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Author Topic: Self-sustaining DC Motor, using old 5 1/4" Floppy Drive Magnet  (Read 19262 times)

Offline shylo

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Re: Self-sustaining DC Motor, using old 5 1/4" Floppy Drive Magnet
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2015, 02:15:32 PM »
Hi smokey, What was the dia. of the motor you were using? Also what was the distance from the disk to the magnets in the motor, the length of the shaft?
In the last photo Gylua shows there are 10 little south poles and 9 little north poles on the outer rim, where he indicates the big south pole. Not sure if that is important or not.
I've noticed that spinning a mag wheel with all the same poles facing out creates an opposite pole in the center, and projects outwards, but that was with magnets around the perimeter not fully covering the wheel and not alternating.
artv

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Offline pomodoro

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Re: Self-sustaining DC Motor, using old 5 1/4" Floppy Drive Magnet
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2015, 07:29:14 AM »
Ok ive got all the bits.



Motor is a 5v DC.


Do the dimensions of your setup seem similar to those in the pic?

Offline pomodoro

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Re: Self-sustaining DC Motor, using old 5 1/4" Floppy Drive Magnet
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2015, 09:20:23 AM »
Here are some preliminary tests. This one has the magnetic side pointing down. 6V is applied to motor my hand for probably one second as you can see on the vid. Then motor is allowed to spin down by itself. it takes quite a while to do so.

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Re: Self-sustaining DC Motor, using old 5 1/4" Floppy Drive Magnet
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2015, 09:20:23 AM »
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Offline pomodoro

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Re: Self-sustaining DC Motor, using old 5 1/4" Floppy Drive Magnet
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2015, 09:22:01 AM »
And in this one the shield is pointing down, still taking a while to stop.

Offline shylo

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Re: Self-sustaining DC Motor, using old 5 1/4" Floppy Drive Magnet
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2015, 10:30:04 AM »
Hi pomodoro, That is a long time. It would be nice to see a run with just a flywheel of equal dimension and weight.
Will steel objects stick to the outside of that motor? Just curious if the housing is saturated.
Thanks for taking the time.
artv

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Self-sustaining DC Motor, using old 5 1/4" Floppy Drive Magnet
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2015, 10:30:04 AM »
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Offline MagnaProp

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Re: Self-sustaining DC Motor, using old 5 1/4" Floppy Drive Magnet
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2015, 10:58:21 AM »
Great work pomodoro. Strange that it appears to run just as long with the bare magnet facing the motor or the shielded part facing the motor. Do you have a source for the exact motor you used?

Thanks sm0ky2 for posting your info on this. Very interesting.


Offline gyulasun

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Re: Self-sustaining DC Motor, using old 5 1/4" Floppy Drive Magnet
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2015, 12:30:08 PM »
Ok ive got all the bits.



Motor is a 5v DC.


Do the dimensions of your setup seem similar to those in the pic?

Hi pomodoro,

Smokey wrote in his Reply #3 that the diameter of his motor was about that of a US quarter dollar coin (which is about 25mm if I am not mistaken)  and the length of his motor was between 1&1/4 to 1&1/2 inch.  and it was a 6 to 12 V DC motor.
The magnets size should be the same for all the 5&1/4 inch floppy drives.

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Re: Self-sustaining DC Motor, using old 5 1/4" Floppy Drive Magnet
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2015, 12:30:08 PM »
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Offline lumen

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Re: Self-sustaining DC Motor, using old 5 1/4" Floppy Drive Magnet
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2015, 04:50:57 PM »
Does the magnetic disc affect the motor in any way?
Maybe rotate the disc near the motor without being connected, and see if there is any effect on the motors rotor.

