating the Gadolinium slices rapidly with the coil to become magnetic sounds as though it might work alright, but cooling enough to re-grow magnetic from the environment alone may not be rapid enough for the Gadolinium to attract the next rotor magnet.

There's a difference between the adiabatic heating and cooling effect caused by exposure to a permanent field and demagnetization, and heat transfer through induction. The adiabatic temperature change is only in the range of a few degrees in the Gadolinium from PM field exposure, but the effect is nearly instantaneous as the material is forced to do work on the quantum level to sustain it's electron disorder along with cooling, for the opposite reason. This would require that the Gandolinium rotor studs be very close to the Curie point of 68º Fahrenheit in order to lose their magnetic attraction from the few degrees of heat rise from exposure to the PM field. The induction cooling effect from the environment would take much longer then the quantum cooling effect from demagnetization, and slow the rotor speed considerably.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: lumen on April 08, 2015, 02:14:08 AM
@lumen,

Heating the Gadolinium slices rapidly with the coil to become magnetic sounds as though it might work alright, but cooling enough to re-grow magnetic from the environment alone may not be rapid enough for the Gadolinium to attract the next rotor magnet.

There's a difference between the adiabatic heating and cooling effect caused by exposure to a permanent field and demagnetization, and heat transfer through induction. The adiabatic temperature change is only in the range of a few degrees in the Gadolinium from PM field exposure, but the effect is nearly instantaneous as the material is forced to do work on the quantum level to sustain it's electron disorder along with cooling, for the opposite reason. This would require that the Gandolinium rotor studs be very close to the Curie point of 68º Fahrenheit in order to lose their magnetic attraction from the few degrees of heat rise from exposure to the PM field. The induction cooling effect from the environment would take much longer then the quantum cooling effect from demagnetization, and slow the rotor speed considerably.

I was thinking to avoid the large mass of Gadolinium studs so the energy involved in changing the temperature would be small.
By adding a coil it appears additional work could be recovered since the Gadolinium could conduct the field into a coil like a core but then vanish to generate power using no additional energy over what would already be required to operate the motor itself in heat.
 
If indeed the temperature of the Gadolinium is raised by the magnetic field which pushes itself closer to becoming non-magnetic, then already exhibits an OU effect. I would have thought that the temperature would drop entering the magnetic field so more heat would be required to become non-magnetic.
 
I suppose that is a critical point! It does look like the effect is greatly enhanced by adding some Copper to the Gadolinium.
 
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 08, 2015, 03:11:14 AM
@lumen,

Heating the Gadolinium slices rapidly with the coil to become magnetic sounds as though it might work alright, but cooling enough to re-grow magnetic from the environment alone may not be rapid enough for the Gadolinium to attract the next rotor magnet.

There's a difference between the adiabatic heating and cooling effect caused by exposure to a permanent field and demagnetization, and heat transfer through induction. The adiabatic temperature change is only in the range of a few degrees in the Gadolinium from PM field exposure, but the effect is nearly instantaneous as the material is forced to do work on the quantum level to sustain it's electron disorder along with cooling, for the opposite reason. This would require that the Gandolinium rotor studs be very close to the Curie point of 68º Fahrenheit in order to lose their magnetic attraction from the few degrees of heat rise from exposure to the PM field. The induction cooling effect from the environment would take much longer then the quantum cooling effect from demagnetization, and slow the rotor speed considerably.

Why not have part of the rotor immersed in a pan of water?  Not very deep as it would add drag, but just enough to "shock cool' the thin slices as it turned.  The water could be at room temp. (68 degrees)  It would take that water a long time to heat up above that if the room were held at a constant temp.  If the pan were large, like a sheet cake pan, and made of aluminum, you have a heat sink that would probably continue to work until you need to add more water due to evaporation.

Just a thought.

Bill
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: MileHigh on April 08, 2015, 03:33:55 AM
This may be a fun experiment, but in the end somebody has to pay the piper for the heat power that is required to run this device.  If for every 100 watts of heat power I can get seven watts of electrical power from a generator output (as a hypothetical example) then it's not too exciting.

Supposing that I use a solar collector to heat up the water to power the generator.  The key question is supposing I replace the solar collector and instead use electricity-generating solar panels to produce electric power directly.  Which method is likely to produce more electrical power per unit of incoming solar power?

Perhaps a more fair comparison would be with a Stirling engine.  For a given amount of heat power, which system can give you more electrical output power from an attached generator, the Stirling engine or the Gadolinium Magnet Generator?  Assume that in both cases the temperature differential is optimized for each device but the available thermal power is the same.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 08, 2015, 04:24:21 AM
This may be a fun experiment, but in the end somebody has to pay the piper for the heat power that is required to run this device.  If for every 100 watts of heat power I can get seven watts of electrical power from a generator output (as a hypothetical example) then it's not too exciting.

Supposing that I use a solar collector to heat up the water to power the generator.  The key question is supposing I replace the solar collector and instead use electricity-generating solar panels to produce electric power directly.  Which method is likely to produce more electrical power per unit of incoming solar power?

Perhaps a more fair comparison would be with a Stirling engine.  For a given amount of heat power, which system can give you more electrical output power from an attached generator, the Stirling engine or the Gadolinium Magnet Generator?  Assume that in both cases the temperature differential is optimized for each device but the available thermal power is the same.

@MileHigh,

Suppose we capture the heat from the MCE and return it to the Gadolinium instead running the light bill up?
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: lumen on April 08, 2015, 04:42:48 AM
This may be a fun experiment, but in the end somebody has to pay the piper for the heat power that is required to run this device.  If for every 100 watts of heat power I can get seven watts of electrical power from a generator output (as a hypothetical example) then it's not too exciting.

Supposing that I use a solar collector to heat up the water to power the generator.  The key question is supposing I replace the solar collector and instead use electricity-generating solar panels to produce electric power directly.  Which method is likely to produce more electrical power per unit of incoming solar power?

Perhaps a more fair comparison would be with a Stirling engine.  For a given amount of heat power, which system can give you more electrical output power from an attached generator, the Stirling engine or the Gadolinium Magnet Generator?  Assume that in both cases the temperature differential is optimized for each device but the available thermal power is the same.

What if it could run at the difference between ambient air and ambient air with evaporative cooling, making both sides of the equation free!
Like drinking bird only possibly greater output!
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 08, 2015, 01:51:44 PM
This may be a fun experiment, but in the end somebody has to pay the piper for the heat power that is required to run this device.  If for every 100 watts of heat power I can get seven watts of electrical power from a generator output (as a hypothetical example) then it's not too exciting.

Supposing that I use a solar collector to heat up the water to power the generator.  The key question is supposing I replace the solar collector and instead use electricity-generating solar panels to produce electric power directly.  Which method is likely to produce more electrical power per unit of incoming solar power?

Perhaps a more fair comparison would be with a Stirling engine.  For a given amount of heat power, which system can give you more electrical output power from an attached generator, the Stirling engine or the Gadolinium Magnet Generator?  Assume that in both cases the temperature differential is optimized for each device but the available thermal power is the same.

Is not the piper in this case a bargain since it is the ambient temperature?  At least in this experiment you KNOW where the extra energy is coming from, yes?  And that makes it more legitimate compared to many experiments where energy is coming from some "magic" place that nobody can get to.

But yes, the Stirling comparison, or any other ambient harvesting strategy is a good vet for this. 

Lastly, it's a spinny thing with magnets!   I love them!
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: memoryman on April 08, 2015, 04:48:37 PM
This will be an interesting material to experiment with; don't expect anything more.
"Is not the piper in this case a bargain since it is the ambient temperature?  At least in this experiment you KNOW where the extra energy is coming from, yes?" indeed, but so do many other devices: Stirling, Nitinol etc. The question is: which one is the most economical? The devices initial cost vs it's output is crucial.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 08, 2015, 10:03:25 PM
Imagine a vertical rotor with gadolinium cylinder studs attached at 90º, in a "T" alignment. The permanent magnets would position at the base on either side of the cylinder ends. This leaves room over the two sides of the cylinder stud for water filled radiator collectors. These would be connected to radiator fins on top and just under the ends of the Gadolinium rotor studs by four tubes, two on each side, to automatically circulate hot water up and cool water down. Simply a standard MCE self loop.   
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 09, 2015, 12:08:20 AM
The Gadolinium rotor cylinders have to be kept very close to the Curie point of 68.09º to transition to the non magnetic state from the few degrees of temperature rise caused by exposure to the PM field. The magnet cools after leaving the field and should benefit from the radiated heat return coupled with ambient warming. Approaching the magnet field just a bit too cool would cause the rotor to cog.

The "Permanent Magnet" stators can be much thicker diameter axially magnetized neo cylinders. These kinds of magnets can be linked together to achieve sufficient Teslas.  A hair dryer might help get it started up while the radiator fluid heats up. Rotor RPM might be limited to around 600, but the torque would be tremendous. Precise temperature control is a critical factor. Spending money on gadolinium amounts to just another way of investing in precious metal. It should take 1/11th of a second for the Gadolinium rotor cylinders to transition to the non magnetic state inside the PM field.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 09, 2015, 01:45:27 AM
Wouldn't the system find its place on its own?  It's entering the field, warming as it passes thru, cooling and then exiting the field cooler than when it entered. This is key because if it does not behave this way then it's just another dead end.

But if it does work this way, then as has already been pointed out it is inherently OU.

Correct me if I'm wrong - exposing gadolinium to a magnetic field causes it to heat. That in itself is OU is it not?
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: lumen on April 09, 2015, 02:25:01 AM
Wouldn't the system find its place on its own?  It's entering the field, warming as it passes thru, cooling and then exiting the field cooler than when it entered. This is key because if it does not behave this way then it's just another dead end.

But if it does work this way, then as has already been pointed out it is inherently OU.

