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Author Topic: Mutual respect, prejudice, safety, and personal responsibility  (Read 43097 times)

Jimboot

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Re: Mutual respect, prejudice, safety, and personal responsibility
« Reply #75 on: February 19, 2015, 11:35:48 PM »
What is a person, besides their behaviour? On the internet, the only observable characteristic of a person is their behaviour.
Exactly - you are what you publish, as my good mate David Meerman Scott says. (Business author)

Jimboot

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Re: Mutual respect, prejudice, safety, and personal responsibility
« Reply #76 on: February 19, 2015, 11:46:20 PM »
What is a person, besides their behaviour? On the internet, the only observable characteristic of a person is their behaviour.
I'll take this a step further, in my day job I'm constantly working with business owners on their personal & business brands. Sometimes I have to explain to a client that what they are publishing in text makes them sound like a pompous arsehole and they need to change the tone of what they publish. Yes sarky, the tone. Text is not a good medium for communication when compared with AV. That's how emoticons evolved.
You dickhead  ;D
is very different to
You dickhead!
So if all people know of you is your text then you better make sure it's how you want to be perceived. If you don't care that's fine, just don't be surprised if people disrespect you if you disrespect others. It's social media 101.


sarkeizen

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Re: Mutual respect, prejudice, safety, and personal responsibility
« Reply #77 on: February 20, 2015, 12:29:01 AM »
Yes sarky, the tone.
A better word would be inference or connotation.  Such as using a diminutive for someones name or title connotes disrespect.
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If you don't care that's fine, just don't be surprised if people disrespect you if you disrespect others.
Which isn't really what this was about.  Clearly anything you feel disrespected by does not validate any and all disrespect...or maybe to you it does but that would kind of make you the "bad" person.  So I'm not sure where you're going with this. :)
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It's social media 101.
So according to you anything you type should be what you want to be known by.  So....the common trope that people who consult on social media are often perceived as unskilled know-nothings...should mean what here? :)

sarkeizen

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Re: Mutual respect, prejudice, safety, and personal responsibility
« Reply #78 on: February 20, 2015, 01:53:50 AM »
On this and related forums calling someone a shill or government agent is almost like calling someone a child molester or a rapist.  There is no way that you can know that and the vast majority of what you see with respect to electronic circuits around here is at an introductory high school level.  That's just the realty.  So you should not use these terms because you can't possibly know this is true, and there is no real rational basis for stating it anyway.
This is another good point which differentiates "shill".  It's almost entirely an unknowable based on the information you could gather from this board.

orbut 3000

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Re: Mutual respect, prejudice, safety, and personal responsibility
« Reply #79 on: February 20, 2015, 02:02:47 AM »
OTOH, only a shill would say that.

Jimboot

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Re: Mutual respect, prejudice, safety, and personal responsibility
« Reply #80 on: February 20, 2015, 09:59:53 AM »
A better word would be inference or connotation.  Such as using a diminutive for someones name or title connotes disrespect. Which isn't really what this was about.  Clearly anything you feel disrespected by does not validate any and all disrespect...or maybe to you it does but that would kind of make you the "bad" person.  So I'm not sure where you're going with this. :)So according to you anything you type should be what you want to be known by.  So....the common trope that people who consult on social media are often perceived as unskilled know-nothings...should mean what here? :)


Ok I suspect you're being a contrarian or just like a good argument which is cool. :) firstly have you done much writing? Prose can have a tone. A humorous one, a serious one a abusive one etc. it's the general feel that a piece can carry. For instance


Let's eat, grandma


Can take on foreboding or sinister tone if you omit the comma.


I've written a lot over the last 30 years. Plays, skits blog posts, ad copy etc. I've also performed professionally as an actor as well as appeared as an expert on numerous media outlets. It will probably surprise you to learn that in all these  circles it's common practice to refer to prose or performance as having a "tone" .


I would agree that just because you feel disrespected doesn't mean that was the intent, which validates to some extent sea monkeys argument.


Your last argument is a little confusing. I'm not an social media expert. Im a digital marketing specialist. I would agree that anything you publish is how others perceive you. Like it or not. I can't control what others say about me. All I can control is how I react.


