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### Author Topic: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy  (Read 3536153 times)

#### Dave45

• Guest
##### Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2565 on: May 13, 2015, 11:26:20 PM »

Here's a clue just for you MH

Now get off your butt and build something.

#### EMJunkie

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3322
##### Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2566 on: May 14, 2015, 12:26:26 AM »

http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/hoopmnst.htm

A.King21 - This is an excellent experiment. Hooper was without a doubt, way ahead of his time.

Technically this is a good experiment. However, its also confusing. Its also not entirely correct, it is Conventionally Correct, but not correct to the true nature of induction.

For Example: We know that as long as there is a force on the Conductor, and that the force is not uniform in all areas of the conductor, and of course the correct conditions are met, then Charge is Separated. In the Hooper-Monstein Experiment, it does show that there is a lack of cancelation of the force exerted on the wire to Separate Charges!

To explain further, if we take a 1 Meter length of Copper wire (or any Insulated Conductor), this conductor is in a straight line. Now if we take a 0.5 Meter long Permanent Magnet (x 10mm x 20mm), now if we move the Permanent magnet at right angles to the wire over only 0.5 Meter's of the Conductor, we will get an EMF on the terminals.

Now, if we fold the 1 Meter length in half exactly, so the Conductor is now 0.5 Meters in one direction and 0.5 Meters in the opposite direction, with a total length of 0.5 Meters. Now if we move out PM over the conductor, there will be no EMF on the Terminals...

Why?

Because in each Length (0.5 Meters) Charge is separated in the same direction, essentially this is a dead short and Charges can not flow to the Terminals.

So, we now have a problem, the Hooper-Monstein Experiment shows us, that:
1: We currently don't understand the Charge Separation in a Conductor
2: We don't understand the Magnetic Field
3: All of the above.

Thanks for bring this Up A.King21

Chris

#### EMJunkie

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3322
##### Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2567 on: May 14, 2015, 12:52:10 AM »

How would you create a low pressure zone in the atmosphere using coils.
No pulsing straight dc

Dave45 - I disagree with MileHigh!

This is a good question. Why would one NOT ask this question?

A Negative Resistance could constitute a Negative Entropy, which could be considered a Negative pressure under the context of the current topic. I do know how to make a Negative Inductance. it's actually very easy. This guy is a smart cookie: https://4gang.wordpress.com/how-to-build-a-negative-inductance/

Now to a Negative Resistance. First there are two types of Negative Resistance, Differential and True Negative Resistance. Differential Negative Resistance never goes below Zero, always above. Theoretically True Negative Resistance can go below Zero and beyond....

Nearly all the literature is Differential Resistance. So be careful here...

I recommend to study what Resistance is, How is a Conductor susceptible to resistive forces?

E.G: As we are susceptible to Wind Resistance, how is a Conductor Susceptible to Electrical Resistance? Hahaha someone has already given us the answer...

Chris

#### MileHigh

• Hero Member
• Posts: 7600
##### Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2568 on: May 14, 2015, 12:59:19 AM »

Here's a clue just for you MH

Now get off your butt and build something.

Really Dave?  A "magic" transformer that outputs three times the input power?   How does it do that?  Then we have a bunch of wobbling cylinders on a bigger cylinder all stuck together because of magnets.  Wow.  And how does all of this relate to "a low pressure zone in the atmosphere using coils."

Please Dave, you have three disparate things that you have pointed to.  How do they are relate to each other?  Please connect the dots for us and make a logical argument and put everything together and give us you reasoned conclusion.  How do coils make a "low pressure zone," that's a new one to me?

I am really really curious to read how you relate everything together and show us your thoughtful reasoned conclusion.

#### Magluvin

• Hero Member
• Posts: 5884
##### Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2569 on: May 14, 2015, 01:13:17 AM »
But what if the core is a toroid?,where the magnetic field is suppose to remain within the toroid core it self. If two coils are wound on the toroid core,so as one coil is wound on 1/2 of the core,and the second is wound on the other 1/2 of the core,and a small gap left between each end of the winding's. A diametrically magnetised magnet is then spun near the core at the center of one of the coils. One side of the coil see's a north field,and the other side a south field(and no correcting here MH,we are using understood descriptions only). The center of the coil will see the the neutral zone of the field as well. Now what happens when we load both coils?,do we get a bucking field between the two coil end's,and is the BEMF directed back toward the rotating magnet,or dose it remain in the core?. If it dosnt remain within the core,then we have a south,and north field that meet in the middle of the coil winding-->which means a neutral field. So what will be acting against the rotating magnet?.

Yes, there is field outside of the toroid core, but mostly it all happens in the doughnut hole of the core. A pdf called "classical flux analysis" explained it quite well.