Correct me if I'm wrong - exposing gadolinium to a magnetic field causes it to heat. That in itself is OU is it not?

One might think that because the heating is already applied in the correct direction to the curie point. But then some heat will get lost and when it leaves the magnetic field it will drop to a colder temperature and attract back to the magnet.
Spacing thin sheets could reduce the mass and required heat to make the change while increasing the magnetic attraction.
Like a stack of washers spaced apart has greater attraction than when held together as a solid.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 09, 2015, 03:38:29 AM
Wouldn't the system find its place on its own?  It's entering the field, warming as it passes thru, cooling and then exiting the field cooler than when it entered. This is key because if it does not behave this way then it's just another dead end.

But if it does work this way, then as has already been pointed out it is inherently OU.

Correct me if I'm wrong - exposing gadolinium to a magnetic field causes it to heat. That in itself is OU is it not?

@ekimtoor1,

Quote from Wikipedia:

"Gadolinium's temperature increases when it enters certain magnetic fields. When it leaves the magnetic field, the temperature drops".

Adiabatic heating steals internal heat from the material that is usually replaced from the surrounding warmth. This factors out to zero by itself and is not overunity. When the magnetic field is removed, "the temperature drops as the domains absorb the thermal energy to perform their reorientation".
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 09, 2015, 03:52:14 AM

One might think that because the heating is already applied in the correct direction to the curie point. But then some heat will get lost and when it leaves the magnetic field it will drop to a colder temperature and attract back to the magnet.
Spacing thin sheets could reduce the mass and required heat to make the change while increasing the magnetic attraction.
Like a stack of washers spaced apart has greater attraction than when held together as a solid.

@lumen,

You're right about the cooled Gadolinium attracting back to the "Permanent Magnets". The radiator fins would have to extend forward to conserve the heat in the rotor stud until it passed away from the PM field attraction. A pair of light bulbs might be needed to help right at that point. This is precisely the point where Meir Alfasi is injecting the hot water stream in his video.

Perhaps you're right about reducing the mass and the washer effect! Good thinking.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 09, 2015, 05:03:25 AM
Two five layer cakes of thin soft iron sheets separated by electrical insulating tape for magnetic shielding on the exit side of the "Permanent Magnets" may be all it takes to get it to work.

"This multilayer system of soft iron sheets only need to be separated from each other by a nonconducting material,
like plastic or epoxy. This shield system is used by scientists when experiments are needed to be performed under
conditions unaffected by any magnetic field, including Earths magnetic field.

A five layer of separate soft iron sheets shields from exposure of Earths magnetic field to a degree of 1/1500".

It would also help to angle the cylinder magnets toward the entering rotor stud.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 09, 2015, 09:07:25 AM
Here's a video demonstrating the 100% effectiveness of a magnetic shield:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlMBZJEtwRQ

The zero input "Gadolinium Magnet Motor" would run best in a temperature controlled box. The heat released from the MCE would naturally rise to the top through convection and re-heat the rotor studs through induction there. The axel can run through a sealed bearing in the side of the box to generate power. Input would be limited to the container's temperature control system which would be small because it would be around room temperature. Pet stores stock these kind of low maintenance climate control systems. 

That finishes my conceptual design for this magnet generator.

Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 09, 2015, 10:46:10 AM
This kind of combination "Air Conditioning & Heating" system is costly, around $500. But very efficient to operate, just a few dollars a month.

"•Can be set to maintain normal temperature range of 61 to 88 degrees Fahrenheit under normal operating environments".

One can gauge the size of the zero input power plant this kind of unit could control from the picture on the bottem: It might be possible to link 10 or 12 large Gadolinium rotors up to run your house in conjunction with a Tesla household battery.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 10, 2015, 11:55:31 PM
This may be a fun experiment, but in the end somebody has to pay the piper for the heat power that is required to run this device.  If for every 100 watts of heat power I can get seven watts of electrical power from a generator output (as a hypothetical example) then it's not too exciting.

Supposing that I use a solar collector to heat up the water to power the generator.  The key question is supposing I replace the solar collector and instead use electricity-generating solar panels to produce electric power directly.  Which method is likely to produce more electrical power per unit of incoming solar power?

Perhaps a more fair comparison would be with a Stirling engine.  For a given amount of heat power, which system can give you more electrical output power from an attached generator, the Stirling engine or the Gadolinium Magnet Generator?  Assume that in both cases the temperature differential is optimized for each device but the available thermal power is the same.

The climate control mechanism of Gadolinium rotor must maintain a temperature of 68º Fahrenheit. Once this temperature seats into the sealed container, heat is reflected back inside and the power turns off.

The "Stiriling Motor" can't pull this kind of trick, once the power's shut off on the Sterling it knocks right out instantly. The power shuts off to the climate control system for a long time.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 14, 2015, 10:09:20 AM
Did anyone obtain their gladolinium here
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 14, 2015, 12:25:10 PM
Did anyone obtain their gladolinium here
I am expecting my samples today or tomorrow.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 14, 2015, 02:57:14 PM
I'm ignorant compared to even the most incredible poster here, so don't crucify me.  I'm an IT Manager that peruses these forums for fun while I'm waiting for mailboxes to migrate or some other hurry up and wait computer task.  I'm teachable and I'm learning a lot from all the good and bad stuff I read here.

I thought as a very simple POC GD project, I'd try a perpetulum.  Either two magnets on each side of the GD pendulum, or two GD pieces on each side of the magnet pendulum.  Anyone's input and guidance is welcomed.

The GD samples are coin shaped .999, 3.4 grams, about two inches in diameter.  I ordered two.

I'll have to start following the spot price of GD!

Edit:  Just looked it up and there is no spot price on rare earths.  Looking at Molycorp MCP, as a rare earth investment example, rare earths are really bottomed out right now, maybe with more bottom to come.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 14, 2015, 03:27:08 PM
Exellent @ekim don't panic I'm a physicist.I'm going to help you and me make another big mark in history(the second time for me)I've got the knowledge,you've got the gadolinum.do you have an infrared-sensitive camera available ekim
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 14, 2015, 03:37:24 PM
Exellent @ekim don't panic I'm a physicist.I'm going to help you and me make another big mark in history(the second time for me)I've got the knowledge,you've got the gadolinum.do you have an infrared-sensitive camera available ekim

Would this work?   

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Seek-Thermal-Imaging-Camera-for-iPhone-with-Lightning-connector-LW-AAA-/231530661371?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35e84d85fb
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 14, 2015, 04:15:58 PM
If it can view heat in complete darkness it will work so I think that one is ok yes.if you have a friend that can lend you one it'l workout cheaper though.the idea is to shove one of those coins against a neo and take a thermophoto of it.if we detect a clear heat disparity on that coin we violate kelvin's disgusting statement brother plus the user theoria-apophasis gets catapulted to high-status as it will support his oscillation theory(magnetic vortex thread).two birds with one stone
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 14, 2015, 05:00:59 PM
Is this the statement?  (see - I told you I was ignorant...)

"It is impossible, by means of inanimate material agency, to derive mechanical effect from any portion of matter by cooling it below the temperature of the coldest of the surrounding objects"

Did Kelvin know about Gadolinium?
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 14, 2015, 05:11:55 PM
That's the statement yes. disgrace to the human race.forget about the camera for now ekim there's hundreds of setups I have in mind.do you possess a votmeter/ammeter that can measure down to a few microamps/millivolts
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 14, 2015, 05:14:13 PM
Kelvin didn't care about gadolinium
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 14, 2015, 05:27:35 PM
That's the statement yes. disgrace to the human race.forget about the camera for now ekim there's hundreds of setups I have in mind.do you possess a votmeter/ammeter that can measure down to a few microamps/millivolts

Yes, pretty sure.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 14, 2015, 06:48:59 PM
Ok.the first series of experiments will be to try detect a direct thermoelectric voltage at room temperature.please let me know the moment the coins arrive in your hands ekim.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 14, 2015, 08:59:06 PM
Here they are.  $50 meter from Home Depot.  Two Gadolinium coins .999 pure, 3.4 grams, slightly smaller than a Nickle in diameter, not quite as thick. They are in airtight plastic coin cases just like you'd use for currency coins. My first experiment was to suspend the coin in the case and hang a few noes from it.  About an hour later they had not fell away. So probably means it must be in direct contact, ??

Anyway on with the show, the players are all here I think!
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 14, 2015, 09:06:55 PM
Everything is here. $50 meter from Home Depot, can measure microvolts.  Two Gadolinium coins .999 pure, 3.4 grams, slightly smaller than a nickle in diameter, not quite as thick. They are in airtight plastic coin cases just like you'd use for currency coins. My first experiment was to suspend the coin in the case and hang a few neos from it.  About an hour later they had not fell away. So probably means it must be in direct contact??

Anyway on with the show, the players are all here I think!
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 14, 2015, 09:10:08 PM
Ok sorry about the pic. I have apparently fallen into the same trap as others have. Was sending from my iPhone and that's the default result. Can one delete the attachment once posted?  Sorry if the question is redundant...
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 14, 2015, 09:28:40 PM
Admin - could you just delete the pics and the first message?
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 14, 2015, 09:30:22 PM
Wow that was quick.ok sir please rip a coin out the packet and test its ohms conductivity with that meter.let's see how well gadi conducts over that two inches.does that meter have resistance measurement capability?
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 14, 2015, 09:31:00 PM
I have six 1/4 inch by 1 inch neos hanging from one of the GD naked coins for some time now and they are not falling off.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 14, 2015, 09:33:55 PM
' My first experiment was to
suspend the coin in the case and hang a few noes
from it.  About an hour later they had not fell away.
So probably means it must be in direct contact, ??'

