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Author Topic: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy  (Read 2399394 times)

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3705 on: June 21, 2015, 03:54:04 PM »
MH
Below are two scope shot's.
the first is a screen shot from the first video. The blue trace is across the globe,and with only the small cap in play. We can see the ripple and spikes.
The second screenshot is from the second video where the large cap is in play. Once again the blue trace is across the globe.
Tell me again how the large cap is not smoothing out the pulses and ripples?.

Tinman, I am not going to directly answer your question but rather I am just going to comment and it goes back to the same themes that I had already mentioned.  These comments are rhetorical and for you to ponder:

How can I comment with the following?

1.  I already told you that a large electrolytic cap will not absorb and filter out high frequency content from any possible pulses but apparently you don't want to listen because you see a flat line.
2.  It's very possible to see a flat trace and the pulses that are possibly messing up the ammeter are in fact actually still there.
3.  I don't even know what the time base is for the lower picture.
4.  I don't even know what the trigger level is for the lower picture and for all I know the scope horizontal trigger is simply free running.
5.  I don't even know if you even tried to very carefully trigger on any possible pulses.
6.  My impression is that you are looking at a flat line and so you are "satisfied" and you are not trying to turn over every stone to find possible shortcomings.


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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3705 on: June 21, 2015, 03:54:04 PM »

Offline tinman

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3706 on: June 21, 2015, 04:22:45 PM »
Tinman, I am not going to directly answer your question but rather I am just going to comment and it goes back to the same themes that I had already mentioned.  These comments are rhetorical and for you to ponder:

How can I comment with the following?

1.  I already told you that a large electrolytic cap will not absorb and filter out high frequency content from any possible pulses but apparently you don't want to listen because you see a flat line.
2.  It's very possible to see a flat trace and the pulses that are possibly messing up the ammeter are in fact actually still there.
3.  I don't even know what the time base is for the lower picture.
4.  I don't even know what the trigger level is for the lower picture and for all I know the scope horizontal trigger is simply free running.
5.  I don't even know if you even tried to very carefully trigger on any possible pulses.
6.  My impression is that you are looking at a flat line and so you are "satisfied" and you are not trying to turn over every stone to find possible shortcomings.

I can assure you MH that i am trying to find the reason behind the measurements,but it is a bit hard to ask questions here without giving to much away. What i can assure you of is that the meters are reading correctly,and i have just redone the DC test using a lux meter. This confirms that the test i carried out in the second video using a DC power supply to compare the meter readings on the output of the device is correct,and the meter is within 12mA on the device output.

As i have stated before,i do have concerns elsewhere in the system,and i have sort help in that area. But the P/in and P/out are correct.

Offline picowatt

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3707 on: June 21, 2015, 05:12:52 PM »
Tinman,

As MarkE has already suggested, I would also like to see you put some decoupling caps on the motor side of your circuit.  Preferably, these decoupling caps would be placed directly across the brushes or at least directly across the terminal strips where the battery and ammeter connections feed the motor.

Before you do that, however, I would like to see what the input ammeter has been dealing with up to now.  Please connect your scope leads right at the terminal strip (as you did in the first video), switch the scope input to AC coupling and crank up the gain/sweep/trigger till we get a good shot of the brush pulses.  Once you can clearly see the brush pulses, apply caps as necessary across the brushes until you have quieted that measurement point.  I usually use a fairly large electrolytic, a .22uF poly, and a .1uF ceramic in parallel for such purposes, but a paralleled electrolytic and ceramic as MarkE suggested will likely be just fine as well.  You will know if the caps used are sufficient because you will be watching the effectiveness of their decoupling on the scope.  I would use the probes switched to 10X (if they are not already).

You can then do the same for the output side, though I suspect the motor side will be the noisiest.

Thanks for taking the time to make videos and sharing with us...

