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Author Topic: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy  (Read 3010037 times)

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2220 on: May 03, 2015, 09:58:36 PM »
Learn what ? What is the purpose of this circuit ?

The purpose of this circuit is to understand how coils work so you can apply that knowledge to other circuits.

Offline MarkE

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2221 on: May 03, 2015, 09:59:48 PM »
Learn what ? What is the purpose of this circuit ?
The circuit is relatively simple and can be analyzed correctly by anyone who is willing to be careful enough to follow through.  The uncoupled and coupled versions demonstrate several pit falls that various free energy claimants have fallen into in the past.  Even though there is nothing hidden, and nothing left out of the description, more than anything else, the circuit should remind people to test their assumptions and their work.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2222 on: May 03, 2015, 10:53:37 PM »
Okay, here is an attempt to help some people out that may be intimidated by the MOSFET and the switching times and stuff like that.

Attached is a variation on the circuit.  It eliminates the MOSFET and uses a relay, and it's an ideal relay with zero switching times and zero resistance.  Otherwise it's almost an identical circuit.  You notice that a small parasitic capacitance of 100 nF was also added to the circuit.  The capacitance will not fundamentally change what the circuit does.

Feel free to with work with the relay variation of the circuit if you want.  Or work with the original.  Both circuit's behaviour will be quite similar.

I am just going to correct the highlighted comments above.

The capacitance will change what the circuit does.

Both circuit's behaviour will in fact not be that similar.

However, it could still be an interesting exploration but Mark's MOSFET circuit should be the one that is discussed first.

Offline John.K1

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2223 on: May 03, 2015, 11:04:09 PM »
The diagram got a bit more complicated. We have to calculate how long it take to charge the C. When is charging ,the current goes through. Also what is the resistance of he capacitor? That resistance change with frequency. I think in resonance the capacitor has biggest resistance . So we have here in total three overlapping routs for current  depending on the timing. And also on resistance which is not defined? Yes/No /Maybe. 

Offline MarkE

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2224 on: May 03, 2015, 11:32:15 PM »
The diagram got a bit more complicated. We have to calculate how long it take to charge the C. When is charging ,the current goes through. Also what is the resistance of he capacitor? That resistance change with frequency. I think in resonance the capacitor has biggest resistance . So we have here in total three overlapping routs for current  depending on the timing. And also on resistance which is not defined? Yes/No /Maybe.
Treat the capacitor as having zero inductance and resistance.  Treat the relay as being perfect:  Zero transition time, zero resistance closed, infinite resistance open, zero inductance and zero capacitance.  Then work through what would happen if we had such perfect components.

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2225 on: May 04, 2015, 12:51:19 AM »
In speaking to Mark in email I came to the realization that I made several mistakes.   And that's all part of the process of learning.

But if you don't venture out, you don't try to come up with the answer, then you forfeit all chances to get it right and to also make mistakes.  Like that you never learn.

Look at Chris as an example.  He is petrified of this example because he doesn't know what to do or even how to approach the problem.  Heck, he didn't even know what to discuss to start formulating an answer.  Seemingly, all that he can do is spam and mock the thread.

What Chris is doing is being the real goon.  He is actively stomping around on this thread and mocking and attacking the opportunity for people to actually learn something.  When you think about it, it's completely crazy.  An opportunity comes along to learn some basic things about real coils and real circuits, and the guy that is "inviting you to come over to his site and learn" is acting like the goon in the back of the class.  He is disruptive and thinks it's "cool to act dumb and be stupid" because for him school means staring out the window during class and waiting for gym period.  And of course if you are three years behind in elementary school then gym class is more fun because you are considerably bigger and stronger than everybody else.

MileHigh


WOW MileHigh admits to Ballsing this whole thing up - Entirely!!!! GOON SQUAD Admits to failure!!!


Hahahaha - Very Funny!!!

I have already given a ton more information on the POSSIBLE meanings to the POSSIBLE Circuits and terribly presented questions you have asked!!! All went un-noticed/dis-regarded, except for a "Keep going" from MileHigh, all after the actual question MileHigh asked was answered in its entirety and correctly by Myself.

Still, I sit here posting this post and think to myself, terrible Karma......

While this Circuit still is incomplete, badly presented and the King of Assumptions is still making Assumptions about this circuit and his expectations of what is being asked, I will provide some more information as to the Circuit Characteristics:

Of course, assuming MarkE's utter brilliance at 2 seconds: (? ? ?) - is refereeing to the inductor being fully charged after the 5 Time Constants:

Loop A (Which is now NOT defined in the recent Diagrams) has an Inductance value of 2H, this then has a Time Constant: 2 seconds, which now gives a Resistance Value of 1 Ohm, but now we have a Current of only 0.159 Amps? Oh no!!! What happened to our previously stated: 1 Amp? We don't have the same circuit again and something is yet again different from before!!!


Look, because this is such a shambles, MileHigh totally screwed this up from the start, now we have MarkE missing a ton of MileHigh's Information, lost definitions of prior stated Components, chop and changing things every few minutes, and really undecided on the entire set of variables.... I have to agree with Forest!!!


Learn what ? What is the purpose of this circuit ?


Learn What Exactly? Learn how NOT to present Circuit and Questions about it in a Public Forum!!! I tell you, Trolls Everywhere!!! Trollified Science!!!