Do you need some online crisis management? I can recommend some fantastic practitioners.


It's easier if you're anon I guess. You can abuse ppl all you like and then pick up another handle when you've destroyed your reputation on the first. One of my good mates who consults to sporting teams tells them just to be yourself on social media.... Unless you're a dickhead

CANGAS

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Re: Mutual respect, prejudice, safety, and personal responsibility
« Reply #81 on: February 20, 2015, 10:05:35 AM »
Quote from: cangas
Quote

    Just a secret between you and me...your "voice" is strongly reminiscent of a rather poorly written Artificial Intelligence program.

Quote from: SARKE
I get that you're just trying to be insulting and that's really your affair but as someone who understand more of that field than you ever will I'd just point out that if I was an AI you could win any Turing-Test style competition bar-none.


You lose. Your guess about my intent is completely, perfectly, wrong.

I had no intention of making you feel insulted. I was simply stating my strong conclusion. I genuinely have concluded that there is a fairly high probability that you are a computer program, not a real human.

Your comment enables me to see your strongly defined paranoia and your well exhibited delusional trait. Which is simply the detritus left in your code by happenstance. Your author probably doesn't realize that his/her personality is flawed and has therefore left his/her strange personality quirks intact during your compiling.

I have another secret to tell you. I know how to be insulting, I have unfortunately indulged myself in far too much vulgar practice in that field. If I had intended to unjustifiably insult you, you would not have had to imagine an insult and construct one in your imagination, out of the innocent words I actually uttered. I am neither inept nor timid at insulting people. Or, BOTS.   

Quote
...... but as someone who understand more of that field than you ever will......

Huh? How can you claim to know how much I know about that, or, any field? You are here doing the same thing you condemn, and your beleaguered friend condemns!! You are making a completely unjustified assumption about me and my knowledge, and, using your assumption to be the base of your insult of me!! Assuming that you are actually human, you are bending over backwards to try to prove yourself to be a very hypocritical, confused, contradictory, person.

CANGAS 138


MileHigh

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Re: Mutual respect, prejudice, safety, and personal responsibility
« Reply #82 on: February 20, 2015, 03:57:44 PM »
Cangas:

You are trolling.  You just made a mostly irrational posting about artificial intelligence that everybody knows is not true, including you.  Also, you are trying to claim that I am "beleaguered?"  Nope.

MileHigh

sarkeizen

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Re: Mutual respect, prejudice, safety, and personal responsibility
« Reply #83 on: February 20, 2015, 05:46:39 PM »
it's the general feel that a piece can carry.
Who is feeling what?  You run into a problem when you say things like: "It's the tone of your sentence".  See if "tone" is how you feel.  Then "your" is the wrong word.  My sentence doesn't have a feeling about you.  It's YOU who have a feeling about my sentence.  Now you may be confused as people in real life say something like:"Your response had an accusing tone".  They usually mean an audible quality - we may disagree as to what that quality implies but it's still referencing a different thing than what you are talking about.  Another pitfall for people who aren't wary is the fact that the term"tone" is used in literature but not like you think or how you've used it.  Literary tone is about how words are deliberately used to evoke a feeling the characters in the work have about something.  This is why my statements did not have a tone.  Also if you're not talking about characters the more correct term is "mood". Your example of removing a comma is none of these things it's  better described as a syntax issue. 

Getting back to what you were originally talking about - that "playing dumb" is namecalling - is again more a question of interpretation.  Like when someone uses the word "gyp" to mean "to cheat or swindle" and someone hearing that is offended because to them it is or has it's origins as a racial epithet.  So again, a better term to describe this kind of thing is "connote".  e.g. Gyp has racial connotations and is best avoided.

