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Discussion board help and admin topics => What is Over Unity and Free Energy => Topic started by: FatBird on March 27, 2015, 02:50:11 PM
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http://pesn.com/2015/03/24/9602601_SHT-in-new-facility_replicates-device_runs-8-hours/ (http://pesn.com/2015/03/24/9602601_SHT-in-new-facility_replicates-device_runs-8-hours/)
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Once again Sterling Allan repeats without any question the absurd claims of a promoter. According to SHT's very own Professor Konstantin Balakiryan the process:
“I agree. In Symphony 7A, active metal alloy is involved in the oxidation reaction."
Ask not what you can do for your drain cleaner. Ask what your drain cleaner can do for you.
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HHmmm
Mark E
I suppose we can make believe one sentence tells the whole story ?
“This is a Chemical Reaction”
Professor K. Balakiryan – “I agree. In Symphony 7A, active metal alloy is involved in the oxidation reaction. However, the amount of formed oxide for a one hour period is only 2.1%. During that same time, Symphony 7A produces more than 7 kg of hydrogen, and the share of that chemical reaction is only about 189 grams of hydrogen. If all the hydrogen in Symphony 7A reactor was produced by oxidation – reduction reaction, then in one hour we would spend 97.9 % of all active metal alloy, and the cartridge would have to be replaced practically every hour. This could have become the weak point of our hydrogen reactor. However, in Symphony 7A, the cartridge is replaced once a week, and for the model Symphony 7AM, cartridge replacement will take place once every four weeks.”
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This one has been around for a while and has been discredited before now. Basically they are claiming to be creating matter (mass) from nothing. Don't waste your time. There are so many things wrong with this that it's not even funny any more.
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Tinsel
They have stated since day one that this claim was "impossible" to their Peers.
Konstantin has sighted conversations with Bohr as he promised that this would be his legacy and gift to humanity..
of course His "partner" Jack pays the rent and his only legacy seems to have dollar signs attached to it.
BTW
this symphony makes sense ,it seems LENR may come in many separate Flavors that require
several collective efforts to manifest.
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HHmmm
Mark E
I suppose we can make believe one sentence tells the whole story ?
“This is a Chemical Reaction”
Professor K. Balakiryan – “I agree. In Symphony 7A, active metal alloy is involved in the oxidation reaction. However, the amount of formed oxide for a one hour period is only 2.1%. During that same time, Symphony 7A produces more than 7 kg of hydrogen, and the share of that chemical reaction is only about 189 grams of hydrogen. If all the hydrogen in Symphony 7A reactor was produced by oxidation – reduction reaction, then in one hour we would spend 97.9 % of all active metal alloy, and the cartridge would have to be replaced practically every hour. This could have become the weak point of our hydrogen reactor. However, in Symphony 7A, the cartridge is replaced once a week, and for the model Symphony 7AM, cartridge replacement will take place once every four weeks.”
Chet, basically what they show is that they plug a contraption into the wall and some hydrogen comes out. They have also obtained some test reports from companies that usually perform smog tests. Their stories are fraught with self-contradictions and declarations of the super-super extraordinary without a shred of evidence. Variations on using drain cleaner as a miracle source of hydrogen periodically come and go. That company: Zenn Motor Cars that bought the magic capacitor story from Richard Weir of EESTOR bought a story of magic hydrogen pellets a couple of years earlier from clowns who called themselves Alternate Energy Company. Their ploy morphed, but when it started out it was light metal in a mildly acidic solution. PESN conducted a two part story on them that was positively hilarious, just as PESN's coverage of SHT has been hilarious. For a fun way to waste an hour you can listent to Sterling Allen's interview with the company's president Hakop Aganyan from a year ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYliDUI8bY4.