These stick to a magnet? What's the temperature in your city at moment?
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 14, 2015, 09:35:56 PM
Ambient temp is about 70
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 14, 2015, 09:41:34 PM
70 faranheit= 21celcius.gadi's transition is 16 celcius.maybe you've got the para-magnetic properties going there.put in some warm water to warmup and chek if it still does this
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 14, 2015, 09:49:44 PM
Or bring the whole setup near the kitchen toaster,oven or lounge heater and chek if it still does this..
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 14, 2015, 09:52:56 PM
So measure ohms across the face of the coin?
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 14, 2015, 09:57:15 PM
Hold on.did you check if the magnets still hold near the oven
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 14, 2015, 09:57:45 PM
This may be important
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 14, 2015, 10:03:49 PM
From wiki:'Gadolinium is ferromagnetic at temperatures below
20 °C (68 °F) and is strongly paramagnetic above
this temperature.'

Notice 'strongly paramagnetic'
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 14, 2015, 10:17:48 PM
Does that mean the curie point is in a tiny little window between ferromagnetic and paramagnetic?
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 14, 2015, 10:26:44 PM
I guess it must be so strongly paramagnetic that it can hold neos above room temp? Those neos must be damn powerful bro.that or there is some window yes. Chek its conductivity out on meter
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 14, 2015, 10:28:10 PM
I hope it is really gadi and not sumtin else that came in the mail
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 14, 2015, 10:32:21 PM
I think they are N42s. When I place probes on the face of the coin at opposite sides, I can make the reading go to 0 by pressing quite hard with the probes. If I touch the probes in the same way but as lightly as possible without breaking the contact the meter jumps all over hell.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 14, 2015, 10:34:28 PM
I do remember reading that GD is also pressure sensitive.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 14, 2015, 10:37:24 PM
I hope it is really gadi and not sumtin else that came in the mail

Thinking the same thing. Those suspended neos are still suspended.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 14, 2015, 10:43:04 PM
Ok that means it conducts well like most metals.the reason for need for pressure on probes is because of thick oxide layer which insulates (I'm getting a hardon for the thermionic emission possibilities here).now you need to clamp a crock-clip onto one edge of the coin and stick the other crock-clip on any side of the neo and allow the gadi to contact the neo and chek if you get any microvoltas or microamperes.we want to see if the static magnetic field is going to effect the temperature at the contact point gadi/neo
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 14, 2015, 10:44:19 PM
'Thinking the same thing. Those suspended neos are
still suspended.'

You've got to take it near the oven to see if they drop
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 14, 2015, 10:52:06 PM
Ok! Blasted one hanging 1/4 inch by 2 inch neo with a hair dryer.  It weakened the effect considerably but was still attracted.

Drop back to weaker magnets?  I had that video in mind and expected similar results. I do remember that they were using a dark magnet maybe not neo?
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 14, 2015, 10:56:08 PM
That neo is a cylinder by the way...
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 14, 2015, 10:59:32 PM
If it weakened then its real mcoy I think.your city temp is very close to the ferro point so I think your room temp is perfect for experimentos.don't worry about strengths right now let's chek if it can cause changes in temperature at a contact point by reading volts
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 14, 2015, 11:02:46 PM
--NG--
.         .
.         .
.         .
    V

This is the setup that's worth a try.the n is the neo.the g is the gadi.the v is the v-meter(microvolts set).dots are two wires probes
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 14, 2015, 11:14:17 PM
A iron crock-clip on one side the gadi coin can be pulled into place by the neo field going thru coin on other side.contacts should press nice like this
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 14, 2015, 11:44:43 PM
Yes that works well. Takes my hands out of it. Meter says 0.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 14, 2015, 11:56:13 PM
I don't think this meter has the resolution of microvolts/milliamps.  Thought I grabbed the right one. "thought" being the key word.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 15, 2015, 12:02:15 AM
Mmm.ok so now let's try and attatch a single strand cotton thread to a coin and see if we can get it to permanently wobble-swing over a single neo pole like this 

                  .
                  .
                  .
              >  .
                  .
                  G
                  N

You've got to put a weight on the top of thread to keep inplace and do this whole setup away from wind/draughfts.all windows closed.if you get the slightest wobble permanent then we win
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 15, 2015, 02:29:44 AM
I'm setting up for this. Also, with an ordinary ferrite doughnut magnet, poles on faces I am easily able to produce the effect.  At room temp the ferrite will pick it up. A quick shot from the hairdryer makes it fall off.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 15, 2015, 03:40:02 AM
I'm setting up for this. Also, with an ordinary ferrite doughnut magnet, poles on faces I am easily able to produce the effect.  At room temp the ferrite will pick it up. A quick shot from the hairdryer makes it fall off.

@ekimtoor1,

Very exciting news about the hairdryer producing the fall off effect. Good luck!
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 15, 2015, 03:55:30 AM
Once again I apologize for pic format. I'll figure out how to get my iPhone to downsize. Prolly need a different app.  Here is the GD coin suspended over a neo. It swung substantially for a while but is winding down and I would say it's gonna go still 
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 15, 2015, 08:54:46 AM
Chek very closely.the slightest tiniest wobble will indicate good things.if its deadstill then its a no-no
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 15, 2015, 09:00:01 AM
Move the coin further down or further up swing btween 2 poles.north-south/ north-north
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 15, 2015, 09:01:21 AM
The tiniest vibration must be noted
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 15, 2015, 01:34:34 PM
I do have a proper meter now. 

I will have to move this down into my music studio which has a concrete floor.  When I walk across the room where this is set up presently,
just my movement alone will cause it to start slowly twisting back and forth on the thread.  But as it is hung right now,
it always appears to come to stillness.  I will also put it under glass since it is also moved by even the slightest little swirl in the air around it.

I'll also set it up so I can adjust the position of the magnet and the coin.  I'll give it a go tonight.

So - place the cylinder magnet on it's side to allow the coin to be dropped into position between the poles?
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 15, 2015, 05:34:15 PM
If very small movements or vibrations are important, then I could use this new tool from MIT to do a Eulerian analysis of a video:

http://lambda.qrilab.com/site/

it's free!
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 15, 2015, 08:47:00 PM
That computer programme seems useful yes.I think its best to do the experiment under a belljar of sorts yes to avoid wind.I used to do this kind of experiment in my cupboard shelf and it worked pretty well as there was no movement detectable by the human eye when at equilibrium.if you can get it to move a mere millimeter continuous then its worthwhile.you can also attatch a ruler or stick to the coin and make it swing sideways past the neo like a grandpa clock of sorts.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 15, 2015, 08:58:25 PM
I wonder if we'l be able to smot a coin mmm
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 15, 2015, 09:27:31 PM
I wonder if we'l be able to smot a coin mmm

I thought of that and even suggested GD to the folks on the recent SMOT thread. 
I looked everywhere for a GD sphere.  Not available.  Maybe a manufacturing problem.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: TinselKoala on April 15, 2015, 09:58:29 PM
Once again I apologize for pic format. I'll figure out how to get my iPhone to downsize. Prolly need a different app.  Here is the GD coin suspended over a neo. It swung substantially for a while but is winding down and I would say it's gonna go still

Uhh... you can see now I hope why pix should not be wider than 1024 pixels....
You can download the picture from your iPhone to your computer and resize it using any number of image editing programs. I use "gimp", which is free and powerful (essentially equivalent to Adobe Photoshop) and multi-platform, others may use different programs.
It's rare to need to show a photo at such large size. If you have some detail that needs careful examination you can crop it out of the larger photo and show it at full resolution, just not so wide that it makes comments go off the screen!
800 pixels wide is enough for ordinary purposes; the usual "limit" is 1024 pixels wide before strange things start happening.

As far as the actual experiment goes, you have to be very careful about the suspension fiber itself. Humidity changes can make it twist or untwist, changes in the attraction force, affecting the tension on the fiber, can make it twist or untwist, etc. Many people have been fooled by the twist characteristics of suspension fibers in torsion pendulums (which is essentially what your setup is.)

Tesla (as usual) patented a bunch of different thermomagnetic motor designs that depended on a metal being driven back and forth around its Curie point by an external heat source. I don't think he was aware of gadolinium's low Curie point; he mostly used pure Nickel in his motors. But they are worth taking a look at, the patent is easy enough to find and contains a dozen or more different design drawings. May give you some ideas.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: TinselKoala on April 15, 2015, 10:01:36 PM
I thought of that and even suggested GD to the folks on the recent SMOT thread. 
I looked everywhere for a GD sphere.  Not available.  Maybe a manufacturing problem.
Yeah, like maybe its melting point of 1312 C makes it difficult to cast in a sinker-mold or by lost-wax methods?
You could probably get someone to machine a sphere out of a commercial billet or barstock, though.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 16, 2015, 12:04:41 AM
Quote from: ekimtoor1 on Today at 09:27:31 PM ---
I thought of that and even suggested GD to the folks
on the recent SMOT thread.
I looked everywhere for a GD sphere.  Not available.
Maybe a manufacturing problem'

make it lye flat on a slide and hold magnets close on each side it should do the trick.hope you have bar magnets for this.I've got this feeling that gadi will do much better than iron.compare distances with a nickel coin of similar size
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 16, 2015, 01:36:41 AM
@ekimtoor1,

                  Profit's is right about the dipole, both N and S poles, to achieve MCE in the Gadolinium. The magnetic strength required is 5 Teslas divided between the two magnets.That's the equivalent of 50,000 Gauss. Check the posted ratings.The magnets are rated in Gauss. All you need to do is couple them up additively to get the minimum required strength if they're too weak. 

Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 16, 2015, 04:06:12 AM
I will study that up. What is that in neos?

I set that pendulum experiment up and am uploading a video now.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 17, 2015, 01:45:56 AM
I will study that up. What is that in neos?

I set that pendulum experiment up and am uploading a video now.

