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Title: the Ferrocell
Post by: pinestone on January 21, 2015, 05:29:39 PM
Disclaimer:
Although a Ferrocell isn't an overunity device, it delivers a view of magnetism that can aid in the development of magnetically operated devices.
Software can not render a real-life picture of magnetic interactions, but a Ferrrocell can.

I chose to move the discussion here, where it seems more appropriate.

~Timm@Ferrocell USA

btw: I'm not trying to sell them here, only to discuss the technology...
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: sadang on January 21, 2015, 07:07:15 PM
Thank's for answer. Did you think to make a 3D version? Something like a sphere, to facilitate visualization of the magnetic field all around?
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: pinestone on January 21, 2015, 09:30:47 PM
Yes, I have, but I can't find a way to make a sphere within a sphere to seal the fluid equally between the two surfaces.

When you view a cell in real-life, the field is holographic and has a perceived depth. It would be cool to see that in spherical dimensions, too.

You get an idea of what it looks like in this 2-d image taken at a 30 degree angle across the cell surface compared to a computer rendering of the same thing. (the peak and valley are reversed in the graphic)
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: sadang on January 21, 2015, 10:08:20 PM
I know it's really hard to get a double layered glass sphere. Anyway, another solution would be a cubic box made of 5 squared ferrocells. This box is more easy to do, and still show the magnetic field lines in real 3D. And the holographic effect will be amazing as you move the eyes around the box!

Or another solution, would be to prepare a half or a quarter of a sphere (maybe better using some clear plastic instead of glass), place it in a vertical position in a fix point at the edge of a horizontally disc, which can be rotated at a great speed around its own center, where can be easily placed any magnet.

Maybe you already thought to these solutions, but I just want to tell about them.

Now, after many, many experiments you made, what is your opinion about the official magnetic field lines? I mean about their direction of movement and shape?
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: pinestone on January 21, 2015, 10:24:00 PM
I don't think of 'field lines', more like regions of flux concentrations. A Ferrocell will pass light where the flux "isn't" (the lowest potential), and appears in a different vector in relation to the location of incoming light.
Since I'm used to thinking of fields like this, it's difficult for me to have an opinion about 'textbook' field lines.

Direction? Yes. Obviously.
When a magnetic field is induced into a cell, nanoparticles move from a random mass into an orderly pattern.
The particles form groups of microscopic chains that flow only in one direction.
http://www.ferrocell.us/images/400x%20particle%20chains.png

Shape? A dipole field at rest (no other magnets or ferro-objects around) has a spherical shape. Electromagnetic fields are perfectly shaped, but magnetic fields have irregularities.
When you introduce other fields or ferro objects, each field changes "shape" depending on each objects polarity, field strength or susceptibility.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgAvofQ6zHk&feature=youtu.be

Here's an image with a lot of info. A cylinder magnet is parallel to the cell surface and backlit with a small lamp.
You can see the bulge on the left and indent on the right (center) where the light is coming thru the mixture at the lowest field potential: http://www.ferrocell.us/images/2-anothermoebius3.jpg (http://www.ferrocell.us/images/2-anothermoebius3.jpg)

I think this experiment indicates "torque" on the particles.
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: franco malgarini on January 22, 2015, 06:33:45 PM
Excuse me; this reactor is usable for tratment of gas?






_____________________________
http://autocostruire.forumcommunity.net/
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: pinestone on January 22, 2015, 07:12:21 PM
Interesting concept. I made a comment and erased it. At first i wasn't sure what you were trying to achieve.
After looking at your sketch once more, I'm interested in trying this experiment.

To manipulate the laser, the magnets have to be close to the cell.

so we'd be shooting lasers at each other thru a couple of anti-vortex fields (probably in opposition)...

cool 8)
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: sadang on January 22, 2015, 09:09:02 PM
That image with the vertical magnet and the back light is a very interesting one. That shape clearly indicate a specific arrangement of the ferrofluid particles, so that they reflect and refract the light in this manner. Is hard for me to draw a conclusion based only on my imagination and visual interpretation of that image, but I clearly see there a king of torque.

However, I think the best results related to the shape and structure of the magnetic field ( seen as magnetic lines of force or magnetic flux gradients ) of a permanent magnet, can be obtained using a ferrocell with light around its circumference. In this case the light will be in the same plane with the ferrofluid solution, and we can talk more than 80% only about reflection not refraction, as in the case of a back light.

The last image you posted is amazing! I suppose you used four magnets arranged N,S,N,S on a color led illuminated ferrocell. Could you please make a brief description of that experiment?
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: pinestone on January 22, 2015, 11:23:52 PM
Many lights spaced a few degrees apart around the circumference of a cell result in a typical Gaussian view of the field(s).
Single point source light resolves into a single ring.
Introducing laser changes everything. When you pump a laser beam into the null zone (lowest potential),
the beam diverges into two "wings" that form a parabola that "rolls around the edge":
example here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iwc-oBGSGeg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iwc-oBGSGeg)

As for the quadrupole pix in the previous post, that image was taken by a fellow collaborator, Michael Snyder.
There are 4 magnets of the same polarity offset 90 degrees on the cell (black rectangles).
It's edge-lit with 36 RGBY led's facing inward. He put black paper between the cell and magnets to improve contrast.
He's also using a $3000.00 camera. :o

heres a larger view: http://ferrocell.us/images/DSCF6664.jpg (http://ferrocell.us/images/DSCF6664.jpg)
the little speckles are debris in and on the cell.

Let me add one more thing...if you look closely where different color bands cross each other, they make a new color.
Color addition and subtraction are key to light computing.
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: konduct on January 23, 2015, 01:27:56 AM
Wow. It's been so long since I've been working on magnets and alt energy ... I was working on something the other day and taking to a friend about how I was kicking myself for not picking up one of your lenses. Sincerely glad to see you on here! Made my day.

(Edit ... found it) Awesome ... What makes you call it a cell? Are the different colors just different color leds?
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: pinestone on January 23, 2015, 02:07:50 AM
Good to hear from you again, konduct
I haven't been around for a while, either. I was totally involved with another project.
But got back into the cell last year to pick up where I left off in 2009.
I did a demo at the IEEE Photonics Conference last October in San Diego Ca and blew some minds.
Most people didn't have a clue and couldn't quite get their minds around it.
Stunned would be a good word. These were scientists!

Recently I decided to simplify things. It really is a cell, not a lens. And the ferro part is a no-brainer.

Yes, the previous pix has a ring of LED's around it. 36 RGBY.
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: pinestone on January 31, 2015, 04:15:57 PM
continued...