Offline MarkE

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2226 on: May 04, 2015, 01:25:09 AM »

WOW MileHigh admits to Ballsing this whole thing up entirely!!!! GOON SQUAD Admits to failure!!!


Hahahaha - Very Funny!!!

I have already given a ton more information on the POSSIBLE meanings to the POSSIBLE Circuits and terribly presented questions you have asked!!! All went un-noticed/dis-regarded, except for a "Keep going" from MileHigh, all after the actual question MileHigh asked was answered in its entirety and correctly by Myself.

Still, I sit here posting this post and think to myself, terrible Karma......

While this Circuit still is incomplete, badly presented and the King of Assumptions is still making Assumptions about this circuit and his expectations of what is being asked, I will provide some more information as to the Circuit Characteristics:

Loop A (Which is now not defined in the recent Diagrams) has and Inductance value of 2H, this then has a Time Constant: 2 seconds, which now gives a Resistance Value of 1 Ohm, but now we have a Current of only 0.159 Amps? Oh no!!! What happened to our previously stated 1amp? We don't have the same circuit again and something is yet again different from before!!!
Wrong, but at least you tried to calculate something.  The 2H inductor loop through the MOSFET does not have a 2 second time constant.  The time constant is trivially determined to be many times larger.  At 2.0s, the inductor current is at least 996mA and will typically be at least 997mA.   It is evident that after having a couple of days to work on it, you do not know understand how the circuit operates.
Quote


Look, because this is such a shambles, MileHigh totally screwed this up from the start, now we have MarkE missing a ton of MileHigh's Information, lost definitions of prior stated Components, chop and changing things every few minutes, and really undecided on the entire set of variables.... I have to agree with Forest!!!

Learn What Exactly? Learn how NOT to present Circuit and Questions about it in a Public Forum!!! I tell you, Trolls Everywhere!!! Trollified Science!!!

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2227 on: May 04, 2015, 01:31:42 AM »
....

It is evident that after having a couple of days...


MarkE - What is evident to all, is, that you GOONs don't know what the hell you're doing, or how to ask a question about the Characteristics of an operating Circuit, with any diligence or Seriousness.

If you had something correct at the start, you may have had a little more interest in your blatant obscurity's....

Time, now, to suck up your mess and move on!

P.S: Three ? does not constitute anything of value to anyone! Try harder next time!!!

Offline MarkE

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2228 on: May 04, 2015, 01:36:09 AM »
What is really sad is that you claim to be showing people advances in electromagnetics but totally screwed up calculating current build-up in an inductor in a nearly ideal circuit.  Would you like to try to calculate the circuit time constant and the current at 2s again?  As it is you're off on the inductor current by more than 6:1 and the circuit time constant by more than 60:1.

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2229 on: May 04, 2015, 01:41:20 AM »
What is really sad is that you claim to be showing people advances in electromagnetics but totally screwed up calculating current build-up in an inductor in a nearly ideal circuit.  Would you like to try to calculate the circuit time constant and the current at 2s again?  As it is you're only off on the inductor current by more than 6:1.

Oh, young Skywalker, I have not changed my Circuits many hundreds of times!!! Do I know how to show you up to be a Fool MarkE, yes, all I need to do is sit back and wait, its called Karma, you and the other GOONS will do enough to prove to everyone here that you don't know what the hell you're doing!! See, right now, I am not the one with my Foot in my Mouth Again!!!

Offline MarkE

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2230 on: May 04, 2015, 01:43:17 AM »
Oh, young Skywalker, I have not changed my Circuits many hundreds of times!!! Do I know how to show you up to be a Fool MarkE, yes, all I need to do is sit back and wait, its called Karma, you and the other GOONS will do enough to prove to everyone here that you don't know what the hell you're doing!! See, right now, I am not the one with my Foot in my Mouth Again!!!
Unless you care to revise your assertions:  That the circuit time constant is 2s and the current at 2s is about 0.159A it is you who demonstrate that you do not know how to calculate current build-up in a very simple, nearly ideal circuit.

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2231 on: May 04, 2015, 01:50:51 AM »
Unless you care to revise your assertions:  That the circuit time constant is 2s and the current at 2s is about 0.159A it is you who demonstrate that you do not know how to calculate current build-up in a very simple, nearly ideal circuit.


Hahahaha - Because - (? ? ?) - Constitutes what Exactly!!!! Keep failing MarkE....

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2232 on: May 04, 2015, 01:53:02 AM »
Chris:

In the first simplified circuit I proposed with no "power source" - the presentation was 100% clean.  I intentionally did not provide any details at all about the specifics.  I wanted to leave that up to you and Enjoykin.  Would there be coil resistance, would there be parasitic capacitance, etc?  Those were choices I was leaving up to you and Enjoykin as part of an intelligent response.  I was expecting that that is how you guys would start to approach the problem to formulate an answer.

I now of course realize that just those issues were way over both of your heads.  Then all of those issues were taken care of for you.  Then how to even formulate an answer was way over your head.  So how to formulate an answer was taken care of for you.

And at that point you and Enjoykin still had nothing to say.  At least some other people are trying out their ideas.

I have no problem admitting when I have made a mistake.

MileHigh

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2233 on: May 04, 2015, 01:57:51 AM »

I have no problem admitting when I have made a mistake.

MileHigh


Good to know MileHigh: MarkE cant, this is obvious! This is another MarkE Fail!!!

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2234 on: May 04, 2015, 02:00:41 AM »
This is the basis for the discussion.

What happens starting at two seconds?