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### Author Topic: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy  (Read 2781347 times)

#### gyulasun

• Hero Member
• Posts: 4078
##### Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7335 on: October 11, 2016, 07:53:07 PM »
....

Direct the load to the battery: 3.70V --- 0.58mA  ---> 0.2146 Watt
Through the circuit:                4.90V --- 93.2mA  ---> 4.5668 Watt

That's 2028% difference..

The loal direct to battery is very very dimmed..
Through the circuit is so bright that you can't see it directly.. near to burn I guess.

Hi,

Unfortunately, both calculations are wrong, if you do the math correctly, you get 0.002146 Watt i.e 2.146 mW the LED load consumes directly from the battery,
and when you see the 93.2 mA current, then the power is 4.9 V * 0.0932 A = 0.45668 Watt, ok? Now the further question is where did you get the 4.9 V?
Across the LED load when it was brightly lit in the circuit? Even so, you cannot compare the two, see below why?

...
I'd like to know why are you using the LED in measuring the input on the input side. It is not clear right now.
Why the LED is not bright when you measure the input current?
...

When he connects the LED directly across the battery, his LED is not bright because his battery voltage is lower than the LEDs forward voltage.

So it is not the input current to the circuit but only to the LEDs, (the circuit is not involved), ok?

If the goal is to get circuit efficiency, either with the LEDs or a DC motor as the load, then the input current to the circuit should be measured
while the load is running.  There is no sense to run the load directly from the battery and check the input current and voltage to it and then run the same load
from the circuit and check the output current and voltage.
The two power levels has no any connection: the 2.1 mW to LEDs directly has nothing to do with the 0.47 W LED power received from the circuit.

Gyula

#### EMJunkie

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3320
##### Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7336 on: October 11, 2016, 11:40:01 PM »
Not yet and I am away from my workplace to do it now.. Tomorrow I ll do that, and other tests..

I will stick to the dc motor and forget about the leds.. there is something strange going on with this LED pcb. Maybe its the bridge rectifier on pcb .. I really don't have an idea.

I have to test the battery discharge times for both cases.

and to check if I can recharge a second battery or the same battery in closed loop.

After all that .. I will move to more advanced coils setups. I guess the voltage/current will be more if you add copper turns to secondaries. We ll see

Hi l0stf0x - Thanks for reportng your great work!

Sometime back, we did a Battery charge test using the same circuit. This was another of Wistiti's works, orriginally from SkyWatcher I think?

Using standard Battery formula's and proceedures, we did get some good results!

So, This is worth investigating!!! See below Image.

Gyula, please correct me if my calculations are wrong! We did do several experiments and got slightly different results at different stages of these works.

Chris Sykes
hyiq.org

P.S: Digital Multimeters are very unreliable at High Frequency and should not be trusted %100, but all in all, good work!!!

« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 05:21:28 AM by EMJunkie »

#### gyulasun

• Hero Member
• Posts: 4078
##### Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7337 on: October 12, 2016, 12:41:31 AM »

....
Gyula, please correct me if my calculations are wrong! We did do several experiments and got slightly different results at different stages of these works.
....
P.S: Digital Multimeters are very unreliable at High Frequency and should not be trusted %100, but all in all, good work!!!

Hi Chris,

No offense intended but I am not here to check whether someone can correctly multiply some numbers.
I did an exception for member l0stf0x because he seems to be new here. He obviously made a wrong comparison between
his input and output measurements. This was my point in writing to him at all. His errors in multiplying the numbers was a secondary issue.

I hope you understand.

Gyula

#### EMJunkie

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3320
##### Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7338 on: October 12, 2016, 12:58:07 AM »
Hi Chris,

No offense intended but I am not here to check whether someone can correctly multiply some numbers.
I did an exception for member l0stf0x because he seems to be new here. He obviously made a wrong comparison between
his input and output measurements. This was my point in writing to him at all. His errors in multiplying the numbers was a secondary issue.

I hope you understand.

Gyula

Of course, Understand.

It is very much easier to make incorrect measurements than correct ones, but this is no reason to suspect or expect that there is not anything important to ones work!

Chris Sykes
hyiq.org

#### l0stf0x

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 76
##### Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7339 on: October 12, 2016, 07:10:30 AM »
Thanks Gyula.. Yes you are absolutely right with calculations, Its mA.. Sorry about that

Also you are right about the wrong way of measuring.. I should measure input output voltage and current with circuit in play.
Its due to these leds.. They trick me and confuse me.
Sorry guys

Anyway I will continue through the day and post with proper measurements.. if possible.. because as EMJunkie said, you can't trust digital meters in high freq.

Hi,

Unfortunately, both calculations are wrong, if you do the math correctly, you get 0.002146 Watt i.e 2.146 mW the LED load consumes directly from the battery,
and when you see the 93.2 mA current, then the power is 4.9 V * 0.0932 A = 0.45668 Watt, ok? Now the further question is where did you get the 4.9 V?
Across the LED load when it was brightly lit in the circuit? Even so, you cannot compare the two, see below why?

When he connects the LED directly across the battery, his LED is not bright because his battery voltage is lower than the LEDs forward voltage.

So it is not the input current to the circuit but only to the LEDs, (the circuit is not involved), ok?