Here's a pix from one of my latest experiments: a ring of 36 (each 10 deg apart) RGBW LED's around a 1.2 T cube magnet
 under a 4mmx100mm cell. I've inserted a white plastic ring between the magnet and LED's to block the direct light.
This is a prime example of Surface Plasmons following the field. ;D



see hi-res pix at http://www.ferrocell.us/images/cube%20magnet%20edge-lit%20with%20blocking%20ring.JPG (http://www.ferrocell.us/images/cube%20magnet%20edge-lit%20with%20blocking%20ring.JPG)

Surface Plasmons: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_plasmon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_plasmon)
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: TinselKoala on January 31, 2015, 07:12:57 PM
It's nice that in that image we can finally see that the LEDs are actually separate red, green, blue and white, not single units. So the ferrocell itself isn't separating white light into its components, but rather reflecting the light from the individually colored LEDs that are in spatially separate locations.

I think this clears up certain .... shall we say...  misconceptions about the operation of the device in the description given by someone else.
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: pinestone on January 31, 2015, 08:28:03 PM
...  misconceptions about the operation of the device in the description given by someone else.

Well I've had a difficult time explaining this technology. Only recently, 2 researchers confirmed the same fundamental effects independent from one another. It's been determined that it generates surface plasmons using LED and other low-level light sources.
The results we have from laser experiments haven't been verified yet... they are mind-boggling.
It's an on-going process that I probably won't live long enough to see integrated into computers and communication devices. And plasmons are the future. I've come up with a different recipe than the 'status-quo' have and without help from independent experimenters, It doesn't have a chance.
If I was rich, I'd just give them away. Actually, I have given out quite a few over the past 10 years. ::)

As for the color thing, there is a bit of 'doppler shift' going on, too. Blue slows down to violet, red down to orange-red, and green changes hue.
My next experiment will show spectrometer graphs of the cells' absorption spectrum at different colors (wavelengths) as they pass thru.
The light ring contains 9 each of red, green, blue and white LED's. Look closely at the previous picture and you can see how the spectrum changed.
White is now yellow. Blue is violet...

In a nut-shell, this cell is making new waves from light and magnetism.
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: Jimboot on February 01, 2015, 09:54:05 AM
Every school should have one.
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: sadang on February 01, 2015, 10:14:14 AM
A great picture, at least for me! Because I'm interested in ferrocel's images only to understand the magnetism in its intimate structure, I'm trying to pay attention mainly to all these aspects.

What I see here is rather a RGBY than a RGBW ring of LED and their effect over the ferrofluid particles in the presence of a magnetic field. What I see here (at least in my interpretation) are effectively the magnetic lines of force and their shape around the magnet, due to reflection of light by the coherent alignment of the ferrocel particles. Of course this is only an in plane view of the magnetic lines, only a slice of the entire complex and beautiful 3D structure of the magnetic field.

Why is this image valuable for me is due to that white line that I drew over the image, and where the colored lines appear to end. This happen due to the angle shift of the ferrocel particles so that the light is reflected under a different angle, making their arrangement invisible to the eye. Changing my eyes angle of view, the lines will continue, form here the holographic effect that can be achieved by these ferrocel units in the presence of magnets.

Going further with my analysis, that shift of ferrocel's particles angle along that white line (or the vertical half of the magnet) tell me the magnetic lines of force change their polarization effect over the ferrocel's particles. Why that happen in a vertically structured and discrete continuous lines of force of the magnetic field?

Another thing I don't understand is why only one color for a single colored line? Why the color don't mix along a single line of magnetic field? The polarization of the ferrocel particles by the magnetic field make them to obey the same angle along one single colored line, but don't explain why they reflect only one color! There is something I miss?
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: TinselKoala on February 01, 2015, 12:14:52 PM
That picture sure doesn't seem like the hues of the lines are any different than what is being emitted by the LEDs. The camera of course has a different color response than the eye does, hence the "blue" looks more purple in the camera image ... but the LEDs and the lines look very close in hue in the picture.

Spectroscopy is probably the only way really to tell if there is an actual frequency shift happening.
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: pinestone on February 01, 2015, 03:18:17 PM
Every school should have one.

That's the plan :D
It's in the works and we already have a test-bed school near me...
a nanotech-quantum-photonic-plasmonic experiment to open young (and old) minds.
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: pinestone on February 01, 2015, 03:55:54 PM
That picture sure doesn't seem like the hues of the lines are any different than what is being emitted by the LEDs. The camera of course has a different color response than the eye does, hence the "blue" looks more purple in the camera image ... but the LEDs and the lines look very close in hue in the picture.

Spectroscopy is probably the only way really to tell if there is an actual frequency shift happening.

Yes as I said earlier, there is a little phase shift of light when it passes thru the cell. It's a down-converted sort of thing and a result of Rayleigh Scattering: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayleigh_scattering (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayleigh_scattering)

I'll post the spectrometer test results soon and you will see how it shifts light down in frequency. Blue becomes violet- the other colors aren't so easily recognized without instruments.
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: pinestone on February 01, 2015, 04:13:10 PM
A great picture, at least for me! Because I'm interested in ferrocel's images only to understand the magnetism in its intimate structure, I'm trying to pay attention mainly to all these aspects.

What I see here is rather a RGBY than a RGBW ring of LED and their effect over the ferrofluid particles in the presence of a magnetic field. What I see here (at least in my interpretation) are effectively the magnetic lines of force and their shape around the magnet, due to reflection of light by the coherent alignment of the ferrocel particles. Of course this is only an in plane view of the magnetic lines, only a slice of the entire complex and beautiful 3D structure of the magnetic field.

Why is this image valuable for me is due to that white line that I drew over the image, and where the colored lines appear to end. This happen due to the angle shift of the ferrocel particles so that the light is reflected under a different angle, making their arrangement invisible to the eye. Changing my eyes angle of view, the lines will continue, form here the holographic effect that can be achieved by these ferrocel units in the presence of magnets.

Going further with my analysis, that shift of ferrocel's particles angle along that white line (or the vertical half of the magnet) tell me the magnetic lines of force change their polarization effect over the ferrocel's particles. Why that happen in a vertically structured and discrete continuous lines of force of the magnetic field?

Another thing I don't understand is why only one color for a single colored line? Why the color don't mix along a single line of magnetic field? The polarization of the ferrocel particles by the magnetic field make them to obey the same angle along one single colored line, but don't explain why they reflect only one color! There is something I miss?
That's one reason I started posting here on OU. Everyone here is a magnet nut and interested in finding out more than the textbooks can show.
I love to answer questions about the cell !

The holographic effect comes from chaining and assembly of the nanoparticles while influenced by a field. Similar to a holographic diffraction grating, but not rigid and solid like 'theirs'. see the green pix: its a close up of the particle chains (dual helix's) in a field.

The white line comes from the duct tape I wrapped the neo magnet with. The edges glow white, but they are black. I did this to cut down on reflections from the shiny coating (nickel) on the neo. I don't completly understand your question- maybe rephrase it for me?
See the second pix: It's taken at a 45 degree angle to the lens. You can see the tape more clearly here.

