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Discussion board help and admin topics => What is Over Unity and Free Energy => Topic started by: FatBird on March 06, 2015, 05:22:45 PM

Title: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: FatBird on March 06, 2015, 05:22:45 PM
New Post of Free Juice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgz_m76rN0M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgz_m76rN0M)
                                                                                                                   .
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: MarkE on March 06, 2015, 07:19:12 PM
Wasif's fake presentations were thoroughly debunked when first published.  Why bring them back now?
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: ramset on March 06, 2015, 07:57:51 PM
Fatbird
Is this fellow doing more Demonstrations ?


@Mark E
by fake presentations being thoroughly debunked you mean someone actually did an onsite investigation?

Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: MarkE on March 06, 2015, 08:49:21 PM
Fatbird
Is this fellow doing more Demonstrations ?


@Mark E
by fake presentations being thoroughly debunked you mean someone actually did an onsite investigation?
The presentations were so bad that Wasif's fakery was obvious in his hapless videos.

Speaking of fakes:  What is your position now that GDS admits on their web site that water cannot power their:  "water powered generator"?
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: TinselKoala on March 06, 2015, 09:14:07 PM
@ramset:
Don't you remember my analysis of the early video, where he showed a spring coupling the "Magnet motor" to the "Generator" ? The spring that _tightened up_ when the thing was in operation, showing unequivocally that the "Generator" was actually driving the "Magnet motor" rather than the other way around ?

Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: ramset on March 06, 2015, 09:21:39 PM
Mark E
So do you offer a discount for Crystal ball or remote viewing
unsolicited evaluations ? is that sort of like Dowsing ..
an acquired skill where you can sentence a man from afar
with out ever having spoken or corresponded in any way
whatsoever...!


I don't share your Faith ,I would like to see if Wasif has more to add ?
if not ..?
So be it


Water as fuel.....Water as Fuel ..
has a nice ring to it.


One of your very good friends will be rubbing Errhh sharing something along those
lines very shortly.
as far as GDS is concerned I understand that working with investors is something
which you do for a living ,Odd to hang around an Open source forum RELENTLESSLY soliciting interest in these GDS type things ,I thought "Ninks" position Odd also [makes his fortune helping inventors get patents]

I suppose its just another day at work???

But as inappropriate as I might feel all this behavior is in an open source forum
{do to the obvious stifling effect it would have on sharing amoungst wolves]


your right, its a public place and if people come here to take and run..
not much we can do about that..it is after all open source ,or as Armcortex would
say "a suckers" forum.


gives a nice warm fuzzy feeling



Chet
Ps
Yes Tinsel I do remember seeing that and it does Jump right in your face,however
I asked FatBird if there was more info on this??
the shakey dance his rig makes when getting the load is interesting to me.
But to be clear I'm not endorsing this claim ,just curious if the inventor is
sharing more of his work?
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: TinselKoala on March 06, 2015, 09:56:42 PM
New Post of Free Juice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgz_m76rN0M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgz_m76rN0M)
                                                                                                                   .

Not new at all. Posted to YouTube a year ago.
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: MarkE on March 06, 2015, 10:48:46 PM
Mark E
So do you offer a discount for Crystal ball or remote viewing
unsolicited evaluations ?
LOL, I offer opinions based on what I observe. And I, like many others observed far more than enough in Wasif Kaloon's hapless videos to determine that his claims were false.
Quote

 is that sort of like Dowsing ..
an acquired skill where you can sentence a man from afar
with out ever having spoken or corresponded in any way
whatsoever...!
Here you suggest that no observations were made.  Such a suggestion is wrong.
Quote


I don't share your Faith ,I would like to see if Wasif has more to add ?
if not ..?
So be it
Wasif haplessly attempted to defend his first video by publishing additional bad fakery.
Quote


Water as fuel.....Water as Fuel ..
has a nice ring to it.
Too bad it doesn't have any reality to it.
Quote


One of your very good friends will be rubbing Errhh sharing something along those
lines very shortly.
Yes, that is the siren song of fools and scammers:  "Tomorrow, tomorrow, my miracle will work tomorrow..."
Quote

as far as GDS is concerned I understand that working with investors is something
which you do for a living ,Odd to hang around an Open source forum RELENTLESSLY soliciting interest in these GDS type things ,I thought "Ninks" position Odd also [makes his fortune helping inventors get patents]

I suppose its just another day at work???
Trying to cast aspersions on me does not answer the question Chet.  Now that GDS admits that water cannot power their generator, what do you think about their prior claims that they possessed and were offering for sale a:  "water powered generator"?  What do you think about that particularly in light of the fact that they have shown nothing that actually works months after they claimed to possess at least ten working units, and months after they claimed they would have volume inventory on hand for sale?
Quote

But as inappropriate as I might feel all this behavior is in an open source forum
{do to the obvious stifling effect it would have on sharing amoungst wolves]


your right, its a public place and if people come here to take and run..
not much we can do about that..it is after all open source ,or as Armcortex would
say "a suckers" forum.


gives a nice warm fuzzy feeling



Chet
Ps
Yes Tinsel I do remember seeing that and it does Jump right in your face,however
I asked FatBird if there was more info on this??
the shakey dance his rig makes when getting the load is interesting to me.
But to be clear I'm not endorsing this claim ,just curious if the inventor is
sharing more of his work?
You mean more of his BS claims.
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: ramset on March 06, 2015, 11:44:50 PM
Mark E
Quote
 fake presentations being thoroughly debunked
end quote


No Mark E I just wanted to understand what type of investigations your investor customers should expect for your 10 percent fee.


I actually thought you must have at least spoken with the inventor
or seen the device in person....maybe pulled out a meter or two ??


none of the above...and we get "" fake presentations thoroughly debunked ""


perhaps the quality issue is reflected in the "freebee" status


Okey Dokey then.....
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: MarkE on March 06, 2015, 11:56:02 PM
Mark E
Quote
 fake presentations being thoroughly debunked
end quote


No Mark E I just wanted to understand what type of investigations your investor customers should expect for your 10 percent fee.


I actually thought you must have at least spoken with the inventor
or seen the device in person....maybe pulled out a meter or two ??
In the case of the hapless fakes put forth by Wasif Kaloon no such actions were necessary to establish his fakery.
Quote


none of the above...and we get "" fake presentations thoroughly debunked ""
That's right because Wasif himself put ample evidence in the video.
Quote


perhaps the quality issue is reflected in the "freebee" status


Okey Dokey then.....
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: MileHigh on March 07, 2015, 12:14:06 AM
Who read comic books in the 1960s?

When's the last time you saw a commercially-bought standing fan where the power cord was amateurishly attached to the motor?

When is the last time you saw an "instant on" motor generator with near-instantaneous overcoming of the rotational inertia of the setup?
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: ramset on March 07, 2015, 12:35:50 AM
Well
I suppose since you like to talk..we should chat some more ..
See i have an opinion here,it has to do with Boundaries and where some men
will go and others won't .


 Integrity and character ..men that would Judge and condemn so frivolously
usually carry this trait over to other aspects of their lives ,its an entitlement of sorts
they feel entitled to this _privilege_


No way Wasif is gonna be able to retort ,he's some poor fellow in India or Pakistan
I can treat him as I please .
sort of the same way similar men treat the Passive Christian with Taunts and
snickers yet would surely think thrice about similar treatment of Allah.


a persons actions give us clues to their character ,and integrity ..the standards they use to measure their fellow man can usually be reflected throughout there lives.


And here we find ourselves on an open source forum ,in your case pretty much 24/7
you being a man that works hand in hand with investors.

and here [hypothetically] we suddenly have some "Kid" sharing what could be an OU device
or circuit with potential..
like taking Candy from a baby.....Huh ?


How else should we measure you Mark E??
should we judge you by your Look??
a feel?
intuition??


Judgement should not be thrown around so frivolously ..
men have their rights to proper investigation..if they refuse [GDS]
or give other reason..perhaps then we can have opinions .but they should
never be so final with out proper investigation ...