Dimensions: 3/16" dia. x 1" thick
Tolerances: ±0.004" x ±0.004"
Material: NdFeB, Grade N42
Plating/Coating: Ni-Cu-Ni (nickel)
Magnetization Direction: Axial (Poles on Flat Ends)
Weight: 0.120 oz. (3.39 g)
Pull Force, Case 1: 2.23 lbs
Pull Force, Case 2: 2.23 lbs
Surface Field: 6571 Gauss
Max Operating Temp: 176ºF (80ºC)
Brmax: 13,200 Gauss
BHmax: 42 MGOe
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 17, 2015, 09:20:24 AM
Synchro'Profit's is right about the dipole, both N
and S poles, to achieve MCE in the Gadolinium. The
magnetic strength required is 5 Teslas divided
between the two magnets'

One pole also gives mce but seperate stage hot/cold as opposed to together hot/cold.any strength magnet will give this effect to various degrees.stronger gauss more effect.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 17, 2015, 05:42:36 PM
What is MCE?
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 17, 2015, 08:29:23 PM
What is MCE?

@ekimtoor1

Magnetocaloriceffect:

"An increase or decrease of the temperature of a thermally isolated magnetic substance accompanying an increase or decrease in the intensity of a magnetic field".











Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 17, 2015, 10:22:39 PM
What's happening ekim what's the latest news. Did you attempt the smot
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on April 18, 2015, 05:54:07 PM
Hi Ekimtoor1,

That Eulerian video magnification program is really cool.

If you go to this site:
http://people.csail.mit.edu/mrub/evm/#code

You can get the code in matlab and an executable to run offline. The code is really neat how it works, but won't go off topic with coding. :)

Still waiting for the order of gadolinium, hopefully by next week. I have a bunch of ideas to test. One is using infrared to heat the metal. Could surround it with a ring of 600-800nm leds and pulse it when it gets attracted to the magnet to see if it's enough to heat the material. Could also use a salt bottom to wick heat away. If the material is to dense for that then I have a couple of other ideas.

Keep experimenting.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 18, 2015, 09:16:11 PM
Hi Ekimtoor1,

That Eulerian video magnification program is really cool.

If you go to this site:
http://people.csail.mit.edu/mrub/evm/#code

You can get the code in matlab and an executable to run offline. The code is really neat how it works, but won't go off topic with coding. :)

Still waiting for the order of gadolinium, hopefully by next week. I have a bunch of ideas to test. One is using infrared to heat the metal. Could surround it with a ring of 600-800nm leds and pulse it when it gets attracted to the magnet to see if it's enough to heat the material. Could also use a salt bottom to wick heat away. If the material is to dense for that then I have a couple of other ideas.

Keep experimenting.

@DreamThinkBuild,

The maximum heating from magnetic exposure takes place right at the Currie point of 68º. The Gadolinium should be attracted to the magnets, then heat up instantaneously and grow non magnetic on it's own with no additional heat.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 18, 2015, 09:25:09 PM
Somebody has GOT to do the smot with this stuff someday.preferably at around 16-22 degree celcius room temp
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 18, 2015, 09:37:08 PM
@dreamthinkbuild what shape or form is your gadi going to be if I may ask
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 19, 2015, 02:01:16 PM
I hung a coin as a pendulum suspended in the middle of 8 ferrite ring magnets. There was just enough attraction that if the pendulum swung off center any more than a few mm it would be pulled to the magnet.  Before I would say there was anything happening, I'd redo with something other than thread to eliminate the thread itself doing the twisting. And I'd put the whole thing in a jar to eliminate Air currents.
 
It looks like something is happening, the coin seems to start twisting a little from a dead stop. But I doubt it has anything to do with GD.  So I'm reluctant to post the video.

When using neos with the GD sample I have which is marked .999, the GD will not fall of at all never no matter what temp. I am able to reproduce the effect we are chasing with ferrite magnets. If the ambient temp is 67F the ferrite rings will just lift the 3.4gm GD coin. I then gently flow a lil hot air from a hairdryer and the GD will drop off. I cannot make this happen with a neo magnet.

I noticed GD is attracted to a neo with a strength similar to steel attracted to the ferrite magnet. So the attraction of GD to the ferrite rings I have is quite weak.

As profitis mentioned, the GD does not remain non-magnetic after reaching the curie point. It becomes diamagnetic sometime after the curie effect. Correct if I'm wrong please.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 19, 2015, 04:03:00 PM
Yes gadi is very strongly paramagnetic above its curiepoint.strong magnets will still have strong attraction above the curie as we hardly notice the transition.if you attatch the coin to a school-ruler and swing that sideways through rows of neo's you may be able to see some smot effect ekim.the rigidity of the ruler will avoid sidewayswing.that small movement that you saw begin after dead-stillness of the coin is interesting and should be investigated further because it might have something to do with apophasis-oscillation.try this in other setups including hovvering closely over a single magnet pole.make the swing deadstill with your fingers and release.do this close to the mag and far from the mag (adjust heights)
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: TinselKoala on April 19, 2015, 05:58:39 PM
I hung a coin as a pendulum suspended in the middle of 8 ferrite ring magnets. There was just enough attraction that if the pendulum swung off center any more than a few mm it would be pulled to the magnet.  Before I would say there was anything happening, I'd redo with something other than thread to eliminate the thread itself doing the twisting. And I'd put the whole thing in a jar to eliminate Air currents.
 
It looks like something is happening, the coin seems to start twisting a little from a dead stop. But I doubt it has anything to do with GD.  So I'm reluctant to post the video.

When using neos with the GD sample I have which is marked .999, the GD will not fall of at all never no matter what temp. I am able to reproduce the effect we are chasing with ferrite magnets. If the ambient temp is 67F the ferrite rings will just lift the 3.4gm GD coin. I then gently flow a lil hot air from a hairdryer and the GD will drop off. I cannot make this happen with a neo magnet.

I noticed GD is attracted to a neo with a strength similar to steel attracted to the ferrite magnet. So the attraction of GD to the ferrite rings I have is quite weak.

As profitis mentioned, the GD does not remain non-magnetic after reaching the curie point. It becomes diamagnetic sometime after the curie effect. Correct if I'm wrong please.
Be sure to set up a "control experiment" at the same time. As you note, an observed twisting may or may not be due to the effect on specifically GD that is being examined, or specifically magnetism, etc. So you should set up an identical setup but with a suspended weight of something other than GD that has about the same density and shape (so size and weight and shape match as closely as possible to the GD setup). Does it twist under the same conditions as when the GD is observed to twist? If so then the effect is due to some other cause... which you should also try to control for, as you narrow down to the actual cause of the observed twisting.

It was the failure of the original claimant to do the proper control experiments that caused him to believe in "magnet perpetual motion" when he saw hard-drive magnets, suspended from a thread, twist always in the same direction. Unfortunately the original claim video by "ED" has been taken down, since he eventually acknowledged that my debunking experiments showed the true cause of the twisting. I don't know if he ever actually paid up the thousand dollars that he offered to any proven debunk; in the comments to my videos he agreed to do so by donating to his local animal shelter or spay-neuter program but I don't know if he did or not.
Here's the first of about 5 videos where I examine the claim and perform the _correct control experiments_ to show that the twist has nothing to do with magnetism and where I finally demonstrate its true cause:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehva-GfWdXA
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: nestor89 on April 19, 2015, 07:00:19 PM
The temperature only has to rise a tiny amount for the cube to unfasten and freewheel. All the rotor needs is a correctly spaced cooler Gadolinium cube in front of it to push the demagnetized cube free of the field and voilà! Perpetual motion.

No. Even in paramagnetic state is is still be drawn by a permanent magnet. If the Curie temperature is reached the cube will not be unfasten. Ferromagnetism is stronger as paramagnetism but but the paramagnetism of gd is quite strong. I heated up gd (99,99 % pure)  up to 60 degrees C and it was still attacted by a neodym magnet. Reaching the Curie temperature of Gd does not mean that there is no magetic attraction at all any more.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: nestor89 on April 19, 2015, 07:04:28 PM
Interesting Magnet Generator:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VonUp5Wicwk

I think that the idea might work. However I am not sure whether the whell in the video is accelarted by the water flow (like a water mill).
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: nestor89 on April 19, 2015, 07:06:11 PM
The Gadolinium rotor block would be drawn into the permanent magnet field at precisely 68º Fahrenheit by the magnetic attraction. This force would power the rotor. Initially, the block would heat up, and traveling at just the right speed, the preliminary rise in temperature might be sufficient enough to briefly push it just above the Currie point to turn the block non-magnetic

Paramagnetic <> non-magnetic
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 19, 2015, 08:22:21 PM
Nestor'Ferromagnetism is stronger as paramagnetism but but the paramagnetism of gd is quite strong.'

If you use a weaker magnet then its not a problem.it will drop the gadi
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 19, 2015, 08:27:43 PM
Tinselkoala'Be sure to set up a "control experiment" at the same time'

He can just use a nickel coin of similar size and weight.I got these things to become dead-still and I mean dead-still in my cupboard in my room using short-string cotton with nickel coins
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 19, 2015, 09:33:46 PM
@tinselkoala. Yes I did just that I also hung a steel washer about the Sam weight and suspended it within enough ring mags to get approximately the same magnetic setup as with the GD. I also hung a small strip of paper. The washer stayed dead steady but I tied it up a little differently sio I still suspect the thread. The paper shows little movement. I set this up turned on the camera and left the room for about 30 minutes after turning off all my fans and the hvac.

Perhaps I'll post that video and let you all decide what it shows.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: mscoffman on April 19, 2015, 09:51:59 PM
I can verify that the null case of a small horseshoe magnet and a ferrous component becomes quietus
while the horseshoe magnet suspends itself at 45deg. on a support string.  It's Lentz Law that damps
out all motion of the magnet. No energy equals no motion.