And the light is not reflecting. Combining the magnetic field with light produces surface waves from the nanoparticles (surface plasmons).
These plasmons follow the lowest potential of the field (not N or S) and each LED is fixed at a different angle (each 10 degrees), so we see each light following it's own path.

I just added a 3rd pix of the pole (not sure if its N or S, I didn't measure it). There is a small sheet of black plastic on top of the magnet.
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: sadang on February 02, 2015, 11:01:42 AM
...see the green pix: its a close up of the particle chains (dual helix's) in a field.

Could you please develop a bit this sentence? On that green image I see only a single line and its shadow, due to the intense light used when the photo was made. What you mean by "dual helix"?

Regarded your opinion that light interact with magnetic field, here I think we have a bit separate opinions. But I consider it is not important in my actual interest on understanding the shape of the magnetic field shown by a ferrocel.

---#---

I asked two questions and I'll try to develop a bit each one bellow:
1.
Quote
"Going further with my analysis, that shift of ferrocel's particles angle along that white line (or the vertical half of the magnet) tell me the magnetic lines of force change their polarization effect over the ferrocel's particles. Why that happen in a vertically structured and discrete continuous lines of force of the magnetic field?"

- My question was somehow rhetorical, trying to emphasize the current well known shape of the magnetic field around a magnet could not be as it learned today, taking into account that shift of angle of ferrofluid particles that create the impression the colored lines end at the middle of the magnet (along the white line I drew over the magnet).

- Even if we take into consideration the surface plasmon descriptions of the phenomenon, this does not explain why the colored lines end along the white line drew by me, or why the chains of nanoparticles end there, or why the light doesn't continue its interactions with the magnetic field along the entire length of the physical magnet, to make a single long colored line. Something is happening there, in that area! And i think is something related to the shape of the magnetic field and its internal structure.


2.
Quote
"Another thing I don't understand is why only one color for a single colored line? Why the color don't mix along a single line of magnetic field? The polarization of the ferrocel particles by the magnetic field make them to obey the same angle along one single colored line, but don't explain why they reflect only one color! There is something I miss?"

- I asked this question trough my way of understanding of how a ferrocel works, ie trough the reflection of light by the nanoparticles from ferrofluid. Considering this way, I don't understand why the color don't mix along the red line for example. Why there is not a mix of colors, because all colors arrive at and touch that chain of nanoparticles. Why only the red ligh is reflect?

Even if we consider the surface plasmons, it's hard for me to not see the implications of the magnetic field structure in the final result obtained. The magnetic field dictate the shape and alignment of the chains of the ferrofluid nanoparticles, and the colored light only visually highlights them. The second image is relevant for this aspect. And the main question still remain: why color don't mix along a single line of chained nanoparticles?

---#---

Anyway, the last image show clearly the convergent  spiraling model formed by the nanoparticles chains, arranged in their turn in this way by the magnetic field of the permanent magnet. This convergent spiraling model is just a 2D projection in the plane of the ferrocel, of the 3D shape (static or dynamic is another discussion) of the magnetic field. Just a slice from the 3D shape of the magnetic field around the permanent magnet.

This 3D shape can be intuited looking at the length and the curve direction of the colored lines. The upper lines are CCW and have full length and the same brightness until they reach the central convergence point, the central funnel. The lower lines are CW and short length and reduce their brightness as approach (in reality as them moves away) by the central funneling column, in their path to the bottom funnel. Of course the CW and CCW are simple a matter of interpretation relative to the point of reference of the observer, but they can be seen both as dextrogire dynamics. What is your point of view regarded the aspects exposed by me above?
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: pinestone on February 02, 2015, 01:47:17 PM
Could you please develop a bit this sentence? On that green image I see only a single line and its shadow, due to the intense light used when the photo was made. What you mean by "dual helix"?

Regarded your opinion that light interact with magnetic field, here I think we have a bit separate opinions. But I consider it is not important in my actual interest on understanding the shape of the magnetic field shown by a ferrocel.

---#---

I asked two questions and I'll try to develop a bit each one bellow:
1.
- My question was somehow rhetorical, trying to emphasize the current well known shape of the magnetic field around a magnet could not be as it learned today, taking into account that shift of angle of ferrofluid particles that create the impression the colored lines end at the middle of the magnet (along the white line I drew over the magnet).

- Even if we take into consideration the surface plasmon descriptions of the phenomenon, this does not explain why the colored lines end along the white line drew by me, or why the chains of nanoparticles end there, or why the light doesn't continue its interactions with the magnetic field along the entire length of the physical magnet, to make a single long colored line. Something is happening there, in that area! And i think is something related to the shape of the magnetic field and its internal structure.


2.
- I asked this question trough my way of understanding of how a ferrocel works, ie trough the reflection of light by the nanoparticles from ferrofluid. Considering this way, I don't understand why the color don't mix along the red line for example. Why there is not a mix of colors, because all colors arrive at and touch that chain of nanoparticles. Why only the red ligh is reflect?

Even if we consider the surface plasmons, it's hard for me to not see the implications of the magnetic field structure in the final result obtained. The magnetic field dictate the shape and alignment of the chains of the ferrofluid nanoparticles, and the colored light only visually highlights them. The second image is relevant for this aspect. And the main question still remain: why color don't mix along a single line of chained nanoparticles?

---#---

Anyway, the last image show clearly the convergent  spiraling model formed by the nanoparticles chains, arranged in their turn in this way by the magnetic field of the permanent magnet. This convergent spiraling model is just a 2D projection in the plane of the ferrocel, of the 3D shape (static or dynamic is another discussion) of the magnetic field. Just a slice from the 3D shape of the magnetic field around the permanent magnet.

This 3D shape can be intuited looking at the length and the curve direction of the colored lines. The upper lines are CCW and have full length and the same brightness until they reach the central convergence point, the central funnel. The lower lines are CW and short length and reduce their brightness as approach (in reality as them moves away) by the central funneling column, in their path to the bottom funnel. Of course the CW and CCW are simple a matter of interpretation relative to the point of reference of the observer, but they can be seen both as dextrogire dynamics. What is your point of view regarded the aspects exposed by me above?

Good questions!
As for the green pix, this image was taken by a fellow collaborator (Jack Shearer). Before he died (in 2008) he told me he used a 'dark field' lighting technique to make that pix. I'm not a microscope guy, but he was.

Wiki on Darkfield: "Dark field microscopy is a technique for improving the contrast of unstained, transparent specimens. Dark field illumination uses a carefully aligned light source to minimize the quantity of directly transmitted (unscattered) light entering the image plane, collecting only the light scattered by the sample. Dark field can dramatically improve image contrast – especially of transparent objects – while requiring little equipment setup or sample preparation. However, the technique suffers from low light intensity in final image of many biological samples, and continues to be affected by low apparent resolution."

The chains we see are not shadows. The chains are wrapped around each other, and we only see the chains that are in focus- its a 'sea of chains' and there are many more we see look like shadows, but they are out of focus. I used Photoshop's green filter tool. It was originally a black and white pix. Green shows more detail than the b&w photo did.