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Mark
its not what comes out of the salesman's mouth that matters
its what Konstantin writes and the passion with which he writes it.
as well as the audience he is addressing [not you or Sterling ]
yes it is truly heresy....
things like "transmutation"....
http://kochari.info/2014/05/07/solar-hydrogen-trends-inc-s-chief-scientist-konstantin-balakiryan-reveals-the-secrets-of-the-hydrogen-reactor-symphony-7a/
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@FatBird
thanks for the post
Floor
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Mark
its not what comes out of the salesman's mouth that matters
its what Konstantin writes and the passion with which he writes it.
as well as the audience he is addressing [not you or Sterling ]
yes it is truly heresy....
things like "transmutation"....
http://kochari.info/2014/05/07/solar-hydrogen-trends-inc-s-chief-scientist-konstantin-balakiryan-reveals-the-secrets-of-the-hydrogen-reactor-symphony-7a/
How many preposterous and self contradictory statements by Konstantin Balakiryan would you like be to point out to you? You have a brain. Use it.
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SSsooo
Mark E
you take this quote from Konstantin
Quote
“I agree. In Symphony 7A, active metal alloy is involved in the oxidation reaction."
and tell your readers it really means this
Mark E
quote
Ask not what you can do for your drain cleaner. Ask what your drain cleaner can do for you.
[Intimating a solely Chemical reaction]
when in fact Konstantin actually said This...
Konstantin
Quote
“This is a Chemical Reaction”
Professor K. Balakiryan – “I agree. In Symphony 7A, active metal alloy is involved in the oxidation reaction. However, the amount of formed oxide for a one hour period is only 2.1%. During that same time, Symphony 7A produces more than 7 kg of hydrogen, and the share of that chemical reaction is only about 189 grams of hydrogen. If all the hydrogen in Symphony 7A reactor was produced by oxidation – reduction reaction, then in one hour we would spend 97.9 % of all active metal alloy, and the cartridge would have to be replaced practically every hour. This could have become the weak point of our hydrogen reactor. However, in Symphony 7A, the cartridge is replaced once a week, and for the model Symphony 7AM, cartridge replacement will take place once every four weeks.”
end quote
@Mark E
I agree with letting the readers decide for themselves ,I don't think selective editing should be
a tool you need to bolster your claim.
Nor do I believe Konstantin Balakiryan is a thief or liar..
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SSsooo
Mark E
you take this quote from Konstantin
Quote
“I agree. In Symphony 7A, active metal alloy is involved in the oxidation reaction."
and tell your readers it really means this
Mark E
quote
Ask not what you can do for your drain cleaner. Ask what your drain cleaner can do for you.
[Intimating a solely Chemical reaction]
when in fact Konstantin actually said This...
Konstantin
Quote
“This is a Chemical Reaction”
Professor K. Balakiryan – “I agree. In Symphony 7A, active metal alloy is involved in the oxidation reaction. However, the amount of formed oxide for a one hour period is only 2.1%. During that same time, Symphony 7A produces more than 7 kg of hydrogen, and the share of that chemical reaction is only about 189 grams of hydrogen. If all the hydrogen in Symphony 7A reactor was produced by oxidation – reduction reaction, then in one hour we would spend 97.9 % of all active metal alloy, and the cartridge would have to be replaced practically every hour. This could have become the weak point of our hydrogen reactor. However, in Symphony 7A, the cartridge is replaced once a week, and for the model Symphony 7AM, cartridge replacement will take place once every four weeks.”
end quote
@Mark E
I agree with letting the readers decide for themselves ,I don't think selective editing should be
a tool you need to bolster your claim.
Nor do I believe Konstantin Balakiryan is a thief or liar..
Chet you can believe what you like. You can believe that SHT fission oxygen, which requires many orders of magnitude more energy than can ever be reclaimed by bonding hydrogen to oxygen, and that they do so with essentially no input energy. You can believe that they have such a process that overturns nuclear physics with no evidence. You can believe their claims that they fuse elements in their device that supposedly produces only hydrogen: the most basic element which must be fused to make other elements. You can believe that while supposedly transmutating water to hydrogen gram for gram that they destroy the mass of their admitted metal alloy. You can believe that Bigfoot and Yetti are having babies together secretly trained as commandos for a secret army to battle ISIL. Or you can: use your brain, assemble the evidence, and consider it critically.