PW

Added:  Consider connecting the ceramic right at the terminal strip, placing its leads into the terminals with the motor's leads.  Keep the ceramic's leads as short as possible. 
« Last Edit: June 21, 2015, 07:47:19 PM by picowatt »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3707 on: June 21, 2015, 05:12:52 PM »
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Offline allcanadian

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3708 on: June 21, 2015, 06:13:38 PM »
@tinman
Quote
Below are two scope shot's.
the first is a screen shot from the first
video. The blue trace is across the globe,and with only the small cap in play. We can see the ripple and spikes.
The second screenshot is from the second video where the large cap is in play. Once again the blue trace is across the globe.
Tell me again how the large cap is not smoothing out the pulses and ripples?.
You are correct and the term large cap is meaningless, I have a large cap I built which is 10"x 10" and 3" thick rated at 50+Kv and it appears as an open circuit at low voltage. I could also build a large cap of the same dimensions with a very thin dielectric rated at near the max voltage expected of 60v and in your case it would work very well to smooth any transients. I could also build a very small HV cap which would not smooth any transients below say 5 Kv thus the notion of large and small are meaningless.
What we want in a smoothing cap is a capacitor with a voltage rating as close to the the max voltage expected as possible, sufficient capacity to absorb the transient and a low internal resistance, these are the properties we are looking for. The capacity of the cap is also important because if the rating is too small say 1 pF then the transient current may simply charge the cap to capacity and then keep on moving down the line.

AC

Offline picowatt

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3709 on: June 21, 2015, 06:47:54 PM »
@tinmanYou are correct and the term large cap is meaningless, I have a large cap I built which is 10"x 10" and 3" thick rated at 50+Kv and it appears as an open circuit at low voltage. I could also build a large cap of the same dimensions with a very thin dielectric rated at near the max voltage expected of 60v and in your case it would work very well to smooth any transients. I could also build a very small HV cap which would not smooth any transients below say 5 Kv thus the notion of large and small are meaningless.
What we want in a smoothing cap is a capacitor with a voltage rating as close to the the max voltage expected as possible, sufficient capacity to absorb the transient and a low internal resistance, these are the properties we are looking for. The capacity of the cap is also important because if the rating is too small say 1 pF then the transient current may simply charge the cap to capacity and then keep on moving down the line.
As well most electronics on the market I have seen have pathetic input power conditioning circuitry, I would fire the engineer who designed them because they are sub-standard in my opinion.
AC

AC,

The ESR (equiv series resistance) of modern caps is usually pretty good (better than days past anyways).  However, large value capacitors, which are typically of a wound layer construction, can have a rather large ESL (equiv series inductance) which increases the cap's series impedance at high frequencies and reduces its effectiveness at those higher frequencies.  Because of this, when decoupling high frequency noise, the capacitor's ESL is often more of an issue than its ESR.

When decoupling (quieting/stiffening) a supply rail, it is common to use a relatively large value low ESR cap for good low frequency decoupling and then place a smaller value low ESL cap in parallel with the larger cap to reduce the impedance at high frequencies.

A fairly large value low ESR electrolytic is good for decoupling low frequency noise and a smaller value ceramic cap, which typically have a low ESL, is often placed in parallel with the larger electrolytic for good high frequency decoupling.

Leads on the ceramic cap must be kept as short as possible to avoid excessive lead inductance which would effectively increase the ESL (and HF impedance) of the ceramic cap.  In high speed circuitry, the low ESL cap is usually positioned very close to and connected directly across a device's power pins.

PW

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3709 on: June 21, 2015, 06:47:54 PM »
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Offline allcanadian

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3710 on: June 21, 2015, 06:53:35 PM »
Quote
There is no possible combination of motors, coils, resistors, capacitors,
transformers, funky strange transformers, transistors, MOSFETs, diodes(and
undefined items) that i know of that can give you more energy out than in.
Actually this statement is false, it is known that the PN junction of a diode can generate a voltage in direct sunlight thus if we had enough diodes configured in series with let's say a low voltage battery then the energy output of the battery/diodes is in fact greater than the battery input alone. I'm not sure why people keep making these kinds of meaningless statements with absolutely no context because it is kind of preschool showing a lack of understanding. Context matters because I could also use a large open circuit coil tied to a cap then to ground anywhere in a circuit and easily generate 10W or more with a large coil if a thunderstorm was approaching or in dry windy conditions. Sure I know where the energy comes from and it is obvious to me however how many here would know how to connect the dots in the proper context to get the correct answer?. So yes the statement above is quite absurd because it has no context thus is meaningless.

In any case I always assume any extra energy must always come from somewhere and when we figure out where that somewhere is and the context in which it applies then I would call this real understanding... not meaningless blanket statements.

