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Author Topic: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy  (Read 2397576 times)

Offline tinman

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3675 on: June 21, 2015, 04:59:28 AM »
Tinman, the power that matters is the power that is drawn from the power supply and the power that is applied to the load.  Do you have measurements of: voltage and current from the battery with and without the lamp connected, in addition to the voltage across and the current into the lamp?

All this i showed clearly in the clip,so i am not sure what you guys are not seeing here?.
I also went through the whole setup before i even started the motor,showing where the scope probes were connected,and which amp meter was showing current to each part of the circuit.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3675 on: June 21, 2015, 04:59:28 AM »

Offline picowatt

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3676 on: June 21, 2015, 05:05:20 AM »
PW
Your post says .222 amps,not 2.222 amps lol.
That is what had me confused.

That's because that is what i thought I saw.  As I said, cleaned the glasses and had another go at the video.  All is good.

Does connecting one side of the motor/gen windings thru the scope grounds as you do have any effect on your amperage readings? (i.e., are your current measurements essentially the same with or without the scope grounds connected?)

Also, did you have a bat charger connected to the battery during the test?  If so, do your amperage measurements remain essentially the same when you disconnect the charger AND the scope grounds?

Have you swapped your amp meters to confirm similar measurements either way?

PW

Offline tinman

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3677 on: June 21, 2015, 05:23:53 AM »
That's because that is what i thought I saw.  As I said, cleaned the glasses and had another go at the video.  All is good.


PW

Quote
Quote
Does connecting one side of the motor/gen windings thru the scope grounds as you do have any effect on your amperage readings? (i.e., are your current measurements essentially the same with or without the scope grounds connected?)

The scope has no effect at all on the operation or measurements of the system. The scope is ground isolated.

Quote
Also, did you have a bat charger connected to the battery during the test?  If so, do your amperage measurements remain essentially the same when you disconnect the charger AND the scope grounds?

Yes,the battery is being charged via the UPS.
Yes,current on both input and output remain the same when the UPS is switched off,and unpluged from the mains-->battery will slowly drain down(over hours),and current will also slowly decrease as battery voltage dose.

Quote
Have you swapped your amp meters to confirm similar measurements either way?

Always do-with every device i build.

Will be adding another cap across the globe today to try and get the voltage across the globe more stable-just to eliminate DMM error. But when i use my power supply to get 10.6 volts DC across the globe,the DMM amp meter shows 1.62 amps. So the DMM is reading very close to correct.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3677 on: June 21, 2015, 05:23:53 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3678 on: June 21, 2015, 05:24:53 AM »
Timnan:

A box that says "shorting circuit" is not a valid part of your electrical schematic.  You can put an extra 15% into your efforts to make your presentation clear and comprehensible.  I flat-out refuse to invest 500% more energy on my side into understanding your circuit than I should have to because you are too lazy to present your data properly.  You already see the questions being posed to you to try to fill in the holes.

I will leave you in the excellent hands of Mark and PW.

MileHigh

Offline MarkE

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3679 on: June 21, 2015, 05:29:52 AM »
Below is the schematic you asked for. There are parts left out. They are not electrical as such,but are vital to the operation and performance of the device.The schematic below shows all electrical connections and test measurement points. There are no ground loops or any other type of something going on here,as it operates just the same with the scope disconnected.

Im not going to open another thread,as it will just be a thread without information to the workings of the device-->and what good is that. MH asked to see what i have,and MarkE said that would be fine to place here-->so here it is. As i am using the bucking coil effect(although in a mechanical situation),i see no reason why things just can stay right here on this thread,as i really dont have much more to show-->other than the base model i am willing to share-->the building blocks of which the device is made from. People will just have to use there own brains,and put the missing pieces in place.

I have spent many hours last night looking at all the information available on the mystical lockridge device. And as much as i hate to say it,it looks like that is !almost! exactly what i have built,although i cant find exact plan's as to how the lockridge device is built,but more so what others in other places have been basing there builds around. I think they are missing a vital component though.

Most say that if you stretch or compress a spring ,when you release it,you only get back as much energy as you used to stretch or compress it in the first place. I dont think they take into account the concussive wave created around that spring when released. With magnetic fields you get two things happen which act much the same as that spring. You get electrical forces along with mechanical forces,and both these forces create concussive waves. In this situation(the RT) you use a primary electrical force to create a secondary electrical force,and that very same primary electrical force is also creating a mechanical force at the same time. The secondary electrical force also add to the mechanical force,and the mechanical force generates/adds to the secondary electrical force-->this is the concussive force.
Thanks for posting that diagram.  Depending on what is in the circuitry that you would like to keep private (and I am not asking to see it) there is the possibility of a ground loop if you connect both scope probe commons to the places shown at the same time.  What I suggest that you do for your own peace of mind is:

Use one meter to measure current, and the other to measure DC voltage.  If you want add a capacitor wired close to the motor terminals to suppress ripple.  A 100uF 35V in parallel with a 0.1uF 50V as close to the motor as possible will get rid of most of the motor spikes that might upset the meter reading.  You should find that the voltage is quite stable.  Then move the meters over to the lamp as you have shown.  You've already got the electrolytic capacitor there.  You can add the 0.1uF capacitor to knock down spikes. 