 
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: MarkE on March 07, 2015, 01:14:45 AM
Well
I suppose since you like to talk..we should chat some more ..
See i have an opinion here,it has to do with Boundaries and where some men
will go and others won't .


 Integrity and character ..men that would Judge and condemn so frivolously
usually carry this trait over to other aspects of their lives ,its an entitlement of sorts
they feel entitled to this _privilege_
Gee, you dismiss the debunks that took place a year ago and yet you offer not one single cogent criticism of those analyses.  So it would seem it is you who if capriciously condemning without evaluating evidence.  Go ahead Chet put forward your best arguments for Wasif Kaloon's claims and then go compare those arguments to the one year old discussion.  You'll do that because you are a person of "integrity and character" won't you?  Or will you just bleat on about how you are unable to evaluate Kaloon's blatant and obvious fakery without ever discussing the observations that were discussed at length?
Quote





No way Wasif is gonna be able to retort ,he's some poor fellow in India or Pakistan
I can treat him as I please .
sort of the same way similar men treat the Passive Christian with Taunts and
snickers yet would surely think thrice about similar treatment of Allah.
You're off in the bushes there Chet.  Kaloon's scam was debunked using his own best evidence.  The only person pitching faith and belief in fantastical things here is you.
Quote


a persons actions give us clues to their character ,and integrity ..the standards they use to measure their fellow man can usually be reflected throughout there lives.
They certainly do.  You might want to hold a mirror up to yourself and evaluate your own behavior. 
Quote


And here we find ourselves on an open source forum ,in your case pretty much 24/7
and here we have suddenly some "Kid" sharing what could be an OU device
or circuit with potential..
No, we find some person promoting his scam and you offering support for that scam despite the overwhelming evidence that has already exposed it for what it is.
Quote
like taking Candy from a baby.....Huh ?
When it comes to extraordinary claims, the odds are against them.  One could easily simply declare them all to be false without bothering to consider the claims or evidence and still have a very high probability of being correct.  However, that is not what has happened here.  What has happened is that the claimant put forth their best evidence and that evidence refuted their claims.  For reasons of your own, you have chosen to ignore those analyses and instead suggest that this debunked scam may actually be a working free energy machine.
Quote


How else should we measure you Mark E??
should we judge you by your Look??
a feel?
intuition??
Judge me as you should judge anyone else:  by how my actions and speech comport with reality.  You can apply a similar yard stick to yourself and see how you fare.
Quote


Judgement should not be thrown around so frivolously ..
men have their rights to proper investigation..if they refuse [GDS]
or give other reason..perhaps then we can have opinions .but they should
never be so final with out proper investigation ...
And yet you freely judge me and others here negatively when we have taken the time and effort to examine and debunk the stupid and obvious scams that you continue to support.  Do you think that there is honor in promoting crooks?
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: ramset on March 07, 2015, 01:33:21 AM
I support a mans right to a fair investigation prior to calling him a thief
or a crook.
I support nothing more nothing less.


if you wish to call it the right to a fair trial .so be it.
anything else is unacceptable.


if you start to Mix the garbage of assumption or speculation into an investigation
you get out what you put in... garbage .


and if you convict a man in absentia with no actual facts to back up your claim
at the very least you are unfair and at the very most criminal.


you give no thought to this type behavior and it shows how truly thoughtless you can be. for such policies have lead to very horrible consequences in our world.


have a good night! 8)
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: MarkE on March 07, 2015, 02:12:53 AM
I support a mans right to a fair investigation prior to calling him a thief
or a crook.
I support nothing more nothing less.
Wasif Kaloon and Greg Potter's claims have both been investigated.  Their claims are false.  You have not taken task to any of the evidence.
Quote


if you wish to call it the right to a fair trial .so be it.
anything else is unacceptable.
So declares the one and only head in sand Chet.[qutoe]


if you start to Mix the garbage of assumption or speculation into an investigation
you get out what you put in... garbage .[/qutoe]The facts used to reach to the correct conclusions on both of these parties have been discussed at length.  You have not offered any factual rebuttal.
Quote


and if you convict a man in absentia with no actual facts to back up your claim
at the very least you are unfair and at the very most criminal.
Since that is not what has happened, your assertion is moot.
Quote


you give no thought to this type behavior and it shows how truly thoughtless you can be. for such policies have lead to very horrible consequences in our world.
Sure Chet, using fact and reason to expose crooks is a terrible crime in your world. Whereas promoting crooks and their phony claims is honorable.  That's quite an upside-down view of ethics that you espouse.
Quote


have a good night! 8)
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: ramset on March 07, 2015, 02:42:16 AM
Mark E
Quote
Wasif Kaloon and Greg Potter's claims have both been investigated.
------------------
I did not know that !


When and by whom?
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: MarkE on March 07, 2015, 06:04:29 AM
Mark E
Quote
Wasif Kaloon and Greg Potter's claims have both been investigated.
------------------
I did not know that !


When and by whom?
Multiple people including TK and myself.  Go read the threads form a year ago when he first tried to foist his fraud on the public.
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: ramset on March 07, 2015, 10:05:51 AM
reply Number 18

So no one ever spoke with the inventor, no one even knows of anyone that ever spoke with the inventor ,no interaction in any way shape or form with the
inventor or his invention has ever happened here...EVER ?
nothing
Zilch
Nada
ZERO
This is your case for a thorough debunking ,on which you an anonymous man call a known Man a thief and a liar..

I would truly say I hope you never get your Big dream of bigger government
A more Fascist position I could not imagine.
and to be clear unlike yourself I do not believe in big Government with no accountability or do process of law and unlike yourself I do not solicit work on an open source free energy forum from free energy investors.
I have no Dog in your Hunt

 ** nor do I endorse bold claims which have not been investigated,

*** never have never will.



see also reply number 18 here,  line number 16- 17
http://www.overunity.com/15585/-magnet-motor-drives-generator-for-free-juice/msg441315/#msg441315 (http://www.overunity.com/15585/-magnet-motor-drives-generator-for-free-juice/msg441315/#msg441315)
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: MarkE on March 07, 2015, 05:51:03 PM
reply Number 18

So no one ever spoke with the inventor, no one even knows of anyone that ever spoke with the inventor ,no interaction in any way shape or form with the
inventor or his invention has ever happened here...EVER ?
nothing
Zilch
Nada
ZERO
This is your case for a thorough debunking ,on which you an anonymous man call a known Man a thief and a liar..
You have not been paying attention.  A number of people corresponded with the goof Wasif Kaloon despite the fact that his demonstrations alone clearly demonstrated his fakery.
Quote

I would truly say I hope you never get your Big dream of bigger government
Strawman.
Quote
A more Fascist position I could not imagine.
Strawman.
Quote
and to be clear unlike yourself I do not believe in big Government with no accountability or do process of law and unlike yourself I do not solicit work on an open source free energy forum from free energy investors.
Strawman.
Quote
I have no Dog in your Hunt
No, you promote exposed charlatans, and have the audacity to claim that promotion is morally superior to pointing out their fraud.  Do you also promote Nigerian 419 scams?  You never know Chet, you haven't been to Holland to see if that security case really exists or not.
Quote

 ** nor do I endorse bold claims which have not been investigated,
Your posts say otherwise.
Quote

*** never have never will.
Again, you should reread your posts.
Quote



see also reply number 18 here,  line number 16- 17
http://www.overunity.com/15585/-magnet-motor-drives-generator-for-free-juice/msg441315/#msg441315 (http://www.overunity.com/15585/-magnet-motor-drives-generator-for-free-juice/msg441315/#msg441315)
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: tinman on March 08, 2015, 12:39:40 AM

Quote chet- Water as fuel.....Water as Fuel ..
has a nice ring to it.
Quote
Too bad it doesn't have any reality to it.
Now would be a good time to reply with caution Mark.

"
Quote
Tomorrow, tomorrow, my miracle will work tomorrow..."
Or-My free time is very limited,and i will show my results as soon as i can?.

