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Author Topic: Thin Magnetic Ramp experiment  (Read 36601 times)

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Thin Magnetic Ramp experiment
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2015, 02:06:48 AM »
The SMOT, and its inverse (the Howard Johnson gate) have been extensively studied on this forum, and several other places,
in a multitude of variations.

the end result was always the same, either an attractive barrier at the end,  or a repulsive barrier at the beginning of the track.

The magnetic effect which causes the object (vehicle, cylinder, cone, ball, roller, etc.) to move
is also the same force that must be overcome to cycle the event.

Thus, best case scenario, negating all other losses... Net Energy = 0

 Demo of H.R. Johnsons' linear gate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6F9I5OiSTE

Floor

  • Guest
Re: Thin Magnetic Ramp experiment
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2015, 08:17:14 PM »
The latest modification considerations for the thin magnet ramp.

1. A longer ramp or no ? -- yes
2. A straight ramp or a curved ramp ? -- curved
3. if a curved ramp,  should it be steeper at the start or at the end ?  -- start

 see the drawing below

                 cheers
                      floor

Offline shylo

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Re: Thin Magnetic Ramp experiment
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2015, 08:48:43 PM »
Hi Floor, I have to disagree, The length of the ramp should be as short as possible with as much rise as possible.
In todays' build I am able to rise 2in. over a distance of 3in.
I will add more tracks to see how high I can go, once high enough you need to let gravity and momentum take over.
If I get it to work , do I win a prize? Lol.
artv 

Floor

  • Guest
Re: Thin Magnetic Ramp experiment
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2015, 11:06:17 PM »
@Shylo

1. Yes you win a prize, if the top of your sphere or cylinder is
free from the ramp at the end of its travel.
and
2. it is higher than it was at the start of the ramp.

So shorter IS BETTER ? he he

What kind of magent arrangement are you useing ?

                      best wishes
                                 floor                           

Offline mscoffman

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Re: Thin Magnetic Ramp experiment
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2015, 07:27:48 PM »
Use a teeter-totter ramp at the top rotating a lead weight flywheel from an old cassette player.
Have a wire stick up through a hole in the ramp and dislodge the runner at high speed point- then get
the runner away from the array magnets fast, back to the array beginning. Maybe in a plastic tubing
pipe.

Floor

  • Guest
Re: Thin Magnetic Ramp experiment
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2015, 07:53:38 PM »
@MSCoffman

I've thought about useing a teeter totter ramp,
but the rest of what you are describing is unclear to me.
Could you do a sketch?
                         
                  cheers
                    floor

Offline shylo

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Re: Thin Magnetic Ramp experiment
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2015, 10:03:51 PM »
I'm not sure about the teeter-totter, A gradual curve maybe? Better to invert it.
I got a second track built today, but I had to change things, It now raises 3in. over a length of 18in.
The ring magnet is 3in. dia., 1" 1/8 thickness. It runs on a steel track, 1"1/4 wide  ~26 awg.
The hard part was getting it to release at the end of the run.
I want to drop it out at the end of its' run, go down a ramp, past a bunch of generating coils,then return to the start, where at the start it gets drawn back in.
artv

Offline truesearch

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Re: Thin Magnetic Ramp experiment
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2015, 10:58:07 PM »
@shylo:


Can you post a photo of your setup? I'd appreciate SEEING how you have it configured.


Thanks in advance and the best of luck to you in your efforts!


truesearch

Offline mscoffman

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Re: Thin Magnetic Ramp experiment
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2015, 02:19:48 PM »
Floor and others,

Picture a teeter-totter ramp where the ball moves to the far end. A teeter-totter has a balance point axle. Correct?
The flywheel would be attached to ramp at the axle point. When the runner unbalances the ramp it has to supply
the energy to get the flywheel to rotate which takes a little time, then the ramp will overshoot a little as the
runner is dislodged at the over end of it's rotation. A fixed spear pokes up through a hole in the ramp and forces
the runner to move along.

I think smot is hard partially because in the usual runner the movement's forward inertia is hard coupled to the
runners rotational momentum. I think the key will be to have a "automatic transmission" that will allow those two RPMxTorque
to be decoupled from one another even though the energies will be equal.

