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Author Topic: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy  (Read 2068464 times)

Offline picowatt

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3855 on: June 25, 2015, 02:04:36 PM »
As i stated,that was my screw up, as i was talking about the bucking effect,as like would be seen in your partnered coil setup,as it is an effect that adds the torque to the mechanical output of the motor.

Sorry for taking up too much room in your thread,i just didnt see much point in starting a thread about my device,as it has just about gone as far as it's going to go. I have only the final video,and measurements to go,and what will be after that is yet unknown.

Tinman,

I am still interested in seeing a scope capture showing the noise floor of your in/out rails.

With AC coupling, higher vertical gain, and increased sweep rate, I'd like to actually see a bit of brush rate noise.

PW

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3855 on: June 25, 2015, 02:04:36 PM »

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3856 on: June 25, 2015, 02:08:04 PM »
As i stated,that was my screw up, as i was talking about the bucking effect,as like would be seen in your partnered coil setup,as it is an effect that adds the torque to the mechanical output of the motor.

Sorry for taking up too much room in your thread,i just didnt see much point in starting a thread about my device,as it has just about gone as far as it's going to go. I have only the final video,and measurements to go,and what will be after that is yet unknown.

@Tinman - Read your words, and hear your meaning. Good Luck!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Offline tinman

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3857 on: June 25, 2015, 02:25:39 PM »
Tinman,

I am still interested in seeing a scope capture showing the noise floor of your in/out rails.

With AC coupling, higher vertical gain, and increased sweep rate, I'd like to actually see a bit of brush rate noise.

PW

What-you mean like the below scope shot's?
First scope shot before the diode.
Second scope shot after the diode,and large cap removed.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3857 on: June 25, 2015, 02:25:39 PM »
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Offline picowatt

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3858 on: June 25, 2015, 02:36:41 PM »
What-you mean like the below scope shot's?
First scope shot before the diode.
Second scope shot after the diode,and large cap removed.

Tinman,

Yes, like that...

When you say "large cap removed", does that mean the cap mounted to your perf board is still in place?

Do you have any similar captures from the input side?

PW

Offline tinman

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3859 on: June 25, 2015, 03:10:28 PM »
Tinman,

Yes, like that...

When you say "large cap removed", does that mean the cap mounted to your perf board is still in place?

Do you have any similar captures from the input side?

PW
Yes,cap still on perf board.
Input wave forms are smooth,even without the caps,only very thin spikes from brush noise-nothing like the output.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3859 on: June 25, 2015, 03:10:28 PM »
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Online synchro1

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3860 on: June 25, 2015, 06:50:58 PM »
Doug Konzen shows input drop and rotor speed rise with his "Shorted Coil":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaaEdGPO7C8

Both MarkE and Milehigh have ridiculed these kinds of test results across the board reasoning that the open coil, while just sitting in place, is slowing the rotor down and then the shorting virtually takes the component out of the system, reducing Lenz drag.

Konzen moves the coil into position manually, so that rules the error out those two postulate.

The "Twinbeard (Lenz Reversed) Hyperdrive" effect from spiking the generator coil with EMF is a different thing!

Tinman invented a very cool way to help perfect this approach. He's really shifting the TDC phase angle with his coupled coil "Shorts".

Offline MarkE

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3861 on: June 25, 2015, 07:44:43 PM »
Doug Konzen shows input drop and rotor speed rise with his "Shorted Coil":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaaEdGPO7C8

Both MarkE and Milehigh have ridiculed these kinds of test results across the board reasoning that the open coil, while just sitting in place, is slowing the rotor down and then the shorting virtually takes the component out of the system, reducing Lenz drag.

Konzen moves the coil into position manually, so that rules the error out those two postulate.

The "Twinbeard (Lenz Reversed) Hyperdrive" effect from spiking the generator coil with EMF is a different thing!

Tinman invented a very cool way to help perfect this approach. He's really shifting the TDC phase angle with his coupled coil "Shorts".
There are lots of things oe can do to change either the impedance matc or the efficiency between an energy source and load.  for anything to actually be novel, it has to increase the net output beyond the input.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3861 on: June 25, 2015, 07:44:43 PM »
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Offline picowatt

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3862 on: June 25, 2015, 08:08:34 PM »
There are lots of things oe can do to change either the impedance matc or the efficiency between an energy source and load.  for anything to actually be novel, it has to increase the net output beyond the input.

MarkE,

What direction are you leaning with regard to the measurements Tinman has recently shared?