Say if we have 50 turns of wire(primary) on one side of the core and 50 turns(secondary) on the other. If we input ac to the primary, and all of the field created by the primary stays in the core, then the secondary would not be induced. The windings have to be 'cut' by the magnetic field in order to induce current into the wire. If all of the primary field stays in the core, then if the secondary has output, how did the secondary get induced if the field of the primary didnt 'cut' the secondary windings? The windings dont have feelers out there to see if there is a field locked in the core in order to produce current.

So the core, unsaturated, doesnt allow field of the winding outside of the outer radius of the core, but in order for the field to become a loop in the core, the magnetic loop around the windings grow with more current and expand outward, across the toroid cores doughnut hole and snaps into the core as a loop. So these expanding fields that grow and snap across the hole of the toroid are able to 'cut' the sec windings and induce sec current.

Same thing in any closed core, ecore, etc.

Mags

#### MileHigh

• Hero Member
• Posts: 7600
##### Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2570 on: May 14, 2015, 01:39:36 AM »
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/hoopmnst.htm

That is just a dumb-ass experiment that is total horse shit by good old JLN Labs for people like him that have their minds tied to their behinds.

He has a BIG FAT flux-catching LOOP of wire.  The last time I looked EMF in the loop of wire is proportional to the net changing flux going though the ENTIRE LOOP.  It looks to me that there will be only a SINGLE POINT IN SPACE that will have a net-zero magnetic field because of the two magnets and at ALL OTHER POINTS IN SPACE there will be some kind of net magnetic field.

I also intuitively know that with two moving magnets and ABSOLUTELY PERFECT SYMMETRY in the whole system that you should get zero net changing flux through the ENTIRE LOOP.

i also intuitively know that it is ESSENTIALLY IMPOSSIBLE to set up an experiment with absolutely perfect symmetry and by looking at the pictures with the little moving carts that this is clearly the case in this experiment.

Quote:

Quote
If you take two identical magnets placed both orthogonaly (at right angle) to a copper wire, and if you move these magnets as shown above,the conventional Lenz law demonstrates that there is no electromagnetic induction in this copper wire, because the magnetic field is canceled.

BUT the experiment shows that THERE IS an electromagnetic induction in this copper wire. This electromagnetic induction with a zero magnetic field is called the motional E-field. This HOOPER-MONSTEIN effect can be easily explained with the Oliver Crane's theory and is also fully used by RQM ( Raum Quanten Motoren AG ) .

There is no "Hooper-Monstein effect" and poor Jean-Louis Naudin falls flat on his face yet again.

Faraday's Law holds true and you have to be crazy to think that there is any possible reason for this to not be true.  A crazy example of failure to think would be to believe in the non-existent "Hooper-Monstein effect."

Quote

Any change in the magnetic environment of a coil of wire will cause a voltage (emf) to be "induced" in the coil. No matter how the change is produced, the voltage will be generated. The change could be produced by changing the magnetic field strength, moving a magnet toward or away from the coil, moving the coil into or out of the magnetic field, rotating the coil relative to the magnet, etc.

You guys need to understand Nature and avoid the stupid junk from snake oil salesmen.

#### MileHigh

• Hero Member
• Posts: 7600
##### Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2571 on: May 14, 2015, 01:48:47 AM »
Do you see the red "X" along the wire?

That is the only point in 3D space that will have a net-zero magnetic field due to the presence of the two magnets.  Everywhere else in 3D space there will be some kind of magnetic field.

The giant LOOP of wire used in the experiment is sensitive to the net changing magnetic flux with respect to time through its cross-sectional area.

#### tinman

• Hero Member
• Posts: 5365
##### Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2572 on: May 14, 2015, 02:58:56 AM »
Well, I strongly suggest that you make a diagram or diagrams, because I can barely make head or tail of what you are talking about.  I suspect that others would be in the same boat as me.  You are back in your thinking bubble and you have to realize that we are not in your bubble.  For example, what the hell does "near" mean?  For me it could mean you are inside the toroid, or perhaps outside the toroid, or even on top of the toroid.   You need to make a diagram that is clear, and then annotate that diagram to show what you are talking about.

This is just like when beginners talk about electronic circuits in pure text.  In the vast majority of cases they are just BSing each other and chances are both parties haven't the foggiest idea what the other guy is saying, and yet they agree with each other.
Sorry MH
Bit hard to draw diagrams when im out on the road 2-3days at a time, so I try to explain my thoughts best I can. And hey-I know exactly what I mean lol.

#### EMJunkie

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3322
##### Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2573 on: May 14, 2015, 03:04:22 AM »

Do you see the red "X" along the wire?

That is the only point in 3D space that will have a net-zero magnetic field due to the presence of the two magnets.  Everywhere else in 3D space there will be some kind of magnetic field.