Getting the runner away from the mass of magnets as rapidly as possible is necessary to keep "control" of the runner.

Excellent work to user "shylo" and friends for getting the smot run/rise ratio that high.

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Thin Magnetic Ramp experiment
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2015, 03:20:47 PM »
Magnetic ramps does not work as a selfsustaining machine, and never will.
There is a very simple reason for this:
1. Permanent magnets cannot deliver energy
2. Gravity cannot deliver energy


Both fields are constant, and only if one of them or both are alternating (Delivering energy) you can make this ramp work as you want.


Vidar

Offline shylo

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Re: Thin Magnetic Ramp experiment
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2015, 09:02:19 AM »
Hi Vidar, I'm not sure what the magnet weighs a lb or 2, but the higher it can be dropped from the more work it can do , no?
I've got the 3rd track built ,it is now runs up to 4.5in high.
It is very frustrating though as I add more track ,it keeps changing things.
When the magnet gets ~2in from the start of the track ,magnetism takes over and sucks it in. My runner is a ring magnet, it's the only magnet I use.
If upon release, the magnet were to pass by coils ,on both sides of a declining ramp , back to the start of the track, Will they not generate?
artv

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Thin Magnetic Ramp experiment
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2015, 04:30:00 PM »
Hi Vidar, I'm not sure what the magnet weighs a lb or 2, but the higher it can be dropped from the more work it can do , no?
I've got the 3rd track built ,it is now runs up to 4.5in high.
It is very frustrating though as I add more track ,it keeps changing things.
When the magnet gets ~2in from the start of the track ,magnetism takes over and sucks it in. My runner is a ring magnet, it's the only magnet I use.
If upon release, the magnet were to pass by coils ,on both sides of a declining ramp , back to the start of the track, Will they not generate?
artv
If you drop a magnet from any hight, you have to apply that potential energy by hand in advance. So the work done is actually the work your hand did when lifting the magnet. Later this work can be transfered, but loss will cause some of the energy to transform into heat instead of work.
Adding tracks will only change the conditions of how this track "communicate" with the ball. The ball will respond to any change accordingly. You will never achieve more than a moving ball triggered by energy input.


Vidar

Floor

  • Guest
Re: Thin Magnetic Ramp experiment
« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2015, 07:27:48 PM »
@LowQ

Quote from  LowQ
Both fields are constant, and only if one of them or both are alternating (Delivering energy)
you can make this ramp work as you want."
                                                             End Quote

I am in agreement with you at least in part, under the conditions as described in my
drawings and tests, the input and output should be (according to convention) equal
before losses, and worse after losses.  The magnetic energy would have to leave the sphere
or change in direction and go back to the magnets at the right point in time, in order for there
to be some kind of alternating, from which one could expect greater energy out than energy in.

                                      cheers
                                            floor

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Thin Magnetic Ramp experiment
« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2015, 07:50:26 PM »
@LowQ

Quote from  LowQ
Both fields are constant, and only if one of them or both are alternating (Delivering energy)
you can make this ramp work as you want."
                                                             End Quote

I am in agreement with you at least in part, under the conditions as described in my
drawings and tests, the input and output should be (according to convention) equal
before losses, and worse after losses.  The magnetic energy would have to leave the sphere
or change in direction and go back to the magnets at the right point in time, in order for there
to be some kind of alternating, from which one could expect greater energy out than energy in.

                                      cheers
                                            floor
That sounds simpler than it really is. Alternating a force recuire energy.
If you move 1 kg mass from one place to another, it will still be 1kg. You don't change anything by moving it around - not even with the "right timing". I believe you think more complicated than neccessary.


Vidar

Floor

  • Guest
Re: Thin Magnetic Ramp experiment
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2015, 08:24:39 PM »
@Low-Q

Quote from Low-Q 
"That sounds simpler than it really is. Alternating a force recuire energy.
If you move 1 kg mass from one place to another, it will still be 1kg. You don't change anything by moving it around - not even with the "right timing". I believe you think more complicated than neccessary." End Quote

Which is it ?
"That sounds simpler than it really is."   or  "I believe you think more complicated than neccessary."

What are you saying ?
1. There is no way to get work from magnets.
         or
2. There is no KNOWN way to get work from magnets ?
         or
3. This topic is not interesting to you.