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Author Topic: EEVblog Free Energy B.S.  (Read 9078 times)

Offline Dave Wing

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EEVblog Free Energy B.S.
« on: January 30, 2015, 10:16:18 PM »
Hi all,

FYI...  I was thrown off this form for asking some questions... I feel we're not answered by those over there. I may have been wrong but I just wanted a simple answer to the questions I asked.

Just thought I would let you all know about the video and the fourm thread or threads. The video is #708 as found here... http://youtu.be/hoqF3gjLIyI

And the forum link is here... http://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-708-free-energy-bullshit!/

-Dave Wing

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

EEVblog Free Energy B.S.
« on: January 30, 2015, 10:16:18 PM »

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: EEVblog Free Energy B.S.
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2015, 11:25:47 PM »
Hi all,

FYI...  I was thrown off this form for asking some questions... I feel we're not answered by those over there. I may have been wrong but I just wanted a simple answer to the questions I asked.

Just thought I would let you all know about the video and the fourm thread or threads. The video is #708 as found here... http://youtu.be/hoqF3gjLIyI

And the forum link is here... http://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-708-free-energy-bullshit!/

-Dave Wing

Something appears to be wrong with your links. Try these:

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-708-free-energy-bullshit!/

http://youtu.be/hoqF3gjLIyI

Offline Dave Wing

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Re: EEVblog Free Energy B.S.
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2015, 11:30:03 PM »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: EEVblog Free Energy B.S.
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2015, 11:30:03 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: EEVblog Free Energy B.S.
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2015, 11:37:38 PM »
Oh, most excellent! Thanks for the links.....

Especially since the EEVBlog led me to This Very Important Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljKX9Om7Z4s

Be SURE to watch the "reveal" which is linked from within the above video, towards the end!

Everybody here should watch these two videos, most definitely !!



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: EEVblog Free Energy B.S.
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2015, 03:52:26 AM »
Well.. Dave Wing, I have now read the entire thread at EEVblog, and watched the videos you linked and made. You were banned because the forum moderator decided you must be just a troll, winding them up, because you seemingly  failed to understand/believe/accept the many excellent and detailed explanations and answers you got from the various forum participants. I'm not sure I agree with that, perhaps you are a real seeker who just didn't understand the basics of energy/power/voltage/current relationships, or how energy on a capacitor is determined.

I think also you may  not understand that voltage is _relative_, since you seemed to be confused about why/how a battery can be charged using a circuit essentially like the diagram you posted several times, which I attach below.
 
There are several people on this forum who are very experienced Bedini builders. None of them has ever achieved a selfrunning device, which should be easy _if only_ the claims Bedini has made are correct. In fact, every Bedini builder has found, and will find that the total real charge on the batteries concerned will always be decreasing, averaged across all the batteries, even if the _open circuit_ terminal voltage may sometimes climb on some of the batteries. The batteries always run down eventually. And as far as I am aware, no measurement of the flywheel energy storage or actual power dissipation of a Bedini style pulse motor rotor has ever been done by the Bedini "believers". (But I have done such measurements and calculations on similar pulse motor/recharger designs). The flywheel energy storage can be quite large, and the power dissipation quite small, meaning that the rotor really doesn't take much power to run at its steady speed, and can deliver _peak power_ at a much higher rate than it takes to run it (for a short time as it slows down).

I would encourage you to re-read the EEVblog thread and take the explanations given there to heart. Give them careful consideration. You aren't going to get banned from _this_ forum, so please continue your discussion here if you like... but you will by and large get the same answers and criticisms here that you got over there, from people with similar levels of knowledge. By and large.

Again I thank you for providing the link, because the video I linked above is +highly significant+ and shows (in the "reveal") the method by which many other fakers have tried to bamboozle people into believing their impossible gadgets actually work as demonstrated.

Voltage is always relative to some reference level. In the diagram below, even though both battery terminals are called "positive", one is at a much lower "potential", i.e. voltage, than the other. So Batt3's "positive" is _relatively_ negative wrt the + terminal of Batt1, and hence current will flow normally through the load, powering it and charging the #3 battery. Beware, because it will likely _overcharge_ it with bad effects.

But then you know this already, I think...
 ;)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: EEVblog Free Energy B.S.
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2015, 03:52:26 AM »
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Offline Pirate88179

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Re: EEVblog Free Energy B.S.
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2015, 09:33:57 AM »
TK:

Very well done.  That was a very honest explanation and mini tutorial on the Bedini motor devices.

Bill

Offline Dave Wing

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Re: EEVblog Free Energy B.S.
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2015, 09:06:02 PM »
Quote
Again I thank you for providing the link, because the video I linked above is +highly significant+ and shows (in the "reveal") the method by which many other fakers have tried to bamboozle people into believing their impossible gadgets actually work as demonstrated.

