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Author Topic: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy  (Read 2381679 times)

Offline MarkE

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2460 on: May 08, 2015, 05:58:00 AM »
MileHigh - In the case of a Standard Conventional Transformer - Do the Magnetic Fields Interact with each Other?

       Answer: YES

Ever heard of Induction brother?

I am sorry, but this is your biggest FAIL to date!!!
Induction is an action between a time varying relationship of a magnetic field orthogonal to a conductor.  If the conductor does not connect in a closed circuit current does not flow and there is but the original inducing magnetic field.

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2460 on: May 08, 2015, 05:58:00 AM »

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2461 on: May 08, 2015, 06:00:07 AM »
Also, where is north and south field In a toroid?. If it dosnt have north or south, then is that a monopole field. If we look at a normal magnetic field, north and south is seen as a flow out\flow in, but here there is no flow out\flow in with a toroid.

I must have posted about 100 times over the years that there is no such thing as a north and south pole with respect to a magnetic field.  They are just artificial concepts that make it easy to discuss and apply magnetic fields in practical applications.

Quote
Also, where is north and south field In a toroid?. If it dosnt have north or south, then is that a monopole field.

Perhaps this is a good time to forget about the bench for a while and open up a book.

Offline MarkE

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2462 on: May 08, 2015, 06:02:08 AM »
Still dosnt seem right. That seems to indicate that the outer perimeter has the highest flux density, and the inner part of the core (inner perimeter) has the lowest flux density. This is opposite to what it should be. One would think that the area of the core that is least, but has more turn overlap of wire, would have the highest flux density. The outer perimeter has muchmore core material, but less wire overlap. It seems to make sense that the outer perimeter of the core would then recieve less magnetic flux from the conducting wire. But going against all this, I believe the highest flux density would be in the center of the core.

Also, where is north and south field In a toroid?. If it dosnt have north or south, then is that a monopole field. If we look at a normal magnetic field, north and south is seen as a flow out\flow in, but here there is no flow out\flow in with a toroid.
Your intuition of the highest flux density being on the inner radius is correct.  And, that is what the temperature plot shows:  red on the inside: IE higher flux density , and blue on the outside, IE lower flux density.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2462 on: May 08, 2015, 06:02:08 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2463 on: May 08, 2015, 06:09:30 AM »
The Magnetic Field Due to a Toroid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCSHcftPAIM

Watch this clip carefully.  You can use simple deductive reasoning to calculate the magnetic field inside a toroid.  You don't even have to go onto a bench at all.

You can clearly see that the strength of the magnetic field is proportional to 1/r.   You can also see that the formula is actually very simple and very elegant and makes perfect intuitive sense.

That's in contrast to the continuous pitching for "amazing effects that conventional science doesn't understand."  When it comes to basic electronics the subject is 100% covered.  When someone says to you that "we don't really understand transformers and they can be over unity under the 'right' conditions" they are FOS.

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2464 on: May 08, 2015, 06:17:05 AM »
The Magnetic Field Due to a Toroid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCSHcftPAIM

Watch this clip carefully.  You can use simple deductive reasoning to calculate the magnetic field inside a toroid.  You don't even have to go onto a bench at all.

You can clearly see that the strength of the magnetic field is proportional to 1/r.   You can also see that the formula is actually very simple and very elegant and makes perfect intuitive sense.

That's in contrast to the continuous pitching for "amazing effects that conventional science doesn't understand."  When it comes to basic electronics the subject is 100% covered.  When someone says to you that "we don't really understand transformers and they can be over unity under the 'right' conditions" they are FOS.

Nice video MH.  Thanks for linking that.  For some reason, this guy made it pretty clear and I understood what he was saying.

Bill

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2464 on: May 08, 2015, 06:17:05 AM »
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Offline John.K1

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2465 on: May 08, 2015, 08:53:04 AM »
Hi MH.

The video is nice and very clear. I only miss some time propagation in the equation as the magnetic field doesn't appear in the core immediately as you power the wires. The part of magnetism starts outside before is "sucked" inside.  Perhaps the magnetic propagation (B/td) in the core is the next think to take in to the consideration? Under what circumstances can you see the "leakage" of the m.field?

I believe when people do some assumption about the OU in the transformers, they do not speak about simple one wire wound toroid :)

Not sure who has said " There is a free energy in the wire"  - And you know what? I do believe it.
Somebody said " There is a god" - And you know what?  I believe it.

;)


Offline MileHigh

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2466 on: May 08, 2015, 09:41:50 AM »
The clip simply discusses the field inside a toroid when there is DC current flowing through the wire.  That is the only issue the clip discusses which is intentional.

