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Author Topic: Overunity transformer effect  (Read 15016 times)

Offline tinman

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Overunity transformer effect
« on: March 02, 2015, 12:39:14 PM »
A simple little project with some interesting results and effects.

Below is a schematic of the DUT.
The transformer is just a 2:1 transformer-->nothing special. One of the inetresting effects is the ability to get the secondary winding to ring while the primary winding dose not-->and yet both windings are wound together on the same former. You will also note that the voltage across the secondary(blue trace) remains for twice the time duration than that of the primary(yellow trace)-->even though it is driving the LED. The scope shot below shows these two effects,and have attached the schematic as well-along with the first video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8enRKKAyg0

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Overunity transformer effect
« on: March 02, 2015, 12:39:14 PM »

Offline hvgo31

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Re: Overunity transformer effect
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2015, 03:46:30 PM »
Hy   Tin  Man  ,very  interesting  ,I  will  like  to  try   with  abiger  traffo  and  see  if  come  out  some  20  watt   lamp ,
wath  do  you   think  ,is  safe   to   try   to  bust   10  kgr.  traffo    in  this  configuration

Offline MarkE

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Re: Overunity transformer effect
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2015, 04:57:36 PM »
Open circuit you would normally get 2X the voltage across the secondary that you get across the primary.  You only get 3V across the secondary because the  the 50 Ohms of the function generator looks like 200 Ohms in series with the 2X secondary and the LED easily clamps against that.  If you move the chl 2 probe to the primary you should see that the voltage there only comes up to about +1.5V.  That means that during the pulse high time of the function generator, (1.5V)2/50 = 45mW is being dissipated internally by the function generator.  This is comparable to the power that is delivered to the circuit, meaning that the circuit is roughly 50% efficient. 


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Re: Overunity transformer effect
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2015, 04:57:36 PM »
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Offline Bob Smith

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Re: Overunity transformer effect
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2015, 09:51:56 PM »
Tinman,
Perhaps you already know this...  If the winding in your primary were 1/4 the size/weight of that in your secondary, would you not then get resonance in both sets of windings?
I am thinking of course, of Tesla's Magnifying transmitter.

But maybe you're not looking for resonance on both coils.
According to Eric Dollard, any time we drive a coil to resonance, we separate the dielectric component to one end and the magnetic/current component to the other end:
Quote
When you experiment with a resonating coil, you find that all your magnetism then appears at one end and all your dielectricity appears at the other end, and you have a difference in these electrical discharges which occur off the end of this... which will occur back to the point at which they started from. And you can hook a radio frequency watt meter or amp meter or whatever you want here and there'll be actual initiation of very heavy flows of energy, all of which are reflected back to the coil, except that utilized by the load...
Source:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=_wiFboM3f2M#t=27

How to access the dielectric component might be a question worth entertaining.
Bob

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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Overunity transformer effect
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2015, 10:12:36 PM »
Why don't you ask Eric Dollard that question, I'm sure his answer will be quite "entertaining". Especially for people who work with resonating coil systems every day, like radio engineers, and _real_ Tesla coil theorists like the Corum brothers.




Eric Dollard says a lot of things. Unfortunately, not very many of them are actually correct.

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Re: Overunity transformer effect
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2015, 10:12:36 PM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Overunity transformer effect
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2015, 10:18:36 PM »
Tinman,
Perhaps you already know this...  If the winding in your primary were 1/4 the size/weight of that in your secondary, would you not then get resonance in both sets of windings?
I am thinking of course, of Tesla's Magnifying transmitter.

But maybe you're not looking for resonance on both coils.
According to Eric Dollard, any time we drive a coil to resonance, we separate the dielectric component to one end and the magnetic/current component to the other end:
How to access the dielectric component might be a question worth entertaining.
Bob
All the magnetism shifts to one end?  In what universe does that happen?  Dollard is a nutter who makes outrageous declarations for beer money.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Overunity transformer effect
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2015, 11:29:52 PM »
I wonder which end is which on this resonating coil?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ-iF9Go0iI

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Re: Overunity transformer effect
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2015, 11:29:52 PM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Overunity transformer effect
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2015, 03:13:28 AM »
Please remember that as the title states, I will be showing an ou effect-not some device that will be saving man kind. I suspect the effect is some how being generated by the SG, although at this time im not sure how.
All this will be shown in the next video, which I will put together and post when I get back home-w b ich may be as late as friday--„Äčthe joys off long haul runs.

Offline Jimboot

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Re: Overunity transformer effect
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2015, 06:52:15 AM »
All the magnetism shifts to one end?  In what universe does that happen?  Dollard is a nutter who makes outrageous declarations for beer money.
You say that like it's a bad thing

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Re: Overunity transformer effect
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2015, 06:52:15 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Overunity transformer effect
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2015, 08:37:48 AM »
All the magnetism shifts to one end?  In what universe does that happen?  Dollard is a nutter who makes outrageous declarations for beer money.
Then explain as to how the secondary rings so strongly,while the primary coil dose not-->even though they are wound on the same core-one coil one end,and the other coil the other end.
The ringing shows an alternating voltage across the coil,and as far as i know,the magnetic field must be changing polarity to create this alternating voltage- +/- voltage. So if this is the case,then why dose not the primary also ring due to inductive coupling with the secondary?.

