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Author Topic: Magnetic Engine Video  (Read 40466 times)

Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2015, 02:29:47 PM »
@Vineet,

You can make this experiment completely "hands free", and very simple.

On the pendulum rod close to the hub you can place a shield that covers the fixed magnet when the pendulum magnet is farthest away. This will cause this magnet to approach the fixed magnet again.
If the pendulum increase flucuations by itself (What I strongly believe will not) you have proved your design.

Experiments done without any external influence will always be the most reilable ones. Then you will take away any possible doubt.

Vidar

If you keep the shield fixed on hub,  at some point the attractive force between shield and strong fixed magnet will come in equilibrium with  repelling force of pendulum magnet and fixed magnet. It will not work.

You can keep a sliding shield on pendulum magnet which slides up or down when pendulum  comes closer to the fixed magnet.  In that case you have to make pendulum magnet very strong and fixed magnet very weak.  It is a complicated mechanism and I cannot do that.

This is a simple experiment without involving any cost. Why don't you build it as it is and verify it?

 
 
 

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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2015, 02:29:47 PM »

Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2015, 02:51:25 PM »

There is no drag in the setup because shield is moving parallel to the pole on the surface of pole experiencing uniform flux throughout its path. There is only frictional force between moving ball and magnet's surface. This frictional force is very less
because of 'point contact' of ball with the magnet which can be further reduced by lubricating the surface.
If for some strange reason you were unable to detect the drag with your hands, then you should know that is not true.  Instead of using your hands, you can use a weight on a thread that goes over a pulley as the source of force to move the shield.  You can substitute unmagnetized iron or steel bars for the magnet and see how fast a weight pulls the shield to one side, and then repeat first with the magnet restored, and then with both the magnet and the pendulum.
Quote

The question here is not really perpetual motion but it is about overunity.  Is output enrgy more than supplied input energy?
What do you think in that demonstration suggests overunity?
Quote
To know the answer we have to make proper measurements.
 
If you conduct this experiment you will feel that you will not experience much force on your hand but the oscillating magnet
developes considerable energy due to repulsion.
Why are you comparing force to energy?

Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2015, 02:53:41 PM »

Observe the video closely.  Pendulum is not attracted by the shield.  When you cover the fixed magnet with shield, it (shield) cuts off the repelling flux with respect to pendulum hence the pendulum falls towards its mean position by gravity and moves further towards fixed magnet due to its momentum. At this point if shield is moved exposing the fixed magnet, pendulum will again get repelled away.
 
I have suggested the following points to eliminate the same problem :

1) Keep the fixed magnet very strong and moving magnet considerably weak because a weak magnet cannot get attracted
   towards shield from far distance.
 
2) Maintain some minimum distance betwee fixed magnet and pendulum magnet because when weak pendulummagnet comes closer
    to the fixed magnet (at maintained minimum distance)  it will not create much change in density of flux with  respect to shield 
    because  shield will be moving on a strong magnet and in a plane parallel to the pole of magnet.
Changing the reluctance gap of any magnet exchanges work.

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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2015, 02:53:41 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2015, 03:23:20 PM »

Observe the video closely.  Pendulum is not attracted by the shield.  When you cover the fixed magnet with shield, it (shield) cuts off the repelling flux with respect to pendulum hence the pendulum falls towards its mean position by gravity and moves further towards fixed magnet due to its momentum. At this point if shield is moved exposing the fixed magnet, pendulum will again get repelled away.
 
I have suggested the following points to eliminate the same problem :

1) Keep the fixed magnet very strong and moving magnet considerably weak because a weak magnet cannot get attracted
   towards shield from far distance.
 
2) Maintain some minimum distance betwee fixed magnet and pendulum magnet because when weak pendulummagnet comes closer
    to the fixed magnet (at maintained minimum distance)  it will not create much change in density of flux with  respect to shield 
    because  shield will be moving on a strong magnet and in a plane parallel to the pole of magnet.
The magnet is attracted by the shield, but the fixed magnet is repelling. The combination makes the repelling force weaker.


Vidar

Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2015, 04:03:18 PM »
If for some strange reason you were unable to detect the drag with your hands, then you should know that is not true.  Instead of using your hands, you can use a weight on a thread that goes over a pulley as the source of force to move the shield.  You can substitute unmagnetized iron or steel bars for the magnet and see how fast a weight pulls the shield to one side, and then repeat first with the magnet restored, and then with both the magnet and the pendulum.

I am not talking about friction drag.  When you keep two repelling poles close to each other and hold a shielding plate just above the gap, the shield will be pulled into the gap between two poles with tremendous force. If this drag is present in magnetic engine then your input energy will be equal to or more than output energy. You have to arrange things so as to eliminate this drag.  I am telling this drag is not present in the above setup.  Friction drag is also negligible due to point contact which I feel while conducting the experiment.  You will also feel it if you conduct the experiment.
 
I know that energy transfer involved is diferent in the above three circumstances said by you.
 

What do you think in that demonstration suggests overunity?
Free movement of shield (input) and tremendous energy gained by pendulum (output) due to repulsion shows overunity.
 

Why are you comparing force to energy?
I am not comparing force to energy.  When you experience less force on your hand, it means that Force X distance moved by shield = work input is less.   Whereas output energy is high due to strong repulsion between magnets.
 