Applying voltage at time zero to a coil and observing the increase in current is a completely separate but related issue.  It is also a very well understood issue that in theory everybody that is an experimenter should completely understand.  Unfortunately almost nobody on the forums understands it.  This is illustrated by the fact that only a few people tried to discuss the two-coil example from a few days ago.  When these few people were not correct, then they stopped discussing the example altogether.  After that, nobody had anything to say.  Is that because of fear?  Then of course Chris/EMJunkie and Enjoykin actively worked to suppress even discussing this basic fundamental question and even started to spam the thread with complete junk to actively suppress people from discussing this issue.  They wanted to make you afraid to speak your mind and ask questions in order to learn.  You have head of the "Thought Police" from the famous novel 1984?  This was another form of the same idea, but in this case it was the "Ignorance and Stupidity Enforcer Police."

Quote
The part of magnetism starts outside before is "sucked" inside.

That is complete and utter nonsense and it is a typical example of the "imaginary belief systems" that people create in their minds to advance their interests.   Where did you hear such a crazy thing?  Why do you want to believe such a crazy thing?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2466 on: May 08, 2015, 09:41:50 AM »
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Offline verpies

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2467 on: May 08, 2015, 10:53:20 AM »
Still doesn't seem right. That seems to indicate that the outer perimeter has the highest flux density, and the inner part of the core (inner perimeter) has the lowest flux density.
The red color is nearer the inside perimeter and the blue color is nearer the outside perimeter, so I am not seeing what you are seeing.
You seem to have problems reading diagrams so I duplicated and moved these crossections on the top of the toroidal core's outline, for you.

Offline John.K1

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2468 on: May 08, 2015, 11:05:43 AM »
  Where did you hear such a crazy thing?  Why do you want to believe such a crazy thing?

It is somewhere in the document below. Also I have been watching some of the work of our good man Distinti    at  http://www.distinti.com/     + his YouTube series. :) 

Also, meanwhile I just took a toroid coil and put the compass next to. By applying a small DC voltage 1.5 v @ 0.7 A  I could see some alignment on the compass. Shouldn't be all magnetism inside and invisible to the compass?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2468 on: May 08, 2015, 11:05:43 AM »
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Offline verpies

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2469 on: May 08, 2015, 11:11:58 AM »
Also, where is north and south field In a toroid?. If it doesn't have north or south, then is that a monopole field.
No, it is a circular flux which is an entirely different animal from a monopole. 
Lack of identifiable poles is not synonymous with a monopole.

Offline verpies

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2470 on: May 08, 2015, 11:16:40 AM »
Also, meanwhile I just took a toroid coil and put the compass next to. By applying a small DC voltage 1.5 v @ 0.7 A  I could see some alignment on the compass. Shouldn't be all magnetism inside and invisible to the compass?
In an ideal toroidal inductor - yes.

Must likely your toroidal winding is not even wound the correct manner -  that means an even number of identical back and forth layers (of small circumferential pitch) to avoid non-zero net axial flux.  One layer toroidal winding will always create an axial flux leakage.

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2470 on: May 08, 2015, 11:16:40 AM »
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Offline John.K1

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2471 on: May 08, 2015, 11:22:35 AM »
MH,  Just to give it my thought, imagine that:

From time 0 we start to increase the curent - B field. Becouse the magnetic propagation is slower in the toroid's material, we get temporary "over saturation" of the reagon at some short period, It means the magnetic flux might be outside. As the flux continues through the core the outer flux is decreasing and at the end consumed by the core. Logical? yes/no/maybe?

Offline John.K1

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2472 on: May 08, 2015, 11:24:32 AM »
In an ideal toroidal inductor - yes.

Must likely your toroid is not even wound the correct manner -  that means an even number of identical back and forth layers (of small circumferential pitch) to avoid non-zero net axial flux.  One layer toroidal winding will always create an axial flux leakage.

No just 5 turns of thick wire on 40mm OD blue toroid. I  picked small voltage (current) to not over-saturate the core.

Offline verpies

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2473 on: May 08, 2015, 11:30:29 AM »
So it is not surprising.

5 turns of thick wire generate a coarse winding of high pitch and one layer winding is incapable of canceling the axial flux leakage in a toroidal arrangement
5 turns might not even span the entire circumference of the toroidal core which leads to leakage as the one depicted in Fig.1.

...and below you can see what happens with a coarse winding:

Offline John.K1

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2474 on: May 08, 2015, 11:47:09 AM »
OK :) time for test two, many turnes of  0.25 wire forming one smooth layer on the same toroid. Applied 8.5VDC @0.7 A   Compas moves - aligns.

Just thinking, maybe it is not a right way to test it. It is like bringing small magnet close to the flux which might bond together (drug some flux out)?

 

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