Mark:

Good to see that you are back and in good health.

Bill

             

Of course not, but your invalid claims are tantamount to being able to both create and destroy energy:  Simply change the ambient pressure.  And that is of course absurd.

Lol,this is funny. Please show where the energy was created and destroyed.

Energy is completely conserved all the way through.  There is no surplus for free work from operating the piston

Incorrect,as the energy has already been accounted for before the valve opens to opperate the piston in the ram.

That change requires less energy into a lower pressure atmosphere than into a higher pressure atmosphere.

Indeed when we are talking gas production. But in a higher pressure atmosphere where less gas is being produced per joule of energy,more heat is produced by the circuit as a whole,and once again,energy is conserved.

That difference leaves more or less energy to break chemical bonds electrolyzing the water.  Higher pressure atmosphere => lower number of molecules of H₂ and O₂ evolved.  If you don't believe me then build your apparatus and attempt to wow the world.

Unlike you infer,i have never disagreed with this. But when this is true,it is also true that the heat energy disipated by the circuit as a whole,is equal to the difference in energy supplied by the battery,and energy stored within the hydroxy gas.Once again,energy is conserved.

That phase change results in stored energy in latent heat of vaporization and the pressure * volume product.

No,a lot of the heat is a result or resistive losses,and chemical reactions within the battery itself.
These are things you should know mark I think maybe it is you who may need some bench time here to wow the world. Take an AC current and pass that through an Elite-no gas production,but heat is produced via the resistance within the Elite. To say,Quote: The enrgy from the battery goes into:  chemical bond splitting--is incorrect,as some of the energy is converted to heat by means i have stated above.

When you remove some of that work from the system by way of the moving piston, it has left the building, Elvis is on stage no more and the amount of energy that you can recover from what remains is now diminished.

Incorrect.
1-the work has already been done before the pneumatic cylinder comes into opperation.
2-Elvis has not left the building,the building just got bigger,and no YOU cant find Elvis,so you assume he is missing.

The accounts remain balanced, and your scheme has failed to produce the excess energy you claim.

Nope-my account has grown,and im afraid the only failure is on your behalf Mark.

.

You are simply and utterly wrong.  Take any volume of gas, and reduce the pressure, IE remove gas, and the remaining energy in the volume has been reduced:

Im begining to think that you make things up as you go Mark-->whats with that?
Please show where we have removed any gas when the piston is opperated?.
NO gas is removed from the system at the point in time when the piston has reached the end of it's travel-->how ever did you come up with-->the volume is reduced when the pressure is reduced.
The pressure is reduced because the storage medium just became larger-->the volume of gas remains the same.

Ideal Gas Law, Charles Law, and Boyle's Law all apply.Yes energy is conserved and no surplus becomes available because of the extra pressure and no extra can be extracted by operating the cylinder.  Only by applying funny accounting do you challenge those facts.

Please show us all where these laws state that storing 2ltr's of gas at 100psi has less energy than 2ltr's of gas stored at 10psi. The funny accounting seems to be coming from your way Mark-not mine.

I am not joining you on your stroll down yours.Actually do the math or do the experiment and maybe you will see past your false assumptions.Now you're thinking.

Indeed i am thinking.
Im thinking that you are not quite as smart as we were all led to believe,or you have some motive for steering others astray with your faulse accusations.

And for those exact reasons your proposed scheme fails.Oops, now you've jumped right on your garden path again.Obviously your hand calculator is not working for you.  Neither is basic logic.

My logic is sound,but i feel as though it is you that has ran out of fingers Mark.Have you actually read some of the things you have said--even in this post alone.
Lets recap. The below quote was from you

Quote:

There you go with the screwy accounting again.  The enrgy from the battery goes into:  chemical bond splitting, and the phase change.

No-some energy is transformed into heat energy via way of resistive heating.There is definitely some screwy accounting going on,but it is not on my behalf.