..S..MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.@ms off an
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 19, 2015, 10:42:03 PM
@mscoffman yes I observed the same with steel and GD suspended at an angle .
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on April 20, 2015, 05:30:24 PM
No. Even in paramagnetic state is is still be drawn by a permanent magnet. If the Curie temperature is reached the cube will not be unfasten. Ferromagnetism is stronger as paramagnetism but but the paramagnetism of gd is quite strong. I heated up gd (99,99 % pure)  up to 60 degrees C and it was still attacted by a neodym magnet. Reaching the Curie temperature of Gd does not mean that there is no magetic attraction at all any more.

It sounds like you're dealing with a gadolinium alloy.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 20, 2015, 05:45:12 PM
It sounds like you're dealing with a gadolinium alloy.

My sample says 99.999 pure and it absolutely will not detach from a neo under any temp (up to neo's curie).  I spent some time reading up on GD more carefully this morning and I don't think it ever becomes non-magnetic.  It is either ferromagnetic or extremely paramagnetic with the Curie point marking the end of ferromagnetism and the beginning of extreme paramegnetism.  GD is so paramagnetic above 68F that I cannot tell the difference between the two states.

So before any more can be done here, we must answer this question:

1. Is there in fact a point of non-magnetism (which would actually be extremely weak paramagnetism since everything is either ferro or para) when GD passes from ferromagnetic to paramagnetic?

2. If so, how long does GD remain non-magnetic?
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 20, 2015, 06:05:21 PM
QuoteEkim'1. Is there in fact a point of non-magnetism (which would actually be extremely weak paramagnetism since everything is either ferro or para) when GD passes from ferromagnetic to paramagnetic?

Yes.use a weak magnet to see it

QuoteEkim'2. If so, how long does GD remain non-magnetic?

Permanent above its curie
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 20, 2015, 06:14:35 PM
"Yes.use a weak magnet to see it"

The fact that you can see it with a weak magnet could also mean the paramagnetic state of GD is weaker than it's ferromagnetic state, therefore it falls off the weak magnet, but is in fact still paramagnetic and will be attracted to a neo.  This is what I think is happening.


"Permanent above its curie"

This is not true according to everything I have read.  It becomes paramagnetic, not non-magnetic.


Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 20, 2015, 06:28:42 PM
'The fact that you can see it with a weak magnet could also mean the paramagnetic state of GD is weaker than it's ferromagnetic state, therefore it falls off the weak magnet, but is in fact still paramagnetic and will be attracted to a neo.  This is what I think is happening.'

Yes precisely.BUT ignore this for swing-experiments because there still is a giagantic temperature change in the gadi regardless of the neo.


'This is not true according to everything I have read.  It becomes paramagnetic, not non-magnetic.'

Yes but you won't get it to fall off a neo in direct contact.increase the distance from the neo by a seperator-block of wood and then it will fall off the neo
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 20, 2015, 06:36:06 PM
I need a laser thermometer so I can see the GD changing temp in response to a magnetic field.

Spacing the neo would have the same effect as a weaker magnet.
I have not observed any state of non-magnetism in GD so far.
If there is one, it's miniscule and will be very hard to exploit.
I think GD is either ferromagnetic or paramagnetic at all times.

I'm starting to be suspicious of that video with the GD rotor.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 20, 2015, 06:55:24 PM
'I'm starting to be suspicious of that video with the GD rotor.'

Lol nooo no sir.let's trust the encyclopedias and meantime I'm going to figure out a easy chemical test that you can do to see if that is really gadolinium that arrived in the post.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 20, 2015, 11:29:28 PM
Questions :

If GD is ferromagnetic below 68F, can it actually become a magnet with poles?

Is it still a magnet with poles after it goes over its Curie and then returns below 68F?


Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: nestor89 on April 21, 2015, 06:34:06 PM
It sounds like you're dealing with a gadolinium alloy.
No it is pure 99,99 % certified probe. Above 16 degrees C it is just paramagnetic and therefore still attracted a mangnet.
It is a gross misunderstanding to assume that gd is nonmagnetic above Curie temp.

Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: nestor89 on April 21, 2015, 06:50:23 PM
My sample says 99.999 pure and it absolutely will not detach from a neo under any temp (up to neo's curie).  I spent some time reading up on GD more carefully this morning and I don't think it ever becomes non-magnetic.  It is either ferromagnetic or extremely paramagnetic with the Curie point marking the end of ferromagnetism and the beginning of extreme paramegnetism.  GD is so paramagnetic above 68F that I cannot tell the difference between the two states.

So before any more can be done here, we must answer this question:

1. Is there in fact a point of non-magnetism (which would actually be extremely weak paramagnetism since everything is either ferro or para) when GD passes from ferromagnetic to paramagnetic?

2. If so, how long does GD remain non-magnetic?

ferromagnetism:  magetized probe remains magnetic even if magnetic field which magnetized probe is put away. some of elementary magnets stay ordered

paramagentism: as soon as magnetic field is put away all elementary magnets disorder themselves again

in both states probe is attracted by permanent magnet or electro magnet applying a magnetic field

in paramagnetic state gd drops not at curie temperature but more or less above curie temperature. depending on the force of the magnetic field. so if you use weak magnet gd drops near curie temp e.g. 26 degrees C. If you iuse strong neodym magnet it may not drop at 60 degrees C. The higher the temperature the more are the elementary  magnets shaken. If force of temperature + gravetity are stronger as applied magnetic field gd drops.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: nestor89 on April 21, 2015, 06:53:17 PM
QuoteEkim'1. Is there in fact a point of non-magnetism (which would actually be extremely weak paramagnetism since everything is either ferro or para) when GD passes from ferromagnetic to paramagnetic?

Yes.use a weak magnet to see it

QuoteEkim'2. If so, how long does GD remain non-magnetic?

Permanent above its curie

no that is not precise. gd is non magnetic as long as no external magentic field is applied which aligns the elementary magnets of the probe
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: nestor89 on April 21, 2015, 06:56:52 PM
I need a laser thermometer so I can see the GD changing temp in response to a magnetic field.

Spacing the neo would have the same effect as a weaker magnet.
I have not observed any state of non-magnetism in GD so far.
If there is one, it's miniscule and will be very hard to exploit.
I think GD is either ferromagnetic or paramagnetic at all times.

I'm starting to be suspicious of that video with the GD rotor.

i am suspicious too. the wheel may be turned by the water flow like in a water mill.

however i still not rule out that such motor making use of temp differences may work

acctually we are working on such motor. however the temp difference needs to be high in our set up in order to turn a wheel

you may harvest energy if there is a temp difference which can be used however that is no pepetuum mobile
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: nestor89 on April 21, 2015, 07:03:33 PM
Questions :

If GD is ferromagnetic below 68F, can it actually become a magnet with poles?

Is it still a magnet with poles after it goes over its Curie and then returns below 68F?

gd can be magnetized below curie temp as it is ferromagnetic below curie temp. above curie temp magetization disappears because elementary magnets disorder themselves at curie temp. however that does mot mean that gd is non magnetic above curie temp. above curie temp it is still attracted by magnet.

magnetization does not reappear  without cause if gd returns below curie temp. that would be magic

however if you apply again a magnetic field you may magnetize gd again below curie temp

Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 21, 2015, 08:19:24 PM
@nestor89 - what I meant to ask is - can GD become a permanent magnet below its curie point?
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 21, 2015, 08:37:17 PM
' what I meant to ask is - can GD become
a permanent magnet below its curie point?'

Yes same as iron.but not by melting it ofcourse
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 21, 2015, 08:43:13 PM
@ekim I think its time to do electrical experiments with those coins.wrap it in a coil of wire and pulse some current through it(by touching the battery-pole with the wire briefly) and check if you witness with your eyes a BACKSPIKE SPARK.best to do this in dark
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 21, 2015, 08:44:14 PM
@profitis - thanks as always for your reply. Would the GD return to a perm mag after rising above its curie?
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 21, 2015, 08:45:10 PM
COMPARE BACKSPIKE SPARK SIZE with nickel coins spark size
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 21, 2015, 08:46:50 PM
'Would the
GD return to a perm mag after rising above its curie?'

No ways no
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 21, 2015, 08:47:30 PM
@profitis - yep sure thing. Can you give me some guidance?  Like wire size, wind around the circumference or the diameter, etc. ?
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 21, 2015, 08:57:57 PM
Use wire obtained from a toy motor ekim.that way it will be lots of turns AND it will be laminated.burn the two tip-ends of the wire with a cigarette lighter briefly to de-laminate the ends for contact to battery poles.try a cellfone battery,try a 1.5 torch battery,try a cellfone charger plugged in wall with phone-pinplug cut off.just slip the gadi coin out of the coil and shove in a equal size nickel coin to test if you get a spark for the comparrison test.wrap wire flat-tight around those coins so that its almost pancake-like.you can also try turning wire around a empty plastic or cardboard shell so that the coin can simply slide in and out
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 21, 2015, 09:00:57 PM
Use lots and lots of turns of wire
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 21, 2015, 09:01:56 PM
Do this on a day that is around 16-22 celcius temp especially
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 21, 2015, 09:07:10 PM
To test if you have real gadolinium,shove the edge of coin into some pool acid.it should fizzle instantly lots bubbles.do this only for a few seconds then rinse,dry
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 21, 2015, 10:20:09 PM
I will do all those things and report back along the way.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 21, 2015, 10:43:08 PM
Excellento
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: nestor89 on April 21, 2015, 11:21:54 PM
@nestor89 - what I meant to ask is - can GD become a permanent magnet below its curie point?
yes
magnatized means turned into permanent magnet
ferromagnetic elements may be turned into permanent magnets below curie temp

reason elementary magnets remain aligned in ferromagnetic state unntil heated up or shooked

in paramagnetic state elementary magnets do not remain alinged but disorder as soon as external magnetic field is put away
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: nestor89 on April 21, 2015, 11:29:10 PM
@profitis - thanks as always for your reply. Would the GD return to a perm mag after rising above its curie?

no above ct the alignment of the elementary magnets disappear
if you cool down the probe the alignment will not come back ( unless magnetic field is applied again)
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: mscoffman on April 22, 2015, 03:45:26 AM
One thing I think would be worthwhile is to experiment around attaching a 10 mm
cube of gadolinium to the lower boiler of the "dipping bird".  I would attach it on the
outside of the glass, first to see if one can see any changes to bird behavior. On an
individual gd cube basis the energies seem similar.  The weight of the cube could be
counter balanced by adding lead solder to the top part of the bird.  One thing I would do
is to build an "alcohol swamp" inside a double walled container to see if one can shut down
the dipping bird by equalizing pressure and temperatures of its atmospheric contents.
This may come in handy in the future.