If the goal is to get circuit efficiency, either with the LEDs or a DC motor as the load, then the input current to the circuit should be measured
while the load is running.  There is no sense to run the load directly from the battery and check the input current and voltage to it and then run the same load
from the circuit and check the output current and voltage.
The two power levels has no any connection: the 2.1 mW to LEDs directly has nothing to do with the 0.47 W LED power received from the circuit.

Gyula

#### l0stf0x

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 76
##### Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7340 on: October 12, 2016, 07:26:11 AM »

Thanks alot for the information EMJunkie, I had no idea ...you saved me time..

Actually is not my work. I just replicate Wistiti's work.

Even I haven't succeed with proper measurements this setup is very promising.

I will try some different coil setups today. I hate winding coils

Hi l0stf0x - Thanks for reportng your great work!

Sometime back, we did a Battery charge test using the same circuit. This was another of Wistiti's works, orriginally from SkyWatcher I think?

Using standard Battery formula's and proceedures, we did get some good results!

So, This is worth investigating!!! See below Image.

Gyula, please correct me if my calculations are wrong! We did do several experiments and got slightly different results at different stages of these works.

Chris Sykes
hyiq.org

P.S: Digital Multimeters are very unreliable at High Frequency and should not be trusted %100, but all in all, good work!!!

#### EMJunkie

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3320
##### Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7341 on: October 12, 2016, 07:57:54 AM »
Thanks alot for the information EMJunkie, I had no idea ...you saved me time..

Actually is not my work. I just replicate Wistiti's work.

Even I haven't succeed with proper measurements this setup is very promising.

I will try some different coil setups today. I hate winding coils

Hi l0stf0x,

I think a Battery Charge Test is a fairly good way to test your current setup before you tear it down!

No need to rewind coils, do more testing with what you have already!

Plug in the Figure into the above equations and this should help you out.

Chris Sykes
hyiq.org

P.S: There are considerable losses to Charge a Battery, this can be researched if you require.

#### l0stf0x

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 76
##### Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7342 on: October 12, 2016, 08:08:52 AM »
Yeah I ll do more testings before check other coil setups.. Thanks for the advice EMJunkie

Hi l0stf0x,

I think a Battery Charge Test is a fairly good way to test your current setup before you tear it down!

No need to rewind coils, do more testing with what you have already!

Plug in the Figure into the above equations and this should help you out.

Chris Sykes
hyiq.org

P.S: There are considerable losses to Charge a Battery, this can be researched if you require.

#### wistiti

• Full Member
• Posts: 187
##### Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7343 on: October 12, 2016, 02:31:09 PM »
It is Nice to see someone else build and play with this circuit!
Good job!

#### wistiti

• Full Member
• Posts: 187
##### Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7344 on: October 12, 2016, 07:55:11 PM »
Thanks alot for the information EMJunkie, I had no idea ...you saved me time..

Actually is not my work. I just replicate Wistiti's work.

Even I haven't succeed with proper measurements this setup is very promising.

I will try some different coil setups today. I hate winding coils

May i suggest you for your next build to wind your coil on a hollow core... This way you can slide the ferrite inside for fine tuning.

By the way the credit for this circuit goes to Skywatcher http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/19931-bucking-coil-inverter.html

#### EMJunkie

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3320
##### Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7345 on: October 13, 2016, 01:50:18 AM »

For the people that wish to experiment, I have build a small calculator, its a dot net app.

This does the same as calculating this out long hand:

Chris Sykes
hyiq.org

« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 08:47:29 AM by EMJunkie »

#### EMJunkie

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3320
##### Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7346 on: October 13, 2016, 02:07:46 AM »

I should point out, the Battery Charge Test Calculator is meant to be used as a Guide and is not guaranteed to be completely accurate.

Completely accurate measurements will require expensive equipment.

However, this calculator uses Industry standard equations used by professionals around the world!

Some good reading: How to calculate battery run-time

Chris Sykes
hyiq.org

#### l0stf0x

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 76
##### Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7347 on: October 15, 2016, 06:27:44 PM »

May i suggest you for your next build to wind your coil on a hollow core... This way you can slide the ferrite inside for fine tuning.

By the way the credit for this circuit goes to Skywatcher http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/19931-bucking-coil-inverter.html

Yes thanks for the idea!

Actually I have done several setups all these days... The last setup i testing right now is this in photo..2 batteries... it light a resistive bulb 220v (Watt unknown I think its ~20Watt). I added 2 double bucking coils on the same ferite and tuned too.. Unfortunately I don't have a single working multimeter.. All are burned I order new ones and waiting

#### wistiti

• Full Member
• Posts: 187
##### Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7348 on: October 15, 2016, 10:01:52 PM »
Nice!
Do you still running the primary with a kindof joulethief circuit?

#### l0stf0x

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 76
##### Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7349 on: October 16, 2016, 12:30:53 AM »
Nice!
Do you still running the primary with a kindof joulethief circuit?

Yes! exactly the same circuit..

The two bic coils in photos are actualy 4 coils, 2 backing coils. They have many turns so the voltage is high.. I got sparks and I got electoshocked a few times

I got two outputs now.. the old one and the new one from the combine of the new 2 pairs of bucking coils.. the new output is much stronger.. I can use both outputs the same time but they share the magnetic juice so they are dimmer when connected both. (old output connected to 220v led bulb (small one).

The new pairs of coils are side by side (1cm spaced due to extending plastic ).. and both above the side which is without the bifilar primary.
By moving them along the ferite change frequency and output too.. So tuning is wanted.

I wiil post the circuit (new connections) tomorrow