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New Battery systems => Saltwater cells => Topic started by: Paul-R on January 29, 2015, 02:29:01 PM

Title: Electrolyte Flow Cell - a big step forward?
Post by: Paul-R on January 29, 2015, 02:29:01 PM

A battery system, combined with capacitors capable of massive power? This should be the answer to electrical storage problems.

Is it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_battery

http://www.mpoweruk.com/flow.htm

How do we build one at home?
.

Title: Re: Electrolyte Flow Cell - a big step forward?
Post by: ramset on January 29, 2015, 04:38:05 PM

Paul
NOW your thinking outside the box....


very nice indeed.
thanks for starting a topic in a much needed area.


respectfully
Chet

Title: Re: Electrolyte Flow Cell - a big step forward?
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 30, 2015, 04:01:54 AM

Paul:

Isn't a Maxwell Boostcap sort of a hybrid of a battery (electrolyte) and a supercap?  They can hold a lot of energy and charge up very, very fast.

Thanks for starting this topic.

Bill

Title: Re: Electrolyte Flow Cell - a big step forward?
Post by: Paul-R on February 01, 2015, 03:10:16 PM

Yes, but they are ruinously expensive. Also, I tremble to think what happens if you are in a car crash and a charged supercap is crushed and shorts out.

We should be able to build a flow battery.

Title: Re: Electrolyte Flow Cell - a big step forward?
Post by: Paul-R on February 01, 2015, 04:35:51 PM

This is the first of 15 patent applications from Enervault:

http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=20100003545

The crucial equations of their Fe, Cr reactions are supposed to be in "Fig 4" which seems to be missing.

Title: Re: Electrolyte Flow Cell - a big step forward?
Post by: sparks on February 01, 2015, 06:59:43 PM

  There are batteries in development where the current to charge the battery is far less than the current output of the battery.   Not OU just a change of electrolyte.   Charge with freshwater to polarize the electrodes and then dump the electrolyte and add saltwater.  Cool thing is that these generators could interrupt less than pure water flow heading for the ocean and mix with seawater in the plant.  Do basically what a marsh does. 
http://news.stanford.edu/news/2011/march/saline-rechargeable-battery-032811.html

Title: Re: Electrolyte Flow Cell - a big step forward?
Post by: Paul-R on February 06, 2015, 03:41:19 PM

Here are patent applications from Enervault:

20140272512     Redox Flow Battery System Configuration For Minimizing Shunt Currents
20140272485     Flow Batteries with Modular Arrangements of Cells
20140272483     Systems and Methods for Rebalancing Redox Flow Battery Electrolytes
20140186731     Operating A Redox Flow Battery With A Negative Electrolyte Imbalance
20140057141     PRESSURE BALANCING OF ELECTROLYTES IN REDOX FLOW BATTERIES
20130084506     MONITORING ELECTROLYTE CONCENTRATIONS IN REDOX FLOW BATTERY SYSTEMS
20130084482     REBALANCING ELECTROLYTES IN REDOX FLOW BATTERY SYSTEMS
20130022852     Porous Electrode with Improved Conductivity
20130011704     Redox Flow Battery System with Multiple Independent Stacks
20130011702     Redox Flow Battery System with Divided Tank System
20120308856     SHUNT CURRENT RESISTORS FOR FLOW BATTERY SYSTEMS
20110223450     Cascade Redox Flow Battery Systems
20110117411     Redox Flow Battery System for Distributed Energy Storage
20110045332     Redox Flow Battery System for Distributed Energy Storage
20100003545     Redox Flow Battery System for Distributed Energy Storage

http://www.pat2pdf.org

Title: Re: Electrolyte Flow Cell - a big step forward?
Post by: Low-Q on April 21, 2015, 06:21:50 PM

Germanys salt water car - it's yours if you have 1.7 million dollars in your pocket:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=141&v=RqLpqR0SPnQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=141&v=RqLpqR0SPnQ)

Title: Re: Electrolyte Flow Cell - a big step forward?
Post by: Qwert on April 21, 2015, 11:51:07 PM

There is something on the rise:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/5-billion-race-build-better-040103658.html

Title: Re: Electrolyte Flow Cell - a big step forward?
Post by: sparks on April 22, 2015, 09:37:24 AM

    This battery quest is bullshit.   They could have been using Thorium as a nuclear fuel and producing Hydrogen from water or methane or oil or sugar whatever forty years ago.   Solar and wind and waves sounds nice but it is bullshit. Take the  nuclear waste and ship it on a throwaway rocket to the Sun.   There isn't enough chemical energy left to even manufacture enough solar panels to even come close to present energy demands.  Never mind siting networking etc.  and batteries suppose to be some kind of solution?  They have the technology to store and transport hydrogen giving you hundreds of times the power density of any battery.   Existing engines could be easily retrofitted for hydrogen fueling or just start making fuel cells.  What the hell is Bill Gates thinking about investing in batteries for?

Title: Re: Electrolyte Flow Cell - a big step forward?
Post by: Qwert on April 22, 2015, 07:37:48 PM

Thorium? I'm green about this. Is it so bad? Even without an alternative?

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=thorium+reactor (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=thorium+reactor)