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Mark E
I'm just paying attention...You have very strong beliefs which help to keep your
investigative eyes on things you feel have merit .
I feel this "bond strength" can be manipulated ,which is a perfect example of how we don't see Eye to eye
and its happening in TinMan's water fuel thread.
these claims are not new
https://sites.google.com/site/braxpeace2/waterinfuelblends
here we have Johan running a loaded 35 KW diesel gen on 50% fuel 50% water
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF_3rfuT46g
however Men such as yourself start calling people thieves and liars ...or just plain Stupid
when these claims are made.
if the bonding strengths can indeed be manipulated ??[as Arie Degeus, Johan and others have claimed.
well then I'll just keep paying attention.....you can take whatever position you chose
OH and just for clarity, Johan cannot work with petrol engines .. only Diesel.
TinMan and his friend have something very special...
Chet K
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Mark E
I'm just paying attention...You have very strong beliefs which help to keep your
investigative eyes on things you feel have merit .
I feel this "bond strength" can be manipulated ,which is a perfect example of how we don't see Eye to eye
Hydrogen bond strength is well quantified, as are binding energies. Feelings are no substitute for meticulously obtained data.
and its happening in TinMan's water fuel thread.
No, tinman is experimenting with an engine where there are many variables. He can observe: fuel consumption, and power output at some load conditions. TinMan has not shown that his experiments have any means to evaluate hydrogen bond strength.
these claims are not new
https://sites.google.com/site/braxpeace2/waterinfuelblends
here we have Johan running a loaded 35 KW diesel gen on 50% fuel 50% water
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF_3rfuT46g
however Men such as yourself start calling people thieves and liars ...or just plain Stupid
when these claims are made.
Chet it would be helpful if you would actually read and comprehend both what is contained in the references that you cite, and the posts of others such as myself that you choose to argue against. You cannot find, because I never asserted that all water injection and/or emulsification claims are the products of: thieves, liars, or the just plain stupid. If you bother to read through the references that you cited you will find a mix of claims. Many of those claims are subject to the test conditions applied. Coming back on track to SHT, I have shown a number of the complete absurdities and falsities in their claims.
if the bonding strengths can indeed be manipulated ??[as Arie Degeus, Johan and others have claimed.
well then I'll just keep paying attention.....you can take whatever position you chose
The problem is that you are not paying attention to the data that has been painstakingly obtained over the years.
OH and just for clarity, Johan cannot work with petrol engines .. only Diesel.
TinMan and his friend have something very special...
Chet K
We shall see what Tinman comes up with when he gets to the point where he has a defined experiment that he chooses to show. The data always tells the story. The data includes the design and test conditions under which any experiment is conducted.
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Mark E
I never said you claimed all were thieves and liars, water has been added to fuel since day one.
However,
when someone makes a claim of 50% water and 50% fuel running a loaded 35kw generator
as well or better than straight fuel [my example cited above]
what say yee?
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Mark E
I never said you claimed all were thieves and liars, water has been added to fuel since day one.
however Men such as yourself start calling people thieves and liars ...or just plain Stupid
when these claims are made.
Was that: a) A poor choice of words, b) A strawman? If you are going to attribute something to me, then be honest and attribute something that I actually have expressed. It was enough that you vectored off onto TinMan's current experiments when discussing SHT's utter BS. If I were TinMan, I would be greatly offended to be cast in the same group as SHT.
However,
when someone makes a claim of 50% water and 50% fuel running a loaded 35kw generator
as well or better than straight fuel [my example cited above]
This is where I challenge you to improve your comprehension.