Voltage is always relative to some reference level. In the diagram below, even though both battery terminals are called "positive", one is at a much lower "potential", i.e. voltage, than the other. So Batt3's "positive" is _relatively_ negative wrt the + terminal of Batt1, and hence current will flow normally through the load, powering it and charging the #3 battery. Beware, because it will likely _overcharge_ it with bad effects.

Hi TK,

I am not sure why you posted that trick video? Was it in reference somehow to what I posted in my videos?

The batteries 1&2 will overcharge #3, as you say only if the load is passing to much current through it. But if you select the load accordingly that will not happen. Just using the batteries in the configuration presented as shown, through resistive load tests, that approximately 50% can be recovered for reuse. There may be ways to improve upon this result but that will take time to determine. John Bedini also made the diagram you posted, here, however it is one I edited. See the diagram below for the apparent proper way to use this system.

Now onto the Bedini SG machine, it is not a free energy device, but is only a machine to demonstrate a concept. At best the machine is perhaps 20% mechanically efficient and when it comes to electrical effiency I have not been able to get over 50% total energy recovery. Mind you that is using and abusing my test batteries and running them at C-1 rates or more, they are damaged batteries but still hold a know capacity, as they are frequently load tested by using a CBA. I have no doubt that if I use good deep cycle batteries within their C-20 rate I would see far better than the 50% electrical recovery I see now.

What can be done to increase the mechanical efficiency of a SG? One can simply widen the core area of the coil to cover the full magnet width. You can also add a South Pole in between the North magnets. You can also make the rotor larger in diameter and longer with longer magnets and coils (similar to the widow motor). What would these changes do to the mechanical of the machine? Now if you add a heavy flywheel to the mix how much energy storage does one have now, that would be available for use?

-Dave Wing

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: EEVblog Free Energy B.S.
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2015, 09:06:02 PM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: EEVblog Free Energy B.S.
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2015, 09:35:50 PM »
Dave:

I don't know how you define the mechanical efficiency.   For me when the rotor is spinning the all the mechanical power is used to make the rotor spin.  There is no useful mechanical output.

MileHigh

Offline John.K1

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Re: EEVblog Free Energy B.S.
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2015, 10:14:24 PM »
Dave:

I don't know how you define the mechanical efficiency.   For me when the rotor is spinning the all the mechanical power is used to make the rotor spin.  There is no useful mechanical output.

MileHigh

I would say you can spin motor fast and be able to stop it by hand, or you can spin the motor same fast and it will pluck your hand if you try to stop it :)  I would say some ratio of the input energy and the torque is what you looking for? 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: EEVblog Free Energy B.S.
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2015, 10:14:24 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: EEVblog Free Energy B.S.
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2015, 11:31:02 PM »
If the rotor is not driving a load, MH is right: all the power driving the rotor is used offsetting the losses in bearings, windage, etc. How do you determine the mechanical power dissipation of the rotor? Like this:

You can calculate the rotational Moment of Inertia of your rotor using careful measurements of shapes and masses, and geometry.  Using the MoI you can know just how much energy in Joules is stored in the rotation at a given RPM or angular velocity. Then you can do timed, unpowered rundowns, plotting angular velocity or RPM against time. Obviously you dissipate the entire stored Joules in the entire time of the rundown, so that gives you an "average" power dissipation over the time period.  The instantaneous slope of this rundown plot at any given RPM will then give you the power dissipation in Watts (milliWatts more probably) at that RPM.  So now you can calculate the "mechanical efficiency" of the spinning rotor. If it is spinning at a steady speed, consult your rundown graph and read the power dissipation from the graph. This is the power it is receiving from the drive circuit in order to keep running steadily at that speed, offsetting the losses due to windage, bearing friction, generator effect, etc. (If it was getting more power it would be accelerating, if less, decelerating. Duh.)
If you have generator coils you can do the nonpowered rundowns with generator coils active, and inactive, and this will tell you the "cost" of generating, at any given RPM.  You should do 10 or 20 timed rundowns in each condition so that your data gets a good average, evening out glitches and inevitable experimental errors in uneven conditions.  This might take an entire afternoon of actual hard work, and require either a chart recorder or sustained attention to a stopwatch and a quick pencil. Especially since a heavy rotor on good bearings can take a _long_ time to run down. I've worked with some ( my Mylow testbed for example) that take an hour or more to run down, unpowered, from a quite modest initial spin. So getting enough data to get a good average can take a while.

Mechanical efficiency is then the ratio of the total input power to the power dissipation of the rotor as found using the above procedure.

 

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