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Author Topic: Perpetual diamagnetic liquid  (Read 14456 times)

Offline Newton II

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Perpetual diamagnetic liquid
« on: February 21, 2015, 03:16:24 PM »

I found this picture somewhere in the internet.   It shows how diamagnetic  liquids are repelled by a magnetic field in a 'U' shaped tube.

It looks like we can get a permanent head difference between left and right portion of 'U' tube.   If right portion of the tube is connected  to left portion by a thin tube,  will it not create a perpetual motion of  liquid from right to left  due to head difference created by magnetic field?


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Perpetual diamagnetic liquid
« on: February 21, 2015, 03:16:24 PM »

Offline tinman

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Re: Perpetual diamagnetic liquid
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2015, 03:45:48 PM »
I found this picture somewhere in the internet.   It shows how diamagnetic  liquids are repelled by a magnetic field in a 'U' shaped tube.

It looks like we can get a permanent head difference between left and right portion of 'U' tube.   If right portion of the tube is connected  to left portion by a thin tube,  will it not create a perpetual motion of  liquid from right to left  due to head difference created by magnetic field?
And this diamagnetic liquid is what?
ATM i am grinding up some bismuth,but having trouble getting it below a 10 micron grain. Plan was to suspend it in a thin oil to see how it would react to a magnetic field-->but if you know of the existance of such a liquid(diamagnetic),that would be of much help.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Perpetual diamagnetic liquid
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2015, 05:31:37 PM »

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Re: Perpetual diamagnetic liquid
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2015, 05:31:37 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Perpetual diamagnetic liquid
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2015, 11:11:00 PM »
I found this picture somewhere in the internet.   It shows how diamagnetic  liquids are repelled by a magnetic field in a 'U' shaped tube.

It looks like we can get a permanent head difference between left and right portion of 'U' tube.   If right portion of the tube is connected  to left portion by a thin tube,  will it not create a perpetual motion of  liquid from right to left  due to head difference created by magnetic field?
Just remember that the diamagnetic liquid in that tube will still be diamagnetic inside the thin tube that connects left and right side of the "U".
So there cannot be a continous flow from one side to the other.


If the magnet can defeat gravity that much, it will defeat how gravity act on the liquid in the thin tube as well.


Vidar

Offline profitis

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Re: Perpetual diamagnetic liquid
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2015, 12:21:55 AM »
Tinman:'ATM i am grinding up some bismuth,but having trouble getting it below a 10 micron grain.'

Dissolve a piece Bi in nitric acid.heat in testube until acid evaporates and bismuth nitrate decomposes into Bi2O3.add HCl to form Bi(Cl)3 solution.then throw in a piece of zinc or magnesium.fine bismuth black powder forms via galvanic displacement.rinsein hot water

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Re: Perpetual diamagnetic liquid
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2015, 12:21:55 AM »
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Offline Newton II

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Re: Perpetual diamagnetic liquid
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2015, 03:08:24 AM »
And this diamagnetic liquid is what?
ATM i am grinding up some bismuth,but having trouble getting it below a 10 micron grain. Plan was to suspend it in a thin oil to see how it would react to a magnetic field-->but if you know of the existance of such a liquid(diamagnetic),that would be of much help.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamagnetism

A  table in that page shows  diamagnetic  strengths of various materials.
 
Water  =  − 0.91 X 10 -5
Mercury =  −2.9  X  10 -5
Bismuth=   −16.6 X 10 -5
Pyrolytic carbon=   −40.9 X  10 -5

In  that only water and mercury are liquids and rest of the materials are solids.  Mercury is a bit  stronger  diamagnetic  material than water.
If  you use mercury  as working fluid  and hold strongest  magnet on this earth  near the tube,  you may get a height difference of  few milimeters!!

Just remember that the diamagnetic liquid in that tube will still be diamagnetic inside the thin tube that connects left and right side of the "U".   So there cannot be a continous flow from one side to the other.

If the magnet can defeat gravity that much, it will defeat how gravity act on the liquid in the thin tube as well.

Vidar


If you use a steel connecting tube,  it shields the magnetic flux and diamagnetic fluid can easily flow through it.  I don't think it is a problem at all.



Offline Low-Q

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Re: Perpetual diamagnetic liquid
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2015, 09:17:41 AM »
Quote
If you use a steel connecting tube,  it shields the magnetic flux and diamagnetic fluid can easily flow through it.  I don't think it is a problem at all.
It will not work. Steel will guide magnetism away from the experiment too, making the liquid level difference smaller between left and right side of the "U". That will reduce the difference in possible potential energy just by the same bit as you shield the pipe.


Speaking of potential difference. There are actually no potential difference in this system as long it is static, and the magnet is kept permanently in place. So it is anyways impossible for this system to flow liquids just by itself.


Just try it and see for yourself. I bet a million dollars it won't work  ;)


Vidar

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Re: Perpetual diamagnetic liquid
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2015, 09:17:41 AM »
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Offline Newton II

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Re: Perpetual diamagnetic liquid
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2015, 12:15:23 PM »

Speaking of potential difference. There are actually no potential difference in this system as long it is static, and the magnet is kept permanently in place. So it is anyways impossible for this system to flow liquids just by itself.