Once one has exhausted behavioral studies it may be time to go internal with
the cube so it is in direct contact with the birds refrigerant. I have come up with an
easy way to do this. Etch the circular glass dome with fluoric acid by careful timing
then stop the etch process, then carefully break the thin glass shell away. Fix the cube
in another piece of partial test-tube and attach the glass piece with an appropriate adhesive.
While the pieces are apart give the bird a "transfusion" of methyl chloride refrigerant.
The dipping bird is essentially a thermometer so interesting things should be seen to
happen if the magnets don't drag on the birds body.

If the bird now has become difficult to stop in its alcohol swamp it may be time to
see if companies would like to build a newer version of the dipping bird. The dipping
bird with extended functionality.   :)

..S..MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 22, 2015, 06:49:25 AM
One thing I think would be worthwhile is to experiment around attaching a 10 mm
cube of gadolinium to the lower boiler of the "dipping bird".  I would attach it on the
outside of the glass, first to see if one can see any changes to bird behavior. On an
individual gd cube basis the energies seem similar.  The weight of the cube could be
counter balanced by adding lead solder to the top part of the bird.  One thing I would do
is to build an "alcohol swamp" inside a double walled container to see if one can shut down
the dipping bird by equalizing pressure and temperatures of its atmospheric contents.
This may come in handy in the future.

Once one has exhausted behavioral studies it may be time to go internal with
the cube so it is in direct contact with the birds refrigerant. I have come up with an
easy way to do this. Etch the circular glass dome with fluoric acid by careful timing
then stop the etch process, then carefully break the thin glass shell away. Fix the cube
in another piece of partial test-tube and attach the glass piece with an appropriate adhesive.
While the pieces are apart give the bird a "transfusion" of methyl chloride refrigerant.
The dipping bird is essentially a thermometer so interesting things should be seen to
happen if the magnets don't drag on the birds body.

If the bird now has become difficult to stop in its alcohol swamp it may be time to
see if companies would like to build a newer version of the dipping bird. The dipping
bird with extended functionality.   :)

..S..MarkSCoffman

Not a bad idea but, beware...there is a lot of stress in that thin glass used in those birds.  The one I used in my video using the bird's movement to charge a supercap exploded one day when I accidentally bumped into my table and the bird fell over on its side.  There were glass fragments everywhere and none larger than a cornflake.  It was a real mess cleaning up that fluid as well.

Just a warning.

Bill
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: mscoffman on April 23, 2015, 03:11:50 AM
Hi! Profitis

I have an idea.  Suppose we have a cylinder of gadolinium metal with a hollow
in the center. The concept would be to have two chemical reactions. The first
would be an exothermic reation and a produce positive delta temperature pulse
that would drive the gadolinium above its curie temperature turning its magnetic
attractiveness off.

The second would be an endothermic reation creating a negative delta temperature
pulse that would turn gadolinium metal attractiveness back on. During the rest of the
time of these two cycles the chemical reactions would be recharged and excess heat
eliminated.

This would use a small amount of energy to let gadolinium step over the "sticky spot"
in magnetic wheels and vgates ect.

The first reaction is an HHO reaction cycle, electrolysis and piezo HV trigger, and combustion.

I was wondering if you use the specs for the HHO reaction, is there any rapid powerful
endothermic chemical reactions that would work the same way?  But could be used opposite
the HHO discharged/recharge reaction? I happen to like those N tripple-bond switches used
in creating Azide gases.

Any good endothermic chemical reactions up your sleeve?


..S..MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: TinselKoala on April 23, 2015, 04:26:38 AM
As I understand it the difference in attraction to a magnet by Gd doesn't really vary much from below to above its Curie point. If you want to use something that actually does change a lot, use Nickel. Its Curie point is quite a bit higher but still in range that you can attain by chemical reactions or focussed sunlight.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: mscoffman on April 23, 2015, 04:48:15 AM
As I understand it the difference in attraction to a magnet by Gd doesn't really vary much from below to above its Curie point. If you want to use something that actually does change a lot, use Nickel. Its Curie point is quite a bit higher but still in range that you can attain by chemical reactions or focussed sunlight.

ok. thank you tk.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: nestor89 on April 23, 2015, 06:48:32 AM
ok. thank you tk.

ct of nickel is 360 C.

neodym magnet looses magnetization around 80 C and ferrit magnet around 250 C

I do not know how magnetic paramagnetic nickel will be above ct. however i think with the means available to us it does only make sense to use gd for fun experiments.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 23, 2015, 07:43:14 AM
@markscoffman yes I've got some great ideas to try with chemicals for example two pieces gadolinum in washing soda solution should be fairly passivated by the insoluble oxide layer and thus should yield interesting result on the meter if we pass a magnet back-n-forward over one electrode.lanthanum (in zippo lighter-flints) becomes amazingly passive in solutions of alkali and lanthanum is a direct relative of gadolinium.I'l be damned if we can pickup a voltage reading from two gadolinium electrodes with a STATIONARY magnet.but let's see what result ekim gets with the coils first before plunging into chemistry.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: nestor89 on April 23, 2015, 08:26:35 AM
@markscoffman yes I've got some great ideas to try with chemicals for example two pieces gadolinum in washing soda solution should be fairly passivated by the insoluble oxide layer and thus should yield interesting result on the meter if we pass a magnet back-n-forward over one electrode.lanthanum (in zippo lighter-flints) becomes amazingly passive in solutions of alkali and lanthanum is a direct relative of gadolinium.I'l be damned if we can pickup a voltage reading from two gadolinium electrodes with a STATIONARY magnet.but let's see what result ekim gets with the coils first before plunging into chemistry.

oxyd layer of gd does not stick to probe but will flake off. gd may therefore not be passivated by oxyd layer

Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 23, 2015, 08:35:40 AM
Nestor:'oxyd layer of gd does not stick to probe but will flake
off. gd may therefore not be passivated by oxyd layer'

The rate of flake-off may be slowed down under alkali.remember,atmospheric air has co2 and water in it,acidic,corrosive,penetrating
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: nestor89 on April 23, 2015, 10:21:53 AM
good read on gd curie temperature and coils

https://physlab.lums.edu.pk/images/b/b0/Curie_temp_exp_ej7609.pdf
http://www.hep.wisc.edu/~prepost/407/curie/curie.pdf
http://www.ijser.org/researchpaper%5CINVESTIGATION-OF-CRITICAL-TEMPERATURE-AND-MAGNETIC-SUSCEPTIBILITY.pdf
http://physics.usask.ca/~angie/p404/reports/exp1/1_p404_curie_temp.doc

Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 29, 2015, 11:15:05 AM
So what's the latest developments ekim.what's going down with the coins
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on April 29, 2015, 02:14:48 PM
Well, nothing really.  I have kinda lost interest in this because I think it's a dead end.  But I still plan to do your experiment, I will commit to doing it this weekend.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on April 29, 2015, 03:30:17 PM
There's 2 experiments that I highly doubt will end in a dead-end if done with sufficient tweaking ekim.those 2 are the classical smot experiment and the classical backspike electromagnetic experiment but ok let's see what you can do with the coins since they're not exactly ideal shape for many experiments
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on May 01, 2015, 06:48:08 PM
The demonstrated effect of de-coupling Gadolinium from a ferrite magnet by "Hairdryer" opens the possibility of a magnetic gate shielded magnetically on the exit end. Heating the Gadolinium to just the right point is not costly to sustain. Meir Alfasi appears to gain in acceleration through the gate this way in his water video.

The cost to power a Gadolinium rotor by "Hairdryer" coupled to a tail end magnet shield could be Overunity.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on May 01, 2015, 07:01:47 PM
I daresay I've got a similar idea mr synchro.in order to prove ou we need just one cycle demonstrated at a gain.we put the coin on a table or in a jar of water at just below curie point.we slowly bring a weak magnet close to the stationary coin from ONTOP.when the magnet gets close enough,bang,the coin flings onto it.the collision generates just enough heat to raise the temp of the coin above the curie and plonk,it falls right back dowwwnnnn.to where it began.one overunity cycle
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on May 01, 2015, 07:09:11 PM
The demonstrated effect of de-coupling Gadolinium from a ferrite magnet by "Hairdryer" opens the possibility of a magnetic gate shielded magnetically on the exit end. Heating the Gadolinium to just the right point is not costly to sustain. Meir Alfasi appears to gain in acceleration through the gate this way in his water video.

The cost to power a Gadolinium rotor by "Hairdryer" coupled to a tail end magnet shield could be Overunity.

Yes, but the fact that I cannot repeat that with a neo might mean something else is happening.  GD is attracted more strongly to neo than ferrite.  You cannot get GD to drop off a neo, no matter what temp.  I believe this means that when GD is heated, GD passes from ferromagnetic to paramagnetic SEAMLESSLY.  There is no point at which GD is non-magnetic.  But it is very strongly paramagnetic above it's Curie.  Uniquely so. 

So, my interpretation of what is happening in the GD-ferrite magnet-hairdryer experiment is:  the GD sticks to the ferrite below it's curie.  the hairdryer heats it past it's curie at which point it becomes paramagnetic.  In it's paramagnetic state, it is still attracted to the ferrite, but much more weakly and so it drops off, making it look like something magic is happening.  But if this was the case, the experiment would also work with a neo.  It does not.