PW

Online synchro1

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3863 on: June 25, 2015, 08:41:25 PM »
Here's a video of a combined "Piggyback" coil and a power coil. Look at the rotor acceleration he gets shorting the rider coil with a reed switch. How does "Tinman" trigger his FET?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ntN1JdIF9U

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3863 on: June 25, 2015, 08:41:25 PM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3864 on: June 25, 2015, 08:53:40 PM »
MarkE,

What direction are you leaning with regard to the measurements Tinman has recently shared?

PW
Picowatt, I think that the output power measurements are reliable:  The power to the bulb is demonstrably well decoupled and sanity check tests using the DC supply produce similar observable results.  That leaves the input side power measurements to resolve.  It will take a whole lot to throw a wrench into conservation of energy.  The vastly most probable situation is that the measurements are off, even though they seem deceptively simple.  I am game to walk through the process one step at a time:  See what well decoupled measurements show first.  If they show what seems impossible, then the next step is to devise further measurements such as a self loop.  If one has ~10V and ~17W coming out of something that needs ~13V and ~9W input, the power converter to go between the two is undemanding.

Offline picowatt

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3865 on: June 25, 2015, 09:06:41 PM »
Picowatt, I think that the output power measurements are reliable:  The power to the bulb is demonstrably well decoupled and sanity check tests using the DC supply produce similar observable results.  That leaves the input side power measurements to resolve.  It will take a whole lot to throw a wrench into conservation of energy.  The vastly most probable situation is that the measurements are off, even though they seem deceptively simple.  I am game to walk through the process one step at a time:  See what well decoupled measurements show first.  If they show what seems impossible, then the next step is to devise further measurements such as a self loop.  If one has ~10V and ~17W coming out of something that needs ~13V and ~9W input, the power converter to go between the two is undemanding.

MarkE,

I agree with all you say.  Although we have yet to see a scope shot of the noise floor on the input side, Tinman seems confident that it is adequately clean.  As a black box, looking at only the in and out measurements, I must admit that it is, at the least, a bit of a puzzler.

As for needing a power converter, I believe he stated a >50V no load output and he can do 10.4V with his 17watt load.  It would not seem unreasonable to expect at least the required 13-14 volts from the output (as required for the input) when the output is loaded with <10watts.  Point being, would any sort of converter be required at all?

I hope Tinman will indulge us in the near future and provide a scope capture of the input noise floor.

PW

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3865 on: June 25, 2015, 09:06:41 PM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3866 on: June 25, 2015, 09:33:10 PM »
MarkE,

I agree with all you say.  Although we have yet to see a scope shot of the noise floor on the input side, Tinman seems confident that it is adequately clean.  As a black box, looking at only the in and out measurements, I must admit that it is, at the least, a bit of a puzzler.

As for needing a power converter, I believe he stated a >50V no load output and he can do 10.4V with his 17watt load.  It would not seem unreasonable to expect at least the required 13-14 volts from the output (as required for the input) when the output is loaded with <10watts.  Point being, would any sort of converter be required at all?

I hope Tinman will indulge us in the near future and provide a scope capture of the input noise floor.

PW
A converter may be needed because the input and output do not share a circuit common.

When the circuit is active, the motor constant appears to increase:  Higher BEMF constant and higher torque constant.  So, the motor slows down while drawing less current.  No surprise there: the shaft is not driving any appreciable mechanical load.  We see the more or less free running speed for the motor. 

The interesting part is the apparent 9W in and pretty solidly confirmed ~17W out.  We shall see what Tinman's next video shows.

Offline picowatt

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3867 on: June 25, 2015, 09:39:18 PM »
A converter may be needed because the input and output do not share a circuit common.

When the circuit is active, the motor constant appears to increase:  Higher BEMF constant and higher torque constant.  So, the motor slows down while drawing less current.  No surprise there: the shaft is not driving any appreciable mechanical load.  We see the more or less free running speed for the motor. 

The interesting part is the apparent 9W in and pretty solidly confirmed ~17W out.  We shall see what Tinman's next video shows.

MarkE,

it did not appear to affect the circuit's operation when the input/output reference points were connected via the scope probe grounds.  Perhaps testing a more intentional connection of those two points is in order.

PW

Online synchro1

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3868 on: June 25, 2015, 09:55:09 PM »
Tinman's FET is connecting the "Bucking Coils, not causing a "dead short" like in the "Piggyback Coil" in the video. Maybe Tinman has a Reed Switch hidden in his Rotary Transformer?

Offline picowatt

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3869 on: June 25, 2015, 10:02:01 PM »
Tinman's FET is connecting the "Bucking Coils, not causing a "dead short" like in the "Piggyback Coil" in the video. Maybe Tinman has a Reed Switch hidden in his Rotary Transformer?

Not according to Tinman...

PW

 

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