These 2-d photos do not show the depth (holographic) as in real life. Yes it seems the flux spirals around and there is something else on the poles, too.

photo 1: Here's a straight-on view thru a ring magnet using an edge-lit cell (photo by Michael Snyder, another collaborator):
He's using a different technique than I am. but you can see its much more symmetrical at a zero degree angle. The photos I uploaded before are taken at a 45 degree angle and show more activity than his does.

I don't have answers to all the questions, that's why I'm still in the research and development stage. More people experimenting with my cells will help answer some of these difficult questions (it's been 10 years since my first discovery) and the scientific community doesn't care unless they can get money to do research on it. Seems nobody does science for science sake anymore- its all about the money!

photo 2: There are 'lines' going to the top pole and lines going to the bottom pole. sometimes they cross and sometimes they don't. Where they do cross, a new color emerges (second pix also by Mike Snyder) is a quadrupole (4 magnet poles same polarity). The images I posted earlier are only using one magnet.
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: pinestone on February 02, 2015, 03:02:10 PM
Here are 3 colored LED's and their spectrometer response thru a medium cell (transmission mode= absorption):

The first thing we notice with the blue LED is how much of it is absorbed by the glass (yes silicon eats blue). The reference graph indicates a peak wavelength of 478.14 nm, and after passing thru the cell it drops to 488.89 (longer wavelength).
The spectrometer shows peaks for silicon, iron and other elements of the cell. These peaks are noticeable with green LED too.
But red passes much easier thru the cell and we don't have enough sensitivity to see the peaks in that image.
The green graph reference is 517.91 and drops to 522.91 when it passes thru the cell. Yes, its a slight frequency shift, but a noticeable hue change.
The red graph reference is 625.14 and drops to 626.31 after passing thru the cell. That's not much of a change and when you look at photographs of red thru the cell, it doesn't appear to shift much.
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: pinestone on February 02, 2015, 05:58:51 PM
...Something is happening there, in that area! And i think is something related to the shape of the magnetic field and its internal structure...

Even if we consider the surface plasmons, it's hard for me to not see the implications of the magnetic field
structure in the final result obtained. The magnetic field dictate the shape and alignment of the chains of the
ferrofluid nanoparticles, and the colored light only visually highlights them...

Just a slice from the 3D shape of the magnetic field around the permanent magnet...

This 3D shape can be intuited looking at the length and the curve direction of the colored lines. The upper lines are CCW and have full length and the same brightness until they reach the central convergence point, the
central funnel. The lower lines are CW and short length and reduce their brightness as approach (in reality as them moves away) by the central funneling column, in their path to the bottom funnel. Of course the CW and
CCW are simple a matter of interpretation relative to the point of reference of the observer, but they can be seen both as dextrogire dynamics. What is your point of view regarded the aspects exposed by me above?

I think this one image will answer all of these questions and observations.
It's a photo of a 1T cylinder magnet with black shrink tubing over it (reduce reflections).
I have it setting on the tip of my finger, resting one pole on the rear face of a Ferrocell.
The lighting is above the magnet and behind the cell.
You can see the 'flux' spiraling up and over the pole and twisting around the center (Bloch region) where it's difficult to see clearly, but the flux continues to the other pole.
It was one of the experiments that got me excited to explore deeper.
...one of the first 10 or so pictures I ever took.
Back in 2005.
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: sadang on February 02, 2015, 06:46:50 PM
You have more experience and more practice than me with these ferrocels, and I can't afford to discuss more on them than using my imagination, knowledge and understandings.

Quote
The chains we see are not shadows. The chains are wrapped around each other, and we only see the chains that are in focus- its a 'sea of chains' and there are many more we see look like shadows, but they are out of focus. I used Photoshop's green filter tool. It was originally a black and white pix. Green shows more detail than the b&w photo did.

Because an image makes as 1000 words let me show what I meant trough shadows. I marked with arrows the nanoparticle chains and its shadow on the bottom surface of the ferrocel or somewhere under the chain, difuzed in the mineral oil.

But in the case of photo made under a dark field microscopy, things change at 180 degrees. What is dark is the chain of ferrofluid nanoparticles and what is brighter are its edges, or more accurately the light reflected from the chain edges.

Only through this new perspective of darkfield microscopy, I can sense and understand at the same time, that these chains are twisted around each other, as is emphasized by me in your images. But still remain one question, what was the direction and polarity of the magnetic flux whaen was made this photo?

Regarded the second photo where I see intuitivelly and in depth the shape of the magnetic field, I still continue to sustain my assertion, due to what I explained in previous message. I suppose if you will change the viewing angle the lines will change their position but will keep their spiral shape. So, as you come closer to vertical point os symetry of the magnet the lines will become perfectly symmetrical, but always keeping the spiral shape. My conclusion is the chains of nanoparticles have this spiral shape over, only the light reflected by them (or reflected/emited by the surface plasmons) change in accordance with the view angle.

I see these CCW and CW and in depth spiraling lines even on the sunflower beatiful image you attached in the last message. Here I see that both CCW and CW red lines enter in the upper funnel, not only one as in the previous image, which means for me that the symetrical dynamics of the magnetic flux, keeps its aparent opposed symetry on both ends of the magnet, and in both vertical and horizontal planes.

If, I'm wrong please correct me, because I don't have a ferrocel, and use only my mind, knowledge and imagination.

In the last image you posted, I see the lines go out form the magnets and anter in the central vortex, made by the interaction of that four magnetic fields. In clasical view they repel each other, in the center appearing an area of great pressure. Acording to this image in the center appear an area of very low pressure, and I dare to say an area of great vortexial speed. Of course, in the plane of ferrocel we can't discuss about a 3D vortexial dynamic, but only about a flat area of low pressure. The colored lines coming from magnets and seeming to get into that central point, are actually projections in the plane of the ferrocel of the magnetic field lines coming from the two upper and lower magnetic poles. And I again here ask: why only a single color on a line, when for sure at that chain or chains of nanoparticle arrive all RGBY colors? A future theme of study!

I see you emphasized two times until now the changing of the color of lines where they corss each other. I don't have an answer of this phenomenon and in my opinion it can be placed besides my question about why one single color for a line! I have in mind something related to the wave length of light and its interactions with the surface plasmons, but I have to deepen this subject.

You take too fast with so many messages. To the last one with the experiment from 2005 give me some time to understand it deeply and to make my own interpretation of the phenomena, and I'll be back to you with my own point of view. Anyway, you made a great work with all these ferrocels on the way of udnerstanding the real structure of the magnetic field, and not only!
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: pinestone on February 02, 2015, 08:01:25 PM
...what was the direction and polarity of the magnetic flux whaen was made this photo?