Definitions of fuel.
1.
Combustible matter used to maintain fire, as coal, wood, oil, or gas, in order to create heat or power
2.
something that gives nourishment

3.
An energy source for engines, power plants, or reactors:

4.
something that sustains or encourages; stimulant:
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: MarkE on March 08, 2015, 12:46:12 AM
Quote chet- Water as fuel.....Water as Fuel ..
has a nice ring to it.Now would be a good time to reply with caution Mark.
Except that water is the ash of the oxidation-reduction reaction between H2 and O2.  The chemical energy is gone, kaput, used up, gone to parrot heaven.
Quote

"Or-My free time is very limited,and i will show my results as soon as i can?.
Or as in the common game of charlatans and swindlers:  "We are really close.  Your dollars today will be rewarded later.  Trust me as I have trusted you with my "secrets"."
Quote

Definitions of fuel.
1.
Combustible matter used to maintain fire, as coal, wood, oil, or gas, in order to create heat or power
2.
something that gives nourishment

3.
An energy source for engines, power plants, or reactors:

4.
something that sustains or encourages; stimulant:
Water does not fit any of those definitions.   Even Greg Potter acknowledges that water does not supply energy in his contraption:
Quote
Quote
As you know, it is impossible to create energy out of 4 gallons of water.
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: FatBird on March 08, 2015, 12:48:53 AM
@ Ramset

Your rebuttal Posts are VERY WELL ARTICULATED, & I totally agree.

In fact, I think you are speaking for 95% of the people here that want to see "egotistical Nobody's"
BANNED so they stop BAD MOUTHING & SLANDERING other inventors & their inventions.

In fact, if I were the Administrator here, I would BAN THEM in a New York minute!
                                                                                                                         .
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: MarkE on March 08, 2015, 12:54:25 AM
@ Ramset

Your rebuttal Posts are VERY WELL ARTICULATED, & I totally agree.

In fact, I think you are speaking for 95% of the people here that want to see
the truth & NOT BAD MOUTH & SLANDER other inventors, ideas & their inventions.
                                                                                                                         .
Slander requires that one make false defamatory claims.  You cannot establish falsity.  Ergo:  You cannot establish slander.  Greg Potter put a couple of motors in a box with a water tank and more importantly a couple of lead acid batteries powering off the shelf DC - AC inverters.  He now admits the obvious:  water does not and cannot power his "water powered generators".  Ergo his prior claims to "water powered generators" are false.

Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: tinman on March 08, 2015, 01:02:55 AM
Except that water is the ash of the oxidation-reduction reaction between H2 and O2.  The chemical energy is gone, kaput, used up, gone to parrot heaven.Or as in the common game of charlatans and swindlers:  "We are really close.  Your dollars today will be rewarded later.  Trust me as I have trusted you with my "secrets"."Water does not fit any of those definitions.   Even Greg Potter acknowledges that water does not supply energy in his contraption:
Marke
As most others are,you to are stuck in the simpelton meanings of fuel.

 Another def of fuel-->A substance that produces useful energy when it undergoes a chemical or nuclear reaction.

To say that water is an ash is incorrect,as an ash is a depleted fuel source,where water is a fuel in a stable state-->and is the only fuel that can be recycled over and over to be used again. The proof that water(as stated by clear definition)produces useful energy is clearly seen in any ICE when a water injection system is added.
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 08, 2015, 02:27:26 AM
Marke
As most others are,you to are stuck in the simpelton meanings of fuel.

 Another def of fuel-->A substance that produces useful energy when it undergoes a chemical or nuclear reaction.

To say that water is an ash is incorrect,as an ash is a depleted fuel source,where water is a fuel in a stable state-->and is the only fuel that can be recycled over and over to be used again. The proof that water(as stated by clear definition)produces useful energy is clearly seen in any ICE when a water injection system is added.

Tinman:

Please correct me if I am wrong but water injection on an ICE is used mainly to effectively increase the octane of the fuel (raising its flash point) to stop valve knocking at a given compression ratio and timing.  The water is not being split, it just cools the combustion chamber enough to raise the flash point.  Maybe some of it is turned into steam?  I am not sure about that but I do not think the water itself is being burned in this case.

Bill
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: MarkE on March 08, 2015, 02:28:09 AM
Marke
As most others are,you to are stuck in the simpelton meanings of fuel.

 Another def of fuel-->A substance that produces useful energy when it undergoes a chemical or nuclear reaction.
A fuel is a substance that in the course of a reaction changes into a second substance plus released energy.  That applies to both chemical and nuclear reactions.
Quote

To say that water is an ash is incorrect,as an ash is a depleted fuel source,
No, there are two usages of ash:  the formal definition used by chemists, which is mineral residue when all other components have been driven and/or burned off by heat, and the more common usage of the end product after a combustion process.
Quote
  where water is a fuel in a stable state-->and is the only fuel that can be recycled over and over to be used again.
Water cannot be reused as fuel.  It has no chemical energy to give.  Energy may be used to hydrolyze water generating H2 fuel, and O2 oxidizer.
Quote
The proof that water(as stated by clear definition)produces useful energy is clearly seen in any ICE when a water injection system is added.
No, that is incorrect.  Water injection systems can have thermodynamic benefits that result in more efficient use of the chemical energy in the gasoline fuel.  But the water is not converted into a second substance while releasing energy into the system as the gasoline fuel is.  Water absorbs energy in the phase change to vapor (steam) and releases energy as that vapor expands and cools.   Ultimately, every microgram of water injected ultimately leaves the cylinder still as H2O.
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: Jimboot on March 08, 2015, 03:05:40 AM
You have not been paying attention.  A number of people corresponded with the goof Wasif Kaloon despite the fact that his demonstrations alone clearly demonstrated his fakery.
Well I was one of those that corresponded with him. Hardly an investigation though. We were all met with pretty much the same response. Come over and investigate if you are an engineer. So whilst the vids could easily be explained away I think he is right when he asserts there has been no thorough investigation of the claims published.As we say over here though, if it quacks like a duck.....
[size=78%]
[/size]
[size=78%] If someone is incorrect or delusional it doesn't necessarily make them a crook. [/size]
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: tinman on March 08, 2015, 04:49:56 AM
Tinman:

Please correct me if I am wrong but water injection on an ICE is used mainly to effectively increase the octane of the fuel (raising its flash point) to stop valve knocking at a given compression ratio and timing.  The water is not being split, it just cools the combustion chamber enough to raise the flash point.  Maybe some of it is turned into steam?  I am not sure about that but I do not think the water itself is being burned in this case.

Bill
Bill
Water cannot be burned full stop-regardless of what it may go through. Having to burn something in order for it to be classed as a fuel is incorrect. Fuel is a substance that produces a force/and or energy. As we cannot create energy,then the energy already existed in the fuel,so only a transformation takes place. Water to steam is such a transformation,but the steam is still water,just small particles.

Here is the experiment i started out with some 3 years ago to get to where i am today.This is one anyone can carry out that has some sort of mechanical skills.For this we will use an !off the shelf! catalyst,and an !off the shelf! generator of your liking--> i used a 1200 watt generator with a 4 stroke IEC.

First you pick a load that will be constant throughout the testing-->i used a 500 watt flood light,and had an AC volt meter across that light to make sure the voltage remains constant. A pre run of the generator to get it up to running teperature is also a good idea.

Test 1-You place 1/2 ltr of standard fuel into the tank(i swapped the original tank out for a 1 ltr tank.
Then run the generator with load until the fuel has been used,recording the teperature of the engine during the run,and the voltage across the load. The voltage should remain constant,as the generator is governed to run at a fixed RPM. Record run time,and engine temp.

Test 2.
Now you will need to run the generator with a catalyst mixed in with the fuel at a 4:1 ratio,but maintain the total liquid amount at 1/2 ltr. So for this test i used 400ml of gasoline,and 100ml of metholated spirits-->as it mixes both with gasoline and water. You then run test 1 again,and record run time and engine teperature.

Test 3
You now mix your fuel(the 4:1 gasoline/metho mix),BUT you add 100 ml of water to the metholated spirits first-->before adding it to the gasoline. You then run your test again,recording run time and engine teperature. The voltage across the load will remain the same due to the engine speed being governed-->but keep an eye on it anyway.

My results of that test as recoreded in my log's.