Don't worry people can write for decades and have the same misapprehensions that you do with regard to the technical aspects.  If you want I can recommend a few good books. 
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Your last argument is a little confusing. I'm not an social media expert.
I didn't say you were.  I just said you published a consultation on social media and that tends to carry with it the idea of unskilled know-nothings.  :) ...and since you said that deliberately I was wondering what you were trying to imply. :)

sarkeizen

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Re: Mutual respect, prejudice, safety, and personal responsibility
« Reply #84 on: February 20, 2015, 05:56:06 PM »
You lose. Your guess about my intent is completely, perfectly, wrong.
Probably not.
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I had no intention of making you feel insulted. I was simply stating my strong conclusion. I genuinely have concluded that there is a fairly high probability that you are a computer program, not a real human.
Oh, please share your algorithm for determining that a corpus of text is from a computer.  That way we can run it on the corpus of my words and see that you're right.  Whoops...you don't know anything about this do you? So I'm sure that no algorithm is forthcoming. :)
Quote
Huh? How can you claim to know how much I know about that, or, any field?
Simple probability.  I know something about how much I know about that field and with that comes a certain knowledge of the state of the art and if you think a computer can carry on a conversation like this then you what you've been studying is closer to Star Trek than "Foundations and Trends in Machine Learning"  :)

Jimboot

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Re: Mutual respect, prejudice, safety, and personal responsibility
« Reply #85 on: February 20, 2015, 09:39:29 PM »
Who is feeling what?  You run into a problem when you say things like: "It's the tone of your sentence".  See if "tone" is how you feel.  Then "your" is the wrong word.  My sentence doesn't have a feeling about you.  It's YOU who have a feeling about my sentence.  Now you may be confused as people in real life say something like:"Your response had an accusing tone".  They usually mean an audible quality - we may disagree as to what that quality implies but it's still referencing a different thing than what you are talking about.  Another pitfall for people who aren't wary is the fact that the term"tone" is used in literature but not like you think or how you've used it.  Literary tone is about how words are deliberately used to evoke a feeling the characters in the work have about something.  This is why my statements did not have a tone.  Also if you're not talking about characters the more correct term is "mood". Your example of removing a comma is none of these things it's  better described as a syntax issue. 

Getting back to what you were originally talking about - that "playing dumb" is namecalling - is again more a question of interpretation.  Like when someone uses the word "gyp" to mean "to cheat or swindle" and someone hearing that is offended because to them it is or has it's origins as a racial epithet.  So again, a better term to describe this kind of thing is "connote".  e.g. Gyp has racial connotations and is best avoided.

Don't worry people can write for decades and have the same misapprehensions that you do with regard to the technical aspects.  If you want I can recommend a few good books.  I didn't say you were.  I just said you published a consultation on social media and that tends to carry with it the idea of unskilled know-nothings.  :) ...and since you said that deliberately I was wondering what you were trying to imply. :)



the general character or attitude of a place, piece of writing, situation, etc.
"trust her to lower the tone of the conversation"
[color=rgb(135, 135, 135) !important]synonyms:mood[/font], quality[/font], feel[/font], style[/font], note[/font], air[/font], attitude[/font], character[/font], spirit[/font], flavour[/font], grain[/font], temper[/font], humour[/font], effect[/font]; More

i published a consultation on social media? Nope. You're just making things up now and taking things out of context. you also seem to have issues with skilled professionals and keep referring to a massive industry as know nothing's. Like your mate you're anonymous so I guess you don't care but I be wasted too much time on you already. For all I know you could be a bot. They are being used quite a bit these days for writing.

Anyway I can't take anyone seriously, like your mate who is anonymous in a conversation like this. i tend to think of them as cowards.
[/color]


sarkeizen

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Re: Mutual respect, prejudice, safety, and personal responsibility
« Reply #86 on: February 20, 2015, 10:14:02 PM »
raising/lowering tone of the conversation is better classified as idiom.  There's a simple linguistic test for that.  Surprised that a writer doesn't know it. :)
i published a consultation on social media? Nope.
You did call something "social media 101".  That seems to imply some expertise doesn't it? Isn't that consulting?  Seems like it. You posted it here.  That's publishing in your book. So the right answer is "yep". :)
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You also seem to have issues with skilled professionals and keep referring to a massive industry as know nothing's.
You're cute when you're defensive. Also your statement seems to imply that a massive industry is somehow a counter to the idea that it might be entirely peopled with know-nothings.  Is that what you're saying.  Sure seems like it. :)

