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Author Topic: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy  (Read 2072093 times)

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7890 on: March 03, 2017, 07:04:17 AM »
Well As it seems that we have yet another person moderated(on his own thread),i will post a link to his video here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2PV6N75mrk


Brad

I like that experiment starting at 5:50 in the vid. Have you done that one yet?  After listening to his 3 latest vids, I see a different personality than what I pictured from just reading the forum.

Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7890 on: March 03, 2017, 07:04:17 AM »

Offline tinman

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7891 on: March 03, 2017, 10:16:12 AM »
   

Mags

Quote
I like that experiment starting at 5:50 in the vid. Have you done that one yet?

Not yet Mag;s,but will be doing so this weekend.
How about you?-going to give it a try?
Seems like a simple current loop circuit to me,but lets have a look anyway.

Quote
After listening to his 3 latest vids, I see a different personality than what I pictured from just reading the forum.

I was thinking the very same thing.


Brad

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7892 on: March 03, 2017, 10:44:19 AM »
Not yet Mag;s,but will be doing so this weekend.
How about you?-going to give it a try?
Seems like a simple current loop circuit to me,but lets have a look anyway.

I was thinking the very same thing.


Brad

Yeah, but the current loop is odd. From the looks of the windings they are pretty low ohms. 2+ amps in and 2+ amps on the larger winding(reverse current of input) and 5+ amps on the smaller winding. How can we take advantage of that? I wonder if it is any different than without the resistor csr?

Without a definite full understanding yet, I can imagine a complex thing happening, at a certain freq with the coils set ip that way.  Lol. wonder what a sim would show.

Mags


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7892 on: March 03, 2017, 10:44:19 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7893 on: March 04, 2017, 02:15:58 PM »
Yeah, but the current loop is odd. From the looks of the windings they are pretty low ohms. 2+ amps in and 2+ amps on the larger winding(reverse current of input) and 5+ amps on the smaller winding. How can we take advantage of that? I wonder if it is any different than without the resistor csr?

Without a definite full understanding yet, I can imagine a complex thing happening, at a certain freq with the coils set ip that way.  Lol. wonder what a sim would show.

Mags

I guess were talking about the same thing here?--see image below.

But what comes out,in the way of current?
5.1 - 2.3 = 2.8
Seems it would be the same as what went in.
We would also see some sort of voltage drop,due to winding resistance.

And what are these coils wound on?
If they are wound on a straight core,then the winding direction would have to be different to that if we used a toroid core.

Chris promotes this OU design quite alot,but as of yet,has shown nothing in the way of an OU device.
If he knows what he is talking about,why has he not yet been able to produce his claimed OU device?.


Brad

P.S-and now i will actually post the diagram.

Offline tinman

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7894 on: March 05, 2017, 04:13:25 AM »
OK,well some truth's starting to come out.

Below is my first video test of the !also! below schematic.

The results are not as depicted in the schematic.

First up,the current flows through each coil in phase-not 180* out of phase,as depicted in the schematic.
Second,the current through the coil with the least amount of turns,is never more than the input current-it is always less.
The two combined current values are less than the total input current,as we are also driving the circuit.

I have also tried an !off the shelf! transformer,using the two secondary output's-->results were the very same.

I have also attached an amended schematic,with the results and values re-arranged to suit the results i got from my test's.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx91NRxRS4c


Brad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7894 on: March 05, 2017, 04:13:25 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7895 on: March 05, 2017, 07:12:19 AM »
Hey brad

 I m sorry to say that your test is inconclusive as it is not following some important details expressed in the vid. Maybe you didnt see the whole vid.

First off the windings need to be 3 to 1 as suggested at 12:55 and beyond in the vid. As shown in pic below. In the 3D representation in the vid of the bucking coils, notice the purple windling on the left, which represents what that winding is suppose to look like compared to the right.

Secondly you do not have a capacitor in the circuit to acquire resonance.

And lastly, Im looking at using some decent watt automotive bulbs. In my experience the tiny ones change resistance too much and cause freq drift in circuits like these and offsets in the coil/ cap relationships. Used both kinds in my solid state orbo vids.

Working at the moment. Gunna try some of this tomorrow.

Mags

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7896 on: March 05, 2017, 08:54:27 AM »
Sorry. Meant green windings in the 3D as shown further up this page by Chris.

That doesnt mean that it is not another winding on top of the bucking windings in an expanded version, but in this simpler test I believe that is what he is recommending.

Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7896 on: March 05, 2017, 08:54:27 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7897 on: March 05, 2017, 09:14:13 AM »
Did a little sim earlier.  It seems no matter which way I configure the transformer and its leads to each winding, they both always are having currents in the opposite direction. This indicates that one winding is always overpowering the other inductively. So some further things to think on would be is the resonance we are looking for happening between the cap and the smaller winding or the larger winding, or, with the windings combined inductivity.

I dont use sim to solidify findings, but I like to get the feel of a circuit to see what might be going on.

Mags

Offline tinman

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7898 on: March 05, 2017, 09:46:10 AM »
Hey brad

 I m sorry to say that your test is inconclusive as it is not following some important details expressed in the vid. Maybe you didnt see the whole vid.

