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Author Topic: Magnetic Engine Video  (Read 40343 times)

Offline vineet_kiran

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Magnetic Engine Video
« on: March 07, 2015, 01:57:05 PM »

Video at :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjlBXQ9ViEc&feature=youtu.be


1) Sorry for the quality of experiment.  I have used available junk materials.

2) Since I have used short pendulum arm,  the magnet arm (pendulum) is moving very fast and I am unable to  synchronize the movement 
    of shield with it by hand.  Hence pendulum is stopping in between.

3) If you use lengthy pendulum arm with strong magnets,  the arm moves through a longer distance and you will get    enough time to
    move the shield.

4) Since the shield is thin I have used a biasing magnet of opposite pole on the shield to absorb the flux of  stationary magnet.


Hope you will enjoy.


Earlier thread at http://www.overunity.com/11994/magnetic-engine/






Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Magnetic Engine Video
« on: March 07, 2015, 01:57:05 PM »

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2015, 04:38:45 PM »
Great work VK!!

This shows ( at least in appearance) to verify the working principal.

looking forward to further experiments from you on this subject.
mechanical linkage to synchronize the actions would be advantageous.
so you're not doing it by hand.

good job,

              Sm0ky2

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2015, 02:32:37 AM »
Nice video.  I am impressed with how well this concept works.  I am also surprised.

I too am looking forward to watching your progress.

Bill

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2015, 02:32:37 AM »
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Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2015, 05:53:59 AM »
Sm0ky2, pirate88179, thanks for your comments.  Making mechanical transmission is a difficult task which requires some acuurate
fabrication work and it is beyond my scope.
 
Meanwhile for anybody trying that experiment, my suggestion is, keep the moving magnet as weak as possible and make the fixed magnet very strong so that when weak magnet comes near the fixed repelling magnet, there will not be much variation in density of flux with respect to the shield.  You will get the required effective force between magnets because magnetic force depends on product of strength of both poles.
 
If moving magnet is stronger, then it causes greater variation in flux density with respect to the shield which in turn tries to hold the shield in the region of stronger flux density and you will experience a strong force while moving the shield.

 

Offline superhero

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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2015, 06:28:42 AM »
Why don't you seek assistance  from kick starter or quirky crowd funding sites.  you maybe able to further research and development to Materialize this concept.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2015, 06:28:42 AM »
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Offline shylo

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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2015, 11:27:57 PM »
There is enough drag just by introducing magnets, Don't add to it with mechanical( physical) connections.
It's like a flow that intensifies , control the flow , start small ,increase, then release.
If you can loop a mag track, is that perpetual motion? The track will wear out, and how long will the magnet last?
artv

Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2015, 02:35:08 AM »
There is enough drag just by introducing magnets, Don't add to it with mechanical( physical) connections.
It's like a flow that intensifies , control the flow , start small ,increase, then release.
If you can loop a mag track, is that perpetual motion? The track will wear out, and how long will the magnet last?
artv

There is no drag in the setup because shield is moving parallel to the pole on the surface of pole experiencing uniform flux throughout its path. There is only frictional force between moving ball and magnet's surface. This frictional force is very less
because of 'point contact' of ball with the magnet which can be further reduced by lubricating the surface.

The question here is not really perpetual motion but it is about overunity.  Is output enrgy more than supplied input energy?
To know the answer we have to make proper measurements.
 
If you conduct this experiment you will feel that you will not experience much force on your hand but the oscillating magnet
developes considerable energy due to repulsion.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2015, 02:35:08 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2015, 02:37:11 AM »
deleted double post

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2015, 02:48:17 AM »

There is no drag in the setup because shield is moving parallel to the pole on the surface of pole experiencing uniform flux throughout its path. There is only frictional force between moving ball and magnet's surface. This frictional force is very less
because of 'point contact' of ball with the magnet which can be further reduced by lubricating the surface.

The question here is not really perpetual motion but it is about overunity.  Is output enrgy more than supplied input energy?
To know the answer we have to make proper measurements.
 
If you conduct this experiment you will feel that you will not experience much force on your hand but the oscillating magnet
developes considerable energy due to repulsion.

I am very impressed with your experiment.  Normally, when I see "Mr Hand" come into play, I dismiss whatever is being attempted to be shown.  However, in your video, it makes one think that possibly  (I said possibly) one might be able to create a device that slides that plate in and out of the field in correct timing.  Maybe there is something here, maybe not but, your video really makes one think about the possibilities.

I am glad I was able to watch it.

Bill

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2015, 02:48:17 AM »
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Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2015, 04:35:40 AM »

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2015, 06:10:49 AM »
You are putting in a small amount of mechanical energy each cycle with your hand. When properly timed to the pendulum swing, some of this energy is stored in the mechanical resonance of the system and the amplitude of the swing can build up. You cannot continuously extract any more energy than you are continuously applying with your hand or the resonance and the amplitude will collapse. You are also experiencing losses due to friction and eddy current heating in the moving "shield", so with each cycle, the actual energy delivered to the pendulum is less than the energy you are applying with your hand during each cycle. This means that the system cannot be self-looped with no outside source of energy aiding the looping. It is true that you can extract all the energy stored in the pendulum at once, and this will be higher than the energy of a single input cycle of the hand moving the shield. Power is not energy and especially, peak power is not energy.

The general problem with magnetic "shields" is that they are strongly attracted to the magnet being "shielded". This means it requires work to move the shield into and out of the shielding position. Since the shields are also almost always metallic and electrical conductors, they will experience eddy currents and energy loss due to Joule heating with every movement of the shield.


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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2015, 06:10:49 AM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2015, 11:55:39 AM »
Video at :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjlBXQ9ViEc&feature=youtu.be


1) Sorry for the quality of experiment.  I have used available junk materials.