Test 1
Run time-27 minutes,38 seconds-->engine full stop.
Engine temperature at cylinder-142*C
Load 500 watts.

Test 2
Run time-25 minutes,22 seconds-->engine full stop
Engine temperature at cylinder-138*C
Load 500 watts

Test 3

Run time-36 minutes,42 second's-->engine full stop.
Load 500 watts
Engine temperature at cylinder-144*C

So from this we ask-->where did the energy come from to gain a longer run time,and a higher engine teperature?.
Title: E
Post by: CANGAS on March 08, 2015, 04:59:26 AM


Quote
Please correct me if I am wrong

There is not enough time for all of that. But I'll cover this issue at this moment.


Quote
but water injection on an ICE is used mainly to effectively increase the octane of the fuel (raising its flash point)

If you had ever taken the time to learn enough about ICEs, you would have left out the word "mainly".


Quote
to stop valve knocking

WTF is "valve knocking"? "valve knocking"?? I first began to learn about ICEs in the stereotypical American way of being a car fanatic in the '50s when I was a teenager. To this day, I have never heard anybody (that knows what they are talking about)  say "valve knock". Valves don't "knock", they clatter when their clearance to the rocker arm is wrong. Valve clatter has absolutely nothing to do with combustion chamber temperature or anything related to it, that water injection has anything to do with.


Quote
at a given compression ratio and timing.

Valves don't knock no matter what the compression and timing are.


Quote
The water is not being split,

I'm proud of you. You got a correct guess here.


Quote
it just cools the combustion chamber enough to raise the flash point.

In your obvious gross ignorance you have neglected to write of the most notorious benefits; cooling the valve heads so they don't snap off of their stems, and, cooling the piston tops so they don't get a hole melted through them.  ::)

 Depending on the particular circumstances, the combustion chamber temperature can range from maybe 700 F. to well over 1,000 F.  Long ago and far away I was performing a science experiment in which I drove my 59 Chrysler 300E  at 110MPH and then punched it. 120 in what seemed like no time flat. Then I noticed the temp gauge was going down. A blown out freeze plug. Looking under the hood showed the stock cast iron exhaust manifolds glowing red hot. (It was about 10 in the evening). Tell me, Sherlock, the temp. of red hot iron.

In WW2 fighter aircraft water injection was used to COOL the engine parts to avoid melting and related destruction during use of WEP especially during dire emergencies in dogfights, but also to enable quicker take offs at higher power when bombed up.


Quote
I am not sure about that but I do not think the water itself is being burned in this case.

You should be SURE. You SURE write boldly about winning IQ contests, for an amateur who doesn't even know enough basic chemistry to KNOW for certain that their is no way that water injection water can possibility be spoken of as BURNING in an ICE. 



Quote
Bill


Bill, you obviously don't know your shine from your Shitola, but you DO have guts.




CANGAS 151
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: TinselKoala on March 08, 2015, 05:01:10 AM
When his own video shows without a doubt that it is the "generator" driving the "magnet motor" instead of the other way around, what more "proof" or investigation do you need?

This was all covered a year ago, when the "new" video in the OP was actually posted to YT.

Title: Re: E
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 08, 2015, 05:26:01 AM
There is not enough time for all of that. But I'll cover this issue at this moment.


If you had ever taken the time to learn enough about ICEs, you would have left out the word "mainly".


WTF is "valve knocking"? "valve knocking"?? I first began to learn about ICEs in the stereotypical American way of being a car fanatic in the '50s when I was a teenager. To this day, I have never heard anybody (that knows what they are talking about)  say "valve knock". Valves don't "knock", they clatter when their clearance to the rocker arm is wrong. Valve clatter has absolutely nothing to do with combustion chamber temperature or anything related to it, that water injection has anything to do with.


Valves don't knock no matter what the compression and timing are.


I'm proud of you. You got a correct guess here.


In your obvious gross ignorance you have neglected to write of the most notorious benefits; cooling the valve heads so they don't snap off of their stems, and, cooling the piston tops so they don't get a hole melted through them.  ::)

 Depending on the particular circumstances, the combustion chamber temperature can range from maybe 700 F. to well over 1,000 F.  Long ago and far away I was performing a science experiment in which I drove my 59 Chrysler 300E  at 110MPH and then punched it. 120 in what seemed like no time flat. Then I noticed the temp gauge was going down. A blown out freeze plug. Looking under the hood showed the stock cast iron exhaust manifolds glowing red hot. (It was about 10 in the evening). Tell me, Sherlock, the temp. of red hot iron.

In WW2 fighter aircraft water injection was used to COOL the engine parts to avoid melting and related destruction during use of WEP especially during dire emergencies in dogfights, but also to enable quicker take offs at higher power when bombed up.


You should be SURE. You SURE write boldly about winning IQ contests, for an amateur who doesn't even know enough basic chemistry to KNOW for certain that their is no way that water injection water can possibility be spoken of as BURNING in an ICE. 




Bill, you obviously don't know your shine from your Shitola, but you DO have guts.




CANGAS 151

Well, you have once again proven that you know nothing about the subject being discussed here.  Valve knock, valve clatter...what planet are you from?  This is caused by pre-ignition of the fuel in the combustion chamber which IS affected by octane of the fuel (flash point) and valve timing.

Go read a few books on gasoline engines and get back to me. 

Better yet, just get lost as your ignorance is embarrassing you beyond belief here.

Bill

What was wrong with your car that it went so slow?  My Plymouth would easily top 150.  Of course, it had 500 HP.  You must have been driving your Grandmother's car.
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: CANGAS on March 08, 2015, 05:37:40 AM
Bill
Water cannot be burned full stop-regardless of what it may go through. Having to burn something in order for it to be classed as a fuel is incorrect. Fuel is a substance that produces a force/and or energy. As we cannot create energy,then the energy already existed in the fuel,so only a transformation takes place. Water to steam is such a transformation,but the steam is still water,just small particles.

Here is the experiment i started out with some 3 years ago to get to where i am today.This is one anyone can carry out that has some sort of mechanical skills.For this we will use an !off the shelf! catalyst,and an !off the shelf! generator of your liking--> i used a 1200 watt generator with a 4 stroke IEC.

First you pick a load that will be constant throughout the testing-->i used a 500 watt flood light,and had an AC volt meter across that light to make sure the voltage remains constant. A pre run of the generator to get it up to running teperature is also a good idea.

Test 1-You place 1/2 ltr of standard fuel into the tank(i swapped the original tank out for a 1 ltr tank.
Then run the generator with load until the fuel has been used,recording the teperature of the engine during the run,and the voltage across the load. The voltage should remain constant,as the generator is governed to run at a fixed RPM. Record run time,and engine temp.

Test 2.
Now you will need to run the generator with a catalyst mixed in with the fuel at a 4:1 ratio,but maintain the total liquid amount at 1/2 ltr. So for this test i used 400ml of gasoline,and 100ml of metholated spirits-->as it mixes both with gasoline and water. You then run test 1 again,and record run time and engine teperature.

Test 3
You now mix your fuel(the 4:1 gasoline/metho mix),BUT you add 100 ml of water to the metholated spirits first-->before adding it to the gasoline. You then run your test again,recording run time and engine teperature. The voltage across the load will remain the same due to the engine speed being governed-->but keep an eye on it anyway.

My results of that test as recoreded in my log's.

Test 1
Run time-27 minutes,38 seconds-->engine full stop.
Engine temperature at cylinder-142*C
Load 500 watts.

Test 2
Run time-25 minutes,22 seconds-->engine full stop
Engine temperature at cylinder-138*C
Load 500 watts

Test 3

Run time-36 minutes,42 second's-->engine full stop.
Load 500 watts
Engine temperature at cylinder-144*C

So from this we ask-->where did the energy come from to gain a longer run time,and a higher engine teperature?.


Where did it come from? The hypothesis is not original from me, but, I have read : the water injection droplets, or, micro-droplets provide a surface upon which gasoline/methanol/whatever fuel condenses, thus providing a greater area for contact with oxygen molecules and the contact with the flame-front, therefore enabling faster and more complete ignition.