My uneducated guess is that the Curie Point and Paramagnetism must have some relationship.  The lower the Curie Point of a material, the stronger the paramagnetic state.  The higher the Curie Point, the weaker the paramagnetic state.  There is a give and take that evens things out making any net gain impossible.




Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on May 01, 2015, 07:24:44 PM
Another idea is to shove a coin in a plastic groove rail which allows it to move only edgeways backward/forward.shove two bar magnets on eitherside and make that coin SMOTforward and fling.fling out of the magnets' field of influence.compare distance of breakaway of gadolinum to distance of breakaway of nickel.integrate relative magnetic susceptabilities/densities of the two metals vs distance FLUNG.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on May 01, 2015, 07:29:50 PM
I daresay I've got a similar idea mr synchro.in order to prove ou we need just one cycle demonstrated at a gain.we put the coin on a table or in a jar of water at just below curie point.we slowly bring a weak magnet close to the stationary coin from ONTOP.when the magnet gets close enough,bang,the coin flings onto it.the collision generates just enough heat to raise the temp of the coin above the curie and plonk,it falls right back dowwwnnnn.to where it began.one overunity cycle

Thought that too.  Thought it would be very simple to make a pendulum that would operate similarly.  But - a neo just grabs it and holds it.  a ferrite WILL NOT raise the temp of the GD enough to make the effect a reality.  It just doesn't work the way we are thinking it will.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on May 01, 2015, 07:35:27 PM
Quote ekim'a ferrite WILL NOT
raise the temp of the GD enough'

It will if we controll the temperature of the environment and keep it at just the critical temp of release.I'm thinking of a pendulum under some water perhaps that is kept stable via fishtank-heater?
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: ekimtoor1 on May 01, 2015, 07:48:37 PM
Quote ekim'a ferrite WILL NOT
raise the temp of the GD enough'

It will if we controll the temperature of the environment and keep it at just the critical temp of release.I'm thinking of a pendulum under some water perhaps that is kept stable via fishtank-heater?

Yeah, that's an interesting idea.  For sure, if there is something to be exploited, it will depend on very precise control of ambient temperature.  The water may not be necessary, just encapsulating the rig and controlling the air temp might be enough.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on May 01, 2015, 07:57:37 PM
If you have a way to controll airtemp then yes(a sauna-room?greenhouse?)but I'm thinking water will be easier.water has a lovely tendency to hold heat(high heat capacity)
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: mscoffman on May 01, 2015, 08:42:02 PM

Quote ekim'a ferrite WILL NOT
raise the temp of the GD enough'

It will if we controll the temperature of the environment and keep it at just the critical temp of release.I'm thinking of a pendulum under some water perhaps that is kept stable via fishtank-heater?


One of those papers on the internet discloses using a scientific instrument that is essentially a "hotplate" that is driven
by *Peltier* devices such that it allows adjustment of the plate temperature +/- through room temperature. One could
create a ridge of two different temperatures that essentially *forces* the Gd through its state transitions then experimentally
- slowly drop the forcing temperature away while keeping the primary temperature range "in a groove".

I favor these type experiments rather skullduggery then because it is very difficult to get your head around the magnitude
of magnetic, mechanical, thermal momentum or thermal energy ranges with any degree of accuracy, especially enough to
project any accurate functionality out of it.

..S..MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: mscoffman on May 01, 2015, 09:05:15 PM
Another thing, People are forgetting that if you want an adjustable magnetic field one can use an electromagnet
from one or two identical solenoids. There will be a heat pulse but one can isolate that. People seem to think that
since we are doing overunity experiments they must have all of or intermediate experiments overunity of permanent
magnets and then overlook the strength controllability of electromagnets.

Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on May 03, 2015, 10:44:00 PM
Quote from ekimtoor1: "But - a neo just grabs it and holds it".

At :40 seconds into this video JLN stresses how important perfect alignment is between North and South.

The ferrite torrid coil needs to be centered exactly between the two magnet poles to achieve the "Orbo" release effect:

The gap needs to be precisely controlled as well!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTMQFvWkS9s

The Gadolinium sample needs to be precisely positioned between two opposite poles of two neo magnets and separated by a gap to react to the change in Curie point just like JLN'S ferrite toroid coil does to applied voltage. Exact distance and balance are critical. The "Magnetocaloric effect" might be sufficient to raise the temperature of the Gadolinium in that "Goldilocks Zone" to release the rotor stud.

Positioned at just the right distance equidistant and away from each magnet pole, the hairdryer should get the Gadolinium to act just like it does with the ferrite. A string and two neo cylinders facing N and S out can suspend the Gadolinium at 45º for testing.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on May 05, 2015, 12:11:45 AM
A Gadolinium sample, suspended by a string and attracted to a pair of neo's off to the side at an angle, should drop away when heated above the Curie point then re-attract after it cools down.

The small amount of heat required to pass over the Curie point, depending on the starting temperature, might be less then the pendulum force measured in both directions.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: TinselKoala on May 05, 2015, 12:36:27 AM
See Telsa's patent # 396,121.

Here's a discussion, with some designs:
http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/POWER/thermomagnetic/thermag.htm

I don't think Gadolinium will drop away like you think. Nickel certainly will but takes more heating. I don't know what is in "lighter flints" that will make them work as in the design in the link, but it might be interesting to try.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: profitis on May 05, 2015, 10:33:36 AM
Gadolinium is a hot contender for a 2nd law violation because of its large temperature changes when flung in and out of magnetic fields,regardless wether they be one pole magnet,two pole magnet,neo,or otherwise. If we wrap a copper coil around gadolinium and fire it briefly on the battery we are going to get much more cooling effect than with a ferrite rod.much more of a backshot spark the moment the domains re-randomize and suck in enormous amount of heat direct from the ambient.it is going to suck in more heat from the ambient than was given to the ambient by us.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: Hope on July 18, 2015, 02:57:58 PM
Phase Change Magnetics is worth looking into. 
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on September 06, 2018, 04:14:14 PM
Heating the permanent magnet above the currie point:
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on September 06, 2018, 04:49:59 PM
Imagine placing a hot cup of water over a permanent Neo magnet disc with a gadolinium piston underneath suspended over an ice cube. The oscillation should be perpetual and frequent, as the heat from the cup of water reinforces the magneto heating from the PM, and the cooling from the base module causes the gadolinium to transition back to it's magnetic state after it drops to the cooling base.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on September 06, 2018, 08:06:16 PM
This inventor calls the overhead permanent magnet the "Hot Reservoir" A steam iron and a laser thermometer could easily help trigger an oscillation in the gadolinium cube between the magnet and the "Cold Reservoir" underneath!
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on September 06, 2018, 09:22:28 PM
One 12 volt Peltier Module attached to a heat sink can cool the base and heat the overhead magnet through convection from the heat sink cooling fan. The colder the base the warmer the air circulating over the roof magnet. This combination would work anywhere regardless of environmental temperature. The Arduino can hit the junk drawer too
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on September 07, 2018, 04:49:30 PM
A "Hallbach" array would work best as a "Hot Reservoir" roof magnet primarily because it doubles the field strength while halving the heating mass. A disc of wedges in a ring holder can focus the doubled attraction strength in a downward direction. A CPU heat sink would position over the "Hallbach Array" and circulate ducted hot exhaust from the Peltier module underneath to heat the magnets over 68 degrees Fahrenheit.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on September 09, 2018, 01:20:14 PM
I imagined molding a gadolinium pot and screwing the coil inside. Secondly; The pot can nest in a cold fluid receptacle at the base and recess into the hot reservoir magnet roof. Thirdly; internal contacts can send output through a square axle with spring on top.


The gadolinium pot will not interfere with the faraday effect, while non magnetic, as the pot oscillates it's coil wraps inside the powerful Hallbach flux field.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on September 11, 2018, 09:24:06 PM
Hyperlink?
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on September 15, 2018, 02:14:14 AM

Look at the Currie oscillation this experimenter gets towards the end of the idea with a Euro coin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zbx0wVUeCdE&t=191s
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on September 22, 2018, 04:15:04 PM
These electromagnets raise the temperature of the Gadolinium cube through the MCE: The EM's act as a transistor base for the gadolinium flux gate, at the currie point.

https://apis.mail.yahoo.com/ws/v3/mailboxes/@.id==VjN-1X9NaLC9ZX3FaL6CGMuswusjkt9d1-tx3R3qM3BRpHb3fu55JdZSfkPWvGRe0gruGl2LEeEb8L4Fd0GBJs5fOA/messages/@.id==AAyvWro0rGIgW6ZMpwbZ6PHs8yQ/content/parts/@.id==2/thumbnail?appId=YMailNorrin (https://apis.mail.yahoo.com/ws/v3/mailboxes/@.id==VjN-1X9NaLC9ZX3FaL6CGMuswusjkt9d1-tx3R3qM3BRpHb3fu55JdZSfkPWvGRe0gruGl2LEeEb8L4Fd0GBJs5fOA/messages/@.id==AAyvWro0rGIgW6ZMpwbZ6PHs8yQ/content/parts/@.id==2/thumbnail?appId=YMailNorrin)
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on September 23, 2018, 12:14:35 AM

The gadolinium cube has no attraction to the 12 volt D.C. stator coil electro-magnet when both the electro magnet attracts ferrite and the permanent magnet adheres to the gadolinium?

This is really weird folks; I've never seen anything as tricky to explain.


