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### Author Topic: Skycollection's "Pentafilar Pancake" inductively coupled "Overunity Potential".  (Read 205868 times)

#### skycollection

• Full Member
• Posts: 169
##### Re: Skycollection's "Pentafilar Pancake" inductively coupled "Overunity Potential".
« Reply #300 on: December 21, 2015, 02:47:13 AM »
Ok Coradelektro, i did the experiment and i used a resistor of 1K and the result was 6.9, I really do not know what this result means, i will appreciate very much if you explain me.
the input watts with the resistance of 1 k : 13.56 volts x 0.13 = 1.76 watts.

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1843
##### Re: Skycollection's "Pentafilar Pancake" inductively coupled "Overunity Potential".
« Reply #301 on: December 21, 2015, 01:28:50 PM »
The idea is to use Ohm's law to calculate the Watts used by the resistor. The resistor transforms the Watts into heat.

Ohm`s law: V = I * R

In your case:  6.9 = I * 1000  -->   I = 6.9 / 1000 = 0.0069 Ampere

Watt = V * I = 6.9 * 0.0069 = 0.047

So, your output at the 1000 Ohm resistor is 47 Milliwatt or 0.047 Watt.

Since you have five outputs (5 LED-lamps or one could put five 1K resistor instead of the LED-lamps) the total output is 5 x 47 Milliwatt = 235 Milliwatt or 0.235 Watt.

Here is a on-line calculator which allows you to do the calculation by yourself (just fill in Voltage 6.9 and Resistor 1000 and click Calculate).

http://www.ohmslawcalculator.com/ohms-law-calculator

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ohm's_law_formula_wheel.JPG

One could argue, that your Multimeter does not measure true RMS Voltage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_mean_square), only peak to peak Voltage. But with this low output an error of even 50% would not matter much.

May be you have an other Multimeter which can measure lower AC Voltages (not 200 V AC, but may be 20 V AC). Repeat the measurement with that Multimeter. Attention: you have to measure alternating current (AC Voltage over the resistor), not direct current (not DC Voltage over the resistor). But there will only be a small difference. LEDs are very sensitive at low currents, they shine a little with only 2 Milliwatts. If your LED-lamps would be driven with the nominal current, they would hurt your eyes.

#### skycollection

• Full Member
• Posts: 169
##### Re: Skycollection's "Pentafilar Pancake" inductively coupled "Overunity Potential".
« Reply #302 on: December 21, 2015, 05:30:36 PM »
Ok Conrad, i realy apreciate your time and thanks for the information, i will study the links and i will make more tests.

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1843
##### Re: Skycollection's "Pentafilar Pancake" inductively coupled "Overunity Potential".
« Reply #303 on: December 21, 2015, 07:00:57 PM »
Ok Conrad, i realy apreciate your time and thanks for the information, i will study the links and i will make more tests.

Hi Skycollection:

You could replace all five LED-Lamps with a 1K resistor and you do the measurement for all five resistors. You should get similar Voltages over each 1K resistor around 6.9 V AC.

This will show that the output from each of the five coils is similar and more or less independent from the other coils.

The normal digital Multi-meters do a pretty good true RMS Voltage measurement around 50 to 60 Hz. And your output should be between 30 Hz and 50 Hz (which is about 1800 to 3000 rpm = revolutions per minute of your motor). And the output should be pretty much a sine wave. If you know someone with an oscilloscope, you could also measure the AC Voltage over the 1K resistor like you do with your multimeter. Most digital storage oscilloscopes will display (calculate) the true RMS Voltage. The difference between a very exact measurement with an oscilloscope and your multimeter will not be great (may be in the order of 5% to 20%).

Your motor-generators are very nicely built. Your input measurement is already pretty good and the output measurement is well under way.

Very good car alternators have an efficiency of about 80%. Unfortunately it is very unlikely that you can reach such an efficiency with your motor-generators because you can not optimise your materials like the designers in a car alternator factory. You would need a very small and precise gap between rotor an coils, very good magnets and specially designed coils and core material.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternator_%28automotive%29#Field_regulation

Nowadays one uses very sophisticated design software http://operafea.com/motor-design-software/?gclid=CLH_mO3D7ckCFRLhGwodnS8O7w

#### skycollection

• Full Member
• Posts: 169
##### Re: Skycollection's "Pentafilar Pancake" inductively coupled "Overunity Potential".
« Reply #304 on: December 22, 2015, 01:25:58 PM »
Thanks Conrad, I think it's worth making a new video with the correct measurements of each group of pancake coils with a resistance of 1K, and thanks for your commentaries.

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1843
##### Re: Skycollection's "Pentafilar Pancake" inductively coupled "Overunity Potential".
« Reply #305 on: December 22, 2015, 02:17:06 PM »
I think it's worth making a new video with the correct measurements of each group of pancake coils with a resistance of 1K

Would be interesting and your viewers will be able to see the result and whether you did the measurement correctly.

You motor-generators are nice to look at and good measurements will make them interesting as well.