2) Since I have used short pendulum arm,  the magnet arm (pendulum) is moving very fast and I am unable to  synchronize the movement 
    of shield with it by hand.  Hence pendulum is stopping in between.

3) If you use lengthy pendulum arm with strong magnets,  the arm moves through a longer distance and you will get    enough time to
    move the shield.

4) Since the shield is thin I have used a biasing magnet of opposite pole on the shield to absorb the flux of  stationary magnet.


Hope you will enjoy.


Earlier thread at http://www.overunity.com/11994/magnetic-engine/
This principle isn't sustainable without input work.
The pendulum magnet approach because it is attracted to the steel. So therfor you must spend the same amount of force to remove (Force * remove = energy) the steel so the stator magnet can have more influence on the pendulum magnet. The energy causing the pendulum magnet and the steel plate to move is exact equal and opposite. No excess energy. It's not an assumption, but I know this from measuring experiments - which also happens to be correct in simulations as well.


Vidar

Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2015, 12:13:44 PM »
You are putting in a small amount of mechanical energy each cycle with your hand. When properly timed to the pendulum swing, some of this energy is stored in the mechanical resonance of the system and the amplitude of the swing can build up.

This explanation  is very well applicable for a normal mechanical pendulum executing simple hormonic motion. The magnetic pendulum used in the experiment doesnot work like a simple pendulum.  Its amplitude simply depends on the repulsive force experienced from fixed magnet.  I have made it like pendulum because building piston and flywheel arrangement is difficult for me.  As you can see from the video, its amplitude rises within 2-3 movements of the shield because when pendulum comes closer and closer to the fixed magnet,  it experiences greater and greater force since magnetic force is inversely proportional to square of the distance between poles and directly proportionalto product of strength of poles.

You cannot continuously extract any more energy than you are continuously applying with your hand or the resonance and the amplitude will collapse.

Amplitude of pendulum is collapsing in that experiment is only because of miss-timing. When pendulum moves towards fixed magnet, it should not experience repelling force (shield should cover the fixed magnet). If it experiences repelling force then its momentum and energy will be damped and it comes to halt. Shield should open only when pendulum comes to a predetermined closer position. Since I am operating the shield by hand and pendulum is moving very fast, I am unable to corrrectly time the movement of shield hence the pendulum is stopping.
 
You are also experiencing losses due to friction and eddy current heating in the moving "shield", so with each cycle, the actual energy delivered to the pendulum is less than the energy you are applying with your hand during each cycle. This means that the system cannot be self-looped with no outside source of energy aiding the looping. It is true that you can extract all the energy stored in the pendulum at once, and this will be higher than the energy of a single input cycle of the hand moving the shield. Power is not energy and especially, peak power is not energy.

This can be easily verified by keeping the magnet vertical and keeping a weight on shield. When shield moves down magnet deflects (repells) the pendulum mass (hence weight) to some height above its mean position.  By comparing the weight and height of deflection of pendulum  with weight and height of shield movement you can easily know the input and output energy in each cycle without considering power because time remains the same.

 
The general problem with magnetic "shields" is that they are strongly attracted to the magnet being "shielded". This means it requires work to move the shield into and out of the shielding position. Since the shields are also almost always metallic and electrical conductors, they will experience eddy currents and energy loss due to Joule heating with every movement of the shield.

Even if the shield is attracted strongly towards the magnet, it can be moved easily over the magnet by using steel ball roller since ball is held to the magnet by point contact. Frictional force depends on area of contact and also coefficient of friction between the contact surfaces.  You will experience it if you conduct the experiment.
 
Eddy currents and joule heating lossess are negligible at lower speeds and it is possible to operate this system at lower speeds and get higher energy output.
 
Thanks for applying thought on this experiment.
 
Regards,
 
Vineet.K.
 
 
 

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2015, 01:08:14 PM »
@Vineet,


You can make this experiment completely "hands free", and very simple.


On the pendulum rod close to the hub you can place a shield that covers the fixed magnet when the pendulum magnet is farthest away. This will cause this magnet to approach the fixed magnet again.
If the pendulum increase flucuations by itself (What I strongly believe will not) you have proved your design.


Experiments done without any external influence will always be the most reilable ones. Then you will take away any possible doubt.


Vidar

Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: Magnetic Engine Video
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2015, 02:26:32 PM »
This principle isn't sustainable without input work.
The pendulum magnet approach because it is attracted to the steel. So therfor you must spend the same amount of force to remove (Force * remove = energy) the steel so the stator magnet can have more influence on the pendulum magnet. The energy causing the pendulum magnet and the steel plate to move is exact equal and opposite. No excess energy. It's not an assumption, but I know this from measuring experiments - which also happens to be correct in simulations as well.
Vidar

Observe the video closely.  Pendulum is not attracted by the shield.  When you cover the fixed magnet with shield, it (shield) cuts off the repelling flux with respect to pendulum hence the pendulum falls towards its mean position by gravity and moves further towards fixed magnet due to its momentum. At this point if shield is moved exposing the fixed magnet, pendulum will again get repelled away.
 
I have suggested the following points to eliminate the same problem :

1) Keep the fixed magnet very strong and moving magnet considerably weak because a weak magnet cannot get attracted
   towards shield from far distance.
 
2) Maintain some minimum distance betwee fixed magnet and pendulum magnet because when weak pendulummagnet comes closer
    to the fixed magnet (at maintained minimum distance)  it will not create much change in density of flux with  respect to shield 
    because  shield will be moving on a strong magnet and in a plane parallel to the pole of magnet.
 
 
 
 

 

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