...I suppose if you will change the viewing angle the lines will change their position but will keep their spiral shape. So, as you come closer to vertical point os symetry of the magnet the lines will become perfectly symmetrical, but always keeping the spiral shape. My conclusion is the chains of nanoparticles have this spiral shape over, only the light reflected by them (or reflected/emited by the surface plasmons) change in accordance with the view angle.

...which means for me that the symetrical dynamics of the magnetic flux, keeps its aparent opposed symetry on both ends of the magnet, and in both vertical and horizontal planes.

If, I'm wrong please correct me, because I don't have a ferrocel, and use only my mind, knowledge and imagination.

In the last image you posted... And I again here ask: why only a single color on a line, when for sure at that chain or chains of nanoparticle arrive all RGBY colors? A future theme of study!

I see you emphasized two times until now the changing of the color of lines where they corss each other. I don't have an answer of this phenomenon and in my opinion it can be placed besides my question about why one single color for a line! I have in mind something related to the wave length of light and its interactions with the surface plasmons, but I have to deepen this subject...

You take too fast with so many messages...
Sorry I don't know what the polarity was. I wasn't taking good notes in the beginning.

And you are correct about ones 'point of view'. It's relative to the observer...hmmmmm where have we heard this before?
Ones view rotates around a center point, ie. spherical.

Yes, an undisturbed magnetic field is spherical (ball-like) and mostly symmetrical. Impurities in the materials cause the field to have irregularities.
A field from an electromagnet is very symmetrical, tho.

Your imagination is great. You've got a good idea of the 3-d field from looking at 2-d pix!

I demonstrated my Ferrocells at a IEEE Photonics Conference in California last October and none of the leading-edge scientists could explain how the colors mix either-
so don't feel dumb! We have a couple of theories, but I'm into experimental physics, not theoretical.
Once we've managed to get the same conclusions from different researchers, I'll commit to fact.

Fast? This is my life. I do nothing else but work on this project and right now I'm spreading the word...forums, twitter, facebook etc.
I'm getting old and want to see this technology take off before I kick the bucket!
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: sadang on February 02, 2015, 10:14:23 PM
If I do not get you bored, I want to continue this analysis.

Quote
You can see the 'flux' spiraling up and over the pole and twisting around the center (Bloch region) where it's difficult to see clearly, but the flux continues to the other pole.

Hmmm! I see the entire phenomenon with other eyes! Even if this image is not too clear, I still consider it clear enough to have my own interpretation. Where you see the flux spiraling up, I see it spiraling down. Now let me to explain my point of view.

The light from the white LED touch the ferrocel all over its round surface, but hits the eye along the straight line from the LED trough the ferrocel, intersecting the ferrocel from the current angle of viewing, exactly in that point of max brightness. In the upper and bright part of the luminous circle, in that place where you said it twists. From that point it begin its interactions (reflections and maybe refractions - and don't want to talk here about the Faraday, Zeeman or other effects because I have different opinions even about these well known and proved theories) with the chains of nanoparticles.

Now, in my opinion, in this image we have two half of spirals, one being CW and the other CCW, both these curved paths being dictated by the general arrangement of the chain of nanoparticles under the influence of the magnetic field. They follow the same spiral path in a 2D projection plane (a helical path in a 3D view) to the one funnel at the end of the magnet. These can be noticed by changing the angle of view. The actual apparent circle will go down and will become symmetric around the magnet, if the angle of view will be set in the longitudinal axle of the magnet. The same can happen if will change the position of the LED. Is all about the relative motion of the observer relative to the source of light, and viceversa!

Quote
I'm getting old and want to see this technology take off before I kick the bucket!

A very hard task, in these times! The current civilization is shaped to think in terms of making profit NOW, and even from dry stone, without realizing that they steal their own hat! I'll try to help in your endeavor trough my limited possibilities.
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: pinestone on February 02, 2015, 11:07:16 PM
If I do not get you bored, I want to continue this analysis.

Hmmm! I see the entire phenomenon with other eyes!...
...Faraday, Zeeman or other effects

...Is all about the relative motion of the observer relative to the source of light, and viceversa!

A very hard task, in these times! The current civilization is shaped to think in terms of making profit NOW, and even from dry stone, without realizing that they steal their own hat!...

Yes more eyes are better. We all see things differently and you may discover something we've overlooked. Relativity.
If you go to the website http://www.ferrocell.us/references.html (http://www.ferrocell.us/references.html) there are published papers about Faraday Rotation, Zeeman splitting and other related phenomenon.
I put them there so people could see the difference in what I'm doing compared to what 'they're' doing.
There has been little research done with a transparent particle layer 'floating in a vacuum'. Almost all modern photonic and plasmonic devices use reflective and substrate-based methods.
Like the difference between a field of wheat and a school of fish. One is 'fixed' on one plane and the other free in all planes. ;)

From Wiki: "Transformation optics is a field of optical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical) and material engineering (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Material_engineering) and science (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science) embracing nanophotonics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanophotonics),
 plasmonics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasmon), and optical metamaterials (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metamaterials)"   check out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformation_optics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformation_optics)
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: sadang on February 03, 2015, 05:51:02 PM
Quote
... you may discover something we've overlooked. Relativity.

Maybe. It often happens to me also, to overlook certain aspects when I'm captured by and enthusiastic about a certain problem.

Quote
Like the difference between a field of wheat and a school of fish. One is 'fixed' on one plane and the other free in all planes

Indeed a big difference, but for sure to your advantage. What a deep truth you suggested through this comparison!

I will take my time (one week somewhere at over 1800m altitude) to read some of the articles from the reference page.

Could you please confirm that on the last analyzed image you used a LED not a laser? I ask this, because I saw the same effect in another experiment from you, but there you used a red laser.
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: pinestone on February 03, 2015, 07:32:36 PM
...Could you please confirm that on the last analyzed image you used a LED not a laser? I ask this, because I saw the same effect in another experiment from you, but there you used a red laser.

We see what we are 'supposed to see'. There have been many experiments done with the eye-brain interface.
One instance I remember the most is a study done using a group of volunteers who wore a special type of glasses that made everything look upside-down.
They wore them for a few days and their brain made everything look normal again.
After a week they took them off and everything was upside-down! hah

Actually the light source in the previous experiment is a small incandescent lamp. 'grain-of-wheat' 6 volt dc.

I didn't use LED's in my early experiments. I used halogen, incandescent, neodymium, florescent and the sun.
Bright, diffused light will show the entire field as a sphere. Thin, narrow light will show a narrow 'slice' of the field from a localized point in Euclidean space (the source).

this pix shows the magnetic flux in a plasma from University studies. See anything familiar?
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: sadang on February 03, 2015, 09:27:16 PM
Ok, thanks for these clarifications. Now I can narrow a bit my field of assumptions.

Quote
After a week they took them off and everything was upside-down! hah

Yes indeed! The habit is the second human's nature!

Quote
this pix shows the magnetic flux in a plasma from University studies. See anything familiar?