AC

Offline ramset

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3711 on: June 21, 2015, 07:37:55 PM »
Quote

There is no possible combination of motors, coils, resistors, capacitors,
transformers, funky strange transformers, transistors, MOSFETs, diodes(and
undefined items) that i know of that can give you more energy out than in.
End Quote

When things start to come apart ,All bets are off on what is truly possible ... and
how we manage that energy...NMR NAR OR

the sound of one hand clapping.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC6I8iPiHT8

Some fellows are moving forward with this http://soc.biolimscience.com/events/presentation.php?be=BEE000003

Chet K

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3711 on: June 21, 2015, 07:37:55 PM »
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Offline NickZ

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3712 on: June 21, 2015, 07:58:05 PM »
    MH said: " that i know of that can give you more energy out than in."

   That's the part I'm wondering about...  The "that I know of". 
   But, he wouldn't be here if he didn't believe that there can be at least open systems, (like Solar Panels),
or other systems, that are just conversions systems and don't actually make or produce anything in of them selves. 
   The surrounding ambient field has energy to it, if we only knew of to tap it.  When are we going to learn???
    What's blocking us from knowing?
   

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3713 on: June 21, 2015, 08:01:35 PM »
Sunlight supplies about 1000 watts per square meter so that discussion is insane.  How about we all just assume a mutually understood common sense understanding of what we are talking about without having to spell it out?

After all, you you can catch high-energy particles from space in a Bamboozler.  Matter is decaying all around us, so we are bathed in atomic energy also.  They say a solar flare may be heading this way, so if you run out into the lone pines with that Dollard guy and make a loop with a few kilometers worth of unused overhead power line wires you may get a few "wobbles" of energy going and ring an old telephone bell or charge a capacitor.  You can get "free energy" from the change in barometric pressure of the atmosphere.  You can split hairs like that for a very long time if you really want to...

Oh no, not the COE shrimp again.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3713 on: June 21, 2015, 08:01:35 PM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3714 on: June 21, 2015, 08:06:56 PM »
The infamous Mother of all Wobbles:

https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=March_1989_geomagnetic_storm

If one of those biggies happens again Dollard is going to have a freak out!

Offline NickZ

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3715 on: June 21, 2015, 08:12:14 PM »
     However,  sunlight is only a small faction to the total available ambient energy.
    "Dark energy" is basically untapped, as yet.  Un-measurable, and unseen, for now.
   Does that mean that it does not exist? Not useable because we don't know how to tap it, properly?
   
    You seam to have an attitude towards, Eric.   Tesla had his downfalls, as well.
   I enjoy listening to Eric, as he is one of the only people that share some of my own views,
about space, light, the Sun, and energy.
    But, as always.   "The proof is in the pudding".
 
 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3715 on: June 21, 2015, 08:12:14 PM »
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Offline nelsonrochaa

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3716 on: June 21, 2015, 08:20:25 PM »
Energy can be destroyed only converted to other forms, but we can not create energy; because exist in all type of manifestations and everywhere!
We want POWER available , joules to make work! In Si units energy is measured in joules !

The second law of thermodynamics states that all systems doing work always lose some energy as waste heat. This creates a limit to the amount of energy that can do work by a heating process, a limit called the available energy that make work.


So create more power available, to doing more work, is not create more energy ! We are talking about a improvement in the conversion like Tinman show and other persons .
Is quit bit different.

With same power make more work what is the difficulty to understand the difference ?

Now if people think a bit  and see that second law of thermodynamics refers to closed circuits (Resistance ,heat) but not apply in open circuits , or circuits with negative resistance maybe the circuits run more cooler and the energy is not lost in heat  ;)
But we have so many other interesting things going on , and for some people seems give some bother. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ8TX0bPCL8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9Ozeq61x1Y

Thanks for share Tinman

 


Offline picowatt

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3717 on: June 21, 2015, 08:21:23 PM »
The infamous Mother of all Wobbles:

https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=March_1989_geomagnetic_storm

If one of those biggies happens again Dollard is going to have a freak out!

'Twas the best display of Aurora yet seen in my lifetime.  Two different nights, intense sheets of multi-colored scintillations from horizon to horizon in all directions.  Way cool...

PW

Offline NickZ

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3718 on: June 21, 2015, 09:17:09 PM »
  Nelson:
   I think that what you are showing in the video, when the motor speeds up, is a better impedence match, as the amp draw will be raised as well. So, Not more out than in.

Offline a.king21

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3719 on: June 21, 2015, 10:04:10 PM »
 >:( >:( >:( >:(

 

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