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Author Topic: Disappointingly Practical and Simple EM Propulsion with off-the-shelf Parts.  (Read 27411 times)

DROBNJAK

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We are doing such tests in our lab.
Our ion thruster is working in normal atmosphere with oxygen, the only problem is lot of ozone which is not good in higher doses.

Post some photos here, that's interesting.

pavqw

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  • Posts: 56
Unfortunately I am changing construction a lot so it is in few pieces right now.
I need to get at least 300kV supply voltage but in small footprint.

DROBNJAK

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OK, check EM drive here: http://youtu.be/GGTjy6atKMs

There is a lots of material about microwave approach in my original post in the .PDF, if you haven't read it.

As well, there is some discussion on the NASA's space-flight forum:

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=36313.0

pavqw

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PDF is very interesting.
I agree with all the research, very good job.

I am afraid just about one thing of this propulsion. It can be (and actually is) extremely dangerous (power must be few orders higher than microwave owen). Radiation will be propagated kilometres from the source. There must be enormous amount of EM radiation so if it is really based on this, it can be easily detected by spectrometer.
It may cause serious issues for distant conductors - very similarly to induction cooker.

DROBNJAK

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I am looking for somebody to help me with equations. I found the equations for Poynting vector pressure, but need to clarify few details.

If you are good with equations, please have a look

8.2.2 Energy and Momentum of Electromagnetic Waves
http://youtu.be/f6cQWtyzBwQ

- I don't understand do these equations need to be integrated over time and over the area.
- I need solution for super-conducting donuts/toroid shape, 2-3m (6-9ft) in diameter.

On the funny side, I know the price for one of these. United Kingdom and France just paid about £4.0 million for similar size super-conductor that will balance national electricity power grid.

Well, radiation is always reported. The worst case was a lady behind Daytona Airbase. She ended 3 months in hospital and radiation burns included blisters inside eye-sockets and mouth. In Mexico City a girl just popped to a window to check what was producing the light that filled her room and she ended with small amount of sunburns. But people had died etc.

Question is more is it direct or indirect radiation. Like if it is an side-effect.

pavqw

  • Jr. Member
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  • Posts: 56
I can't answer your question very well, but I think that until you are not measuring something dependent on a time duration, then you will not need to integrate it.

I guess key for success is simplicity. You do not need to build prototypes that are metres in diameter. It should be enough to build 10cm prototype that can prove all the theory.
If it will work, then we can build any size knowing that money are not thrown away.
Until it is small it is also cheap.

rassilon

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I am much more inclined towards microwaves, simply because majority of reliable reports point in that direction.

If we examine the Falcon Lake UFO case (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKgPvmCpPpM), the use of plasma is evident. Fortunately, there were no lasting radiation effects for the victim Stephen Michalak.  It is known that microwaves can be used to sustain plasmas. UFO cases involving a "ring" of burnt soil further suggest a circulating plasma toroid. In the Grangemouth UFO case we can see the positioning of small thrusters for maneuverability. With these two observations in mind it appears the propulsion system has multiple components and likely powered by the core reactor.

DROBNJAK

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I am aware of several cases where elongated exaust jets are visible. Its just that I want to keep things organized and not mix different veins of investigation.

DROBNJAK

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Yeah, I wasn't aware of what plasma can do.

Apparently Lockheed Martin is developing this Compact Plasma: which is ideal for spaceships.

But there are few more promising projects, like this one, using something similar to Birkeland currents: Focus Fusion: The Fastest Route to Cheap, Clean Energy

Plasma seems to be even better than super-magnets, because it naturally likes to form structures and in the right configuration can produce stronger concentrations of magnetic field (I need to check this). Here is an absolutely unmissable video explaining, with Maxwell's equations, how plasma creates 'ropes', aka Birkeland's currents:

Dr. Donald Scott: A New Model of Magnetic Structure in Space | EU2014


DROBNJAK

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Hi Everybody,

As of today 212 people downloaded that short .pdf I wrote.

If you don't mind, would you please leave some comments and impressions on the content. I have a lot more material and can extend the .pdf if there is enough interest.

Paul-R

  • Hero Member
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  • Posts: 2086
Unfortunately I am changing construction a lot so it is in few pieces right now.
I need to get at least 300kV supply voltage but in small footprint.
What gap will a voltage of this size be able to jump?

TinselKoala

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  • Posts: 13958
See the graph below:

(Large spheres produce the least distance for a given voltage. Other geometries, like sharp points, result in much longer gap distances for a given voltage.)

conradelektro

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Hi Everybody,

As of today 212 people downloaded that short .pdf I wrote.

If you don't mind, would you please leave some comments and impressions on the content. I have a lot more material and can extend the .pdf if there is enough interest.

Since you are asking for it:

The contents of your PDF-File are a "mind fuck", nothing tangible. One can speculate for ages about what you wrote there.

The proposed three experiments at the end are partly impossible and if they are possible or real, we get no tangible data.

The only way forward I can see is to actually build a contraption and to do some measurements. And if this were sufficiently documented we would have something real to discuss.

I find a discussion about "speculations" very fruitless, it ends in a war of personal unfounded opinions. We need a reproducible experiment, everything else remains a "mind fuck".

Well, some people like "mind fucks", so go ahead. But I am out.

Greetings, Conrad

DROBNJAK

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@TinselKoala: Thanks for a really useful diagram, and in SI units as well !  8)

Hi Conrad, Thanks for the straightforward review. I would hate you to leave, since you can really contribute. Here are some good data, that can serve as a starting point:

  UFO INTERFERENCE WITH VEHICLES AND SELF-STARTING ENGINES