 
 

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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2015, 04:03:18 PM »
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Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2015, 04:04:52 PM »
Changing the reluctance gap of any magnet exchanges work.

Can you please explain what this has to do with the experiment?
 
 

Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2015, 04:07:00 PM »
The magnet is attracted by the shield, but the fixed magnet is repelling. The combination makes the repelling force weaker.

Vidar

Fixed magnet will not repel the pendulum if it is totally covered by the shield. That is the basic idea of using the shield.  Even if stray flux escapes out of the shield and repels pendulum, it is not of any concern because this force will be neglible.
 
 
I don't know whether you people are trying to test my knowledge or showing your ignorance. (foolishness?)

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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2015, 04:07:00 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2015, 04:32:05 PM »

Fixed magnet will not repel the pendulum if it is totally covered by the shield. That is the basic idea of using the shield.  Even if stray flux escapes out of the shield and repels pendulum, it is not of any concern because this force will be neglible.
 
 
I don't know whether you people are trying to test my knowledge or showing your ignorance. (foolishness?)
You cannot shield magnetism, but you can make it take another path. In this case, parts of the magnetisn from the fixed magnet takes a short cut through the steel plate and directly back to the magnet again, so less magnetic field is repelling the pendulum magnet. The pendulum magnet also "see" this steel plate and will attract to it. Since the magnetic field is only partially guided through the steel plate, there is still surrounding field that still repels. There is not parallell magnetic flux between the magnet when they repel.
While the pendulum magnet and the fixed magnet is closer, there is now more magnetic flux goung through the steel plate, so it will take force to guide this steel plate away from the gap between those magnets. When you start removing the steel plate, the force will result in energy loss - force * distance is energy.
On the contrary, if the magnets was attracting, it would be more parallell magnetic "lines" between the magnets. If the steel plate was placed exactly in the middle between these magnets, it would take less effort to remove the steel plate. In fact, the steel plate would then repel from the magnets when it is outside the gap between the magnets - considered that those magnets keeps the gap.


I know this by experiments. I will shortly put a video on youtube demonstrating this. So you'll learn how magnetism work in your design.


Vidar.

Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2015, 07:33:47 PM »

Can you please explain what this has to do with the experiment?
You perform work moving your "shield". 

The nerves in your hands should be telling you that it is harder to move your "shield" back and forth when there is a stack of magnets on one side of the ball than a similar sized block of unmagnetized metal.

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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2015, 07:33:47 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2015, 10:18:06 PM »
Here is a video. Simple experiment showing that iron will be "hard" to pull away from the field between two opposing magnets.
This will take energy by the same amount as the gain in the pendulum magnet. However, I did not make the pendulum magnet, just two opposing magnets I try to remove the shield away from.


http://youtu.be/bcQfMGakGQc


Vidar

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2015, 11:01:43 PM »

This is a simple experiment without involving any cost. Why don't you build it as it is and verify it?
I can try. I have most of the hardware and tools to make one - just for educational purpose. The video above is highly simplyfied.


Vidar

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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2015, 11:01:43 PM »
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Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2015, 01:31:55 AM »
You perform work moving your "shield". 

The nerves in your hands should be telling you that it is harder to move your "shield" back and forth when there is a stack of magnets on one side of the ball than a similar sized block of unmagnetized metal.

My nerves are not telling me anything and if you try it your  nerves also will not tell   anything because you are not removing the shield out of the pole.  I am moving the shield within the surface of the pole without subjecting it to change in flux concentration.
 

Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2015, 01:35:45 AM »
Here is a video. Simple experiment showing that iron will be "hard" to pull away from the field between two opposing magnets.
This will take energy by the same amount as the gain in the pendulum magnet. However, I did not make the pendulum magnet, just two opposing magnets I try to remove the shield away from.

http://youtu.be/bcQfMGakGQc

 
Vidar Sir,
 
You are trying too hard to disprove my expreiment but out of the way!
 
Several times I have mentioned that you have to use a lengthy magnet having poles on faces and whether ball or shield has to move in a parallel plane on the lenghty magnet within the pole so that it will not be subjected to change in flux concentration.
 
If you try to move the steel or ball away from the pole of magnet it will naturally experience dragging force towards pole because pole will have maximum flux concentration.  What is strange in that?

After confirming the experiment only I have posted the experiment and you can see from the video that it is working fine. if not 
I would not have posted that experiment or myself would have told that it will not work.

I don't have any idea of misguiding or giving wrong information.

My request is please try the experiment as it is and if possible use a thicker shield.  You will get amazing results.

Wish you good luck!

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2015, 02:45:00 AM »
I can try. I have most of the hardware and tools to make one - just for educational purpose. The video above is highly simplyfied.


Vidar

Vidar:

For God's sake, please be careful...we all saw what happened to your garage when you experimented with the famous "Lead Out" unbalanced wheel theory.  I doubt that your insurance company will cover any additional damage..ha ha.

Bill

Offline MarkE

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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2015, 04:23:04 AM »

My nerves are not telling me anything and if you try it your  nerves also will not tell   anything because you are not removing the shield out of the pole.  I am moving the shield within the surface of the pole without subjecting it to change in flux concentration.
If the flux did not redistribute therefore changing its concentration then there would be no effect on the pendulum.  Would you like to try a different tall tale?

 

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