Just try it and see for yourself. I bet a million dollars it won't work 


Vidar


Magnet is kept static to repel the liquid.  Potential difference is created by gravity. These two are different forces. Just astemperature difference causes heat energy to flow, force difference causes mechanical energy to flow.

There is a chance of this experiment working.  I cannot build it because I don't have very strong magnets with me. You request NASA scientists to build it and comform and give one million dollars to me!

Tell the NASA scientists to build it like this. It works!!

Offline profitis

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Re: Perpetual diamagnetic liquid
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2015, 12:30:33 PM »
Vidar:'I bet a million dollars it won't work  ;) '

Be careful with your money.this battery will work.o2 is magnetic.I've tested it

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Perpetual diamagnetic liquid
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2015, 12:30:33 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Perpetual diamagnetic liquid
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2015, 06:25:28 PM »

Magnet is kept static to repel the liquid.  Potential difference is created by gravity. These two are different forces. Just astemperature difference causes heat energy to flow, force difference causes mechanical energy to flow.

There is a chance of this experiment working.  I cannot build it because I don't have very strong magnets with me. You request NASA scientists to build it and comform and give one million dollars to me!

Tell the NASA scientists to build it like this. It works!!
No, no, no, no...! You forget something very basic here.
The magnet defeat gravity, so how can gravity do the work that is already defeated by the magnet?
Also remember that force equals counterforce. Newton! Remember him?


Well, if you don't, here are some basic principles:


Magnetism is a force
Gravity is a force


None of those are containing energy.


Energy is required to do work.


Without energy, work cannot be done.


So, here you go. Hope it clearify some  ;) 


BTW: I can build it. I have hose, water and a bunch of neodym magnets. I will prove to you it won't work.
I will post a video on youtube.


Vidar

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Perpetual diamagnetic liquid
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2015, 06:34:05 PM »
Vidar:'I bet a million dollars it won't work  ;) '

Be careful with your money.this battery will work.o2 is magnetic.I've tested it
That battery will not generate electricity forever. I bet a million dollar for you too  ;)
H2O is somewhat diamagnetic. Maybe O2 is magnetic, but that doesn't mean it can provide electricity forever using a magnet.
Do you know what happens to iron in the presence of pure oxygen? It "burns" into rust in relatively short time.


EDIT: And that potassium hydroxide bath you have, will not release ions forever....unless you refuel, and change the iron sponges on a regular basis.


Vidar

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Re: Perpetual diamagnetic liquid
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2015, 06:34:05 PM »
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Offline profitis

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Re: Perpetual diamagnetic liquid
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2015, 07:10:51 PM »
Vidar:'That battery will not generate electricity forever. I bet a million dollar for you too  ;)'

Me:I bet you a million it will work forever and a day ;). Iron is totaly passivated in alkali solution(this is why they make NiMh batteries in a steel case).Fe2O3 surface is a wellknown oxygen evolution and reduction catalyst.fuel cell cathodes have been tested using this magnetic principal to enhance o2 uptake and hence voltage and current densities.google it

Offline profitis

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Re: Perpetual diamagnetic liquid
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2015, 07:18:41 PM »
In the perpetual battery: cathode: o + h20 + 2e-> 2oh- anode: 2oh-> o + h2o + 2e-. Voltage: e=RT/nF ln c.O2(a)/c.O2(b) ...c is for oxygen concentration.you may use nickel sponge inplace of iron sponge,if you want

Offline Newton II

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Re: Perpetual diamagnetic liquid
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2015, 01:24:27 AM »

Magnetism is a force
Gravity is a force

None of those are containing energy.

Energy is required to do work.


Force cannot appear by itself.   Energy is required to generate force also.   What is supplying energy to generate force in magnetic and gravitational fields?



BTW: I can build it. I have hose, water and a bunch of neodym magnets. I will prove to you it won't work.
I will post a video on youtube.


Wish you good luck!   But can I believe you?   If it works,  you will not post the video because you will loose million dollars!!!  Somebody must be a fool to hammer crow bar on his own ....   :) :) :) 


Offline Low-Q

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Re: Perpetual diamagnetic liquid
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2015, 01:48:50 PM »
Force cannot appear by itself.   Energy is required to generate force also.   What is supplying energy to generate force in magnetic and gravitational fields?


Wish you good luck!   But can I believe you?   If it works,  you will not post the video because you will loose million dollars!!!  Somebody must be a fool to hammer crow bar on his own ....   :) :) :)
Energy is required to generate acceleration.


EDIT: Force don't need energy. Force can increase and decrease without any change in energy.
You can squeeze your hands together with great force, or little force, but the energy between your hands is zero. The only energy there is is energy loss in your body.


You can put a magnet on a rotor, and spin it close to a heavy iron piece. Say the magnet cannot lift the iron from ground for each pass, the iron piece will act less force to the ground in the moment where the magnet is passing, but no energy is spent or lost.


Only if the magnet is strong enough to lift the iron piece, the spinning magnet will loose some konetic energy each time the iron piece is lifted, and finally stop.
The lost kinetic energy is causd by the iron piece which is accelerating towards the magnet.


The same, or similar, thing wil happen to the "U". As long the magnet appearently can force the liquid to flow, the liquid will stop flowing already before it has started. So absolutely nothing will happen.


Vidar
« Last Edit: February 24, 2015, 06:50:05 PM by Low-Q »

 

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