Seems to me that there dose indeed seem to be a case where only the secondary half of the core has an oscillating magnetic field-->although i do find this hard to believe myself ???

Offline MarkE

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Re: Overunity transformer effect
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2015, 11:36:24 AM »
Please remember that as the title states, I will be showing an ou effect-not some device that will be saving man kind. I suspect the effect is some how being generated by the SG, although at this time im not sure how.
All this will be shown in the next video, which I will put together and post when I get back home-w b ich may be as late as friday--„Äčthe joys off long haul runs.
Well what you've got right now is a situation where if you monitor the circuit at start-up, the voltage on the output of the FG should climb from about 1.5V to the 3V setting  logarithmically, as should the voltage at the common point on the bottom of the transformer.  Once the capacitor charges up to about 1.5V, then each time you apply a pulse from the function generator, it delivers 3V into the circuit at ~2X the current of the secondary, and then when the pulse falls to zero, current recirculates from the capacitor through the diode and that extends the time that voltage appears on the secondary.  When the primary current collapses is where you see the ringing.

If you want to measure the power accurately, you sort of have a problem of where to probe the secondary circuit for both voltage and current.  You want the voltage across the LED and the current through the LED.  You can make your life easier by referencing the secondary side to the same circuit ground as the primary side, instead of the bottom of the transformer primary as you have now.

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Re: Overunity transformer effect
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2015, 11:36:24 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Overunity transformer effect
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2015, 11:50:56 AM »
Then explain as to how the secondary rings so strongly,while the primary coil dose not-->even though they are wound on the same core-one coil one end,and the other coil the other end.
The ringing shows an alternating voltage across the coil,and as far as i know,the magnetic field must be changing polarity to create this alternating voltage- +/- voltage. So if this is the case,then why dose not the primary also ring due to inductive coupling with the secondary?.

Seems to me that there dose indeed seem to be a case where only the secondary half of the core has an oscillating magnetic field-->although i do find this hard to believe myself ???
That is trivial:  You are not probed to see that the voltage across the primary is ringing right along with the secondary.  You see the steady output of the function generator and measure that to ground which is not the voltage across the primary.  The voltage across the primary is the difference between the FG output and the voltage on the capacitor.

If you swap the R-C network with the transformer top to bottom as shown here then you can probe the voltage and current properly in both the primary and the secondary sides.  You will find that referred to the circuit ground, the primary and the secondary track very closely at the turns ratio.  When one rings, the other rings.

With the circuit rearranged as below (the 50 Ohms is internal to the FG) you will see the same voltage on node 1 as in the old circuit.  But now you can see the primary at node 4 (assumes small value CSR), and the secondary at node 3 (also assumes small output CSR) and register the currents at 5, and 6 for the input and output respectively.

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Overunity transformer effect
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2015, 12:03:06 PM »
It's about time some others called Dollard on his crazy statements. He also claims that if you stand under an antenna array in one location then you can also be standing under a remote receiver array at the same time or some such drivel. Just totally out there.

His swirling plasma in the light globes are not galaxies either they are just swirling plasma artifacts. I can do similar myself and have video of a filament spinning like a rotor inside a light bulb powered by a jet of plasma emitted from it's end. And with less than 10 watts input at 12 volts. No big deal to imagine the effects when a 10 000 volt supply and many hundreds of Watts are used. Especially easy when someone else pays for it all.

..

..

Offline tinman

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Re: Overunity transformer effect
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2015, 12:10:48 PM »
That is trivial:  You are not probed to see that the voltage across the primary is ringing right along with the secondary.  You see the steady output of the function generator and measure that to ground which is not the voltage across the primary.  The voltage across the primary is the difference between the FG output and the voltage on the capacitor.

If you swap the R-C network with the transformer top to bottom as shown here then you can probe the voltage and current properly in both the primary and the secondary sides.  You will find that referred to the circuit ground, the primary and the secondary track very closely at the turns ratio.  When one rings, the other rings.

With the circuit rearranged as below (the 50 Ohms is internal to the FG) you will see the same voltage on node 1 as in the old circuit.  But now you can see the primary at node 4 (assumes small value CSR), and the secondary at node 3 (also assumes small output CSR) and register the currents at 5, and 6 for the input and output respectively.
Really ???

Here is the second video.
Enjoy.

I have also swaped transformer's,and will be posting a video on that tonight as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kmayxefg8A8

Offline MarkE

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Re: Overunity transformer effect
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2015, 12:44:17 PM »
Yes, really.

You have arranged your circuit in a way that makes it difficult for you to measure it properly, especially given that you only have single-ended probes.  The primary is across nodes 1 and 2.  You are not probing across 1 and 2.  You are probing from 1 to ground and incorrectly calling that your primary.  Node 1 has 50 Ohms to ground during the ring out via the FG.  The secondary is high impedance as the LED has stopped conducting.

 

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