Offline pomodoro

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Re: Self-sustaining DC Motor, using old 5 1/4" Floppy Drive Magnet
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2015, 08:06:47 AM »
Here is the motor in question. There is a PDF that comes up with all the info you need, just google the part number.  I have not been able to do more tests as yet. The fact that the upside down mounting is just as good probably means that the motor has very low friction and that the magnet is not interacting with it. Anyhow, that my opinion.  I guess it would be worth while spinning the motor for a few minutes, stopping it by hand and using a charged up large capacitor to restart it. The repeating the process after a long rest, but with the cap only.  To see if Aspdens experiment can be replicated with this sort of weird magnet.  I wish he gave us more details.  Here is the best I could find .
http://www.scribd.com/doc/76567187/1995-Harold-Aspden-Discovery-of-Virtual-Inertia#scribd

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Self-sustaining DC Motor, using old 5 1/4" Floppy Drive Magnet
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2015, 08:06:47 AM »
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Offline conradelektro

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Re: Self-sustaining DC Motor, using old 5 1/4" Floppy Drive Magnet
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2015, 12:11:12 PM »
I guess it would be worth while spinning the motor for a few minutes, stopping it by hand and using a charged up large capacitor to restart it. The repeating the process after a long rest, but with the cap only.  To see if Aspdens experiment can be replicated with this sort of weird magnet.  I wish he gave us more details.  Here is the best I could find .
http://www.scribd.com/doc/76567187/1995-Harold-Aspden-Discovery-of-Virtual-Inertia#scribd

One page up I pointed to Aspden and gave the same link:
http://www.overunity.com/15581/self-sustaining-dc-motor-using-old-5-14-floppy-drive-magnet/msg441000/#msg441000

But it is good that you discovered it as well. If there is something worth while, it could be that "memory of space" or "memory of the earth magnetic field".

The big question: is it necessary to spin a magnet or just a "mass"?

Since you have already built your spinning magnetic disk, you could do the "Aspden test" in case you have a stop watch.

But be aware that Aspden measured the spin up time (up to a certain rpm) not the spin down time. But may be the spin down time is significant as well.

Mount you contraption (DC motor + magnetic disc) on a table an do not move it, then:

Step 1: Spin your disk just a few seconds till it reaches terminal speed, measure the spin down time T1.

Step 2: Wait for at least 30 minutes.

Step 3: Spin your disk for 5 minutes, measure the spin down time T2.

Step 4: Wait for at lest 30 minutes. Go to step 1 (repeat a few times to get average values for T1 and T2)

According to Aspden: T2 should be longer than T1.

Greetings, Conrad

P.S.: Most mobile phones have a "stop watch application".

Offline pomodoro

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Re: Self-sustaining DC Motor, using old 5 1/4" Floppy Drive Magnet
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2015, 01:02:03 PM »
Hi Conrad, yes your post was what gave me the idea, I should have checked the link.  Have you any links for previous replications?

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Re: Self-sustaining DC Motor, using old 5 1/4" Floppy Drive Magnet
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2015, 01:02:03 PM »
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Offline conradelektro

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Re: Self-sustaining DC Motor, using old 5 1/4" Floppy Drive Magnet
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2015, 07:11:09 PM »
Hi Conrad, yes your post was what gave me the idea, I should have checked the link.  Have you any links for previous replications?

I did not find anything useful in the WWW. Aspden was active back in the nineties and nothing seems to have happened since.

I am building a contraption which will spin 6 magnets arranged in a hexagon (spin axis in the centre of the hexagon). The magnets can be oriented in various ways. But it will take some time, I am a slow builder.

Your posts inspired the idea that "spin down time from a certain speed" can also be used as a measurement method (instead of "spin up time to a certain speed"). Spin down is kind of easier to measure because the terminal speed does not have to be known precisely. One only has to assure that one starts the spin down always from the same terminal speed.

The terminal speed of a DC motor depends largely on the supply Voltage (which of course implies a certain Amperage). So, if one drives the "DC motor + magnet rotor" with a given Voltage (from a laboratory power supply) it should always spin up to the same terminal speed after a short time (hopefully in a few seconds).

Then the only variables are "length of time running" and "spin down time". Since "spin down time" will be rather long (many seconds) with a heavy rotor, differences should be pronounced (I hope).

Aspden also talked about orientating the contraption along a north - south - axis (or perpendicular to this axis). This only makes sense if one thinks about a "magnetic effect". If it is a "property of space", orientation of the contraption should not matter.

But may be the whole thing is nonsense. We will see. I will spin a "magnet rotor" and a "rotor without magnets". The rotor is made from plywood. If I manage to do some extended tests, I will also build a resin rotor with and without magnets (which will be heavy, about 1 kg).