The giant LOOP of wire used in the experiment is sensitive to the net changing magnetic flux with respect to time through its cross-sectional area.

Only according to Conventional Magnetics MileHigh.

I think anyone would agree that there is a big problem. I have pointed out a huge hole MileHigh, this cant be ignored..

Any and all space that the Magnetic Field is at Velocity, and where the Magnetic Field Cuts the Conductor is subject to the same rules I have pointed out. Conventional perception of the Magnetic Field is incomplete.

Chris

#### Pirate88179

• elite_member
• Hero Member
• Posts: 8366
##### Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2574 on: May 14, 2015, 03:46:29 AM »

Conventional perception of the Magnetic Field is incomplete.

Chris

How is it that you can say this with a straight face when you don't even understand the conventional perception of the magnetic field?

It is exactly like when someone claims that conventional electronics knowledge is wrong, yet, they do not even know the basics of electronics.  These statements would have a lot more credibility if someone who knew and understood the conventional, proven, laws said them.  When it comes from a newbie, then...not so much.

Bill

#### MarkE

• Hero Member
• Posts: 6830
##### Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2575 on: May 14, 2015, 03:58:36 AM »

#### MileHigh

• Hero Member
• Posts: 7600
##### Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2576 on: May 14, 2015, 03:59:04 AM »
There is just no way that anyone can put forth a proposition that states, "I found a way to generate EMF in a loop with zero net changing flux with respect to time going through the loop."  It's just complete and utter nonsense. It's actually an insult to all of us.   JLN has left this legacy of misfires and should be ashamed of himself.

This is where you have to use your knowledge and wits to separate the BS from the real world.  It's just like that new buoyancy pitch.  There is just no way in hell to get free energy from a vertical column of water with inflated balloons generating lift on a chain drive.  Just ask James Kwok or Wayne's brain.

Learn to use your knowledge and wits and gut feel to rout out the BS before we all drown in it.

#### tinman

• Hero Member
• Posts: 5365
##### Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2577 on: May 14, 2015, 06:00:49 AM »
How is it that you can say this with a straight face when you don't even understand the conventional perception of the magnetic field?

It is exactly like when someone claims that conventional electronics knowledge is wrong, yet, they do not even know the basics of electronics.  These statements would have a lot more credibility if someone who knew and understood the conventional, proven, laws said them.  When it comes from a newbie, then...not so much.

Bill
Bill
It's hard to repute or reject others claims about magnetic fields when science it self dosnt even know what a magnetic field is. Once again-we know what it can do, and we know how to use it to make devices work based around it-but we dont know what it is.

I still say it is a field of positive and negative charges. Like charges repell, unlike charges attract. There are those here that say rubbish, even though they have no explanation them self.

#### Pirate88179

• elite_member
• Hero Member
• Posts: 8366
##### Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2578 on: May 14, 2015, 06:18:33 AM »
Bill
It's hard to repute or reject others claims about magnetic fields when science it self dosnt even know what a magnetic field is. Once again-we know what it can do, and we know how to use it to make devices work based around it-but we dont know what it is.

I still say it is a field of positive and negative charges. Like charges repell, unlike charges attract. There are those here that say rubbish, even though they have no explanation them self.

Sure, I agree with what you are saying but, one has to consider when some bloke says "science does not understand magnetics or the magnetic field."
yet, somehow, those guys that don't understand it make things like CRT's, flat screen tv's...etc.  The list of useful manipulations of magnetics is out there working for us every day.  It would be better if we understood 100% of the why, but the how is also important, and most of the folks making those comments don't understand the how at all.

Sorry, I am not making much sense here at the moment it appears, but I do get what you are saying and I am certainly not including you in the group I was referring to in my post.

I am still confounded by something I read here on a topic (I can not recall which) that said if the sun burned out and collapsed into nothing, it would take nine minutes for us here on earth to see the light disappear due to speed of light/distance.  However, they said that the earth would immediately fly out of the influence of the sun's gravity (as would the other planets in the solar system) and this would not take 9 minutes or even 1 second.

So, this either means gravity travels faster than light, or (and I am leaning toward this one) gravity is like a chain with links that are always there.  Remove a link and the influence goes away instantaneously and does not have to allow for time to travel any distance.  Hawking, and others, claim gravity is a particle of mass (graviton) so ...more mass more gravitons.  Fine, (This agrees with Newton) but how are they linked across space like a chain?  Otherwise, gravitons travel waaay faster than light which I do not believe.

Still trying to get my head around this one.

Bill

#### minnie

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1244
##### Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2579 on: May 14, 2015, 12:01:34 PM »
Tinman,
give this a go. "New revolutions in particle physics:Basic concepts."
Lecture one, Leonard  Susskind, Stanford. Youtube.
J.