It is not really an apparition of mysterious new energy, but, rather, less energy is wasted than in the normal combustion. Less fuel is left unburned, and, ignition timing can be raised to a more efficient point, less advanced,  nearer TDC.. 

The stereotypical piston engine ICE is phenomenally inefficient. Raising the efficiency of one to over 50% will look like a miracle. Such a technology, fully developed, reliable and repeatable, could be a boon marketed to the ICE industry and consumers.


CANGAS 152
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: tinman on March 08, 2015, 06:19:07 AM

Where did it come from? The hypothesis is not original from me, but, I have read : the water injection droplets, or, micro-droplets provide a surface upon which gasoline/methanol/whatever fuel condenses, thus providing a greater area for contact with oxygen molecules and the contact with the flame-front, therefore enabling faster and more complete ignition.

It is not really an apparition of mysterious new energy, but, rather, less energy is wasted than in the normal combustion. Less fuel is left unburned, and, ignition timing can be raised to a more efficient point, less advanced,  nearer TDC.. 

The stereotypical piston engine ICE is phenomenally inefficient. Raising the efficiency of one to over 50% will look like a miracle. Such a technology, fully developed, reliable and repeatable, could be a boon marketed to the ICE industry and consumers.


CANGAS 152
The ICE is close to 100% efficient at converting fuel into energy when heat is taken into account- minus the small loss in unburnt fuel that is emmited from the exaust.

Ralph Sarich's orbital engine exceeded 57% efficiency at converting fuel energy into mechanical energy. As i live close to where Sarich lived,i got to follow and see this engine run myself. It had a sound much like high performance motor cycle engine,and was quite small for the claimed power output. But like most things that would cost the big oil money,it was sold of in bit's and pieces to other companies around the world. The complete engine was never manufactured--> the big dollars won out in the end.
Title: Re: E
Post by: CANGAS on March 08, 2015, 06:19:24 AM
Well, you have once again proven that you know nothing about the subject being discussed here.  Valve knock, valve clatter...what planet are you from?  This is caused by pre-ignition of the fuel in the combustion chamber which IS affected by octane of the fuel (flash point) and valve timing.

Go read a few books on gasoline engines and get back to me. 

Better yet, just get lost as your ignorance is embarrassing you beyond belief here.

Bill


Biily, every word you post makes your general ignorance become more obvious.

In my 72 years I have read a damn lot of books about ICEs. And I have had a damn lot of actual hands-on experience with them.

Get back to you? As far as I'm concerned you can go to Hell in a basket, and I am not planning to make any charity visits.

Me get embarrassed by a punk like YOU?? Make me laugh. I've been insulted by real experts. You're an amateur.


Quote
What was wrong with your car that it went so slow?  My Plymouth would easily top 150.  Of course, it had 500 HP.  You must have been driving your Grandmother's car.

The fastest I ever drove that Chrysler was 135 with the pedal about halfway down. The handling was getting a little spooky and I had no motive to press my luck. It was in July and I had the AC on. Before I bored and stroked the 413 out to 512. My Chrysler would have chewed up your Punyouth and spit it out.

You have just about, now, proved yourself to be a poser, a 56 year old man with a mental age somewhat less than that. Your boasts about yo cah are what I would heard from my car buddies back in the 60s, giving you a mental age of 18 or 20.


One to beam up, Scotty
CANGAS 153
Title: Re: E
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 08, 2015, 06:30:44 AM

Your boasts about yo cah are what I would heard from my car buddies back in the 60s, giving you a mental age of 18 or 20.


One to beam up, Scotty
CANGAS 153

You were the one boasting about your Grandmother's car...I hope you fixed that broken gas pedal that only went half-way to the floor.  Of course, that would take some skills which it is obvious that you do not have.

By the way...what is a yo cah?  You must be from NY.  Ignorant and illiterate is no way to go through life...I suggest you try to learn something.

Even Tinman showed you that you were wrong about what you thought you knew.

Give it up, your ignorance is still embarrassing you.

Bill
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: tinman on March 08, 2015, 07:10:30 AM
Cangas is correct about valve knock-->there is no such thing as valves knocking. The only situation that can occure that creates valve noise(not loose tappets) is valve float. This is when the engines RPM exceeds that of which the valves can close before the next cycle for that valve starts. Rattle or knocking is caused by high temperatures,too higher compression for the octane rating for that fuel,or timing to far advanced.Stale fuel also dose you no favours.

Cangas
A standard ICE engine can be modified to achieve over that 50% efficieny you speak of,all you do is raise the compression ratio to very high(such as a diesel engine),and add water/catalist mix to the gasoline.You will see those guru's here on OU tell you all about what water is and how it reacts-->but none of them know what is taking place inside the cylinder of an ICE when the big bang takes place when useing water mixed with gasoline. The best they can do is quote text book physics,but no text book provides actual data to this situation. They will argue the point with you,even though you have a working modle,and all they have is books that are irrelevant to this situation.When you achieve results that far outway any fuel efficiency gain that could be had with water injection,they fall flat on there face. They simply dont know what happens to the water when it is subjected to extreem temperatures and pressures-->in combination to the chemical processes taking place at the time.
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: MarkE on March 08, 2015, 07:34:17 AM
Well I was one of those that corresponded with him. Hardly an investigation though. We were all met with pretty much the same response. Come over and investigate if you are an engineer. So whilst the vids could easily be explained away I think he is right when he asserts there has been no thorough investigation of the claims published.As we say over here though, if it quacks like a duck.....
[size=78%]
[/size]
[size=78%] If someone is incorrect or delusional it doesn't necessarily make them a crook. [/size]
The third videw had wires planted in the ground.  That was a direct attempt to deceive.  The first and second video had the motor function built into the "generator".  Again more direct attempts to deceive. 
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: CANGAS on March 08, 2015, 07:34:41 AM
Cangas is correct about valve knock-->there is no such thing as valves knocking. The only situation that can occure that creates valve noise(not loose tappets) is valve float. This is when the engines RPM exceeds that of which the valves can close before the next cycle for that valve starts. Rattle or knocking is caused by high temperatures,too higher compression for the octane rating for that fuel,or timing to far advanced.Stale fuel also dose you no favours.

Cangas
A standard ICE engine can be modified to achieve over that 50% efficieny you speak of,all you do is raise the compression ratio to very high(such as a diesel engine),and add water/catalist mix to the gasoline.You will see those guru's here on OU tell you all about what water is and how it reacts-->but none of them know what is taking place inside the cylinder of an ICE when the big bang takes place when useing water mixed with gasoline. The best they can do is quote text book physics,but no text book provides actual data to this situation. They will argue the point with you,even though you have a working modle,and all they have is books that are irrelevant to this situation.When you achi eve results that far outway any fuel efficiency gain that could be had with water injection,they fall flat on there face. They simply dont know what happens to the water when it is subjected to extreem temperatures and pressures-->in combination to the chemical processes taking place at the time.


Hey, Jack, I did not get into this brawl to prove or disprove your invention, just to correct the idiotic disinformation spewed by whomsoever.

Many years ago today, I invented a perfect IC piston engine that had the best efficiency theoretically possible. Then I noticed that some people somewhere were claiming OU by coal fusion. Or maybe that was cold fusion.   ;D  Henceforth  I began to study and invent based on  principles beside chemical combustion. My studies and inventions have not been entirely without positive results.  ;) But I am not in the least interested now about whether somebody's ICE can get 30% efficiency or 57% efficiency. Many years ago today, I already invented the ICE that is the best it can be. I never calculated or tested the efficiency. If yours is 57, then, mine had to be at least 58.

I have considered digging it up and using it as a match to light my fire with. But I do not have the time, the energy, and other resources, to fight a war on two fronts simultaneously.

The best ICE is not as good as the worst OU device.