1) The name plate of a device is very different from the actual power that comes out of it. It is very common: witness Gerald Morin and countless others covered by PESN over the years to take a name plate value and declare that an input or output power value. It isn't.
2) What counts with a generator is how much fuel is consumed for any given load. This is known as the specific fuel consumption: SFC.
3) Many factors contribute to the SFC of a given generator design.
4) Water injection / emulsification schemes have been employed many places, sometimes with significant improvements and sometimes not, depending on the circumstances.
5) ICEs are often operated at low load where they are very inefficient. Various approaches have been taken to try and address that. It is conceivable that a scheme using water could improve fuel consumption at low load. Depending on the specifics, a particular scheme may be valuable. Whether or not the idea is new or not depends. Over the past 120 years lots of people have tried to think of ways to use water to advantage in an ICE. A lot of ground has been covered.
6) To date: claims that water itself acts as fuel have never been shown to have any merit. Caloric output has never been shown to exceed that of the HHV of the fuel alone.
TinMan's language is often not scientifically precise. At the moment it is not clear what he means when he says "catalyst", even though catalyst has a specific formal definition. We will see as his experiments come along whether he has found conditions under which his water plus "catalyst" shows advantage versus straight gasoline under whatever test conditions he ends up using or not. His "catalyst" may for example be an aromatic that tends to burn very hot and very fast that in no way chemically reacts with the water, but benefits from the thermal properties of the water.
Assuming that TinMan's experiments show better output / lower fuel consumption using his chosen approach versus straight gasoline, then the next logical question is whether that advantage is, or could yield a competitive SFC against currently marketed devices, and if so under what operating conditions. Finally, there comes the issue of what mechanisms would be in play to yield the advantage should it manifest.
what say yee?
I say the data always tells the story.
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Yes or no works better for me.
I'm a simple man.
from your essay [last post] I get Nay....
and when TinMan shows water doing something you have never seen it do ,we will talk again about what's possible.
good news ...it won't take that long.
I rest.
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Yes or no works better for me.
I'm a simple man.
from your essay [last post] I get Nay....
and when TinMan shows water doing something you have never seen it do ,we will talk again about what's possible.
good news ...it won't take that long.
I rest.
One can always dream.
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Really? The SHT? Are they not missing the letter "I" in there somewhere?
Who would name a device this unless it was to play a joke on folks? (Like Sterling who bought in as usual.)
I am just asking.
Bill
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I'm a simple man.
Great song:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMmTkKz60W8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMmTkKz60W8)
No disrespect intended, I just thought folks would enjoy the link.
Bill
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They visited Michael McKubre and tried to convince him they have something. The self described expert business people at SHT have not published any kind of endorsement by McKubre so it is a safe bet they have not persuaded him that their claims are true.
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In early conversations I had with Jack he mentioned SRI and issues with disclosure.
I would not use that meeting as any sort of yardstick whatsoever.
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In early conversations I had with Jack he mentioned SRI and issues with disclosure.
I would not use that meeting as any sort of yardstick whatsoever.
It is SHT who made much ado of their visit to the Green Tech Investing conference at SRI back in August 2014. They managed to get a photo with Dr. Zanella and Michael McKubre. Hakop sent a copy of that photo along with his representations of discussions with McKubre to Sterling Allan at PESN where the words "due diligence" are considered outside their purview.
There is no need to remind you who Michael McKubre is. As a scientist, he is one of the most authoritative experts in the world. At the beginning of the meeting, Dr. McKubre, with his whole appearance, showed skepticism in all this.
However, by submitting our documents including [three third-party] test results of "Symphony 7A", convincing evidence and theoretical underpinnings of physical and chemical processes made by our top scientist Prof. Konstantin Balakiryan, who was present, persuaded him to recognize the validity of the agreeable facts.