Hmmm! Is hard for me to understand this image without more details. As you said "We see what we are 'supposed to see". But le me try!

The familiar aspect is the curved purple path, which resemble the curved path of light from the previous image. But I think the analogy stops here! Because in this case we talk about plasma, I rather think that the bent purple path is a beam of electrons instead of light, which indeed will bent in the presence of a magnetic field.

If this is the real case, this purple path is in any point at 90 degree against the path of the magnetic field. This is a very poor experiment and far from the value and the information which a ferrocell can provide.

In a plasma the electrons will be visible in their curved movement under a magnetic field influence, until will lose their energy and will become invisible. More than this to achieve this effect, this setup require a very dangerous to use high voltage source besides many others like, noble gas, vacuum pump, electron gun, glass ball and others. A lot of stuff to reproduce an invaluable experiment which offer few and poor dates about the characteristics of the magnetic field.

Instead, a ferrocell is more safe very easy to use, and very easy to understand how to use it. It offer at a single glance a lot more information about the structure and shape of the magnetic field. And the possibilities to vary the experimental setup at the level of home user, are endless! The same the results and the possible collateral understandings.

I've tried to make use of the electrons beams in analysis of the magnetic field, appealing to a CRT display. It is not a direct interaction as in the case of a plasma ball, rather an indirect one, because I placed the magnet on the glass of the tube and get some very interesting pictures. Bellow are two of them. I have to mention that is a delta CRT tube, from here these starred forms. An old TV tube, will give other forms, but in general the forms obtained will be far from the conventional shape and structure of the magnetic field.
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: pinestone on February 04, 2015, 01:17:36 AM

The light ring contains 9 each of red, green, blue and white LED's. Look closely at the previous picture and you can see how the spectrum changed.
White is now yellow. Blue is violet...

In a nut-shell, this cell is making new waves from light and magnetism.

"The light ring contains 9 each of red, green, blue and white LED's. Look closely at the previous picture and you can see how the spectrum changed.
White is now yellow. Blue is violet...

In a nut-shell, this cell is making new waves from light and magnetism".
 
                      ***************edit***************
 After re-reading my post I realized something that I didn't notice before. Blue does not slow down to make purple (violet).
 Violet and deep violet are higher frequencies than blue. This observation is something I have to examine further :-[
this could be the verification I need to compare the ferroparticles actions to negative index materials!

I'll keep you posted (unless someone out there can explain it).
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: pinestone on February 04, 2015, 01:49:29 AM
...The familiar aspect is the curved purple path, which resemble the curved path of light from the previous image. But I think the analogy stops here!

...I've tried to make use of the electrons beams in analysis of the magnetic field, appealing to a CRT display.
Yes, in the plasma pix, if we could make 36 different points of plasma, each set 10 deg apart, we would see a sphere.
It doesn't appear to have a 'spin-helix' shape, for sure.

While I was experimenting on the Ferrocell, I was doing all of my research with magnets. 
A 1T field is difficult to make with electromagnets. It takes LOTS of power and things get HOT.

In this experiment, I rotate a magnet on the face of a CRT.
The best images (and more accurate) come from a Sony Trinitron.
You can tell if it's a Sony micro-grid tube if the face is very flat and the deflection angle is steep.
The best computer monitors (<dpi) were mostly micro-grid back in the early 90's.

Ok here's a link to a experiment I did 8 years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klw8y6ksxj0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klw8y6ksxj0)
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: sadang on February 05, 2015, 10:39:56 AM
Quote
Yes, in the plasma pix, if we could make 36 different points of plasma, each set 10 deg apart, we would see a sphere. It doesn't appear to have a 'spin-helix' shape, for sure.

According to my understanding of the phenomena in that pix even if we create 36 different points of plasma, which means 36 cathodes positioned at 10 degree apart in an horizontal plane, we can't obtain a sphere of purple paths in the actual setup, because the lines of the magnetic field are in any point perpendicular to that purple circle. The magnet is somewhere in the outside of the glass ball, placed in a specific position as its lines of magnetic field be perpendicular to the purple circle.

If the cathode placed at 180 degree from the actual one will create a purple circle like the actual one but in the opposite direction, the other cathodes at 90 and 270 degrees will not curve at all or very little their beam of electrons, these latter going in an about straight line. In any way they will not curve to form a circle.

To make each beam of electrons to follow a round path, they have to always interact with the magnetic field at 90 degrees. To get this cumulative spherical effect the lines of magnetic field have to change their angle to become always at 90 degrees for a specific beam of electrons. This can be practically made by:
- a high speed rotary cathode and magnet out of phase by 90 degrees setup
- a high speed rotary cathode and 36 static magnets setup
- a high speed rotary magnet and 36 static cathodes
- a static setup with synchronized 36 magnets and 36 cathodes

And this experimental setup don't show the shape of the magnetic field around a magnet. The magnet is outside in the right or left side of the purple circle. This experiment only show how a magnetic field affect a beam of electrons. To really see the magnetic field shape around a magnet, require a specific experimental setup, with the magnet placed in center of the ball and the pairs anode-cathode placed at 180 degree on the glass wall. All 36 or more pairs of anode-cathode have to be placed this way.

Quote
A 1T field is difficult to make with electromagnets. It takes LOTS of power and things get HOT.

Don't even think to waste time experimenting with electromagnets. Besides it is very hard to get one with 1T field density, they require a lot of electrical current and a lot of electrical and thermal precautions in their handling. Not to say they are not the same thing as a permanent
magnet. Not at all!

I know and understand very well the differences between a CRT for PC and a CRT for TV. The main difference for this discussion consist in how are arranged the RBG phosphor colored dots. For my monitor CRT they are in triangle, for your Trinitron CRT they are in horizontal lines forming RGB vertical lines. I don't know if it is fair to open here on this topic an analysis of the colored shapes obtained on an inline or delta CRT using a permanent magnet.
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: pinestone on February 05, 2015, 02:06:28 PM
According to my understanding of the phenomena in that pix even if we create 36 different points of plasma, which means 36 cathodes positioned at 10 degree apart in an horizontal plane, we can't obtain a sphere of purple paths in the actual setup, because the lines of the magnetic field are in any point perpendicular to that purple circle...

Don't even think to waste time experimenting with electromagnets... Not to say they are not the same thing as a permanent
magnet. Not at all!

I don't know if it is fair to open here on this topic an analysis of the colored shapes obtained on an inline or delta CRT using a permanent magnet.

Yes, your analysis is logical. I put that pix up only to show how the plasma goes in a circle with a magnetic field applied.