Best
CANGAS 154
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: MarkE on March 08, 2015, 07:53:07 AM
Bill
Water cannot be burned full stop-regardless of what it may go through. Having to burn something in order for it to be classed as a fuel is incorrect. Fuel is a substance that produces a force/and or energy. As we cannot create energy,then the energy already existed in the fuel,so only a transformation takes place. Water to steam is such a transformation,but the steam is still water,just small particles.
You are conflating propellant with fuel.  A propellant merely conforms to Newton's Third Law.  A fuel is consumed:  The feed stock changes into a different material with a lower energy potential, and the difference in energy is released.
Quote

Here is the experiment i started out with some 3 years ago to get to where i am today.This is one anyone can carry out that has some sort of mechanical skills.For this we will use an !off the shelf! catalyst,and an !off the shelf! generator of your liking--> i used a 1200 watt generator with a 4 stroke IEC.

First you pick a load that will be constant throughout the testing-->i used a 500 watt flood light,and had an AC volt meter across that light to make sure the voltage remains constant. A pre run of the generator to get it up to running teperature is also a good idea.

Test 1-You place 1/2 ltr of standard fuel into the tank(i swapped the original tank out for a 1 ltr tank.
Then run the generator with load until the fuel has been used,recording the teperature of the engine during the run,and the voltage across the load. The voltage should remain constant,as the generator is governed to run at a fixed RPM. Record run time,and engine temp.

Test 2.
Now you will need to run the generator with a catalyst mixed in with the fuel at a 4:1 ratio,but maintain the total liquid amount at 1/2 ltr. So for this test i used 400ml of gasoline,and 100ml of metholated spirits-->as it mixes both with gasoline and water. You then run test 1 again,and record run time and engine teperature.

Test 3
You now mix your fuel(the 4:1 gasoline/metho mix),BUT you add 100 ml of water to the metholated spirits first-->before adding it to the gasoline. You then run your test again,recording run time and engine teperature. The voltage across the load will remain the same due to the engine speed being governed-->but keep an eye on it anyway.

My results of that test as recoreded in my log's.

Test 1
Run time-27 minutes,38 seconds-->engine full stop.
Engine temperature at cylinder-142*C
Load 500 watts.

Test 2
Run time-25 minutes,22 seconds-->engine full stop
Engine temperature at cylinder-138*C
Load 500 watts

Test 3

Run time-36 minutes,42 second's-->engine full stop.
Load 500 watts
Engine temperature at cylinder-144*C

So from this we ask-->where did the energy come from to gain a longer run time,and a higher engine teperature?.
Well that was a nice attempt to try and conduct a meaningful experiment.  However:

You did not determine the caloric output of any of the three fuels used.
You did not determine whether any of the fuel alterations affected the caloric to mechanical efficiency of the engine.

So you pretty much can only conclude what you observed:  CHT and run time versus fuel type.

Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: Jimboot on March 08, 2015, 08:23:18 AM
The third videw had wires planted in the ground.  That was a direct attempt to deceive.  The first and second video had the motor function built into the "generator".  Again more direct attempts to deceive.
So a thorough investigation of the videos is probably mor accurate.
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: tinman on March 08, 2015, 08:32:31 AM
You are conflating propellant with fuel.  A propellant merely conforms to Newton's Third Law.  A fuel is consumed:  The feed stock changes into a different material with a lower energy potential, and the difference in energy is released.Well that was a nice attempt to try and conduct a meaningful experiment.  However:

You did not determine the caloric output of any of the three fuels used.
You did not determine whether any of the fuel alterations affected the caloric to mechanical efficiency of the engine.

So you pretty much can only conclude what you observed:  CHT and run time versus fuel type.
Lol-see what i mean guys-text book stuff used to try and discredit some ones work and conclusions.


Quote
You did not determine whether any of the fuel alterations affected the caloric to mechanical efficiency of the engine.
And yet i recorded both an increase in teperature and power output when adding water.

Water injection systems are designed to decrease engine running temperatures by decreasing the temperature of the gas entering the engine. This has the effect of being able to raise the compression,and/or advance the timeing of the engine. commonly used on turbo or super charged engines to increase boost pressures without destroying the engine.

But in my case,both the engine temperature and power output(via way of longer run time) both increased.As i stated,in order for water to increase engine performance via way of text book theory,then the engine temperature would have to decrease. But as i noted,the engine temperature increased,so the extra energy did not come from converting engine temperature into mechanical energy.
I might also add that all engine parameters remain the same -EG,timing,compression ratio,and load.
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: MarkE on March 08, 2015, 10:31:12 AM
Lol-see what i mean guys-text book stuff used to try and discredit some ones work and conclusions.
It's good that you conduct experiments.  What's not so good is when you draw conclusions that your experimental data does not support.  What's ugly is that for some reason you seem to disdain education.

Here are some things for you to think about:

What happens to your results if the caloric content of the various mixtures happened to be identical, but the flame propagation rate is different?
What happens to your results if the flame propagation rates are different and the caloric contents are different?
What happens to your results if the specific heat of the vapors are different?
What did your experiments do to establish any:  the caloric content of any of the mixtures, the flame dynamics, or the specific heat of the gasses during the power stroke?

When a grad student comes up with an idea, investigates the idea, and then writes up their thesis, they then must defend their thesis.  That process is not some sort of fraternity hazing.  It is a legitimate vetting of the student's work.  If the work is solid it holds up to such inquiry.  If it is full of big holes it is unlikely to do well.  You can choose to take the criticisms of your conclusions as constructively as they are offered, or you can take them personally as some sort of persecution.
Quote

And yet i recorded both an increase in teperature and power output when adding water.
Great, you changed a variable and you observed two parameters change.
Quote

Water injection systems are designed to decrease engine running temperatures by decreasing the temperature of the gas entering the engine. This has the effect of being able to raise the compression,and/or advance the timeing of the engine. commonly used on turbo or super charged engines to increase boost pressures without destroying the engine.
Yes, both the specific heat of water, and latent heat of vaporization of water are both very substantial quantities.
Quote

But in my case,both the engine temperature and power output(via way of longer run time) both increased.
So, what can you conclude?  Assuming that the mechanical load was regulated as 500W/Efficiencyalternator you know that the engine delivered more total mechanical energy for a fixed fuel mixture volume, and that the amount of heat rejected to the engine mass increased.  What you do not know is either:  1) How much chemical energy was contained in each mixture, or 2) How much heat energy evolved from the combustion went out the exhaust (most of it) in each case.
Quote
As i stated,in order for water to increase engine performance via way of text book theory,then the engine temperature would have to decrease. But as i noted,the engine temperature increased,so the extra energy did not come from converting engine temperature into mechanical energy.
You make the invalid assumption that input energy increased.  You have not accounted for the bulk of the energy released:  the exhaust, so you cannot say whether the longer, hotter runs were the result of greater heat generation or not.
Quote
I might also add that all engine parameters remain the same -EG,timing,compression ratio,and load.
That's nice, and it reduces the number of variables.  Unfortunately, if determining caloric output was your goal, your experiments were not set-up to do that.
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: ramset on March 08, 2015, 11:37:14 AM
TinMan
I had to go visit with my daughter,  away from the computer for a few days
Regarding your engine work and water fuel


I,m very excited about that.....
We need to get you off the road and into a lab!


That,s the page I,m on my friend,have a good week.


Chet
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: ramset on March 09, 2015, 05:46:25 PM
fatbird
It is the assumption that Mark E somehow has the final word on these things without ever having spoken
With the inventor or having any interaction with some one who has.
He treats the TPU LENR NMR NAR or any other claim the same way.


He places himself in a category where people have no respect for his opinions,because he has none
His word is the final word...opinions need not apply.


Case in point Wasif
And Mark E is also very disingenuous he outright lies and says I support these claims
When all I do support is a proper investigation prior to a sentencing.