Quote:

You are simply and utterly wrong.  Take any volume of gas, and reduce the pressure, IE remove gas

No where is gas removed in the system when the piston has reached it's maximum travel.

maybe you will see past your false assumptions

There is definitely some faulse assumptions going on here,but there not mine.

Those here can look back over this post Mark,and see some of the incorrect and faulse statements you have made--remember that. I must say that this isnt looking good for you ATM.

I am not joining you on your stroll down yours.

This is probably for the best,as you dont seem to be able to look at everything that is happening within the system. Missing the heat output via way of resistive heating is something that is common knowledge. There is also the leading of others up the garden path on your behalf with your faulse statements,like-Take any volume of gas, and reduce the pressure, IE remove gas.Like i said,no where is gas removed from the system when the pressure is dropped due to the piston in the ram moving to the opposite end of the cylinder.The storage medium has just became larger,but the volume of gas remains-along with its retained energy.

As much as i dont like to say it Mark,but it seems as though your primary goal here is to shut down peoples devices and claims without fully understanding as to what is actually happening throughout the system as a whole.You also assume that i have not done the said and commonly asked for test-this is also another faulse assumption on your behalf.

I think maybe it's time you spent some time on the bench,and catch up a little here with the described setup.

No no no mark E.the environmental heat flow is in contradiction to our gas compression/decompression cycle.it is a gain not a loss

No no no mark E.the environmental heat flow is in contradiction to our gas compression/decompression cycle.it is a gain not a loss

These are just some of the things Mark has missed profitis. I suspect there may have been a few other concepts that have been passed on by because of misdirection given in there opperation.

Calculations pomodoro: E= RT/nf ln P .whats gona happen to the E if the T goes down a good few kelvin while the p goes up. Whats gona happen if the T goes up while the p comes down.this equasion is clearly fighting with itself in this case.

Burning of fuels yes you will lose a lot of heat in the cycle.but the total energy balance remains unaltered : your total in from battery.combustion total out from burning.environment total from phase changes.3 seperate totals.3 seperate entities

It seems to me the answer to this puzzle is to forget the electrolysis and answer this question: Does the heater produce same heat when supplied by the gas from the tank bypassing the piston, as it does when supplied by the gas that's done the work in the piston.  I don't know the answer but on the surface it looks like an easy to solve thermo calc. What you reckon chaps?

This is a pretty simple problem.  If the piston does external work, then as I said:  that work like Elvis has left the building.  Some of the PE in the gas has been sent out of the system in terms of external work and it is no longer available.  When the piston merely compresses a spring, then Profitis' best friend the second law comes to the fore.

It seems to me the answer to this puzzle is to forget the electrolysis and answer this question: Does the heater produce same heat when supplied by the gas from the tank bypassing the piston, as it does when supplied by the gas that's done the work in the piston.  I don't know the answer but on the surface it looks like an easy to solve thermo calc. What you reckon chaps?

Yes it dose,regardless of what Mark may say. Moving the piston is doing nothing more than enlarging the tank the gas is stored in-->but the amount of gas never changes,thus the energy contained within that gas also never changes-->joules per ltr remains. So regardless of wether the gas go's from the large tank,or via the way of the cylinder first,the same heat energy will be produced by that amount of gas. Mark will give you no reason at all as to how the energy stored within that gas can change just by moving the piston-->because it dosnt change. !ltr of gas is 1ltr of gas regardless of where it must flow to get to the heater. This is why we are useing HHO gas insted of compressed air,as the energy in compressed air is the pressure,where as with HHO,the prssure is a byproduct only-->and it is this byproduct we are gaining our extra energy from.
Mark also states that producing the HHO under pressure requires more energy per mole of gas,and while this is correct,he forgets the fact that more heat energy is produced at the same time-->energy is conserved. So while gas production may go down per joule of energy,heat energy production go's up by the same amount.

Opperating the piston,and gaining energy from this movement comes at no extra cost to the energy input of the system.