 As shown in pic below. In the 3D representation in the vid of the bucking coils, notice the purple windling on the left, which represents what that winding is suppose to look like compared to the right.



And lastly, Im looking at using some decent watt automotive bulbs. In my experience the tiny ones change resistance too much and cause freq drift in circuits like these and offsets in the coil/ cap relationships. Used both kinds in my solid state orbo vids.

Working at the moment. Gunna try some of this tomorrow.

Mags

Quote
First off the windings need to be 3 to 1 as suggested at 12:55 and beyond in the vid.

I think you will find that the winding ratio is not that important to see the desired effect,as long as there is a marginal difference between the two.

Quote
Secondly you do not have a capacitor in the circuit to acquire resonance.

What point is there to having a capacitor where depicted in the diagram?,as the voltage value and polarity across that capacitor  will be determined by the AC input.
To be of any use,there would have to be a resistor in series-as drawn in on the diagram.

Also-which coil are you trying to bring into resonance?.
Each coil has a different amount of turns,and there for a different inductance value-and so,both have a different resonant frequency-regardless of the turn ratios being divisible--as can be seen by your last post-->no matter what way i hook the two coils together,the current always flows in opposite directions.
This is because one winding has a lower inductance value,and so a lower resistive value.

Dose L1 or L2's current ever exceed that of the input current?.


Brad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7898 on: March 05, 2017, 09:46:10 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7899 on: March 05, 2017, 09:56:40 AM »
Did a quick test on sim for something I was thinking about.

I made a transformer with 4h one side and 12h on the other.

With a 50nf cap I pulsed the thing and let go to see ringing and what freq it rings at as measured in the scope. No guessing. Find the exact freq this way.

With just the 4h winding the ring was at 355.87hz. Seems reasonable
With just the 12h winding it was 118.6hz
With both connected 5.3khz and reverse connection of one winding 10.5khz. 

And that is with a fairly small cap and 4h with 12h of windings.  Now we look at the experiment in the vid with the blue windings on the toroid, we are probably looking at 'way' higher freq going on there. I cant even imagine those windings going into the mh each let alone combined either way.  Im thinking Mhz range at least.

Mags


Offline tinman

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7900 on: March 05, 2017, 09:56:58 AM »
 author=Magluvin link=topic=15395.msg501271#msg501271 date=1488694339]
Quote
Hey brad

 I m sorry to say that your test is inconclusive as it is not following some important details expressed in the vid. Maybe you didnt see the whole vid.

First off the windings need to be 3 to 1 as suggested at 12:55 and beyond in the vid.


Mags


Mags

You say the 3:1 ratio is needed.

Below is the pic you supplied of the toroid transformer.
I count 18 turns total on that toroid--so how do we get a 3:1 ratio from 18 turns?.

Brad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7900 on: March 05, 2017, 09:56:58 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7901 on: March 05, 2017, 10:09:42 AM »
author=Magluvin link=topic=15395.msg501271#msg501271 date=1488694339]

Mags

You say the 3:1 ratio is needed.

Below is the pic you supplied of the toroid transformer.
I count 18 turns total on that toroid--so how do we get a 3:1 ratio from 18 turns?.

Brad

Its hard to get a good look at the thing to be exact, where the leads go in for sure and half turns to be counted.

It shows 73khz on the scope.

Did a quick sim to see some things with resonance in this situation.  Used a 50nf cap and a tansformer with 4h on one side and 12h on the other.

Just pulsing to see exactly what freq it rings at...

With just 4h winding 355.87hz  With 12h winding 118.6hz. Reasonable
With both connected one way 5.3khz and flipping the leads on one winding gave 10.5khz

Im kinda amazed his freq is below 1mhz with the blue winding toroid, but we dont know the value of the caps there. Not sure but I cant imagine even the larger winding being in the mh let alone when combined.

Not sure on anything Brad.  Some things will be a guess. But we should try to follow what we see as closely as possible.

Mags


Offline tinman

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7902 on: March 05, 2017, 12:05:49 PM »
Its hard to get a good look at the thing to be exact, where the leads go in for sure and half turns to be counted.

It shows 73khz on the scope.

Did a quick sim to see some things with resonance in this situation.  Used a 50nf cap and a tansformer with 4h on one side and 12h on the other.

Just pulsing to see exactly what freq it rings at...

With just 4h winding 355.87hz  With 12h winding 118.6hz. Reasonable
With both connected one way 5.3khz and flipping the leads on one winding gave 10.5khz

Im kinda amazed his freq is below 1mhz with the blue winding toroid, but we dont know the value of the caps there. Not sure but I cant imagine even the larger winding being in the mh let alone when combined.

Not sure on anything Brad.  Some things will be a guess. But we should try to follow what we see as closely as possible.

Mags

Well i redid the test.
Wound a new transformer with exactly 3:1 winding ratio.

Simply cannot achieve a resonant frequency with the two different coils in play. I can achieve resonance with each individual coil-but not both together.