An open ended statement which would perhaps be a benchmark post highlighting the
Issues with the inventors claim would be much better than calling someone you never spoke with a thief and a liar


He has the same approach for Steven Mark's  TPU and many other
Claims where we have never spoken with the  inventor


I'm still away visiting but we need to address this here,for several reasons
Not the least of which is to keep  these threads from regurgitating old topics
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: MarkE on March 09, 2015, 06:47:30 PM
fatbird
It is the assumption that Mark E somehow has the final word on these things without ever having spoken
With the inventor or having any interaction with some one who has.
He treats the TPU LENR NMR NAR or any other claim the same way.
Evidence is always welcome.  You frequently bring none.
Quote


He places himself in a category where people have no respect for his opinions,because he has none
His word is the final word...opinions need not apply.
Evidence is always what matters.
Quote


Case in point Wasif
Indeed.  Wasif's hapless videos were evaluated based on the evidence they presented and found to refute his claims by multiple reasonable people.  Of late you whine that those evaluations were somehow unfair or inconclusive without taking a single observation to task.  IOW, you prefer fantasy to reality.
Quote

And Mark E is also very disingenuous he outright lies and says I support these claims
When all I do support is a proper investigation prior to a sentencing.
Falsely claiming as you do that there is any reasonable doubt as to the truth or falsity of ridiculous claims that have been completely demolished by the likes of Greg Potter and Wasif Kaloon is giving support to those claims.  It's your free right to ignore facts as you choose.  It's no one else's fault that you get called on that.  If you actually believed the BS positions that you adopt you wouldn't be offended that others note them.
Quote


An open ended statement which would perhaps be a benchmark post highlighting the
Issues with the inventors claim would be much better than calling someone you never spoke with a thief and a liar
You adhere to a strange fallacy that determination of the truth or falsity of a claim requires a personal pilgrimage and face to face interview with the claimant.  Curiously, to the best of my knowledge you have never stated what supposed information such a pilgrimage or interview would render that alter the conclusions reached with other data.  When something clearly and indisputably fails to perform as a claimant states in their own presentations what more do you expect from an in-person inspection?  Remarkably even when damning facts are brought up you routinely fail to address those facts, and just bleat on with your nonsensical arbitrary criteria that no claim can be judged without a pilgrimage and/or face to face interview with the claimant.
Quote


He has the same approach for Steven Mark's  TPU and many other
Claims where we have never spoken with the  inventor
Got evidence?  Nope.  And that's the problem with so many extraordinary claims.
Quote


I'm still away visiting but we need to address this here,for several reasons
Not the least of which is to keep  these threads from regurgitating old topics
The forums are open for discussion.  Strong arguments are backed by reliable:  IE verifiable facts.  The charlatans Wasif Kaloon and Greg Potter will be singing the famous song "Tomorrow" until they have no more breath to sing.
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: ramset on March 09, 2015, 08:23:31 PM
Mark E
Quote
 Strong arguments are backed by reliable:  IE verifiable facts.
end quote


Soo what happened Here ??


Can you please take a moment to list your evidence against Wasif ?***[or Steven Mark Or Andrea Parkhomov or whoever]
For that is exactly what I feel needs doing here ,and then people can decide for themselves whether
a Complete investigation has lead to your conclusion [fraud thief and liar] ,or just some time watching
a video with some chums....?


I say that your Bold claim  against Wasif requires do diligence or should be rescinded to  "opinion " status.
anything less would be a disservice to the Investigatory process.


In My opinion you play quite lightly with the rights of others and have no problem at all telling lies


as an example you say quite often that I support claims and persons which I have never supported.



what I do support is Honesty and when you say you have investigated a claim and you have found
a man guilty of fraud , theft and  deception ,that statement requires a certain process to have taken place.


such is not the case here.


This could all be made clear in a bench mark post ,and should.. so as to not keep deceiving readers[which cuts both ways]


The post could read like this
Below are some opinions on this Video and its apparent claims
Member Joey sites what he feels is an in appropriate connection between the components
Member Petey says he sees a hidden power cord at the 1 minute 29sec Mark
Member Mikey says he believes the Generator is really powering this device he sites the 1 minute 40 sec mark
ETC ETC ETC

we have asked the Inventor for clarity on these and other questions,  he has offered to show an engineer a test
as of this date no proper test or explanation has been forthcoming,
 we feel this claim can not be taken seriously at this time.


Please advise us if you have more information on this claim.


respectfully
Supreme Being............
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: MarkE on March 09, 2015, 09:14:36 PM
Mark E
Quote
 Strong arguments are backed by reliable:  IE verifiable facts.


Soo what happened Here ??


Can you please take a moment to list your evidence against Wasif ?***[or Steven Mark Or Andrea Parkhomov or whoever]
Each scam I have evaluated, I have posted the basis of my evaluation.  Now, what's comically ironic here is how you have claimed that analyses of these various scams were unfair while implying that you are not familiar with them.  Got a mirror Chet?

Just for fun let's look at damning evidence Wasif's first video included:

It was clearly observable that the flexible coupling wound up from the "generator" side towards the "motor" side.  That means that the "generator" was the mechanical driver, and not the claimed motor.

He claimed several kW electric power load.  The loads were switched on before the motor started.  The device rotates at low speeds.  The corresponding reflected load torque would be hundreds of N*m.  A person is seen easily moving the freely moving shaft applying a small fraction of a N*m.  This established that the "generator" did not power the load.
 
Either of those observations both completely kill Wasif Kaloon's claims as well as establish that he was deliberate in his fakery.  Why has it taken you over a year to inform yourself?
Quote

For that is exactly what I feel needs doing here ,and then people can decide for themselves whether
a Complete investigation has lead to your conclusion [fraud thief and liar] ,or just some time watching
a video with some chums....?
LOL, perhaps you can explain what a "Complete investigation" must include, and why.  Keep in mind the above comedy.
Quote


I say that your Bold claim  against Wasif requires do diligence or should be rescinded to  "opinion " status.
anything less would be a disservice to the Investigatory process.
LOL, you are entitled to hold any ideas you like, no matter how silly and by your own account: ill informed.
Quote


In My opinion you play quite lightly with the rights of others and have no problem at all telling lies
And what would be an example of one of these lies you allege?
Quote


as an example you say quite often that I support claims and persons which I have never supported.
You are in this very message supporting Wasif Kaloon, while denying the same.
Quote



what I do support is Honesty and when you say you have investigated a claim and you have found
a man guilty of fraud , theft and  deception ,that statement requires a certain process to have taken place.
So you say.  Yet, you support charlatans and frauds, while denying that you do so.  How honest is that Chet?  You say that evaluations of those frauds were inadequate and unfair yet you also feign unfamiliarity with those evaluations.  How honest is that Chet?
Quote


such is not the case here.
By your  words you are not in a position to make such an evaluation because according to you, you are not familiar with how the conclusions were reached. Apparently, in your great crusade for defense of the indefensible you have yet to actually counter any of the observations used in the evaluations that you dispute.
Quote


This could all be made clear in a bench mark post ,and should.. so as to not keep deceiving readers[which cuts both ways]
Yes, Chet everyone builds or destroys their credibility by how what they say matches reality.  How do you think you are doing in that regard?  Do you still think that Greg Potter can possibly have a "water powered generator" when there is no physical basis for such a thing and Greg Potter himself acknowledges that water does not supply energy to his "water powered generator"?  If so:  why? Now that you have been informed again (TK did it just a few days ago) that Wasif's "motor" is shown in his own videos to be driven and not driving do you think Wasif's motor can possibly be a motor, much less a self-powering one?  If so, why?
Quote


The post could read like this
Below are some opinions on this Video and its apparent claims
Member Joey sites what he feels is an in appropriate connection between the components
Member Petey says he sees a hidden power cord at the 1 minute 29sec Mark
Member Mikey says he believes the Generator is really powering this device he sites the 1 minute 40 sec mark
ETC ETC ETC

we have asked the Inventor for clarity on these and other questions,  he has offered to show an engineer a test
as of this date no proper test or explanation has been forthcoming,
 we feel this claim can not be taken seriously at this time.


Please advise us if you have more information to the contrary .


respectfully
Supreme Being............
I am sorry but the Flying Spaghetti Monster is too busy spreading the glow of his noodly appendage to engage you.  You will have to settle for me at this time.
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: ramset on March 10, 2015, 03:01:28 AM
 Mark E
An analysis of a you tube video is a long way from a formal investigation (which would require participation from
The inventor)
So you are left with an opinion ,that is all ,  you can have no true claim of fraud with out proper evidence.
Any judge would laugh you out of the court room.


Unless you are a fascist and do not require do process of law.