It would help a lot if you did some spin down measurements with your set up. You could use a simple wooden disk as an alternative to your Floppy Drive Magnet just to see whether it spins down faster. You could use thin plywood and construct the disc with several layers of the thin plywood till the wooden disk has about the same weight than the Floppy Drive Magnet.

Greetings, Conrad

Offline MagnaProp

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Re: Self-sustaining DC Motor, using old 5 1/4" Floppy Drive Magnet
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2015, 09:44:50 PM »
Here is the motor in question...The fact that the upside down mounting is just as good probably means that the motor has very low friction and that the magnet is not interacting with it...
Thanks for the motor info. I agree with your preliminary assessment. sm0ky2 said he attached a non-magnetic flywheel to his set up and it didn't run as long. We unfortunately don't know what exact motor he used so maybe the windings in his motor caused a different effect? Sounds like it may be worth attaching a non-magnetic flywheel of the same shape and weight and see if the results are the same.

If you remove the yellow piece so the magnet is not attached to the motor shaft, do you notice a difference between running the motor with the magnet held in place by hand or removed?

Do any metal pieces stick to the shielded side of the magnet. Curious how much, if any, magnetism is getting through the shield?


Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Self-sustaining DC Motor, using old 5 1/4" Floppy Drive Magnet
« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2015, 02:01:10 AM »
@pomodoro
   
     Excellent replication, I wondered if I could explain enough without actually still having the device in question.
that seems to be where I was at with it when I left off.



@MagnaProp
Thanks for the motor info. I agree with your preliminary assessment. sm0ky2 said he attached a non-magnetic flywheel to his set up and it didn't run as long. We unfortunately don't know what exact motor he used so maybe the windings in his motor caused a different effect? Sounds like it may be worth attaching a non-magnetic flywheel of the same shape and weight and see if the results are the same.

If you remove the yellow piece so the magnet is not attached to the motor shaft, do you notice a difference between running the motor with the magnet held in place by hand or removed?

Do any metal pieces stick to the shielded side of the magnet. Curious how much, if any, magnetism is getting through the shield?

The size seems similar in size to the motor I had but it was long ago (maybe a touch smaller than mine, but close),
 one thing I can say the motor I used had two semi-circle permanent magnets on the inside surface, and the coil rotated there within.
   Knowing what I do about motor design, tells me this should not make a whole lot of difference. motors are designed in a number of variations, and combinations of electric and permanent magnetic fields, biasing, etc. but the general principal under which they operate remains the same, as Tesla has given us. Once operating, the coils induce a magnetic field in their counter-part. So, in essence, a coil-produced magnetic field is exactly the same as a permanent magnet of same field strength and dimensions.

I'm thinking more along the lines of the rotating field affecting the field interactions inside the motor, either by reducing/cancelling the back-EMF or something like that.

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Self-sustaining DC Motor, using old 5 1/4" Floppy Drive Magnet
« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2015, 03:07:59 AM »
Here is the motor in question. There is a PDF that comes up with all the info you need, just google the part number.  I have not been able to do more tests as yet. The fact that the upside down mounting is just as good probably means that the motor has very low friction and that the magnet is not interacting with it. Anyhow, that my opinion.  I guess it would be worth while spinning the motor for a few minutes, stopping it by hand and using a charged up large capacitor to restart it. The repeating the process after a long rest, but with the cap only.  To see if Aspdens experiment can be replicated with this sort of weird magnet.  I wish he gave us more details.  Here is the best I could find .
http://www.scribd.com/doc/76567187/1995-Harold-Aspden-Discovery-of-Virtual-Inertia#scribd


That is a core less motor. The armature has no core. Just learned about these recently when I got into drones.  So without the core on the rotor itself, the core less motor is most likely quite different.

From the description of the original motor used, I would try Radioshack. 2 magnet halves and an armature, like we have all seen before. Just size will be the question now. ;)

It seems odd, that if it works, the coils are not connected to anything(outside the motor at the terminals). But there is a connection made with the brushes as the rotor spins. A 3 pole motor shorts the windings at times, as do other motors with more poles, but the 3 pole does it for a longer period of rotation. The shorting is an inefficiency instilled into the design. ;) So for me, eliminating the idea that the coils dont have anything to do with it is off the table for now. ;) Just thoughts ;D

Mags

Mags

Mags

I like that motor by the way. Core less are very efficient and very quick to accelerate or just change speed.

 

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