I'm using electromagnets and cells lately. It takes about 100 watts thru one of these (see pix1) to make a .5 T field for one deflection coil in my EDU to spin the laser beam: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMssut5ik9A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMssut5ik9A) 
I cemented them into a thick aluminum housing to keep them cool. this pix is taken before cleanup! (pix2)


I'm sure there is a discussion somewhere on this forum about crt's ! Shadow mask vs. Micro grid.
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: sadang on February 07, 2015, 07:16:29 PM
Yes, you are right. I found the discussion about the CRTs and I'll continue there. I'll continue writing here about the ferrocell experiments.
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: TheoriaApophasis on February 13, 2015, 05:06:52 AM
So the ferrocell itself isn't separating white light into its components, but rather reflecting the light from the individually colored LEDs that are in spatially separate locations.


The MAGNETISM is separating the LED light into its components, as tested over and over and over.

likewise the explanation for same is simplex.


Since you forget, white light LEDs contain R , G, and B diodes.   ;D  (duhh).



higher capacitance EM frequencies are drawn to the inertial plane of the magnet, for obvious reasons.
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: TheoriaApophasis on February 13, 2015, 05:13:45 AM
make them to obey the same angle along one single colored line, but don't explain why they reflect only one color!


Its not reflected because the GREENS and PURPLES are directed along the inertia plane of the magnet


You can always tell where the middle of any magnet under Timms ferrocell because the purples vanish there due to higher dielectric capacitance of that range of EM light frequency.



Youll notice the LOWER power RED light is BRIGHT along the MIDDLE of the magnet, ....whereas the higher frequency light is ABSENT  ;D
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: TheoriaApophasis on February 13, 2015, 05:33:09 AM
Bright, diffused light will show the entire field as a sphere.


Check out this video i just made  ( i made one like it months ago actually also, but anyway,.......)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07v_dcg14j0

The magnetic "circle", or the "spirograph pattern" DRAWN OUT ,  100% identical to the hypotrochoid of magnetism under you ferrocell


irrefutable  ;) ;)


By drawing it out SLOWLY, its easy for everyone to SEE   "ohhhhhh, thats it!!!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07v_dcg14j0

Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: TinselKoala on February 13, 2015, 07:33:54 AM
How many LEDs of each color are around the ferrocell?



Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: TinselKoala on February 13, 2015, 07:40:26 AM

The MAGNETISM is separating the LED light into its components, as tested over and over and over.

likewise the explanation for same is simplex.


Since you forget, white light LEDs contain R , G, and B diodes.   ;D  (duhh).



higher capacitance EM frequencies are drawn to the inertial plane of the magnet, for obvious reasons.

No, tricolor LEDs contain all three colors. WHITE leds are single elements. If you go to any electronics store and ask for a "white" LED, or look in a white LED flashlight, you will find phosphor-converted, single element LEDs.

Quote
Phosphor-converted white light: Another approach to generating white light is by use of phosphors together with a short-wavelength LED. For example, when one phosphor material used in LEDs is illuminated by blue light, it emits yellow light having a fairly broad spectral power distribution. By incorporating the phosphor in the body of a blue LED with a peak wavelength around 450 to 470 nanometers, some of the blue light will be converted to yellow light by the phosphor. The remaining blue light, when mixed with the yellow light, results in white light.

http://www.lrc.rpi.edu/programs/nlpip/lightinganswers/led/whiteLight.asp
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: TinselKoala on February 13, 2015, 07:45:09 AM

The MAGNETISM is separating the LED light into its components, as tested over and over and over.

likewise the explanation for same is simplex.


Since you forget, white light LEDs contain R , G, and B diodes.   ;D  (duhh).



higher capacitance EM frequencies are drawn to the inertial plane of the magnet, for obvious reasons.

No, it is not. You can see for yourself the DIFFERENTLY COLORED LEDS surrounding the ferrocell proper. You are once again misrepresenting the actual state of affairs.
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: TinselKoala on February 13, 2015, 08:29:53 AM
Furthermore, truly white light is a continuum of all wavelengths from about 400 nanometers to about 700 nanometers. Put it through a prism or a diffraction grating and you will see a continuous rainbow of colors. The RGB LED produces the _sensation_ of white light if driven properly. Put it through a prism and you will see only the three welldefined emission wavelengths of Red Green and Blue.

I find it truly hilarious that a great Buddhist teacher cannot tell the difference between a sensation and the reality producing it.

I have dozens of the NeoPixel RGB LEDs shown in your enlargement, and I know how to drive them to produce the _sensation_ of any color by metameric mixing. The light emitted by the LED is only a mixture of the three spectral lines from the LEDs.... the different colors possible are synthesized in your experience by the hardware of your visual system.
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: joel321 on February 13, 2015, 08:45:38 AM
Hey TA, just constructive opinions here – if in the middle there is a sphere that explodes and then goes back to itself, how does the outside explosion explodes inside itself?

Unless I'm getting it wrong, do you mean that in the “center” everything explodes inside itself continuously and everything outside explodes outside itself - the implosion/explosion contentiously?

So where is an implosion where there is an explosion hence in the middle, there is a balance. And this balance is magnetism?

The merely implosion and explosion is what causes particles?

Hear me out, so lets say that is the law....and just a little lagging of the implosion regarding the explosion is what makes things.

I don't know if I'm making myself clear.

Least say that light waves are implosion and explosions...but the light waves are more explosions than implosions? They are both light “particles” but the mere “lagging” is what causes the wave ripple?

Lets say perfect white color is implosion and explosion in balance...then any other color is ether in the beginning of the explosion/explosion or the later of the explosion/explosion if I can make myself clear?

What I really mean, where in the vortex is the color blue, yellow, orange, etc?

Just a curious question if you can understand.

I'm a noob.
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: joel321 on February 13, 2015, 08:59:53 AM
Hey TA, the CENTER rotates in one way upon itself...and the OUTER rotates on itself in the opposite. SO when they rotate, are they both continuously making negative and positive PHENOMENA!?

It seems to me like they are stuck in space time. The center rotates upon itself over and over again and the outer rotates upon itself in the opposite direction. What I see is repulsion attraction.

The middle part want to implode while the outer part wants to explode. So we have this infinity (not yet known) implosion and infinity (not yet known) explosions).

Now if I apply that knowledge, do you believe the “milky way” is imploding or exploding?

Or, what do you thing is in the center that makes the lines forces turn around upon their self? What phenomena makes the magnet become a a magnet and for what purpose? Just to show it attract other metal like stuff? Or is there a purpose to being a magnet?

Just thinking out loud  :)
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: TheoriaApophasis on February 13, 2015, 09:06:47 AM
No, tricolor LEDs contain all three colors. WHITE leds are single elements. If you go to any electronics store and ask for a "white" LED, or look in a white LED flashlight, you will find phosphor-converted, single element LEDs.


i bought both, and have both actually.  I use white only currently due to higher power output.


The tricolor LEDs can be switched, with my remote control to emit or pulse red, green, blue, or other freaky colors


or, white light, which is all 3 at full power


yes yes yes.
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: TheoriaApophasis on February 13, 2015, 09:08:15 AM
No, it is not. You can see for yourself the DIFFERENTLY COLORED LEDS surrounding the ferrocell proper. You are once again misrepresenting the actual state of affairs.


that picture is NOT my ferrocell , dummy.  ;D ;D ;D


his is different.