You can look at either the one or the other with one scope channel to see that the voltage is basically steady, but do not connect both scope channels at the same time.  See what your meters tell you with the lamp connected and unconnected.  See if your instruments still tell you that the lamp gets more power than you draw from the power source.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3679 on: June 21, 2015, 05:29:52 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3680 on: June 21, 2015, 05:36:18 AM »
Timnan:

A box that says "shorting circuit" is not a valid part of your electrical schematic.  You can put an extra 15% into your efforts to make your presentation clear and comprehensible.  I flat-out refuse to invest 500% more energy on my side into understanding your circuit than I should have to because you are too lazy to present your data properly.  You already see the questions being posed to you to try to fill in the holes.

I will leave you in the excellent hands of Mark and PW.

MileHigh
I disagree.  Tinman wants to keep that part proprietary and I have no objection.  He has a clearly delineated input, and a clearly delineated output.  What is in-between doesn't matter for any kind of initial determination as to whether he has something that appears to generate energy or not.  He has asked for a fair review on a black box basis and that can be done. 

What needs to be eliminated is any possibility of a sneak current path through the test equipment common.  His waveforms have low enough ripple that he will get pretty good data from DMMs alone.  So test data taken with the scope completely disconnected from the circuit should be reliable.  I have suggested a couple of decoupling improvements that would affect typical accuracy by a couple of percent.  If there is not a problem of EMI fouling his meters, the DMMs should work well.  If the data looks strange, then we can check for EMI issues then.

Offline MarkE

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3681 on: June 21, 2015, 05:39:16 AM »


The scope has no effect at all on the operation or measurements of the system. The scope is ground isolated.

Tinman it is current that could conduct between the input ref and the output ref by way of the scope probe black leads that we also want to make sure is not causing erroneous readings.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3681 on: June 21, 2015, 05:39:16 AM »
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Offline picowatt

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3682 on: June 21, 2015, 06:14:36 AM »
Tinman,

Is the switch S1 drawn in the correct position?

From watching the video, I would have guessed that the switch was on the other side of the diode/cap connection.

PW

Offline tinman

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3683 on: June 21, 2015, 08:04:00 AM »
Tinman,

Is the switch S1 drawn in the correct position?

From watching the video, I would have guessed that the switch was on the other side of the diode/cap connection.

PW
The switch is in the correct position. It was placed there so as i could measure the maximum output voltage within the cap when the load was removed and the switch is switched off to remove any noise voltage from the cap voltage measurement.The voltage peak's at 53 volt's.
The switch is an addition,and needed to be there,as if i switch of the motor before the bulb,the transistor blows for some reason. Im guessing the inductive spike voltage/current from the rotor when the motor is disconnected, is some how getting back to the base of the transistor.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3683 on: June 21, 2015, 08:04:00 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3684 on: June 21, 2015, 08:06:04 AM »


What needs to be eliminated is any possibility of a sneak current path through the test equipment common.  His waveforms have low enough ripple that he will get pretty good data from DMMs alone.  So test data taken with the scope completely disconnected from the circuit should be reliable.  I have suggested a couple of decoupling improvements that would affect typical accuracy by a couple of percent.  If there is not a problem of EMI fouling his meters, the DMMs should work well.  If the data looks strange, then we can check for EMI issues then.

Already onto it Mark,as i knew this was coming.
Video is uploading now,and i will post it as soon as it is done.

Offline tinman

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3685 on: June 21, 2015, 08:27:36 AM »
Timnan:

I will leave you in the excellent hands of Mark and PW.

MileHigh
Quote
A box that says "shorting circuit" is not a valid part of your electrical schematic.

Maybe not,but thats all your getting MH-you need no more than what i have supplied to calculate P/in and P/out. The P/in and P/out are definitive.

Quote
You can put an extra 15% into your efforts to make your presentation clear and comprehensible.


As we are only looking into power in and power dissipated across a load,then all the information you need is right there.

Quote
I flat-out refuse to invest 500% more energy on my side into understanding your circuit than I should have to because you are too lazy to present your data properly.

Im lazy MH ?.
I have posted a schematic that shows where and how the power measurements are taken. The video clearly shows the results of these measurements.
You seem to need spoon feeding MH before you can see what is in front of you.

Quote
You already see the questions being posed to you to try to fill in the holes.

Here is that question MH.
Quote MarkE: Could you do me a favor and post a hand sketch that shows the measurement connections, and the external circuit (no secrets exposed) with the lamp connected and disconnected?  I don't want you to reveal any details of the motor or the control circuit.  Thanks.

This is exactly what i have done MH,so what hole's do i have to fill?.