#### skycollection

• Full Member
• Posts: 169
##### Re: Skycollection's "Pentafilar Pancake" inductively coupled "Overunity Potential".
« Reply #306 on: December 22, 2015, 07:21:45 PM »
Conrad, i have new data: I move the potentiometer to the breakeven.... i measure in the next way:
GROUP 1- TO THE CIRCUIT
GROUP 2= 8.7
GROUP 3= 8.3
GROUP 4= 8.6
GROUP 5= 8.5
GROUP 6= 8.6
I found a problem to measure each coil, i need to connect at least two LED bulbs for the circuit enter in self  oscillation, any way i can measure three groups at the same time.
THE INPUT CHANGE TO: 13.57 VOLTS X 0.15 = 2.03 WATTS

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1843
##### Re: Skycollection's "Pentafilar Pancake" inductively coupled "Overunity Potential".
« Reply #307 on: December 22, 2015, 08:22:30 PM »
Conrad, i have new data: I move the potentiometer to the breakeven.... i measure in the next way:
GROUP 1- TO THE CIRCUIT
GROUP 2= 8.7
GROUP 3= 8.3
GROUP 4= 8.6
GROUP 5= 8.5
GROUP 6= 8.6
I found a problem to measure each coil, i need to connect at least two LED bulbs for the circuit enter in self  oscillation, any way i can measure three groups at the same time.
THE INPUT CHANGE TO: 13.57 VOLTS X 0.15 = 2.03 WATTS

Let's take 8.7 Volt as the measurement (the higher the better) and the result for the output is:

- each coil puts out (at most) (8.7/1000)*8.7 = 0.076 Watt

- five coils together put out (at most) 5 * 0.076 =  0.38 Watt

- and as you measured, the input is about 2 Watt

I can not really explain the self resonance problem. There is a difference between a resistor and a LED:

- a resistor lets the current through, independent of Voltage; Voltage over the resistor will rise and fall like a sinus curve

- a LED needs about 1.8 Volt to become conductive (or even 3 Volt to have little resistance); therefore the Voltage over the LED will rise sharply till it reaches 1.8 Volt, it will then rise slowly to about 3 Volt and then it will decline also rather fast; the Voltage over the LED will not be a nice sinus curve, more like spikes; this might help self resonance (but this is just a speculation)

You could see that with an oscilloscope.

You could measure the AC Voltage over the LED lamp. It will be about 2 Volt or even less, may be 1.5 Volt (true RMS). This measurement over the LED lamp is just for fun and can not be used easily for a power calculation, because the resistance of the LED lamp is variable (and not constant like for the 1K resistor. Therefore I told you to use a resistor instead of the LED lamp for power measurement.)

The AC Voltage measurement over the LED lamp can also show whether the LEDs on the lamp are connected in series or in parallel. The measured AC Voltage would be higher if for instance there are six groups of three LEDs in series.

May be you can spin a stronger rotor magnet on top of the coil to make self resonance more easy. Or you could change the stand for the rotor magnet in a way to place the rotor magnet closer to the top of the coil. It looks like you could flip the rotor magnet by 180° (so that the round acrylic plate is on top), which will place the rotor magnet closer to the top of the coil (because the round acrylic plate is not longer between the rotor magnet and the top of the coil). The rotor magnet might not be stable in this position, but you could hold it down with your hand.

Would be nice to see a video of your measurements, if it is not too much trouble and work for you.

#### skycollection

• Full Member
• Posts: 169
##### Re: Skycollection's "Pentafilar Pancake" inductively coupled "Overunity Potential".
« Reply #308 on: December 26, 2015, 08:59:20 PM »
I'm on vacation and not have anything to do ...! MOTOR ASSEMBLY THIS IS ONLY MY TOY, Merry Christmas and happy new year to all...!

#### skycollection

• Full Member
• Posts: 169
##### Re: Skycollection's "Pentafilar Pancake" inductively coupled "Overunity Potential".
« Reply #309 on: January 20, 2016, 07:12:59 AM »
THIS IS MY NEW CONFIGURATION OF PANCAKE COIL......PROJECT: EDDY CURRENTS

#### Cherryman

• Hero Member
• Posts: 642
##### Re: Skycollection's "Pentafilar Pancake" inductively coupled "Overunity Potential".
« Reply #310 on: January 20, 2016, 11:05:15 AM »
THIS IS MY NEW CONFIGURATION OF PANCAKE COIL......PROJECT: EDDY CURRENTS

Hi Sky,

That looks promising! Good work.

I'm not an electrical wonder,
But with no or minimal eddy currents..  could it be as simple as to swap your pancake coil with a very thick wire pancake coil and have some good amperage?

Keep up the good work!

#### skycollection

• Full Member
• Posts: 169
##### Re: Skycollection's "Pentafilar Pancake" inductively coupled "Overunity Potential".
« Reply #311 on: January 20, 2016, 01:49:41 PM »
Just look that expressions........is very important........is an expresion of sm0ky2 this January 18 2016..........:

At the self-resonant frequency (for both inductor and coil):[/size]The reluctance of the inductor (resistance to change in flux) approaches 0The inductor behaves like a pure capacitor.The Coil has a capacitance, and at self-resonance, this capacitance takes on a purely inductive state.  (a capacitor does this too, but the explanation is a bit more complex.)When the inductor is a capacitor, and the capacitor is an inductor, the two can oscillate back and forth with little or no resistance to the effects of the oscillations.meaning there are no losses in the system, it can continue to resonate indefinitely, or until the physical components dissipate all of the energy due to heat.An inductive coupling to this self resonant circuit (but not electrically connected), can draw power off of the changes in the electromagnetic field, without affecting the oscillations of the system.Power that can be fed back in periodically to offset the heat losses.Tesla called this "energy" some kind of Cosmic Waves, he theorized were everywhere...

#### skycollection

• Full Member
• Posts: 169
##### Re: Skycollection's "Pentafilar Pancake" inductively coupled "Overunity Potential".
« Reply #312 on: April 29, 2016, 07:12:48 PM »

#### Bob Smith

• Hero Member
• Posts: 731
##### Re: Skycollection's "Pentafilar Pancake" inductively coupled "Overunity Potential".
« Reply #313 on: April 29, 2016, 07:22:59 PM »
Yes, there must be extra energy coming in from somewhere to maintain the electrical output at unity.