I tried it on a standard electro magnet and there's zero attraction. The attraction to permanent magnets remains intact.[/size]
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on September 23, 2018, 11:26:39 AM
Magnetic shielding effect of gadolinium:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8b-6v9HSYU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8b-6v9HSYU)


Furthermore; The gadolinium not only has no attraction to the electromagnet, but it blocks the attraction of the attached ceramic magnets to the EM coil from overhead.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on September 23, 2018, 01:45:27 PM
follow up comparison test;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0PifA2dYxc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0PifA2dYxc)

motor concept;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvvPC6_Wq50 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvvPC6_Wq50)
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on September 23, 2018, 09:59:24 PM
Attracting magnets of same polarity facing a gadolinium shield by their opposing ends, then heating the gadolinium above the currie point would allow the gadolinium to spring free unleashing the opposition force between the magnets.


I should have said "Opposing polarities" in the video: Look at the explosive force.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCrt5FwzPC4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCrt5FwzPC4)
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on September 24, 2018, 04:52:58 PM

Now it's clear. The gadolinium acts as a fully open "Flux Gate" above the Currie point.

Two gadolinium discs on each end of a ferrite core inductor with Neo discs in opposition would generate full power when the temperature of the gadolinium shield discs increased over the CP.

The gadolinium attracts a permanent magnet but will not channel the flux like a laminated stator. It "Shunts" it.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on September 24, 2018, 09:33:25 PM

500 Newton's of Electro-magnetic strength un-noticed by Gadolinium cube:

https://youtu.be/sWJzicbQ4ew
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on September 25, 2018, 11:57:22 AM

The gadolinium cube shields the electro-magnet field from magnetic objects while not attracting to it. My bet now is that the knife blade will stick with the gadolinium in between above the gd currie point.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on September 25, 2018, 02:12:02 PM
Here's a new over unity motor design:
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on September 25, 2018, 02:54:08 PM

The serrated shield rotors are connected to a small motor perhaps a Bedini rotor. The few milliwatts it would take to speed the unimpeded shields up would result in inertial flywheel energy amplified and stored in the accelerating ferrite rotors.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on September 25, 2018, 10:09:19 PM

I researched mu metals on Youtube, and came across one where a guy fails to "Impulse magnetizes" a mu metal cleat from a hard drive.

This hints at the same relationship to electrical magnetization as the gadolinium. Mu metal is very cheap and abundant compared to gadolinium.

The mu metal must share the "Un-attraction and Shielding" characteristics of the gadolinium to the electro-magnet field. The discovery I just made should manifest itself in this same metal family alloy group.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on September 26, 2018, 01:10:49 PM
How's this for a quick and dirty generator: Stack a gadolinium disk on a Peltier module and electro-magnet with a Neo magnet on top. Four layers, bottom to top; 1.-Electro-magnet 2.-Gadolinium disk 3.-Peltier module 4.-Neo disk. Every time the gadolinium passed through the currie point the permanent magnet would generate current in the electro-magnet. Voila!


Connecting the Peltier Module to an Arduino and attaching a thermometer to the Gadolinium may empower us to "Flutter" the currie point and generate boundless electricity!
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on September 26, 2018, 07:52:17 PM
I just tested the Mu metal from an old hard drive I salvaged and it attracts the same to the electro-magnet as it does to the permanent magnet. Back to the drawing board. The quality is unique to the gadolinium so far.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on September 26, 2018, 08:10:25 PM
I'm making major new "Quantum Leap" discoveries. The gadolinium cube generates voltage in the electro magnet with the Neo tube attached, and no attraction between the gadolinium and the electro-magnet. This is an awesome effect. This eliminates magnetic drag from magnet rotors. The power is about the same as when attached to the laminated stator, but both the magnet and the gadolinium just slip right by, but the power appears anyway!


Think about it; A gadolinium shield covering the surface of a rotor magnet would eliminate any attraction but still generate power in a ferrite core output coil with no cogging.


Zero Lenz drag! A result of "Magnetic Field refraction". A gadolinium sleeve and "Skycollection" style rotor This kind of output rotor would spin for free, two block magnets nested inside would work fine. This kind of output rotor would generate free power with it's hyper dimensiaol field. __________________
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on September 27, 2018, 12:55:26 PM

Here's an interesting design. Can any features of gadolinium improve it?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfs6fwNA9r0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfs6fwNA9r0)

Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: partzman on September 27, 2018, 03:58:39 PM
I'm making major new "Quantum Leap" discoveries. The gadolinium cube generates voltage in the electro magnet with the Neo tube attached, and no attraction between the gadolinium and the electro-magnet. This is an awesome effect. This eliminates magnetic drag from magnet rotors. The power is about the same as when attached to the laminated stator, but both the magnet and the gadolinium just slip right by, but the power appears anyway!


Think about it; A gadolinium shield covering the surface of a rotor magnet would eliminate any attraction but still generate power in a ferrite core output coil with no cogging.


Zero Lenz drag! A result of "Magnetic Field refraction". A gadolinium sleeve and "Skycollection" style rotor This kind of output rotor would spin for free, two block magnets nested inside would work fine. This kind of output rotor would generate free power with it's hyper dimensiaol field. __________________

Synchro,

This is all really very interesting but would elaborate a little more on your statement above?  What is the "neo tube"?

Also, what was your source for the gadolinium cube you are using?

Regards,
Pm
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: FixedSys on September 27, 2018, 04:36:34 PM
Here's an interesting design. Can any features of gadolinium improve it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfs6fwNA9r0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfs6fwNA9r0)
Same basic design but use a Gd shield where there is no steel shield and remove the steel shield.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on September 27, 2018, 04:36:50 PM
thumbnail (https://apis.mail.yahoo.com/ws/v3/mailboxes/@.id==VjN-1X9NaLC9ZX3FaL6CGMuswusjkt9d1-tx3R3qM3BRpHb3fu55JdZSfkPWvGRe0gruGl2LEeEb8L4Fd0GBJs5fOA/messages/@.id==APeA7ih6O0roW6zpcgbZ6MaR3Po/content/parts/@.id==2/thumbnail?appId=YMailNorrin)
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on September 27, 2018, 04:37:43 PM
Synchro,

This is all really very interesting but would elaborate a little more on your statement above?  What is the "neo tube"?

Also, what was your source for the gadolinium cube you are using?

Regards,
Pm


The source for the 1" Gadolinium cube was "Amazon" $155. plus shipping

Click on this thumbnail to see the "Neo-tube", cube and electromagnet:


thumbnail (https://apis.mail.yahoo.com/ws/v3/mailboxes/@.id==VjN-1X9NaLC9ZX3FaL6CGMuswusjkt9d1-tx3R3qM3BRpHb3fu55JdZSfkPWvGRe0gruGl2LEeEb8L4Fd0GBJs5fOA/messages/@.id==APeA7ih6O0roW6zpcgbZ6MaR3Po/content/parts/@.id==2/thumbnail?appId=YMailNorrin)


Drawing the 1" Gd cube across the electromagnet with the Neo magnet on top generates a voltage in the coil but there's no magnetic attraction between the cube and the EM.


Who would believe that the full 500 newtons of electromagnetic attraction strength from the coil would have zero effect on the gadolinium while it's exerting very powerful attraction from the Neo magnet!
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on September 30, 2018, 10:02:05 AM
This is a picture of gadolinium powder. This appears to be readily available online. I'm trying to order some now from "Stanford Advanced Materials". I plan to laminate my 3/4" diametric Neo tube with the Gd powder and bonding agent to see if I can manufacture a "Lenz Free" output spinner.
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: partzman on September 30, 2018, 03:49:19 PM
This is a picture of gadolinium powder. This appears to be readily available online. I'm trying to order some now from "Stanford Advanced Materials". I plan to laminate my 3/4" diametric Neo tube with the Gd powder and bonding agent to see if I can manufacture a "Lenz Free" output spinner.

Synchro,

Thanks for the supplier help as I found some 10mm gadolinium cubes on Amazon but bought them cheaper direct from Luciteria Science online.

Be careful with the powder as gadolinium is proving to be toxic as current research has found when used in contrast-enhanced MRIs and MRAs.

Pm
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on January 14, 2019, 01:35:30 PM
                                                      Gadolinium flux diode:


"Power generation device for providing electric power by utilizing magnetocaloric effect. Processes or apparatus peculiar to the manufacture or treatment thereof or of parts thereof using thermal change of magnetic permeability, e.g. working above and below the Curie point, e.g. pyromagnetic devices."


This guy is running fluids of different temperatures through the tiny cryo-tubes to raise and lower the temperature of the Gadolinium flux diode over and under the currie point:


https://patents.google.com/patent/US8692438 (https://patents.google.com/patent/US8692438)
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: synchro1 on January 14, 2019, 02:12:21 PM
I imagined that a coil field might raise and lower the temperature of the Gadolinium, but after testing the material for that effect I discovered it had none. I believe this amounts to a heretofore unrealized quality of the element that is still puzzling: The Gadolinium is only magnetic to a permanent field and inert to an electro magnetic field. Some kind of magnetic semiconductor effect. Very important discovery with no immediate applications!
Title: Re: Gadolinium Magnet Generator.
Post by: sm0ky2 on January 16, 2019, 04:53:54 AM
It’s not a true ‘cutie point’.


It’s a flipping of the figure-8 helical anti-ferromagnetic field.
Since the hexagonal crystalline complex forms pillars instead of squares
like would say a cubic-face centered crystal...
     : the diplex field is stronger in one anti ferromagnetic vector.
For reasons of entropy, the inverted helixes interchange positions
when the temperature crosses the 67 degree mark.
When observing the substance this gives an apparent ferromagnetic field
  below this temperature, and an opposite paramagnetic field above the temp.


both fields exist, just that one is stronger than the other in the polarized vector.


a true curie point would cause the substance to loses all magnetism.


the problem here is, the changes to magnetism are counteracted by the crystals own
self-induced change in internal temperature.
In short: it requires more energy to maintain the thermal conditions than manifest by
the changes in magnetism.
And vice versa.
You lose energy in both directions.


Or in other words, when the environmental temperature changes across the boundary:
The crystal takes enough energy from the environment to flip the helixes.