What you are doing is digging for a complete circuit,and exact workings of the device-->not going to happen.
Who know's,maybe the magnets are going flat ::)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3685 on: June 21, 2015, 08:27:36 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3686 on: June 21, 2015, 09:14:43 AM »
Tinman:

I didn't know that I had to take notes when watching your clip.  You point to various individual measurements but you make no attempt to pull everything together into a coordinated presentation.  I suppose if I watched your clip two, three, or four times then I would be able to connect all the dots and do all the math and see what is going on.  I don't have that level of patience.  My criticism of your presentation is 100% valid and it does force your audience to incur an extra workload and compounds the frustration of people that are willing to work with you to try to figure out what is going on.  You are lucky that you are working with people that have so much patience and have so much deep knowledge in electronics.

I am not worried about your "technology."  I can just look at what you are doing and know what the ultimate outcome of this exercise is going to be.  Some oversight or mistake will be found and the whole thing will go into the file for another misfire.

Here is the real deal and this is a level of insight that you either can't see or refuse to see:  Thee is no possible combination of motors, coils, resistors, capacitors, transformers, funky strange transformers, transistors, MOSFETs and diodes that can give you more energy out than in - period.

I have taken the Spice and I have blue eyes and I can navigate through the circuit just like that.  I ran Spice with big stacks of punched computer cards held together with elastic bands.  What I am saying is the real deal.

Mark and PW will show you the way.

MileHigh

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3687 on: June 21, 2015, 09:22:41 AM »
This is just as valid as an i7 with a fancy GUI.

Offline tinman

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3688 on: June 21, 2015, 10:02:15 AM »
Tinman:

    You are lucky that you are working with people that have so much patience and have so much deep knowledge in electronics.


MileHigh

Quote
I didn't know that I had to take notes when watching your clip.  You point to various individual measurements but you make no attempt to pull everything together into a coordinated presentation.

We could argue all day MH,but it's like i said-i went through the whole setup before i started the motor. I clearly stated that the yellow trace on the scope was showing the voltage across the motor,and the DMM that was reading the current flowing into the motor. I also clearly stated that the blue trace on the scope was showing the voltage across the globe,and which DMM was showing the current flowing through the globe.
Post from woopy reply 3668-quote: If i understand correctly , when there is no load, the motor draws about 27.7 watts (13.4 volts x 2.07 A )

 when the bulb is on your motor draws about 10 watts ( 13.4 V x 0.75 A ) and the generator produces about 18 watts (10.4 V x 1.64 A)

Why is woopy able to produce accurate measurements from the video MH,and you cannot?.

Quote
I suppose if I watched your clip two, three, or four times then I would be able to connect all the dots and do all the math and see what is going on.  I don't have that level of patience.  My criticism of your presentation is 100% valid and it does force your audience to incur an extra workload and compounds the frustration of people that are willing to work with you to try to figure out what is going on.

Is it really to much effort on your behalf MH to do two simple multiplications ?
I have seen no frustration from anyone other than your self. You say you dont have that much patience?,well turning on your computer and navigating to this thread would take more work than the two simple sum's you had to do to obtain the P/in P/out figures.

Quote
I am not worried about your "technology."  I can just look at what you are doing and know what the ultimate outcome of this exercise is going to be.  Some oversight or mistake will be found and the whole thing will go into the file for another misfire.

And how can you know this when you cant even do two simple multiplications ?

Quote
Here is the real deal and this is a level of insight that you either can't see or refuse to see:  Thee is no possible combination of motors, coils, resistors, capacitors, transformers, funky strange transformers, transistors, MOSFETs and diodes that can give you more energy out than in - period.

I will rephrase the above so as it is correct.
There is no possible combination of motors, coils, resistors, capacitors, transformers, funky strange transformers, transistors, MOSFETs, diodes(and undefined items) that i know of that can give you more energy out than in.

Quote
I have taken the Spice and I have blue eyes and I can navigate through the circuit just like that.  I ran Spice with big stacks of punched computer cards held together with elastic bands.  What I am saying is the real deal.

What you are saying MH is, to the best of my knowledge,i know of no combination that will produce more power out than what the system is consuming.
You would also be one of those that thinks nothing travels faster than the speed of light,even though there is proof that this is not true. These are the times you slap your self in the face and say-dam,it was there right in front of my eyes all the time-->why didnt i see it?.


Quote
Mark and PW will show you the way.

Will they? :-\
To be up front and honest,i dont think MarkE will stray from what he has been taught to be true,and so he will keep searching until he finds something that will explain what is going on using conventional theory,and this will keep him from working out what is really happening within the device. PW on the other hand i believe is still open minded enough to stand back and work out how it is doing what it is doing. Many here that go by the book also seem to think that the TPU was legit,and functioned as presented. So how is it that they can believe in the TPU's function,but also believe that current theories stand?.

So MH,do you believe that nothing travels faster than the speed of light ?,or do you believe that statement to be rubbish?.

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #3689 on: June 21, 2015, 10:05:06 AM »
Tinman presents his device, rather well done if I may say!!!

Poor Tinman cops the Wrath of the Ignorant!

Tinman is now getting Ostracised because he shows something amazing by the now few, Ignorant!

See why I refuse to give these Fools any Data Tinman!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

P.S: You people should be Utterly Ashamed of yourselves! How childish of you supposed Adults! The Human Race could certainly do without you bunch!!!

 

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