There is also still no phase shift of 180*-both coils current is in phase.

As can be seen in the video,the cap is just using power,and not helping at all.

Enough time spent on this one for me.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x--KQf9TqB4


Brad

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7903 on: March 05, 2017, 12:55:13 PM »
Hey Brad

What are you driving it with? What is the max freq you can get for input as you have it set up?  The freq of the windings individual, one higher and one lower are not in the vicinity of when the coils are combined. That freq can be 15 to 45 times those freq respectively. So you may not be hitting that freq. Dunno. I only know that you said 4.62k freq, I didnt here what the individual coils were ringing at with the cap. If thats an audio amp it may not pass the freq you need to make that thing ring when combined. Most are max 50khz but more than likely somewhere around 20khz. Like in the scope shot on Chris's vid, it had shown 57khz or so and your windings are similar with possibly less capacitance, so you may need to go higher.  And one more thing, try without the light bulbs. Those will kill resonance drastically by the added resistance and even more, the voltage drops is just killin it.  What value are the resistors? Even 1ohm may be too much, unless we are counting the losses there also.

And another thing thats possible is the second winding may need to be reversed and tested. Makes a big difference in the way the 2 winding work together.

I dunno. This thing has me goin.  So far, no matter what I do on sim, the 2 windings are flowing current in the opposite direction and I see no way of getting them to do otherwise in this config, one winding reverse connections or not. If we connect it one way the windings will oppose and the other they will not. Like this, if the windings are in parallel and oppose each other magnetically, there would be a drastic change if we reverse one winding. So its is good to always try the other way, just in case the drawing is incorrect in specifying, or mistakes.   My conclusion so far is that when the windings are connected in parallel, one way or the other, one of the windings magnetically overcomes the other winding and forces the current in the other winding in opposition to the input, thus enough emf opposite of the input and that current joined in to the first coil supplementing the the input, thus more current into the first coil that should be coming from the input. Still wrapping my head around some things here.


And it is the lower count winding that is influencing the higher count winding to do so, as it is a step up conversion of induced current in the second winding that is above the pressure of the input.  I find that kinda cool, to say the least.  Like we would never run across that situation anywhere in typical tech. So it has an odd property that I think needs a further look. Mix that with resonance, there may be something.

Mags

Offline tinman

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7904 on: March 06, 2017, 12:13:53 AM »
Hey Brad

What are you driving it with? What is the max freq you can get for input as you have it set up?  The freq of the windings individual, one higher and one lower are not in the vicinity of when the coils are combined. That freq can be 15 to 45 times those freq respectively. So you may not be hitting that freq. Dunno. I only know that you said 4.62k freq, I didnt here what the individual coils were ringing at with the cap. If thats an audio amp it may not pass the freq you need to make that thing ring when combined. Most are max 50khz but more than likely somewhere around 20khz. Like in the scope shot on Chris's vid, it had shown 57khz or so and your windings are similar with possibly less capacitance, so you may need to go higher.  And one more thing, try without the light bulbs. Those will kill resonance drastically by the added resistance and even more, the voltage drops is just killin it.  What value are the resistors? Even 1ohm may be too much, unless we are counting the losses there also.

And another thing thats possible is the second winding may need to be reversed and tested. Makes a big difference in the way the 2 winding work together.

I dunno. This thing has me goin.  So far, no matter what I do on sim, the 2 windings are flowing current in the opposite direction and I see no way of getting them to do otherwise in this config, one winding reverse connections or not. If we connect it one way the windings will oppose and the other they will not. Like this, if the windings are in parallel and oppose each other magnetically, there would be a drastic change if we reverse one winding. So its is good to always try the other way, just in case the drawing is incorrect in specifying, or mistakes.   My conclusion so far is that when the windings are connected in parallel, one way or the other, one of the windings magnetically overcomes the other winding and forces the current in the other winding in opposition to the input, thus enough emf opposite of the input and that current joined in to the first coil supplementing the the input, thus more current into the first coil that should be coming from the input. Still wrapping my head around some things here.


And it is the lower count winding that is influencing the higher count winding to do so, as it is a step up conversion of induced current in the second winding that is above the pressure of the input.  I find that kinda cool, to say the least.  Like we would never run across that situation anywhere in typical tech. So it has an odd property that I think needs a further look. Mix that with resonance, there may be something.

Mags

Mags

I have tried reversing the coils polarity,and see no difference at all with this new transformer.

There is also the fact that you seem to have current flowing in opposite directions through the two coils-no matter what,and i have the current flowing in the same direction through the two coils-no matter what.

I have tried 3 different transformer types now,and not one shows current flowing through the coils in opposite directions. Nor do i ever see the current through L1 -or L2 being higher than the supply current.

Even if we could achieve that,that is nothing new,as the simple SSG pulse motor can achieve a higher current flow through the output loop,than the current flowing into the motor.,
So i see nothing special about this design,as we have achieved the same results with pulse motors we have built in the past.

Increasing the current through the transformer loop,will only increase waste heat-nothing more-unless you have a thought towards what you may be able to do with this increased current flow?.


Brad

 

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