I used hareware store white light LED, and tri-color LED strips embedded in silicone.


You are once again misrepresenting the actual state of affairs.
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: TheoriaApophasis on February 13, 2015, 09:10:02 AM
and I know how to drive them to produce the _sensation_ of any color by metameric mixing


big deal, my tri-color LEDs came with a REMOTE CONTROL   ;D


I just hit a button for the same thing
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: joel321 on February 13, 2015, 09:13:41 AM
There is a counter clockwise spin in the center that turns upon its left to keep on imploding in the center.

There is a counter rotation in the outside and there is “dark” matter in the center. So the outer part of the vortex has a “dark matter” in the center that acts as the implosion.

Here me out! What that means is that there is dark matter in the implosion of the middle that has yet to be discovered.

The dark matter in between the implosion/explosion is where both meet. Yet there is a black space that does not tell us what causes the COUNTER rotation. Now imagine now that we can see this phenomena...now imagine how the inner “implosion” of any “particle” the dark matter? Obviously, the implosion has an explosion in the sub-atomic “particles”!

Just saying!
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: TheoriaApophasis on February 13, 2015, 09:14:50 AM
No, it is not. You can see for yourself the DIFFERENTLY COLORED LEDS surrounding the ferrocell proper.


doesnt matter one bit WHAT flavor of Xmas tree colored LEDS are used, ......always along the dielectric inertial plane "bloch wall" (sic), there is always a total or near total ABSENCE of high capacitance blue and near-UV light...


always, and for good reason.


said inertial plane is marked in white box in the picture.
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: TheoriaApophasis on February 13, 2015, 09:20:28 AM
Furthermore, truly white light is a continuum of all wavelengths from about 400 nanometers to about 700 nanometers. Put it through a prism or a diffraction grating and you will see a continuous rainbow of colors. The RGB LED produces the _sensation_ of white light if driven properly.

as a collector of diffraction grating, and a lover of prisms, including some expensive exotic ones......


I appreciate the lesson of the extremely obvious,... of that which i learned when i was 9 years old


thanks.  :o
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: joel321 on February 13, 2015, 09:30:04 AM
What is the dark matter in between the counter clock wise?

IOW, what tells the vortex to turn the other way when it is outside the middle?

Yeah I can understand that a magnet can cause a vortex, BUT, what tells the phenomena to turn the other way from the center?

Lets take as an example your pictures. From what I gather is that:

- in every explosion there is an implosion.
-in every implosion there is an explosion.

What is the dark matter/phenomena in between the implosion and explosion?

Obviously they are influencing each other.

If the inner implosion is influencing the outer explosion that means that THE INNER IMPLOSION IS INFLUENCING THE OUTER EXPLOSION. By the same token, THE OUTER EXPLOSION IS INFLUENCING THE INNER IMPLOSION.

So i'm not amazed by Vortexes at all, what I'm amazed about is the dark “matter” in between the vortex that tells the “spinning” to turn this way opposite of the other.

Who is this particle in the dark that says this?

Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: TheoriaApophasis on February 13, 2015, 10:26:34 AM
in between the vortex that tells the “spinning” to turn this way opposite of the other.


common spatial perceptive error,.... in fact relative to the (inertia) center, theyre moving in the SAME direction,
 

only mutually respective to each other, theyre going in "opposite spin-directions".


very common perceptual error.
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: joel321 on February 13, 2015, 10:54:28 AM
Quote
common spatial perceptive error,.... in fact relative to the (inertia) center, theyre moving in the SAME direction,
 

only mutually respective to each other, theyre going in "opposite spin-directions".


very common perceptual error.

TA, a vortex means the middle spins this way and the outer spinds the opposite. Correct!

What i'm asking is in the dark parts. i.e. what makes anything turn clockwise and counterclockwise?

If I believe in your vortex of magnetism, I have to ask myself what causes magnetism in the first place.

If I believe in the vortex, we still have DARK MATTER in between the clockwise and counter clockwise spinning. I'm not again the vortex, i'm just thinking WHO or WHAT IS TELLING THEM TO SPIN CLOCKWISE OR COUNTERCLOCKWISE.

In effect, what phenomena tells the vortex to spin in this direction and not the other?

If I think about it, the middle does not matter if it spins to the right or left...it will always have a “dark” space in between the opposite. The same can be said for the outer coils spinning upon themselves while ignoring the center.

All i'm asking is what is this phenomena that tells the vortex to either spin clockwise or counterclockwise?

And what is the DARK space in between the vortex? Where there is a clockwise spin and there is dark space in the middle where a counter clockwise spin is there?

In the middle we can see an implosion exploding upon itself.

In an explosion, we can see that there is DARK matter that gets in the way! That may inf;uence the implosion/explosion!

You have seen the dark sample in a vortex?

Sorry if i'm being rude, but but what is the DARK matter inside a vortex? obviously the vortex has an implosion and an outer explosion and in the middle there is this dark space.....what is this dark space?
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: TinselKoala on February 13, 2015, 01:04:58 PM

big deal, my tri-color LEDs came with a REMOTE CONTROL   ;D


I just hit a button for the same thing

You know how to push buttons. I know how to design, build and program the remote control, AND how to push buttons. Big deal?

 8)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQxTfY5wNEM



as a collector of diffraction grating, and a lover of prisms, including some expensive exotic ones......


I appreciate the lesson of the extremely obvious,... of that which i learned when i was 9 years old


thanks.  :o

Then it's really odd that you would claim that an RGB LED produces WHITE light, when all it produces is the _sensation_ of whiteness in your brain.

And of COURSE your collection is _expensive_ ... they wouldn't be worth much _to you_ if they weren't, would they. Another blindingly obvious fact for you to consider.
 



Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: sadang on February 13, 2015, 06:52:35 PM
TinselKoala why don't invest your time, money and mind in understanding of what is magnetism? Are you pleased with the actual description of it? It make you feel comfortable to operate with something that is not really understood in its intrinsic nature? There are so many paradoxes related to magnetism, so I can't understand why don't you want to see them? Are not you tired to play with LEDs, controllers and other passive and active electronic components?

What about a ferrocell? I think they are not so hard to do, two sheets of glass, some drops of nano-ferrofluid diluted in some more drops of mineral oil and placed between the glass sheets, a plastic or wood rim, some LEDs, lasers, a prism and you can play more fantastic than just copying what others do in the electric and electronic field. Think a bit: you will go at the origins of these phenomena! Why don't give them a try
Title: Re: the Ferrocell
Post by: TheoriaApophasis on February 13, 2015, 06:58:17 PM
RGB LED produces WHITE light, when all it produces is the _sensation_ of whiteness in your brain.



The very same UNREAL phantasm that produces the sensation in your brain that you are even mildly intelligent.  ;D


same mental 'trickery' at play.