End of story.
regarding your boldface lies  in which you say I endorse unproven technologies...
Well that is just a lie and you know it.


I support proper investigation with the cooperation of the inventor and would never call a man a thief or fraud with out evidence,nor would I endorse something which was unproven.
I would state an opinion and note it as such.
You just never know what may or may not be true .


I keep an open mind and hope for the best.


I have no idea why Fatbird keeps posting these old vids as new,  however it has served some useful
Purpose ,I did not know Mark E was a hired gun for free energy investors and I. Suppose
That could be a reason Stefan's forum views have dropped by 2/3 in the last year ,and perhaps
It hinders many from sharing their open source work here knowing an agent for investors watches 24/7


I have seen this 1st hand and can completely appreciate how this can stifle open source .


Mark E your willingness to spread untruths as well as twist words towards your own agenda
Speak volumes about your character .
Every single news article or claim to come across these pages whether from a prestigious university or NASA or whomever you Poop on it...every last one.


I don't care how good you are at your job ,your lack of integrity makes that moot .


I think one of the biggest reasons you push so hard is you hope some one pushes back with the golden goose....and I completely believe you would run right out the door with it..


Fair thee well



Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 10, 2015, 03:14:50 AM
Chet:

Seriously,  a lot of things can be learned from a simple video, if you know what to look for and understand physics and electronics.  Not
everything, of course, but if I made a wild claim about running my entire home from a single AA battery and produced a video 'showing" this...
you would not have to meet me in person, nor examine my device to KNOW this is not true.  Then, add to this, a close examination of my video reveals extension cords and a pile of car batteries in the background, and now you can really know that my device is a fake.

The smart guys on here, as I call them as a term of respect, see things in some of these videos that I do not...until I look again after knowing where to look...and...there it is.  I don't know if you have experienced this or not but it has happened to me several times.

It's like...duh, I do see an extension cord...what is that doing there?  Even though I never noticed it during the first viewing.  Or, because of their knowledge, they see a scope shot and say that is the wrong wave form for this..or whatever.

You, I believe, are good at your job.  Do you think that you and I would see the same thing when we looked at one of your projects that you are examining/inspecting?  I know we would not.  You would know what to look for and where to look for them...I might just see a bridge.

Anyway,  I hope my point get through here.

Bill
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: memoryman on March 10, 2015, 03:23:59 AM
Well said, Bill.
I've had numerous email exchanges with Wasif himself and he is a total fraud; does not understand physics or electronics if it bit him in the @$$. Don't have to visit him to know that.
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: ramset on March 10, 2015, 03:28:28 AM
Bill
I'm not just speaking of this silly vid,it's everything.....everything that comes here
Whether it's TPU. LENR whatever
All garbage (to supreme being Mark E
Steven Mark is a fraud ?,the guy never tried to sell anything to anybody
Here or any forum...
Was pulled in by our government and threatened ,in person ..to his face..


Supreme being calls it a fraud ,it's like crying wolf everything gets the same treatment
Greet it with the baseball bat of fraud.


And most recently BRADS water as fuel claim (I AM NOT REFERING .TO GDS)...water is made up of hydrogen and oxygen
To state that under no conditions can this contribute to work or combustion is absurd...
I really do think he,s just fishing for work/investors when he states things to provoke.
Also

There are many guys that secretly investigate claims and never share with the community
I wonder why that is???
Businessmen looking to make a buck ,could care less about open source.
I suppose a lot of these video guys are after investors so it's a dog eat dog scenario .


I will not be responding here got better things to do.


 Chet
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: memoryman on March 10, 2015, 04:03:50 AM
Mark E is, to the best of my personal knowledge, NOT a paid government shill; he and I have differences of opinion as to what is maybe possible; I have no issue with that. Mark dislikes the many frauds that show up with their youtube video 'proof'; he is straight forward and rarely wrong. I respect him.
I don't lie or embellish and am NOT paid by anyone but my own company. Believe it or not.
If you want to have private conversations, I am open to that.
Title: Re: -----> Magnet Motor Drives Generator for FREE JUICE.
Post by: MarkE on March 10, 2015, 04:05:31 AM
Mark E
An analysis of a you tube video is a long way from a formal investigation (which would require participation from
The inventor)
You have failed to establish any deficiencies in the analysis offered.  You have failed to challenge either the observations or the conclusions offered as a result.  IOW, you are shooting blanks amidst a bunch of unsupported assertions that you make.
Quote

So you are left with an opinion ,that is all ,  you can have no true claim of fraud with out proper evidence.
Any judge would laugh you out of the court room.
Hmm, well let us suppose that we were trying a case for slander.  Be my guest and offer your best evidence and argument.  This ought to be fun.
Quote


Unless you are a fascist and do not require do process of law.
What specific laws are you referring to there Chet?
Quote


End of story.
regarding your boldface lies  in which you say I endorse unproven technologies...
Well that is just a lie and you know it.
On the contrary I have shown that despite irrefutable proof that the claims are false, you continue to argue that they may be true.  Therefore you are arguing in favor of the claims.  You tell yourself the lie that such behavior is not what it is.
Quote


I support proper investigation with the cooperation of the inventor and would never call a man a thief or fraud with out evidence,nor would I endorse something which was unproven.
You support frauds long after their false claims have been disproven.  Wasif Kaloon, and Greg Potter are both cases in point.
Quote
I would state an opinion and note it as such.
You just never know what may or may not be true .
It is a logical fallacy to equate the probabilities of multiple possible outcomes.  It is possible that Jesus will appear and sup with Sterling Allan as he is convinced his alphabetic nonsense fortells.  The probability of that happening is similar to the probability that the water that Greg Potter admits cannot supply energy fuels his "water powered generator" or the motor that Wasif Kaloon has demonstrated is a load driven by his "generator" is a free energy producing all magnet motor.  You are free to act as foolishly as you like: overtly ignoring the direct and conclusive evidence before you because you arbitrarily declare you need the "cooperation of the inventor".
Quote


I keep an open mind and hope for the best.
Well there is that old adage about keeping such an open mind that one's brains fall out.   You actually demonstrated a closed view, as you reject the conclusive evidence against these clowns without making any attempt to refute it.  You might as well stick your fingers in your ears and repeat:  "Nah, nah, nah".
Quote


I have no idea why Fatbird keeps posting these old vids as new,  however it has served some useful
Purpose ,I did not know Mark E was a hired gun for free energy investors and I. Suppose
That could be a reason Stefan's forum views have dropped by 2/3 in the last year ,and perhaps
It hinders many from sharing their open source work here knowing an agent for investors watches 24/7
LOL, there you go making silly assertions again.
Quote


I have seen this 1st hand and can completely appreciate how this can stifle open source .
Please do tell more.
Quote


Mark E your willingness to spread untruths as well as twist words towards your own agenda
Speak volumes about your character .
Do you think if you keep repeating those accusations often enough that they will take?  It would seem that what you are perfectly happy to cast unfounded accusations at people like me who point out fraud, but when it comes to actual frauds, you go out of your way to avoid evidence that exposes them.  Why do you do such things Chet?  You must realize that the more frauds burn people the less likely people will be to give others with speculative ideas a chance.  IOW, you should know well that in the end you are a discouraging force.
Quote
Every single news article or claim to come across these pages whether from a prestigious university or NASA or whomever you Poop on it...every last one.
That is a false claim.  I need only point to one thing that I have found encouraging to refute you.  Would you like to recant now, or shall I dish your lie back to you?
Quote


I don't care how good you are at your job ,your lack of integrity makes that moot .
There's those free swinging accusations again from a guy who claims he wants to be honest and fair.
Quote


I think one of the biggest reasons you push so hard is you hope some one pushes back with the golden goose....and I completely believe you would run right out the door with it..
LOL, you have quite the imagination there Chet.  This is an open-source forum.  Anything that I see, thousands of others see.  Any of them are free to pick-up an inventor or idea that they think is valuable.  How does your idea account for that?  How does it account that if I was doing as you speculate that I would not be beat to the punch by someone else?
Quote


Fair thee well
I certainly intend to do so.