Anyway if you, the writer were paying attention at some point.  You would see I talk about two things in reference to know-nothings that the idea of social media consulting carries with it (or connotes) that (in my second use) and prior to that I referred to the idea as a common trope. Neither of these things assert the position that you made up.  Seriously for someone who seems to be preaching about words mattering you really don't pay much attention to other peoples.
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but I be wasted
That may be your problem right there. :)
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For all I know you could be a bot.
I think the key phrase there is "for all I know".
Quote
They are being used quite a bit these days for writing.
They are, however writing is not the same thing as conversation.  If you get around to reading what I write it's pretty clear I'm responding to what you say with considerable detail and attention.  Something there is no bot for - at least right now.
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Anyway I can't take anyone seriously, like your mate who is anonymous in a conversation like this.
...and I'm sure you're much more formidable when you're taking things seriously...or one would hope. :)
Quote
i tend to think of them as cowards
This is a good example of rhetoric instead of reason.  Why would someone care if an argument comes from a coward?  Ideas stand or fall on their own.

MileHigh

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Re: Mutual respect, prejudice, safety, and personal responsibility
« Reply #87 on: February 20, 2015, 11:12:45 PM »
Quote
Anyway I can't take anyone seriously, like your mate who is anonymous in a conversation like this. i tend to think of them as cowards.

So after all of the text cranked out beforehand about being offended by the use of the term "disingenuous" now you call nearly everybody on this forum a coward and you show no respect for their desire for personal privacy and safety.  The reason you are public is because you use the medium of the Internet to make your living.  The vast majority of us don't and we have no desire to have kooks looking us up online and in real life.  Go on a web site for sewing and knitting enthusiasts and you will see handles being used in their forums.

The concept of a "handle" has been around since the CB radio days in the 1960s and for all I know it goes back even further than that to shortwave radio operators.

Jimboot

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Re: Mutual respect, prejudice, safety, and personal responsibility
« Reply #88 on: February 21, 2015, 05:03:22 AM »
raising/lowering tone of the conversation is better classified as idiom.  There's a simple linguistic test for that.  Surprised that a writer doesn't know it. :)You did call something "social media 101".  That seems to imply some expertise doesn't it? Isn't that consulting?  Seems like it. You posted it here.  That's publishing in your book. So the right answer is "yep". :)You're cute when you're defensive. Also your statement seems to imply that a massive industry is somehow a counter to the idea that it might be entirely peopled with know-nothings.  Is that what you're saying.  Sure seems like it. :)

Anyway if you, the writer were paying attention at some point.  You would see I talk about two things in reference to know-nothings that the idea of social media consulting carries with it (or connotes) that (in my second use) and prior to that I referred to the idea as a common trope. Neither of these things assert the position that you made up.  Seriously for someone who seems to be preaching about words mattering you really don't pay much attention to other peoples.That may be your problem right there. :)I think the key phrase there is "for all I know". They are, however writing is not the same thing as conversation.  If you get around to reading what I write it's pretty clear I'm responding to what you say with considerable detail and attention.  Something there is no bot for - at least right now....and I'm sure you're much more formidable when you're taking things seriously...or one would hope. :)This is a good example of rhetoric instead of reason.  Why would someone care if an argument comes from a coward?  Ideas stand or fall on their own.


You're using pythoneque logic.

Jimboot

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Re: Mutual respect, prejudice, safety, and personal responsibility
« Reply #89 on: February 21, 2015, 05:04:20 AM »
So after all of the text cranked out beforehand about being offended by the use of the term "disingenuous" now you call nearly everybody on this forum a coward and you show no respect for their desire for personal privacy and safety.  The reason you are public is because you use the medium of the Internet to make your living.  The vast majority of us don't and we have no desire to have kooks looking us up online and in real life.  Go on a web site for sewing and knitting enthusiasts and you will see handles being used in their forums.

The concept of a "handle" has been around since the CB radio days in the 1960s and for all I know it goes back even further than that to shortwave radio operators.


Do you not read the post fully before you hit the quote button?
EDIT: btw I was not offended by any of your posts. To the contrary I found them amusing