The weasel wording might suggest to a careless reader Balakiryan made at least a partial believer out of McKubre. But, taken literally, Hakop's words say only that McKubre recognized (acknowledged) what McKubre found as "agreeable facts". Now, almost ten months later SHT has yet to report a single qualified third party who takes any of SHT's ridiculous claims seriously, including McKubre. That's the same McKubre who spent years promoting Irving Dardik's glorified biorhythm "superwaves" as a key to cold fusion. (Weinberger, Sharon "Warming up to Cold Fusion", 9/21/2004 Washington Post Five years later McKubre did a press tour with Irving Dardik following '60 Minutes' "Cold Fusion is Hot Again".) The trap that SHT have pulled on themselves is name dropping for credibility and then failing to secure any endorsement from the names they drop despite claiming to have a working proof of concept.
SHT claim to have in hand a cold fusion device that does what no other cold fusion device has ever done: Work every time. If the claim were true it would erase the doubts that plague cold fusion experiments. Dr. Garwin would get as many sequential cups of tea as he could ever want. IOW, everyone in the cold fusion world would be extremely anxious to see SHT's cold fusion claims proved true. Yet, none endorse it. I know why and so do you.
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Yes I do know why no CF experts will endorse it, How can you endorse a Black box ?
An impossible claim and nobody is told how it works??
any kind of Endorsement from a facility like SRI would be a Joke without full disclosure and a thorough investigation , not what they do.
everybody wants the recipe...What a surprise .
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Yes I do know why no CF experts will endorse it, How can you endorse a Black box ?
An impossible claim and nobody is told how it works??
any kind of Endorsement from a facility like SRI would be a Joke without full disclosure and a thorough investigation , not what they do.
everybody wants the recipe...What a surprise .
Except that's not true Chet. Black box testing is performed all the time. In this case SHT claims that their black box rewrites nuclear physics in a number of ways. The false claim of fissioning oxygen into hydrogen without the commensurate difference in binding energies would be monstrous in its value if it were true. It would be OU by factors of millions to one. The value of such a thing would be beyond calculation. A year has passed and SHT's results don't show any evidence of that monster claim. SHT don't even treat it as their primary claim. They do not even treat their cold fusion claim as primary. They show a box that emits gas. The rest is empty talk.
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Mark E
Soo if you believe this can be properly vetted in a black box with no other info ...
please explain what that would look like ?
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Mark E
Soo if you believe this can be properly vetted in a black box with no other info ...
please explain what that would look like ?
There are several "this".
1) Claim of gram for gram evolution of hydrogen from water. Based on weight and volume of apparatus determine greatest mass of hydrogen that can be stored within the apparatus by any conventionally known means. Weigh apparatus at test start and end. Externally supply water source greater than or equal to ten times the determined mass. Externally draw off emissions measuring mass flow rate and analyzing gas content. Run until the earlier event: water source is exhausted, or unit stops emitting hydrogen gas. If the water source exhausts and the hydrogen mass output matches to 90% or more, and the ending weight is no more than the sum of the starting weight plus the water added less the gas evolved the claim is met. Otherwise the claim fails.
2) Claim of oxygen fission. Determine by volume and mass of apparatus under test the greatest mass of elements H through N that can be stored within the DUT by conventional means. Weigh the DUT before and after testing. Supply pure O2 supply to apparatus. Under conditions as in 1) operate the unit until the earlier that it has been supplied 10 times as much oxygen mass as mass of emitted gasses of any composition of elements from H to N. If the emitted mass of gasses from H to N equals or exceeds 90% of the oxygen mass supplied to the unit, and the unit weight after testing is no more thn the sum of the starting weight plus added oxygen less the weight of the gas evolved the claim is met. Otherwise the claim fails.
Shall we go on?
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Sounds like a proper Path, It would be very good to ask at SRI if similar protocols were
requested.
some will have a specific format they follow,disclosure or "tell your story walking, there's the door, others, will bend over backwards to do as you propose ,much bigger commitment and cost .
I will call them in the next few days.
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In more than one year they have never published such test results. To quote TK: "I know why and so do you."